What the hell happened to solos?

[Slayer 0]

Reading through the list, I couldn't help but notice that almost all of the solos that I recognized (couldn't place all of them) were from the 70's and 80's and at latest early/mid-90's...

 

Now while I still hear great solos from relative underground hardrock and metal bands, this is concerned with the current mainstream face of guitar rock, which either falls into two categories: The new hard rock that I dunno if there's an official genre name for (referring to the likes of Nickelback, Chevelle, Puddle of Mudd, etc.) and nu-metal.

 

So, where have all the solos gone? Are current guitarists lazy and not wanting to learn solos when it's easier to pound out power chords on drop tuned guitars, or do radio stations not wang longer solo-filled songs taking away from precious commercial time, or is it something else?

 

What are your thoughts on the matter

[Black Lushus 0]

Well, I'm not so sure if it's the fact that today's guitarists are lazy or if they just know they don't need to learn how to play solos to make money...i'd blame it on today's generation of music listeners that helped the nu-metal trend grow...

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Blame Nirvana

[Guest El Satanico]

Because the majority in popular music were cheesy and unnecessary?

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Because the majority in popular music were cheesy and unnecessary?

Indeed.

 

I can't remember the last song I loved which had an amazing solo.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

The best solos are generally slower or shorter, because they normally aren't pretentious and every note actually means something in the context of the song. There are exceptions to the rule of course.

[Guest Choken One]

Audioslave does a bunch of Solos but It's more of Morello being "creative" and not Exactly hitting it right...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

He just presses a pedal.

 

Audioslave is currently the band that I hate the most.

[Slayer 0]

Because the majority in popular music were cheesy and unnecessary?

Are you referring to all solos in popular music (which at one time ,and could still be argued, would have included the likes of Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and Clapton) or just popular solos in the last decade or so?

[Guest El Satanico]

Well, I said the majority not all. And by popular I mean mainstream popular.

 

I'm mainly talking about the last 20 years. The 70's were all about guitar rock, so I'm not going to make this argument about it. In the last 20 years, good solos in mainstream popular music have been few and far between.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

I think a lot of people looked back to the music they liked as a kid and realized that solos can sound pretty damn cheesy and unnecessary. If not done correctly, it just sounds like a guitarist going "See? SEE?! " and really hurts the flows of some songs where solos just weren't necessary.

[Red Baron 0]

I think it just has to do with skill ability, and not being just another Page, Van Halen, Rhoades, Clapton, Hammett, etc...

 

I think its hard to find a guitarist who has his own niche, like Hammett finger tappin, Eddie's shreddin, Rhoades using classical music for solo's/rythem, Wylde's Squeals, etc.

 

Not everyone can be a John Petrucci, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Al Di Meola, and what not.

[NoCalMike 0]

I blame record labels. They want everyone to like everything these days. They want rock bands to sound bland enough so that the casual music fan will listen to it. I mean seriously, what is a casual listener more likely to listen to, Metallica from the 80's or Saliva?

 

Music should go back to being made for that specific group of fans, and if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

[spiny norman 0]

I think it's because music is no longer seen as being important for this generation as it has in previous. There is no longer the passion for music now as there was previously with the Beatles, the Dylans, the Hendrixes etc. Music is not as important an artform now. That's why concerts for new acts are down. That's why music is crap. Anyone can become a musician provided they know the right people. C-grade celebrities such as Hillary Duff can release albums. So of course there are no good solos anymore. There is no passion anymore. So anybody who does have the talent to do an All Along The Watchtower-esque solo doesn't have the passion to do so.

[haVoc 0]

Blame Nirvana

I think that is pretty dead on. Once Nirvana and grunge hit big they killed the guitar solo and actual guitar playing. I'm not saying you need to play a guitar solo and roll around the floor like an idiot like CC Deville or some other twit from the 80's glam.

 

Very few guitar players stood out during grunge. They killed off the powerful sounding guitar riff. Solo's were looked at as being to 80's and cheesy. Granted, guitar riffs are finally starting to come around again with bands like White Stripes, Queens of the Stone Age and Audioslave.

 

To me, Rock, Metal, etc., should be guitar oriented and I'm happy to see some of that come back. We have the riffs, now we need some bands to learn how to solo in moderation.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I think it's because music is no longer seen as being important for this generation as it has in previous. There is no longer the passion for music now as there was previously with the Beatles, the Dylans, the Hendrixes etc. Music is not as important an artform now. That's why concerts for new acts are down. That's why music is crap. Anyone can become a musician provided they know the right people. C-grade celebrities such as Hillary Duff can release albums. So of course there are no good solos anymore. There is no passion anymore. So anybody who does have the talent to do an All Along The Watchtower-esque solo doesn't have the passion to do so.

