RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 NEVER!! IT'S ALL FLUFF!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 FUCK YOU! READ BETWEEN THE LINES YOU FOOL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Puro doesn't really factor into my equation. It's a different style. Different bodies and different bumps. Different training. In the US, Flair is probably in my top ten. I like some other people better though. Dean Malenko & Chris Benoit come to mind. Neither man was the complete package like Flair was though. Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, The Great Muta, Bret Hart & HBK come to mind too. I dunno, he's good, but I couldn't call him the best.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Puro is STILL pro wrestling. It's still a work. They still have gimmicks and gimmick matches there too. Japan isn't some foreign planet or anything. Different builds? For every puro wrestler I can guarantee you that there is an American wrestler with the same build. You can hardly fault them because their training is better and they're harder workers. Methinks somebody feels a little threatened that their Yankee wrestlers may get routed by the Can-Jap Alliance. Mexico may come later. We're not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 There's no way in hell Low Ki will ever be even close to Ric Flair. Maybe when he decides to sell he can start his way up the ladder, but until then he's just a stiff wrestler that doesn't sell shit. Styles has improved a ton, but I hate his silly spots (Kip-up rana, streetfighter 2 combinations). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted November 4, 2003 I didn't list any puro guys in my list of workers because I can in no way judge how good they are at cutting promos and I find their 'playing to the crowd' spots to be way too understated for my tastes. Call me a wanker, but Kawada stretching doesn't make me all a quiver. And its so obvious that Flair blows out the majority of these people in the promo department and the ability to draw people into the match it is sick. I'm sorry but trying to tell me that Benoit does more to draw crowds into his matches than Flair is sick and wrong. Half of what Flair does in their is crowd enticing. Oh and about Flair's psychology, I think a lot of people miss out on the way Flair would draw matches out and use his superior wind to basically sap the life out his stronger, faster, and younger opponents. He would take guys like Nikita and Luger much longer than they were used to going and would commonly come out on top despite having nothing pyschically over those guys other than stamina. I always thought that bit of psychology has been underplayed for quite some time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austin3164life 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Benoit, Austin, Vader, Bret, Eddy, and Jumbo are all better than Flair. I used to fall into that "Ric Flair is the greatest" mode a while back, but once I saw all of his matches I started to see that he is repetitive. Not denying he was great and did influence pro-wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NCJ Report post Posted November 4, 2003 I just have a question??? Is all the Austin love because you grew up with him and nostalgia, or do you really think he is the best. Honestly the Rock in his prime (damn he is barely 30) outclasses Austin in everyway post neck injury. Austin before the neck injury was a little better in the ring when working with superior opponents, but Rock gave better and more varied promos, told great stories, and would bump and sell incredibly for a guy his size(6'4' around 260). Plus behind the scenes he wasn't a known headache like most top draws. He never fused about putting anybody over and always tried to make whoever he was wrestling look like a million bucks. Austin and Flair are both known to be guys who like to use their position to their advantage and not work with certain people. Honestly total package as far as ring work, psychology, connecting with the fans, selling, promos, and being a draw Rock if he had stayed longer would be the best ever. Based on pure ring work Benoit, Guerrero, Liger, Michaels, Bret, Owen, Malenko, Muta, a healthy Davey Boy Smith, Dynamite Kid, Sting, Vader, Flair, prime Savage, lightheavyweight Pillman, Rock, and Steamboat are my personal favorites to watch. If you take into a count how long Flair did it at such a high rate I think he could be the number one worker. However there are other people I would rather watch. Wrestler he is top five. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 I'd take Austin's last heel run over practically anything the Rock has done. He was on fire in the ring and on the mic. And Rey has the chance to be better than Flair? I like Rey, but we've seen the best out of him already, IMO. And with his knees, unless he revamps his style (most notably - cut out the West Coast Pop, which he has really scaled back), I don't know how much longer he'll be around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 I have grown tired of the Rock as Elvis and Austin as the Drunk myself. Flair is still better than both of them in the promo department and maybe a half a step behind then in workrate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Flair WAS great. Overrated? Sure, but he still put in great performances in several matches that some people don't even come close to matching. From a pure in-ring standpoint he isn't the best. Kawada, Vader, Jumbo, Hokuto, Kong, Hansen, Tenryu, Misawa, Benoit, Kobashi, Lyger and more all take Flair in that department. Flair is the best promo ever, though, and a great champion, was influencial, had credibility and could play both heel and face very well. Flair's a very talented guy. If Low-Ki (or Styles or Nagata or Rey etc.)ever even comes close to being as good as Flair I will eat my own shit, puke it back up, piss on it, cook it and eat in again. Oh, and Austin smokes Rocky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KTID 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Yes, Austin does smoke Rocky. Come to think of it, pre-quad tear HHH smokes Rocky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Oh, for God's sake don't even fucking start on how "pre quad HHH was the best in the world" or any of that shit. The guy had some good matches in 2000. That's it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if getting carried by Austin, Jericho, Foley and Benoit constitutes greatness, then HHH in fact was great in 2000. But he really wasn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Oh, for God's sake don't even fucking start on how "pre quad HHH was the best in the world" or any of that shit. The guy had some good matches in 2000. That's it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if getting carried by Austin, Jericho, Foley and Benoit constitutes greatness, then HHH in fact was great in 2000. But he really wasn't. Exactafuckingmundo. HHH has been exposed time and time again as being an average worker. Seriously, do some people honestly think the reason he sucks now is because he weighs more? Jesus. Hell, it's not as if some of his big 00-01 matches were any good. The Benoit match was bleh, the 2/3 falls against Austin was bleh and the Taker match at X-7 (which for some insane reason gets alot of praise) was shit. Anyone who thought he was the best in the world were kidding themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 *Looks at Wrestling Polls and Lists threads. Mocks Choken One for thinking HHH was the best in 2000.* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 *bashes head against desk* READ WHAT I POSTED! If I had a choice to watch a flair match, or a match of the following, I would pick the following without a second thought... Low Ki is more fun to watch than Ric Flair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KTID 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Don't know 'bout Ki, to be honest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Bleh. Fuck Low-Ki. For me, he is about as interesting as Bob Holly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 ... I kinda find Bob pretty interesting... The more I read the more I think that... We're just not the same person, you and I... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coffin Surfer 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Puro doesn't really factor into my equation. It's a different style. Different bodies and different bumps. Different training. In the US, Flair is probably in my top ten. I like some other people better though. Dean Malenko & Chris Benoit come to mind. Neither man was the complete package like Flair was though. Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, The Great Muta, Bret Hart & HBK come to mind too. I dunno, he's good, but I couldn't call him the best.... Your are aware that Hogan, Lugar, Mutoh, and Ricky Choyshu were all trained by Hiro Matsuda. Or that Jumbo Tsuruta did some training under Terry and Dory Funk. When had to pay his dues, Kawada was sent to America for some training in the 80s. And if the styles are so different, than why is that Harley Race, Terry Funk, the Destroyer, Billy Robinson, Stan Hansen, Steven Williams, Terry Gordy could all have great matches with the natives. Even Ric Flair had some good matches with Jumbo. You know Beniot did some of his best work in Japan with the natives as well. edit: Forgot about the Can-Am Connection and Fantastics having great matches in All Japan in the 90s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Not to mention Karl Gotch helped trained Inoki, Matsuda, Takada, Maeda, Sayama, Fujinami, Fujiwara... who then went on to train their own students. Ok, that's British Influence... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest One Trick Pony Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Flair is a good wrestler but that's not what makes him one of the greats. What made Flair great was you could have him feud with the most boring sack of crap and he could make it interesting. Flair is the only guy that ever made Ronnie Garvin and Lex Luger interesting. You could give him the worst material and he could somehow make it work. Even today he still manages to work magic on occasion. He's the only non-Kliq member to get a watchable match out of post-quad Triple H. Lex Luger was only boring as the narcissist. He was over from summer 1993 until about 1999 when everyone in WCW had lost their heat along with him. As far as him being the only non-Kliq member to give him a good match? Who has he fought post-quad? RVD. Kane. Goldberg. He and Booker had a great match at WM. Maybe if he had some better opponents HHH would have better matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest One Trick Pony Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Oh, for God's sake don't even fucking start on how "pre quad HHH was the best in the world" or any of that shit. The guy had some good matches in 2000. That's it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if getting carried by Austin, Jericho, Foley and Benoit constitutes greatness, then HHH in fact was great in 2000. But he really wasn't. Exactafuckingmundo. HHH has been exposed time and time again as being an average worker. Seriously, do some people honestly think the reason he sucks now is because he weighs more? Jesus. Hell, it's not as if some of his big 00-01 matches were any good. The Benoit match was bleh, the 2/3 falls against Austin was bleh and the Taker match at X-7 (which for some insane reason gets alot of praise) was shit. Anyone who thought he was the best in the world were kidding themselves. I think he's a good worker who knows how to sell and create emotion when giving something good to work with but his only match of his good run that I liked was him against Foley and the tag match. I don't understand why Last Man Standing gets so much praise. There was too much stalling, boring offense from both guys, and the ref stuff pissed me off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted November 4, 2003 I don't give much to Austin, especially post-neck injury. Punchpunchpunch. Promos? Pretty good. Ringwork? Blech. Flair? Promos were great, but I sat down to watch Flair vs. Steamboat at WrestleWar (89, I think) and I was BORED. I find that some people's work, while it's considered crap by a great many, thrills me. I can watch Sting all day, even though most people hate him. I think my vote may have to go with WCW Vader, but I honestly need to see more. I have very limited experience with the beast, but I loved what I saw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 The Sting matches that I prefer to watch are pre-crow era ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Sting vs. The Giant from Slamboree 96 is like... really fucking good. Not like "best ever" good, but "this really shouldn't be this good" good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 That's pretty good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted November 4, 2003 I don't give much to Austin, especially post-neck injury. Punchpunchpunch. Promos? Pretty good. Ringwork? Blech. *sigh* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Sting vs. The Giant from Slamboree 96 is like... really fucking good. Not like "best ever" good, but "this really shouldn't be this good" good. I will have to look for that match. Most of my indifference to the Crow Sting is that he basically did nothing but sit in the corner and wave a bat at his enemies and when he finally decided to have a match it was clear that his best days were behind him. Also the Sting vs Bret Hart match which could of been the greatest match ever, ended up being 2 guys not cooperating or selling anything in one of the most boring matches I have ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2003 Also the Sting vs Bret Hart match which could of been the greatest match ever, ended up being 2 guys not cooperating or selling anything in one of the most boring matches I have ever seen. I've known for a long time that it was a forgettable and disappointing match (also based on what I saw) simply because I've hardly ever heard anyone talk about it here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
