Straight Edge

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Oh, methheads are fucking worthless, and they'll jack your shit. That we agree on.

 

It's hard beacuse you still want to get fucked up, probably. So do I, that's why I continue to do so. I have quit drinking with relative ease though. I don't touch pills or coke anymore either, but that's mainly because I lost interest in both, not because I think it's "bad" or unhealthy or anything. As far as the long term affects of pot go, I've never had a problem with my memory (and I've been smoking steadily for a WHILE), and I'll be ecstatic if it kills every sperm in my body. I don't EVER want kids.

[1234-5678 0]

He's not saying that not everyone drinks to get drunk. He's saying that not everyone drinks until they're so drunk they black out.

Ah, gotcha. Anytime I have drank to that point, I get so pissed at myself the next day I don't drink for around a week. And for the record, I quit smoking cigs and weed rather easily. Not to say I don't enjoy a couple drags off a smoke, or a couple hits off a joint here and there, but oh well. Maybe I am just a weakling.

[Guest JacK]

Wow . . . cool, that helps a lot. Didn't know any of that stuff though, and wow, looking at all your reasons for being straight edge and stuff, makes mine look kind of lame. What being that I kept seeing how impolite and jackassish (yes, like Jackass) everyone I knew kept getting when they were drunk and stoned and shit, like fuckin throwin up all over this chicks house, and I'm like, nah, I'm not going to do that. It's tight, that's what it is.

 

Anyway, I only found out what Straight Edge is through watching CM Punk, and I figured, I wonder if I'm Straight Edge? Turns out I am, which is interesting.

 

And no, if someone knocked the drink out of my hand, I would get VERY cut at them, and most likely crack them one if they weren't like 7 foot. It's impolite, and just plain not nice to fuckin try and make peeps conform to your views. Stuff I try to stay away from.

[King Cucaracha 0]

And no, if someone knocked the drink out of my hand, I would get VERY cut at them, and most likely crack them one if they weren't like 7 foot. It's impolite, and just plain not nice to fuckin try and make peeps conform to your views. Stuff I try to stay away from.

In my opinion, whever it's religion...this...the whole being a virgin movement...it's all cool, until they try and force their views on you. Believe what you want, just don't throw it in people's faces and act better than them to try and change them.

 

That always pisses me off.

 

 

As far as this goes, I'm not fun to be around drunk. Or rather, I am...but not for reasons I like. So I don't drink much anymore. Never smoked at all...never plan on smoking. Never had sex...not for the lack of trying .

 

Being a 16 year old doesn't help with the first two...drinking especially. I've seen too many people I used to know and get on with go off the rails, both with drink and drugs...and suddenly now sex...and I don't want that to happen to me.

 

Yet despite all that, I'm not going to force anyone to stop. Advise? Yes. Help? Yes. Force? Hell no. It's too much hassle, and it usually gets you knowhere.

[Guest Doomsault]

It's kind of hard to not feel superior to people who don't have enough self-control to not drink or smoke or whatever. Some will say it's not a matter of self-control but it's because they like doing it, that's bullshit because who likes coughing their lungs out or having a kidney infection, not to say that everyone who drinks will get one but not every sXedger is an asshole either. I don't try to force it on others but if someone makes fun of me because I don't smoke or I refuse to drink at their party, there's gonna be fistacuffs.

 

I think everyone forgot the purpose of parties, which is not to get drunk but to hang out with your friends and socialize. Which goes along with the "if you don't drink your fucking brains out then your not cool" mentality. I have watched a few people when they are drunk and they are dicks, and even more so when your sober.

 

We are dying every second of the day so why would you just want to speed up the process? Then people try to pull the 'ol "one life to live" excuse, if so, then why would you want to spend it wasted?

 

Found this on a website

VVV

 

Straight-edge refers to a philosophy that's most basic tenets promote a drug free lifestyle. It developed as an offshoot of the punk rock/hardcore scenes of the early 1980's when the term itself is believed to have been coined by Ian Mackaye, in the self titled song, while he was the singer of the seminal hardcore band, Minor Threat. Mackaye eschewed the nihilistic tendencies of punk rock, promoting instead the simple (almost simplistic) philosophy of "don't drink/ don't smoke/ don't fuck."

