Am I the only one???

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I'd say Orton got a bigger chance than London has.

 

Well, when you consider that Orton is where he is basically because of his name (On Confidential or something like that, they said he lierally just walked into the WWF offices and said "Hello, I'm Bob Orton's son" and *poof* he has a job) and that it's been painfully obvious for a while that he WILL be in the main event, whether anyone likes it or not, then fuck yeah he did.

 

London got nothing. Orton got the fed on a silver fucking platter.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Well he can't argue worth a damn that we know. Also Dupree could be good if he can just get out of the stupid French gimmick which IMO are killing him and Grenier or however ya spell his name.

[snuffbox 0]

hes a gimmick people...noone really thinks like this, if they did then the wwe wouldnt be drawing like they are now.

 

but his gimmicks getting over if ya'll keep takin it...

[Lil' Bitch 0]

On that note, I'm going to bed.

 

[2GOLD 0]

I thought the wrestling industry hated the Orton name?

Or was it another name they disliked?

[DCMaximo 0]

He wasn't over then, either. They put him on Raw, gave him a "cool" gimmick (RNN), then made him 1 of HHH's running buddies. I'd say Orton got a bigger chance than London has.

 

Plus London's first Smackdown appearance was against Brock Lesnar, whereas Orton got a match against the toughest of the tough, the baddest of the bad, the almighty LESNAR KILLER, Bob Holly himself- and won! Orton got pushed TO THE MOON on his debut

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Well he can't argue worth a damn that we know. Also Dupree could be good if he can just get out of the stupid French gimmick which IMO are killing him and Grenier or however ya spell his name.

Grenier's been hurt, so it's just been Conway & Dupree. If they could get them away from the French gimmick, I'd have no problem with them being 1 of the top teams on Raw.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

hes a gimmick people...noone really thinks like this, if they did then the wwe wouldnt be drawing like they are now.

That's an excellent point. I also don't see why he can't just quiety leave if he's so bothered that he's "the only one enjoying the product". Does he want a medal? Go to the 411mania forums! He'd fit in nicely with the Neanderthals there.

 

FYI, Eddy and Rey are the biggest ticket-sellers today according to Meltzer, due to the huge Latino market. And they don't have to be giants either! Imagine that!

 

EDIT: One big advantage which cannot be denied that Cena has over Orton is that Cena got over to where he's at today all by himself. Orton needed the faction he's in to help him. HHH said so himself. So keep congratulating Randy, Mr. O'Neill, he's the equivalent to Steve McMichael. Or Justin Credible.

Edited January 20, 2004 by Mulatto Heat

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I thought the wrestling industry hated the Orton name?

Or was it another name they disliked?

 

I don't think so...they showed Cowboy Bob Orton on the program even, so I would assume it's another name. Not really sure though.

[k thx 0]

He wasn't over then, either. They put him on Raw, gave him a "cool" gimmick (RNN), then made him 1 of HHH's running buddies. I'd say Orton got a bigger chance than London has.

 

Plus London's first Smackdown appearance was against Brock Lesnar, whereas Orton got a match against the toughest of the tough, the baddest of the bad, the almighty LESNAR KILLER, Bob Holly himself- and won! Orton got pushed TO THE MOON on his debut

Impossible. No-one can beat Bob Holly. He's HARDCORE~!

[Lil' Bitch 0]

^ Yup, a hardcore race car driver.

[Guest PowerPB13]

If you have anything positive to say about WWE, then yeah, you're pretty much the only one.

 

-Patrick

[Guest Coffey]

Wow, deja vu all over again. Nice to see that the "journalist" never lost his [flame-baiting] integrity. At least it's not in the NWA:TNA folder again. I swear to God he almost killed the folder.

 

Every time I see him type "your'e" I die a little inside. It's so obvious that it's some ignorant bastard trying to get under our skin. Journalist my ass, you're damn near illiterate!

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Wow, deja vu all over again. Nice to see that the "journalist" never lost his [flame-baiting] integrity. At least it's not in the NWA:TNA folder again. I swear to God he almost killed the folder.

 

Every time I see him type "your'e" I die a little inside. It's so obvious that it's some ignorant bastard trying to get under our skin. Journalist my ass, you're damn near illiterate!

Here, Here!

 

 

I thought TNA folder was O'Neill free, now he's hanging around the WWE folder. UGH. I guess there's some people who will stand up for him. See also: vicvenomjr. UGH.

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

Isn't Dave the same guy who said he looked up to scott keith?

