RVD shoots..............again!!!

[Guest NCJ]

That rating report means absolutely jack shit, and deep down inside most of us know it. RVD draws in less viewers in his curtain jerking 3 minute match than guys that get ME and 10 minute matches? REALLY!!! GET THE FUCK OUT. Next you are going to tell me the fans WANT to see Vince because he gets alot of viewership. Yeah, he's on the camera 50% of the time but hey, thats what the people want right?

 

Come on dude, you and I both know that that little viewership thing is basically useless as it looks at numbers with no circumstance whatsoever.

 

Put it like this, people would go to a House Show to see RVD ME. WHO in the flippity fuck would pay to see Godfather.

 

Ripper Posted on Oct 22 2003, 11:45 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE (Kahran Ramsus @ Oct 22 2003, 04:38 PM)

QUOTE 

I don't think Rob is the best worker ever, but if someone has good matches with every other major main eventer (Brock, Taker, Angle, Jericho, Austin, Rock), and his only really bad match is with one guy (HHH), it is somehow totally Rob's fault?

 

 

The only good match he had with any of those guys was against Jericho at Unforgiven 2001. His KOTR 2002 match was okay. His only other good matches in the WWF have come against Eddy Guerrero. A-Train has had better matches with Benoit then RVD has. That should tell you something about Rob's talent level right there. 

 

WHAT?

 

Come on, those matches he had with Rob for the IC title were miles ahead of the A-Train matches.

 

And he had good matches with Angle(though the finishes sucked with the Alliance interfering...), Rock(though the finish sucked with Jerhico interfering), Brock(though the finish sucked with Heyman...I think I am seeing a pattern here) and that match against Taker STILL is Takers best match in years(IMO of course...).

 

Lets put it like this, RVD has had good matches with enough varied opponents of different wrestling styles to warrent getting put in the upper ME scene. You don't need the belt to be there, but you do need a interesting storyline and TV/Match time. Thats what he needs. 

 

Thank You Ripper. RVD is not the greatest worker ever, but he is still above average. His style has worked well with a large variety of the WWE talent and he has consistently produced good matches while getting meaningful pops. If those aren't reasons enough to put him in the ME what is?

[humongous2002 0]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

A hot crowd does not make a good match. Otherwise Andre/Hogan would be the best match of all time.

Who said anything about a great match???

You said that we go apeshit for RVD because the moronic crowd is cheering for him.

So now the crowd is moronic b/c they cheer fror RVD? But what does that have to do with the great match comment? RVD is an above average wrestler, who could hang in there with the best and he entertains the fans everytime he wrestles, i don't know what's your beef with him, if anything you should be happy that WWE is not going to capitalize on Rob's popularity, the guy is not even getting any sort of push at all and getting the ic title is more of a step down than anything else.Just be glad that the has-beens are still in charge of the ME scene on RAW w/o getting those huge RVD level chants.

[KTID 0]

Why are you guys *STILL* arguing with these idiots?

[humongous2002 0]

Why are you guys *STILL* arguing with these idiots?

It's fun seeing them get all frustrated.

[Guest MikeSC]

Why are you guys *STILL* arguing with these idiots?

Because RVD lemmings are --- oh, you were addressing the RVD lemmings.

 

My bad.

-=Mike

[Highland 0]

[Guest BionicRedneck]

he has consistently produced good matches

 

That is a lie. A dirty, rotten lie.

[alfdogg 0]

he has consistently produced good matches

 

That is a lie. A dirty, rotten lie.

You must win a lot of arguments with debating skills like that.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

he has consistently produced good matches

 

That is a lie. A dirty, rotten lie.

You must win a lot of arguments with debating skills like that.

 

Yeah.

 

Seriously, there is no point in debating the issue, I will get "RVD isn't the best wrestler....but he is better than Albert!" (which somehow makes RVD good) or I will get called Puro elitist/too negative or some shit.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

RVD draws in less viewers in his curtain jerking 3 minute match than guys that get ME and 10 minute matches?

 

I must have missed all of those Chris Benoit main events during the summer.

[chaosrage 0]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

A hot crowd does not make a good match. Otherwise Andre/Hogan would be the best match of all time.