 

In the 12 years since the demise of Minor Threat, these simple beliefs have transformed the minds of scores of teens worldwide. Increasingly disenchanted with societal ills, young men and women adopt the straight-edge doctrine as a blueprint to better first themselves, and then the world in which they live. While the original definition of straight-edge only included the rejection of mind altering substances and promiscuous sex, modern interpretations include a vegetarian (or vegan) diet and an increasing involvement and awareness of environmental and political issues.

 

As noted, straight-edge grew out of the punk rock/hardcore scene and so music plays an important role. The Teen Idles, an early 80's Washington, DC hardcore band, and something of a precursor to Minor Threat, can arguably be called the first straight-edge band. Since that time there have been hundreds if not thousands of bands who've so labeled themselves. Early bands included Minor Threat, SSD and Uniform Choice. In the mid to late 80's, straight-edge hardcore reached a zenith, especially in the greater Metropolitan area of New York City. This atmosphere led to the creation of Gorilla Biscuits, Bold, Wide Awake and arguably the most prolific band of the era, Youth of Today. While the bands of this period did much to popularize straight-edge, they also contributed to its closeminded and antagonistic aspects. The attitude between straight-edge and the rest of the world often took on adversarial tones during this time, largely becoming "The positive youth crew versus people who drink, smoke and/or do drugs." Many people dislike straight-edge and its adherents because of such intolerant views.

 

Straight-edge today, while nothing like the "halcyon" days "back in '88," still offers a viable and positive lifestyle. Bands such as Strife, Mouthpiece, Earth Crisis and Snapcase, continue to proliferate and bear the standard. While its detractors often claim that straight-edge(rs) are no more than suburbanite, cliquish, fashion victims, few can argue that the philosophy is still valid. The drug-free lifestyle has left its positive impact on more than one wayward youth. Perhaps the ideals and ideas are more pertinent today than ever as the focus begins to reach beyond affecting merely oneself to altering and improving one's society and environment.

Edited November 5, 2003 by Doomsault

[Guest Nacho Nixon]

And I find it hard not to feel superior to people who aren’t lucid enough to realize the difference between responsible use and abuse (cumulative damage requires repeated use - look at the percentage of the population who drinks within reason, for example, and explain the lack of mass disease and atrophy), and for that matter people who deny themselves something enjoyable that doesn’t (in and of itself) directly harm anyone else based on an arbitrary distinction of which chemicals are OK to ingest and which aren’t. It's been well-publicized that alcohol (not just the extra stuff in wine, but the alcohol itself) could be beneficial in moderation. So if that pans out, NOT drinking is the exact kind of self-destructive behaviour that should be avoided and frowned upon, I guess.

Self-control and self-denial are different things, and often the latter stands in for people who don’t have the “fine-motor” (metaphor) control over themselves to pull off the former. It’s the idea of the straight-edge movement that burns me. I fail to see why, if it's such a personal decision, there needs to be this organized movement spreading the word. I don’t go around calling myself “blunted” or whatever, wearing a special pot leaf shirt.

The same people who talk about never preaching still spray out plenty of thinly veiled, well, preaching, and praise themselves for being "objective" or "accepting" while they do it with a smug "kill yourself if you want, buddy".

Also, in specific reference to the last post, I question the relevance of the list of what bands support this. Not saying there’s necessarily a connection, but there’s a longer list of better musicians in the opposite position (although I concede the next shot in advance, yes they all died of overdoses or are Ozzy now, and the rest have very low self-esteem and small weiners.)

Edited November 5, 2003 by Nacho Nixon

[Guest Nacho Nixon]

I have watched a few people when they are drunk and they are dicks, and even more so when your sober.

 

We are dying every second of the day so why would you just want to speed up the process?  Then people try to pull the 'ol "one life to live" excuse, if so, then why would you want to spend it wasted?

1. I really hope that you didn't just argue that people shouldn't drink because/if it makes nearby sober people uncomfortable.