No sir, THIS is dead on.

 

The apathy and lack of effort shown by the music industry now is astounding. Never before have they been in such need of an enema. The Beatles, another Nirvana, SOMETHING, that drastically, and irrevocably, does something different.

 

Kurt Cobain is not to blame for the death of solos. The soloists are. Cheeseball soloing no longer cut the mustard, and it still doesn't. What's needed right now is a real, concrete MOVEMENT of music. Doesn't matter if it's rock or what, just some motion, some energy, something other than stagnating about in the same tired doldrums that keep repeating themselves, and it's going to take more than tapping around on the high strings.

 

Metallica from the 80's or Saliva

 

Now, when talking about blame, there's only one band I blame for the crap that is Nu Metal, and we all know I'm right. (Nirvana would be the second band I'd blame.)

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Grunge killed the guitar solo? Like, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden? Even Pearl Jam and Nirvana did solos. Hell, almost all of those bands did. They just did better ones, without wearing makeup.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

Aside from Black Label Society, there really isn't anything on mainstream rock radio with good solos. Zakk is carrying the flag for the great guitarists of the past on his bearded drunken shoulders. Kudos to him, at least.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

1. Agent, who do you blame? Because if you say "Metallica," which is my prediction, then how did Metallica create nu-metal? Nu-metal is a direct descendant of glam and alternative, neither of which Metallica ever were (Load's a hard rock/bluesy album, NOT alternative). If you're going to place the blame on anybody from the 80's metal scenes, blame Faith No More. Their music had a lot of rapping and funk to it, which lead to Rage Against The Machine, which then lead to Limp Bizkit, and then the little fucktard mallfucks began whining because of Korn.

 

2. Brian, I agree completely with the "bearded drunken shoulders" comment towards Zakk Wylde. Dude needs to lay off the Sam Adams...

[Skywarp! 0]

Tim Mahoney from 311 is an extremely talented soloist, although he takes most of his influence from Santana.

[Guest BAR]

Blame the '80s!

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

1. Agent, who do you blame? Because if you say "Metallica," which is my prediction, then how did Metallica create nu-metal? Nu-metal is a direct descendant of glam and alternative, neither of which Metallica ever were (Load's a hard rock/bluesy album, NOT alternative). If you're going to place the blame on anybody from the 80's metal scenes, blame Faith No More. Their music had a lot of rapping and funk to it, which lead to Rage Against The Machine, which then lead to Limp Bizkit, and then the little fucktard mallfucks began whining because of Korn.

*Picks a fight*

 

Think though, what were these guys (Limp Bizkit, Saliva, Trapt, et al.) listening to? This whole movement is TOTALLY influenced by Metallica. Listen to that newest (I think it's Seether) single. It's a ballad, and starts off frighteningly like Fade to Black. Same guitar effect, same idea. All these bands go for the metal ballads, too, trying similar things. To say that they're not influenced majorly by tracks like "One" or "And Justice For All.." is crazy. It's the context clues though. Similar image, similar song topics. The bassist for Mudvayne plays like he's all about Cliff Burton. Have you ever heard a newer nu-metal band NOT list Metallica as a huge influence? Hell, Korn covers One live, and had said they hold Metallica in high regard as well, and look at all the bands that copied THEM.

 

I'll give you the rap influence with bands like FNM and Rage, but if you listen, that rap element is really starting to fade out quite a bit. Limp Bizkit still does it..that's about all I can think of at the moment. Right now, it's all about angryish riffage, a formulaic meaningful slow song or two, and a hook.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Think though, what were these guys (Limp Bizkit, Saliva, Trapt, et al.) listening to? This whole movement is TOTALLY influenced by Metallica. Listen to that newest (I think it's Seether) single. It's a ballad, and starts off frighteningly like Fade to Black. Same guitar effect, same idea. All these bands go for the metal ballads, too, trying similar things. To say that they're not influenced majorly by tracks like "One" or "And Justice For All.." is crazy. It's the context clues though. Similar image, similar song topics. The bassist for Mudvayne plays like he's all about Cliff Burton. Have you ever heard a newer nu-metal band NOT list Metallica as a huge influence? Hell, Korn covers One live, and had said they hold Metallica in high regard as well, and look at all the bands that copied THEM.