Hot crowd + hot smark crowd on the net = a good match

[chaosrage 0]

Hogan and ANdre did what they were suppose to...PUT ASSES IN THE SEATS.

 

And if you want to put asses in the seats, you put the guys that the crowd loves for more than a intro(for those who will come back with dumbass Rikishi/Godfather references despite knowing how much of a difference the pops they get are) on TV alot more than monolouges from cripple non-wrestlers that can't produce a match at all.

 

RVD is a lot closer to Godfather territory than Hogan. Just look at the recent ratings reports. Benoit & Eddy are drawing 5x what RVD is with the same push.

 

RVD is similar to Shawn Michaels. He was always a terrible draw too despite his fan support.

When was Michaels ever a terrible draw?

 

And RVD never had the opportunity to draw.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

When was Michaels ever a terrible draw?

 

Do we really need to go through this again? I've lost count of the number of times myself or someone else has had to post burates, ratings to prove that Michaels was a piss poor draw. He is the second worst drawing WWF Champion of all time, and sunk ratings and buyrates to all-time lows in 1996 (which would be dropped lower by Sid later). Bret Hart basically saved the WWF after his title win from Diesel (who was also a terrible draw), and Michaels pissed it all away and then some by King of the Ring 1996.

 

His title run in 1997-98 also failed to light the world on fire, with HIS PPV (Degeneration X) doing one of the lowest buyrates in history. It wasn't until the rise of Austin that things began to turn around, long after Michaels ceased to be anything. Austin could have been fighting Brother Love at Wrestlemania XIV and it would have been a huge draw.

 

Most recently, he killed ratings again in late 2002 before they went up again after HHH won the title back. Armaggeddon 2002 did a dreadful buyrate as well.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

And RVD never had the opportunity to draw.

 

Neither did Charlie Haas, but his numbers are substantially higher than RVD's.

[Fökai 0]

He  is the second worst drawing WWF Champion of all time, and sunk ratings and buyrates to all-time lows in 1996 (which would be dropped lower by Sid later).

THIRD worst drawing WWF champion of all time.

 

 

...

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

Kevin Nash AND Sid, baby!

 

[KTID 0]

False, Nash was the worst, closely followed by Michaels. Sid never did any harm to numbers (lets face it, he was never given the opportunity to).

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Nash actually did better than HBK. If you are referring to the amount that a champion dropped buyrates, yes, Nash moves into the number one slot. But Michaels is still number 2. Sid didn't have that much further he could drop them.

 

RVD has never gotten a true shot, I'll give them that. But there appear to be several wrestlers (Eddy, Benoit, Jericho, Haas, Benjamin, Rhyno, Rey) that have more drawing potential than RVD.

 

HBK had three shots at being the top guy and he failed three times. It has been proven that he is not a draw. With RVD at least it is only speculated.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

False, Nash was the worst, closely followed by Michaels. Sid never did any harm to numbers (lets face it, he was never given the opportunity to).

Exactly. It is kind of hard for Sid to drop ratings when Michaels already put them in the 1.0s.

 

Doesn't anybody remember how hated Michaels was when he lost the title to Sid at the end of his big babyface run? Everybody outside of Texas hated the guy at that point, and he was their big babyface champion.

[AndrewTS 0]

HBK had three shots at being the top guy and he failed three times. It has been proven that he is not a draw. With RVD at least it is only speculated.

 

I still hate HBK although I like his wrestling, but to be honest he didn't really have much in the way of great challengers all the time, plus he was shit as a babyface and all the fans knew it. He didn't want to be heel so he'd just fake an injury and come back as a triumphant face, he figured.

[Jack_Bauer 0]

HBK's reign wasnt helped by the whole nWo thing flaring up in WCW.

 

Notice that all of those reigns were during the heyday of the nWo. I think anyone could have been champion and that would NOT have changed the fact that people weren't watching WWF at the time.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

HBK had three shots at being the top guy and he failed three times. It has been proven that he is not a draw. With RVD at least it is only speculated.

 

I still hate HBK although I like his wrestling, but to be honest he didn't really have much in the way of great challengers all the time, plus he was shit as a babyface and all the fans knew it. He didn't want to be heel so he'd just fake an injury and come back as a triumphant face, he figured.