 

Plus, unless you have had something, you know, produced, like in a newspaper or something or website, you're not really a journalist. Hell, you're about as much a journalist as I am a filmmaker. And guess how many films I've made just yet:0. Yeah, I'm going tos chool for it but that doesn't mean I am one yet, doesn't mean I'm gonna change my name to "Tony Jaymz, Filmaker".

 

Oh, and from what I read, you couldn't hold the jock strap of Nik Johnson, JHawk, The Dames~, or anyone else at TSM.

 

You'd be great on 411 though

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

You'd be great on 411 though

HA! So true. Same with the Torch. Absolutely zero qualifications on either site. Anyone can post up their verbal diarrhrea, no matter how poorly written it is.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Ugh... I thought this shit was over with when we told him to stop in the TNA folder.

 

I'm only going to say this once, Dave: Cut the shit already. The act is old and you've been warned about it before over and over again in the TNA folder. That shit won't happen here, you have my word on that.

 

If you can't present a differing point without pulling the same peddling shit you did months ago in TNA, then your ass is out of here, bottom line.

[Dandy 0]

Maybe it is my vastly uneducated mind at work here, but has anyone reading this ever found joy in arguing on an internet message board? Now I'm not talking about two or more people making valid points to back up their opinions, just arguing for the sake of arguing? Anyone?

 

How about feeling important? Anyone feel important when they do that?

 

Well, if you like to argue on an internet message board for the sake of arguing, do I have a site for you!!!!

 

http://www.getafuckinglifeandleaveusalone.com

 

Check it out, it's great.

[Adam 0]

Man, all these heros telling everyone to get a life. I just got home from my life, and Im taking an hour break on here before getting back to that very same life.

 

Oooooooh, fighting on a message board! Oooooooooooh, they have no life! Build a bridge, get over it, and fuck off. If these guys want to argue about matters that they have strong views on, whether it be a positive or a negative one, let them be.

 

Dave had no substance to his claims, and I disagreed with them anyway. If he has done the same thing in the TNA folder, then can his ass before he wastes our time anymore.

 

And, finally, nothing will change my negative opinion of Randy Orton, except if he suddenly starts pulling ***+ matches out of his ass on a regular basis.

[King Cucaracha 0]

If you have anything positive to say about WWE, then yeah, you're pretty much the only one.

 

-Patrick

No, you're an anti-smark. I guess that's Tawren's trademark now...calling people who disagree with him anti-smarks because their opinion is different to his.

 

O'Neill is prime for hate though, if only for his track record.

 

The Orton hate gets more and more pathetic around here by the day. You don't like him. Fine. WE GET THE FUCKING POINT ALREADY. The mere fact that 'Suckbag' took off on a message board that ADULTS visit is pretty pathetic.

 

O'Neill's only real point was the HHH/HBK point, and even then most admitted it was a good match. Still, some people STILL had to bitch about HHH and HBK. If you don't like the fact The Clique are dominating, why watch Raw? You know who's on top.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

If you don't like the fact The Clique are dominating, why watch Raw?

 

Because some of us are waiting for the day when the title holder's name isn't HHH, HBK, or Fuck Goldberg.

 

The Orton hate gets more and more pathetic around here by the day. You don't like him. Fine. WE GET THE FUCKING POINT ALREADY. The mere fact that 'Suckbag' took off on a message board that ADULTS visit is pretty pathetic.

 

Much like the Flair hate, we don't see the big fucking deal with Orton. By the way, I think its hilarious how people like to criticize the ways of other people's criticism.

Edited January 20, 2004 by Deon Dark

[Jack_Bauer 0]

Ugh... I thought this shit was over with when we told him to stop in the TNA folder.

 

I'm only going to say this once, Dave: Cut the shit already. The act is old and you've been warned about it before over and over again in the TNA folder. That shit won't happen here, you have my word on that.

 

If you can't present a differing point without pulling the same peddling shit you did months ago in TNA, then your ass is out of here, bottom line.

Okay, it's nice to see all opinions are blessed here.

 

I ain't saying this shit to stir trouble, but I agree with most of the things that he has been pointing out. It's not as if I haven't been saying the same things in here for a while. Now that Dave O'Neill is doing it, it's called flame baiting.

 

The point he made on the pushing of new stars was true to an extent, although he dropped the ball more than once as well. I happen to like Randy Orton, and I happen to think the guy has what it takes to make it in the WWE. He IS improving as a character AND a wrestler. As for HHH v HBK, that match was outstanding, but because of backstage bullshit, that is ignored. I watch wrestling for good matches, and I got a good HBK v HHH match, and I'm sure we'll get another one on Sunday.

