Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 You can be a sexist but that doesn't mean a womens rights group have to let you give a rebuttal at one of their meetings. You don't have to let a KKK grand wizard speak at a Black History Month program. And not allowing them during YOUR program doesn't mean you are taking away their free speech. Holy shit, I actually agree with something Ripper posted in CE. Mark this day on the calendar, friends, for Halley's Comet might have paid us its next visit before something this galaxy-shaking happens again. Anyway, I totally agree with Ripper's point: not giving someone equal time at a school function is not an inhibition of free speech. If the school were having a presentation for Black History Month, would they need to give the skinheads in the school equal time? No one would even begin to seriously make that claim, but the same principle applies here. I think this case only got taken because there was an alleged discrimination against religion involved. In reality, the school made sure their program went off without confrontation, and managed to silence an idiot in the process. Thumbs up, sez I. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 I don't even understand the uproar. First of all unless the students are even forced to go to this "event" I am sure about 20 people participate with a crowd of 10 people watching. Everyone else naturally will have gone home and as far away from school as possible. Secondly, why is this event even happening at highschool? WTF? I wish my highschool just decided that instead of that next test, we were going to have some "diversity rally" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 That's a complete double standard. If they are going to have a "Diversity Week" ,which seems to be a Gay Pride thing just with a different name, how is it "Diverse" to not allow the opposite viewpoint to homosexuality? That would be like having a U.S. government week and telling people only Republican views were allowed to be used. So if someone wants to air their neo-Nazi views at "Diversity Week," it's not a problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Wouldn't be for me. It would make for great entertainment value... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Wouldn't be for me. It would make for great entertainment value... Ok, well, we can pencil him in after the kid who thinks US foreign policy justified 9/11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Wouldn't be for me. It would make for great entertainment value... Ok, well, we can pencil him in after the kid who thinks US foreign policy justified 9/11. I'd switch them around because I'd probably use up all my throwing projectiles with Mr. 9/11... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Secondly, why is this event even happening at highschool? WTF? I wish my highschool just decided that instead of that next test, we were going to have some "diversity rally" Maybe the school had problems between different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc. that resulted in some fights and unnecessary drama. Or they just might have wanted the students to be exposed to something that they currently know little about, but will be confronted with in the real world once they graduate. Either way, the things that most of us take from high school have nothing to do with math, science, or history, but with whatever "life lessons" that are learned either directly (like from this kind of program) or indirectly (through one's own experiences). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justice 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Secondly, why is this event even happening at highschool? WTF? I wish my highschool just decided that instead of that next test, we were going to have some "diversity rally" Maybe the school had problems between different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc. that resulted in some fights and unnecessary drama. Or they just might have wanted the students to be exposed to something that they currently know little about, but will be confronted with in the real world once they graduate. Either way, the things that most of us take from high school have nothing to do with math, science, or history, but with whatever "life lessons" that are learned either directly (like from this kind of program) or indirectly (through one's own experiences). A kid I'm close with went to this school and it really wasn't because of anything other than the "It's Ann Arbor, we are our own perfect country and we need to show that off ALL THE TIME" attitude in the area. Apparently they had a lawsuit like this a little while ago and lost out to that as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Secondly, why is this event even happening at highschool? WTF? I wish my highschool just decided that instead of that next test, we were going to have some "diversity rally" Maybe the school had problems between different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc. that resulted in some fights and unnecessary drama. Or they just might have wanted the students to be exposed to something that they currently know little about, but will be confronted with in the real world once they graduate. Either way, the things that most of us take from high school have nothing to do with math, science, or history, but with whatever "life lessons" that are learned either directly (like from this kind of program) or indirectly (through one's own experiences). A kid I'm close with went to this school and it really wasn't because of anything other