And here is the big difference between HBK & RVD. Shawn is an unprofessional shit, and RVD isn't.

 

It is still debatable whether Shawn wasn't a draw because Shawn the Wrestler didn't generate interest or that people just hated Shawn the Person. If it is the former than RVD is basically screwed. If it is the latter, I might be wrong about Rob not being a draw.

 

I still think their are safer choices. WWE right now needs to do a lot of small things right, they don't need to take a risk and go for that knockout punch. Eddy or Jericho are easier to push than Rob is. Benoit has much of the same problems, although he appeals to a different audience.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

HBK's reign wasnt helped by the whole nWo thing flaring up in WCW.

 

Notice that all of those reigns were during the heyday of the nWo. I think anyone could have been champion and that would NOT have changed the fact that people weren't watching WWF at the time.

The NWO was at its height in terms of drawing power in 1997 and early 1998. You're thinking of when it reached its creative peak which is different. When the NWO was drawing its best ratings was when Undertaker & Bret Hart were champs and both of them drew better than Michaels did a year earlier when the NWO was still in its early stages.

[KTID 0]

I am of the belief that if a wrestler wins the title and then drops the title within a period of say 1/2 months and ratings remain the same then said wrestler can not be labelled either "a success" or "a failure". If said wrestler increases ratings (constantly, not just a one week bump) then they are "a success", however, in order to be called "a failure" one must either cause ratings to drop, or fail to increase them after being given a long and credible run as the *top guy* in the company.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I am of the belief that if a wrestler wins the title and then drops the title within a period of say 1/2 months and ratings remain the same then said wrestler can not be labelled either "a success" or "a failure". If said wrestler increases ratings (constantly, not just a one week bump) then they are "a success", however, in order to be called "a failure" one must either cause ratings to drop, or fail to increase them after being given a long and credible run as the *top guy* in the company.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but when ratings drop as quickly as they did with the one month title runs of Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan in 2002, then I think they have to take the majority of the blame. In Shawn's case it took a few weeks to get back to pre-Shawn levels, while they never have gotten back to pre-Hogan levels.

 

Besides, Michaels had eight months the first time and still flopped.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

Doesn't anybody remember how hated Michaels was when he lost the title to Sid at the end of his big babyface run? Everybody outside of Texas hated the guy at that point, and he was their big babyface champion.

 

I vaguely recall a MSG match where Sid was supposed to be the heel but got cheered. I think the angle was something about him evilly injuring that Jose Lothario guy or something, but the crowd cheered him when he went after him in that match and also when Sid hit Shawn with a ringside camera before pinning him? Is that the one?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Doesn't anybody remember how hated Michaels was when he lost the title to Sid at the end of his big babyface run? Everybody outside of Texas hated the guy at that point, and he was their big babyface champion.

 

I vaguely recall a MSG match where Sid was supposed to be the heel but got cheered. I think the angle was something about him evilly injuring that Jose Lothario guy or something, but the crowd cheered him when he went after him in that match and also when Sid hit Shawn with a ringside camera before pinning him? Is that the one?

That's the one.

[Guest CronoT]

He says that he was taught to concentrate on his in-ring skills first, character second.

 

I see someone's doing things backwards.

 

I personally can see why he's not pushed. He acts like a twat and he thinks he's way better than he is. He can pop a crowd but hey so could Rikishi.

 

He talks about how WWE has castrated him but his matches in WWE that I've seen have been better than his ECW work not involving Jerry Lynn. WWE doesn't allow him to stall after every move.

 

I also wonder why he has a feeling Triple H doesn't like him. Might it be because he can't work a main event where he's not flopping around or bumping for a big man and HHH exposed him in a PPV main event? Could it be because he landed on Hunter's throat off a high place?

 

Fuck RVD and his pompous attitude. Vince knows how to get the one up on people who piss him off so it'd be wise for RVD to not try and act like he has any sort of stroke and try and badmouth the guy who pays him.

Well, first things first. Your name tends to give me a clue toward your acidic opinion of RVD.

 

Second, your insistence that RVD should work on his character first, and then his in-ring skills is rather disingenous.