 

2. I've only got X seconds of time left, why not feel as good as possible for as many of them as possible, even if it means being "wasted" (if you pick your shots, you've got good-to-great odds of gaining more in enjoyment than you lose in seconds). It's largely seen as perfectly acceptable for people to put their bodies at risk in pursuit of an adrenaline high, altering the levels of chemicals already present in the brain, I just choose to throw my brain's switches via a different method.

Edited November 5, 2003 by Nacho Nixon

[Gert T 0]

TTK, I disagreed and didn't like some of your long post, but after reading the whole thing I applaud you. And I can personally disagree with others, staying sober is VERY hard. You must remember it is hard if you have been using it for a long time.

 

I would assume the longest amount of days I have gone since I was 19 is probably 37 days this past summer and that was because I wrecked my car due to drinking. So not drinking & drugs is easy, if you don't do it anyways.

 

But soberiety is very tough.

[NoCalMike 0]

If you are sober and abstinant, fine, good for you, who fucking cares, move along and have a nice day.

 

sXe is just another lame excuse to be a part of something. There is NOTHING superior about these people. I knew and hung out with some sXe's in highschool and I have seen that their "revolution" is no different then the "let's get fucked up tonight and fuck each other's brains out" movement, just in the complete opposite ideology. If you go to a punk, hardcore show you will notice that the sXe kids are one of the most elitist, prick-ass groups around, and it is all based pretty much on bullshit.

 

Don't talk to me about not fucking with your mind when the evening news has more filth to rot your brain then a joint. Or the fact that a hamburger from mcdonalds or your grocery store probably contains 10x the chemicals then a dimebag of pot. I have no problem with someone who chooses not to drink/smoke/have sex. It doesn't bother me one bit, however this elitist attitude is fucking laughable. The worst is "poison free" What exactly is your definition of poison? Like someone said earlier, A fix is a fix is a fix is a fix.......IS A FIX. True, some fixes are obviously more dangerous and harmful then others, but they are all still fixes none-the-less. If you are truley sXe, then you would not walk around wearing sew-on patches claiming to the world about it, and you would shun such social gangs that are hypocritical in their own beliefs. Sure we don't drink at the concert, but just like anyother street gang, if ou look at us the wrong way, you are going to get a pair of brass knuckles acorss your temple.

 

sXe?Nah, I'd rather have a beer.

[Guest El Satanico]

But soberiety is very tough.

Only if you're weak willed and/or have an addictive personality.

 

Anyone who can't stop doing something despite wanting to is a weak person.

 

 

 

My signature is very appropriate for such a thread.

[Hoff 0]

I don't know what's worse: your complete disregard for the fact that there are many people out there whose brains are simply wired to be prone to addiction, or the fact that you acknowledge that in your first sentence and then promptly write it off in the second. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a prick, but it's not that simple.

 

You can become addicted to anything that gives you pleasure (it isn't that simple, but for the sake of argument). Booze, drugs, sex, gambling, more. Addiction has very little to do with someone's will, and more to do with the chemicals the brain releases when the addict is involved with thier vice. Sure, it takes a strong will to break the addiction, but when one becomes addicted in the first place, they often don't even realize it, and aren't prepared to break that addiction. In short, the will has to be built up, through therapy, treatment, and from within. Many strong-willed people aren't strong enough to deal with addiction, at first.

 

Now, if you get clean, and then fall off the wagon...while it's understandable to a point, that may be the result of a weak will (or it may be outside factors). However, it's still hard for anyone to judge, since addiction is often a life-long disease that people never fully beat.

 

And yes, there are addicts and former addicts in my family, so it does hit a nerve, and I do know what I'm talking about.

[NoCalMike 0]

I have no problem being sober. I was sober for the first 15 years of my life WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER. Then I decided to try out a couple of things due to curiosity, and well. I found out what I enjoyed, and did not enjoy. Meanwhile, I work, go to school, pay taxes and lead just as productive of a life as someone who decides not to drink a beer.

 

If you really are concerned about people being poisoned, why don't you attack fast food companies that are geared towards children that don't know any better. Eating fast food is SURELY worse then smoking a joint. Not even a sXe could argue that.