than the "It's Ann Arbor, we are our own perfect country and we need to show that off ALL THE TIME" attitude in the area. Apparently they had a lawsuit like this a little while ago and lost out to that as well. Well, than that answers that question. As for my reasoning, that is why my high school ran similar programs in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Things I learned from this thread: --The Christian view on homosexuality is akin to a neo-nazi speaking at diversity week. --All negative opinions should be censored because we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Things like "diversity week" are almost always created by people that want to show off how tolerant they are. Do you think all of the superintendents that created things like Islam Appreciation Day after 9/11 did it because they felt it was the right thing to do? They did it so they could get on the news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted December 12, 2003 That's a complete double standard. If they are going to have a "Diversity Week" ,which seems to be a Gay Pride thing just with a different name, how is it "Diverse" to not allow the opposite viewpoint to homosexuality? That would be like having a U.S. government week and telling people only Republican views were allowed to be used. So if someone wants to air their neo-Nazi views at "Diversity Week," it's not a problem? I doubt that she's really going to be endorsing the use of violence. If it helps this school to see what a colossal waste of time that this is then so be it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Neo-nazi? Hardly. There may be a few oddballs out there that take it too far but I'd question how much they're paying attention to their Bibles in the first place, and from there I'd question their personal theology. Now, if you'd like a Christian view that takes into account the old and new Testaments (which we should, but for some reason some people forget about one or the other when it comes to politics or big social issues), I'd be more than happy to provide. Also, my intent is never to alienate. But I fail to see why it simply isn't an understood by now that I'm a Christian and I operate out of that general train of thought. Unless we're now required to post disclaimers. Though, that might help, as the extremist views of what a 'Christian' is or believes is a little aggravating around here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 --The Christian view on homosexuality is akin to a neo-nazi speaking at diversity week. The Christian "you're going to burn in hell, you heathen" view of homosexuality would be, yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricMM 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Thats NOT the Christian view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Thats NOT the Christian view. Not universally, no. But it is there among many fundamentalists. Looking at the press release from this organization that defended this girl's ability to speak at this event, they seem to be fundamentalists of this order. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Attributing the belief that all gays go to hell as the "christian view" is just as bad as saying that the "muslim view" is to blow up Jews and Christians. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spicy McHaggis 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Also, my intent is never to alienate. But I fail to see why it simply isn't an understood by now that I'm a Christian and I operate out of that general train of thought. I'm a Christian too (Catholics aren't heretics, btw) but I preach by example not by saying Jesus this and Jesus that. He knows I believe in him, and that's what counts. Other people, religious or not, don't wanna hear it. Use your biblical expertise, your spiritual experience. Just don't spew crap such as "Not if you know Christ" like your shit doesn't stink. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Okay, re-read what I wrote. I said that one Christian view of homosexuals is that they're a pack of worthless sinners who can rot with Satan. I apologize if I made it sound like all Christians think like that. I didn't mean to imply that at all. We've had conversations on this issue enough times that I thought we've all grasped that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Things I learned from this thread: --The Christian view on homosexuality is akin to a neo-nazi speaking at diversity week. Yeah, it's just like if HITLER was there speaking... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 And look there are some of the co speakers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JumpinJackFlash Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Nooo! This is so stupid! Not what you're talking about, but this story. I can't belive there's a Christian school with gay people in it. It's sick! What is the world coming to? Seriously. 50 years ago, we didn't have Queer Eye For the Straight Guy. Homosexuality wasn't popular. Now, its the in thing it seems. Stop it! I hope my grandchildren, 50 years from now, will not have to become homosexuals to be ACCEPTED. That would be sick! Okay.....sorry.....I'm not trying to be prejudice.....but why be gay? I mean having sex with women is much more fun than with men(I'm ASSUMING!!!). I just don't see how a man can get pleasure from another man. I mean, they're flat-chested! If this makes me sound like an idiot, I'm sorry. I just don't like it how Homosexuals are taking over the world. And I thought cell phones were going to be the ones taking over. This is much worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 What.... The.... Wait for it now...... Fuck? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I'll just respond with the simple, yet effective, "Huh?"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted December 13, 2003 This was a week designed to bring together people, the last thing they needed was someone only there to tear it apart. But free speech is not contingent on people feeling good about what is being said. If the president is giving a speech and I disagree, they aren't violating my free speech if I am not allowed to step up on stage behind him and voice my opinion. That is basically what this girl wanted. The program was designed for people to talk about diversifing, and she wanted to give a speech, at this event, to the student body saying that homosexuality was wrong(at the very least thats what she wanted to say). WHOA! Let's slow down a second. At WHAT event did she wish to speak? Why, it was titled, and this is a verbatim quote, "“Homosexuality and Religion”. NOW, if they have the balls to actually NAME an event that --- then they had BEST be ready to express BOTH sides of the issue. It'd be like having a Confederate Memorial Day at a school --- but preventing anybody from mentioning that whole "slavery" thing. She could sit on her ass all day and say it. Say it to her friends, hell, she could have stopped people in the hallways and shared her beliefs. She still had her freedom of speech. But if the organizers chose not to let her get on stage and ruin it, they don't have to. ANOTHER verbatim quote: they censored a speech she was asked to give on the topic, “What Diversity Means to Me.” So, they ASKED her to speak as well, so this line of argument has pretty well been derailed. You can be a sexist but that doesn't mean a womens rights group have to let you give a rebuttal at one of their meetings. You don't have to let a KKK grand wizard speak at a Black History Month program. And not allowing them during YOUR program doesn't mean you are taking away their free speech. If you ask them to speak on a topic, then refuse to allow them to address a rather widely-held opinion on that topic, you're being --- at the bare minimum --- intellectually dishonest. And you're definitely violating HER rights since, apparently, NONE of the other speakers had similar restrictions placed upon them. Diversity --- it is a TWO-WAY street, like it or not. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Seriously, people need to grow up. Gay, straight, whatever it shouldn't really matter anymore. Also, if your religion doesn't approve, no one really gives a crap. That is why it is your religion and not the religion of the world. Religion is best served when you keep it to yourself and not try to convert everyone. Also, the gay community needs to accept the fact that they are not going to change anymore attitudes. It's over. Sadly, just like some white people will always hate black people and some black people will always hate white people. Some straight people will just hate gay people. The whole idea was stupid and having some religious panel was even a stupider plan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Maybe it's time for ALL minority groups to learn ONE KEY LESSON: The majority DOESN'T GIVE ONE DAMN ABOUT YOU. You can do almost anything you want because WE DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT. The straight community doesn't care too much the gay community. Whites don't care enough to oppress blacks. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JumpinJackFlash Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Seriously, people need to grow up. Gay, straight, whatever it shouldn't really matter anymore. Also, if your religion doesn't approve, no one really gives a crap. That is why it is your religion and not the religion of the world. Religion is best served when you keep it to yourself and not try to convert everyone. Also, the gay community needs to accept the fact that they are not going to change anymore attitudes. It's over. Sadly, just like some white people will always hate black people and some black people will always hate white people. Some straight people will just hate gay people. The whole idea was stupid and having some religious panel was even a stupider plan. To quote the GREAT Whoopi Goldberg, from Hollywood Squares...."I agree!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Maybe it's time for ALL minority groups to learn ONE KEY LESSON: The majority DOESN'T GIVE ONE DAMN ABOUT YOU. You can do almost anything you want because WE DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT. The straight community doesn't care too much the gay community. Whites don't care enough to oppress blacks. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JumpinJackFlash Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Damn:Stupid Double Posts! This Forum has a few problems...such as that BOARD MESSAGE that pops up. It confuses me! To quote the GREAT Whoopi Goldberg from Hollywood Squares..."I agree." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JumpinJackFlash Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Maybe it's time for ALL minority groups to learn ONE KEY LESSON: The majority DOESN'T GIVE ONE DAMN ABOUT YOU. You can do almost anything you want because WE DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT. The straight community doesn't care too much the gay community. Whites don't care enough to oppress blacks. -=Mike What about Red-Heads? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