 

There are only three other wrestlers in the WWE that are anywhere near Rob's level of skill: Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, and Chris Benoit.

 

Kurt Angle is a Olympic Gold Medalist, enough said. Chris Benoit was trained by the Late, Great Stu Hart; once again, enough said. I believe that Chris Jericho was also trained, either in part or in full by Stu Hart; someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

Let's break down the name of the company: World Wrestling Entertainment. World, as in encomapssing the whole world, duh. Wreslting, as in Grappling, like the Greeks and the Romans did. Entertainment, as in entertaining a person, or group of persons.

 

You have to be a wrestler first, and then an entertainer. That's why The Rock is so successful. He's good both in AND out of the ring.

 

You want a good example? Here's one: Mariah Carey is one of the most successful singers of the 90's and early 2000's. You want to see what happens when you put someone into a situation that can't handle? Watch Mariah Carey's movie, "Glitter." She proved that you can have a pretty face, but if you can't act, you might as well give up.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, first things first. Your name tends to give me a clue toward your acidic opinion of RVD.

 

Yeah, because anybody with The Game as their screen name, even though they give a reasoned post about their displeasure with Rob, MUST be too biased to be listened to. Got it.

 

Second, your insistence that RVD should work on his character first, and then his in-ring skills is rather disingenous.

 

There are only three other wrestlers in the WWE that are anywhere near Rob's level of skill: Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, and Chris Benoit.

 

Oh, sweet God, you can't be even CLOSE to being serious here.

 

Just off the top of my head, workers who can out-work Rob: Christian, Booker T, Kane (yes, Kane), Undertaker (yes, Taker as of late), John Cena, Jamie Noble, Rey Misterio Jr., Yoshihiro Tajiri, Eddy Guerrero, Chavo Guerrero, Spanky, Goldust, Rico, Hurricane, Guido (and I don't even LIKE Guido), Rhyno ...

 

You know, it might be easier to name significantly worse workers at this rate.

 

I'll ignore the rest of the post as it seems more than mildly pointless.

-=Mike

[Ripper 0]

Kahran, all bullshit aside. Are you telling me that you REALLY believe that FUCKING RHYNO would be a better draw than RVD in the mainevent. REally. Honestly.

 

There is a line where those numbers are obviously bullshit. Haas, Beniot, Eddy, they all got considerably more screen time that RVD got as of late. The last time you could find him on screen was during the HHH fued. Besides that, when has he been in matches that were anywhere near promoted as much as the matches on Smackdown.

 

If you put RVD, RHYNO, or Haas in the ME now, you can't possibly with a straight face tell me that RVD would draw in the least amount of fans. You can't.

[Guest NCJ]

Oh, sweet God, you can't be even CLOSE to being serious here.

 

Just off the top of my head, workers who can out-work Rob: Christian, Booker T, Kane (yes, Kane), Undertaker (yes, Taker as of late), John Cena, Jamie Noble, Rey Misterio Jr., Yoshihiro Tajiri, Eddy Guerrero, Chavo Guerrero, Spanky, Goldust, Rico, Hurricane, Guido (and I don't even LIKE Guido), Rhyno ...

 

You know, it might be easier to name significantly worse workers at this rate.

 

I'll ignore the rest of the post as it seems more than mildly pointless.

-=Mike

 

Okay TheMikeSC I like you and respect your opinion, and the poster you were answering to go overboard with his statement, but come on. Out of the list of people you gave inside of the WWE in the last two or three years only Christian, Taker, Mysterio, Eddy Guerrero, Angle, Benoit, Jericho, and Brock have consistently put on matches even comparable to Rob. If you count what they are capable of outside of the WWE I might give you Booker, Hurricane, Spanky, and Chavo. However you must count what RVD can do outside of the WWE also. I'm willing to say that Benoit, Angle, Jericho, Eddy, and Taker when he is on are a little better, and Booker, Tajiri, and Huricane are just as good, but all those guys you listed are not better than RVD. Some maybe close to being as good, but Kane, Rico, Rhyno(sometimes he is almost good enough to be mentioned),and Guido(only outside of the WWE)? Nah you can't be serious.