[Guest JacK]

Yeah, most fast food tastes like crap anyway so I don't eat that; only chips and sausage rolls for me (I know their full of crap, I don't care). Then again, most things taste like crap to me, so I don't mind; I don't eat any Fruit or most vegetables either.

 

And what's wrong with the thread? I just wanted to know what it is and stuff . . . not my fault peeps decide to have an argument.

 

And also, about that revolution-y stuff, call me uncaring; but I really don't care what anyone else does to themselves, I mean freedom of choice and all that jazz, that's cool, do whatever.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

For the record, I'd like to state that pot is a pretty shitty poison. It hasn't directly killed anyone...ever. Might have caused a case of lung cancer or emphysema, but that's just because it's SMOKE. Get high off eating the stuff in brownies and whatnot, so long lung problems...

[Dr. Tom 0]

I DID all of those things…I did them a LOT, and it got me nowhere, and close to death, in fact.

Dave, that reminds me a lot of a good friend of mine. He used to be a hardcore drinker and pothead, with the occasional forays into coke. He was the type who would start partying on Friday night and not stop until just before dawn Monday morning. It never got him arrested, but one morning, he awoke coughing up blood.

 

And he quit everything. Cold turkey. On the spot. No more booze, no more drugs. He started going to AA meetings, settled down with one girl instead of playing the field, and basically just got his life together. This is a guy who used to put whiskey on his corn flakes in the morning, and he walked away from all his vices cold turkey, and never looked back.

 

I wish I had that kind of willpower. I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't.

[1234-5678 0]

For the record, I'd like to state that pot is a pretty shitty poison. It hasn't directly killed anyone...ever. Might have caused a case of lung cancer or emphysema, but that's just because it's SMOKE. Get high off eating the stuff in brownies and whatnot, so long lung problems...

Yeah but do you have any friends that have consistently smoked for years? Burnt burnt burnt. That's why I rarely ever touch the stuff.

[Hoff 0]

Just like any drug, pot affects different people differently. First of all, sometimes you don't know what you're getting with it (I had some shit last 4:20 that HAD to be laced with something...thought I was Donkey Kong...yeah), and secondly, different people respond to different chemicals differently.

 

I guess the old axiom of "know thyself" would be appropriate here. That, and moderation, which is a good idea not just with drugs, but with anything at all.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

El Satanico Posted on Nov 5 2003, 01:17 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE (Gert T @ Nov 5 2003, 02:25 AM)

But soberiety is very tough. 

 

Only if you're weak willed and/or have an addictive personality.

 

Have you 'been there'?

 

 

 

 

And Hoff, great points. Couldn't have said it better myself. I have to say(for myself anyway), having that kind of insight into the subject is a terrible burden.

 

 

 

 

A question I have for anyone reading my post: Do any of you('edge' or not) buy it when a person says they smoke pot for the medicinal application?

I only ask because If the discussion comes up and I say "I used to smoke, but only because it was the only anti-anxiety treatment that ever worked...Not to mention it is the only thing that calmed my back and leg pain", I get funny looks, or snickers, or outright called bullshit on.

 

Both of which were true reasons for my usage.

[Hoff 0]

Well, I can't say I'm that familiar with marijuana, nor do I know anyone who smokes as a means of medicine or therapy. But, speaking from my limited personal experience with pot, I can say that I totally buy it as a means of almost theraputic relaxation. Outside of my Donkey Kong rampage through downtown Milwaukee, I've never not been relaxed -- both physically and mentally -- by marijuana. As far as physical pain, I can't attest, but given the chemical effect it has on the body (slowing down nervous responses, among other things), I don't find it hard to believe.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I'd believe someone if they said they smoked pot for medical reasons. Course, I wouldn't care WHY they smoked anyway, but I don't see why they'd lie about something like that...

 

It's kind of hard to not feel superior to people who don't have enough self-control to not drink or smoke or whatever. Some will say it's not a matter of self-control but it's because they like doing it, that's bullshit because who likes coughing their lungs out or having a kidney infection

 

Maybe...just maybe...it's not the side-effects that they enjoy, but the direct effects (getting high/drunk etc) they they desire.