 

I'll give you the rap influence with bands like FNM and Rage, but if you listen, that rap element is really starting to fade out quite a bit. Limp Bizkit still does it..that's about all I can think of at the moment. Right now, it's all about angryish riffage, a formulaic meaningful slow song or two, and a hook.

I'll give you that the newer bands were all influenced by Metallica, but you know what? It's a generation thing. The members of glam acts like Ratt and Poison, whose solo's were generic and non-memorable, and the music itself incredibly awful? They all listed Zeppelin and Sabbath as influences. So it really is an extremely generational thing.

 

As for saying Ryknow (bassist of Mudvayne) plays like he's trying to be Cliff Burton, that's nitpicking, and pretty wrong. Cliff was popular because he made his bass sound like a guitar when doing bass solo's, used his fingers, and headbanged like a motherfucker. Ryknow is popular because he's a really good slap-bass player, has a freakishly large bass (to go along with his 6'4" height, I believe), and plays his bass on his stomach. They're really quite different.

(NOTE: I only know this about Ryknow because my friend Drew would go on and on and ON about how much he loved Mudvayne a year ago.)

 

But yeah, your argument of Metallica "starting" nu-metal isn't really TOO valid (but you do have a very true statement that Metallica influenced today's bands), because it's a generation thing.

[MrRant 0]

I blame the industry for all the bands that are being "created" to fit a niche.

[Guest El Satanico]

Blame the '80s!

I did

[Guest Doyo]

The members of glam acts like Ratt and Poison, whose solo's were generic and non-memorable,

 

Ratt's Warren DeMartini was one of the best guitarists around and I've seen interviews

with people like Steve Vai where they say he is one of their favorites. CC Deville is the

ultimate cheesy guitarist. I wouldn't say his solos are non-memorable, as I can remember

pretty much his whole solo for "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" in my head, and I couldn't

imagine that song without it.

 

allmusic.com :

"Granted, the lyrics are usually vacuous and the music doesn't possess much staying power as the years go by, but, as pop-metal bands go, Ratt were better than most of their peers. Guitarist Warren DiMartini, in particular, is responsible for some of the most memorable riffs and most masterful solos of the genre."

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Something to think about, Laz: Not that I totally disagree with you, but look at it this way:

 

In the 1980's, metal hadn't been around for very long. So really, there weren't many metal influences to draw from, and when Poison or Ratt says that Sabbath was a big influence, that's probably just because that's all they had.

 

I mean, when members of those bands grew up, they only heavy music they really had to listen to would've been bands like Black Sabbath or Zep. So even though they didn't really sound an extreme amount like Sabbath, Sabbath could still be considered a big influence on them, just because that's the heavy music they liked.

 

Why does this matter? Because these days, metal bands not only have the original, 70's heavy bands, they also have a full generation of 80's bands to draw from. Thus, these days, bands can say they were inspired by Death, Iron Maiden, Slayer, Anthrax, and a plethora of other heavy bands that existed in the 80's. In short, MODERN metal/nu-metal artists have more choices as to who their influence is, really.

 

So, when a lot of Nu-Metal bands say "Oh, Metallica was a huge influence", knowing that there's about a jillion other bands they could've been listening to and been influenced by, I think that means a lot more then EVERYONE in the 80's calling Black Sabbath a huge influence. I mean, of COURSE Sabbath was an influence - they pretty much started the whole damned thing.

 

So while I do see where you're coming from, I also see Agent's side, and I think that he may have a point as well.

[Guest Doyo]

, and when Poison or Ratt says that Sabbath was a big influence, that's probably just because that's all they had.

 

Kiss, Aerosmith, Van Halen, Alice Cooper, Slade, Motorhead, New York Dolls, T-Rex, Deep Purple, Rush,

UFO, Whitesnake, Thin Lizzy, Iron Butterfly, AC/DC, Rainbow, Scorpions, Judas Priest....

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Picky picky picky.

 

My point is (and I think it still stands) that Sabbath was THE influence. Yes, there were others (And I should've worded my previous post to reflect that) but I still think that Sabbath is something different then Metallica, as they inspired practically everyone that came after them.

 

And you've mentioned about a dozen or so bands there - while there may be more that we've both neglected to mention, I still doubt that there's as many potential heavy influences on the 80's metal bands as there are on 90's-00's bands.

[Guest Doyo]

I see what you are saying, but every artist has a variety of influences. It is not like people

grow up only hearing music by 3 different bands. The original subject was guitar solos and

for that Hendrix would be named most influential for 80s metal.