 

And Agent...I'm not sure, but I believe I've read that smoking pot, alone, has never even given someone cancer. Though it could be possible that I just read the same thing that you did and got confused...

 

Yeah but do you have any friends that have consistently smoked for years? Burnt burnt burnt.

 

My question is...are these people fucked in the head because of long-term pot use, or because they're high?

 

I know a guy who's smoked since he was like, 9 or 10. If you were to meet him, you'd probably think that he's fucked from long-term use. But the thing is, you can't tell, because he's just still high.

 

I dunno, I just don't like the argument "Well, I've seen people, etc" because I figure, chances are, if they're smoked all their life, they're probably high about everytime you see them. Thus, you don't know if they're REALLY fucked, or just stoned.

 

As for the whole Straight Edge thing...fine. If kids want to feel like they bleong to something, go right ahead. People like to belong. But when you belonging to a group begins to hinder what I do (And for the record, I don't think I've ever met or had problems with a sXe'r) then it becomes a problem.

 

And since it never has been a problem, I don't care.

[dutchse.cx 0]

From what I've heard, marijuana stores up in the body's fat cells as well, so even someone who's gone "straight" will still act high now and then because their body is releasing stored up shit into their bloodstream MAKING them high.

 

That's what I've heard anyway. Maybe I'll back it up with fact and sources sometime.

[Guest Nacho Nixon]

From what I've heard, marijuana stores up in the body's fat cells as well, so even someone who's gone "straight" will still act high now and then because their body is releasing stored up shit into their bloodstream MAKING them high.

 

That's what I've heard anyway. Maybe I'll back it up with fact and sources sometime.

From erowid.org

 

[1) Doesn't marijuana stay in your fat cells and keep you high for months?

No. The part of marijuana that gets you high is called `Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol.' Most people just call this THC, but this is confusing: your body will change Delta-9-THC into more inert molecules known as `metabolites,' which don't get you high. Unfortunately, these chemicals also have the word `tetrahydrocannabinol' in them and they are also called THC -- so many people think that the metabolites get you high. Anti-drug pamphlets say that THC gets stored in your fat cells and then leaks out later like one of those `time release capsules' advertised on television. They say it can keep you high all day or even longer. This is not true, marijuana only keeps you high for a few hours, and it is not right to think that a person who fails a drug test is always high on drugs, either.

Two of these metabolites are called `11-hydroxy-tetrahydrocannabinol' and `11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol' but we will call them 11-OH-THC and 11-nor instead. These are the chemicals which stay in your fatty cells. There is almost no Delta-9-THC left over a few hours after smoking marijuana, and scientific studies which measure the effects of marijuana agree with this fact.]

 

Erowid isn't exactly the most unbiased source around, but they're relatively even-handed about risks and damage. Conventional wisdom is that this is a myth along the lines of "when you drop acid some gets stored in your spinal fluid, and cracking your neck triggers a flashback".

[haVoc 0]

Hey, if you found that.... Is it true if you take too much acid years later you may have flash backs?

[Nighthawk 0]

I know that's true from experience. Although it hasn't been that many years. Dr. Drew said if you do more than 50 trips you'll have some permanent affects.

[Guest Fire and Knives]

I was sXe for about three and a half years. It's not a moral decision, it's a personal choice - and it happens to be a choice I made because I saw heroin destroy a very close friend of mine. Addiction is not a state of mind, people. It's a real and serious problem. Anybody that says otherwise is an ignorant, narrow-minded asshole.

 

Conversely, not everything in the world is bad for you just because it tweaks your consciousness somehow. I drink, I smoke pot (a lot more than I should), and I've dabbled in psychadelics slightly since I decided to stop being sXe. Does this make me weak? No, it doesn't. It's a choice, plain and simple. Anybody and everybody that paints straightedge as anything more than a personal choice is buying into the group mentality associated with being either for or against sXe and focusing on that instead of the actual ideas behind it.

 

K.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I don't really think you can put a number on how many acid trips you can have before your brain melts.

 

While I'm sure that enough acid trips will turn anyone's brain to mush eventually (Isn't that what happened to Syd Barrett?) I don't think you can set a final number on it. For one guy, it might be 20, but for another, he might be able to drop acid a hundred times or more before his brain becomes mush.

[NoCalMike 0]

Of course anyone who smokes pot daily is going to be a burnout. No one is arguing that, but that is no worse then someone who eats ice cream all day and dies of a heart attack at 35 years old. There are plenty of LEGAL poisons that are far worse for your body then pot.

 

Use and Abuse are two completely different things. There are Doctors on record that state Heroin itself does not do damage to your body, however it is highly addictive and the act of shooting or smoking is what destroys your body along with the addictive cravings. In no way am I endorsing heroin, hell I'd NEVER touch the stuff, but some times people just need to dig a little deeper then a public service announcment or a D.A.R.E. shirt.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

For the record, there were doctors who thought that heroin could help cure morphine addicts, too. Which, I guess, in a sense is true - you wouldn't need morphine anymore.

 

And you also don't make much sense. It doesn't harm your body, but if you stick a needle in your arm, THEN it hurts you? Zah?

 

The bottom line is, I think those doctors are nuts. Heroin can kill you the first time you try it. And they wanna claim that it "doesn't harm you"? Yeah, ok.

[Guest Fire and Knives]

Of course anyone who smokes pot daily is going to be a burnout.

I humbly beg to differ.

 

K.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Dave, that reminds me a lot of a good friend of mine. He used to be a hardcore drinker and pothead, with the occasional forays into coke. He was the type who would start partying on Friday night and not stop until just before dawn Monday morning. It never got him arrested, but one morning, he awoke coughing up blood.

 

And he quit everything. Cold turkey. On the spot. No more booze, no more drugs. He started going to AA meetings, settled down with one girl instead of playing the field, and basically just got his life together. This is a guy who used to put whiskey on his corn flakes in the morning, and he walked away from all his vices cold turkey, and never looked back.

 

I wish I had that kind of willpower. I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't.

 

I am counting down the days until New Years Day. The last time I had a drink was New Years Eve last year. It was so stupid. I was at this party, and they were handing out champagne to toast at the stroke of midnight, and there were a whole bunch of people there, most of whom I had know for a long time, but had no idea about my arrest or that I had a problem. I didn't want to draw attention to myself, so like an IDIOT I drank the champagne, and then got SO pissed off at myself afterwards.

 

I really want to make this one year.

 

I would never have been able to stay sober if not for AA. It's so great to sit down with people who have the same problem as you, and talk, and know they listen, and stay sober to help them too.

 

I tell the kids I work with all time, getting high and drinking is GREAT!

 

They look at me like I'm nuts, but it's true. It is fun. It rules. It feels about a million times better than being sober. There are so many days I just miss being able to have a drink, and relax. I envy people who can do that.

 

I just can't. I'm not ashamed of that, it's just the way things are.

 

If getting high and drunk wasn't fun, people wouldn't do it. It's like paying full price to see a movie. You have to decide how much you want to do it, and if the price bothers you, or are you willing to pay that price.

 

It's like Hoff said, I guess I'm just not wired like that. Once I get a few beers into me, it's like a monster controlling me. I don't like how it feels...so for ME personally, it's not worth the price any more.

 

It was so simple. When I quit, a guy at AA asked me, two simple questions. Was I still having fun, and was it worth the price. In neither case, could I answer YES.

 

Tom, in your case, I bet if you were doing something that was hurting you, and you weren't enjoying anymore, you COULD stop. You're just one of the people who can do things in moderation, or at least you can moderate your excess. I got to the point where I couldn't do that anymore. I abused it so much, it took control. Booze turned on me...so I had no choice but to get away.

 

I am proud of being sober, but like I said, the main reason I identify with the sXe movement is NOT to beat people over the head, or to preach, but just to tell other people, especially younger ones...it's OKAY to say NO. There are other people that do.

 

If there are people who are sXe and proud, and it helps kids say NO when they don't want to say YES, then I think it's a good thing.