[Guest Nater]

Orton is a cheap replacement for the Rock.

-Lesser mic skills.

-Similar appearance.

-Similar mediocre wrestling technique.

 

Holly has done nothing noteworthy or outstanding to deserve a title shot.

-He recovered from an injury that was most likely an accident.

-He's worked with the company for years and been faithful as such.

-His promos are simply painful.

 

Spanky could have recieved a proper push, but did not.

-He did recieve a lot of air time and attention..

-His character was a weak persona, had he been allowed to have stronger ideals (say Rey Rey, Jeff H., Spike) then he would have been credible.

 

HHH and HBK do produce 'good' matches for PPV ONLY.

-Angle, Eddie, Benoit all produce 'great' matches for free.

[Guest Goodear]

HHH and HBK do produce 'good' matches for PPV ONLY.

 

They produced a great match on RAW a few weeks ago which has blown away anything Eddie, Angle, or Benoit have put on TV in the last six months. Shawn has basically been the best worker on RAW for the last two months and has been in more memorable card position than the other three.

[Guest Nater]

I've missed a few Raws lately.

 

Of course, after RR we could only hope that they would keep up the free performances. The road to wrestlemania is usually a cautious one, especially with XX being the hallmark that Vince would want it to be.

 

Can somebody refresh my memory...

When was the last time the Raw title changed hands (longer than 2 minutes) on TV?

 

-purely curious

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I've missed a few Raws lately.

 

Of course, after RR we could only hope that they would keep up the free performances. The road to wrestlemania is usually a cautious one, especially with XX being the hallmark that Vince would want it to be.

 

Can somebody refresh my memory...

When was the last time the Raw title changed hands (longer than 2 minutes) on TV?

 

-purely curious

Do you mean the one HHH has or any Raw Title?

 

If you mean the one HHH has...never.

 

If you mean ANY title...I think the Women's Title's most recent change.

[Kardo 0]

Raw Title = Never changed hands on Raw

 

Title Change On Raw

- Rock from Jericho (WCW Belt) - 5/11/2001

- Austin from Angle (WWF Belt) - 8/10/2001

[Kardo 0]

Now if you want to remember all the title changes on Raw:

 

Sid from Bret (Cage match)

Foley from Rock

Rock from Foley (Ladder)

Austin from Undertaker

Triple H from Foley

Triple H from Big Show

Austin from Angle

[Guest Loss]

I'm late to the party.

 

Am I the only one who believes that Randy Orton is the future of the industry, and should be pushed to the moon?

 

He may be; he may not be. I think it's far too early to be putting that much pressure on him, since his push is still getting started. He's not a success yet and he's not a failure yet. Give it time and watch it unfold instead of trying to be the first to "declare" it something.

 

That's a message for everyone, not just you.

 

Let's look at current favourites on this board.

 

-RVD; Inconsidate Jerk who has publicly stated his desire to quit the WWE. And yet, some people here think the WWE is wrong to bury him.

 

I think the window is long closed for RVD, but burying him because they don't like his personality is exactly the sort of childish behavior a multi-media company with international presence and over $600 million in cash reserves should be above. RVD is still over enough to be a hot midcarder and move merchandise. If they could keep his push consistent, he could probably be a commodity again in six months. Now is not his time.

 

-Booker T: Inconsiderate Jerk who has publicly stated his desire to retire, and yet, some people believe it was wrong for HHH to bury him.

 

I don't understand how Booker retiring one day makes him any less bankable, unless you're following wrestling's ingrained convoluted logic that wrestlers don't retire, they die. If so, you have a point.

 

It was wrong for HHH to bury him because even when he said he would "retire", it was in five years time. That's plenty of shelf life left in a career. It's time to headline, sell out the world and shift into a new era. It doesn't make Booker any less of a coup.

 

Wrestlemania should have been the PPV where Booker went over because HHH took every accomplishment he ever had in his career and made fun of it in one all-encompassing promo and Booker needed revenge to salvage himself as an uppercarder. To me, the racist part of that promo demanded Booker win, but even more, HHH accusing Booker of putting WCW out of business because no one cared about him as champ was shooting more than just a little below the belt.

 

In a time where they have an ever-growing minority audience, insinuating that black wrestlers are just there to make white fans point and laugh is dangerous and stupid.

 

-Chris Benoit. Falling Apart at the seams. Unlike Orton, won't be wrestling in five years( neither will RVD or Booker)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I've already covered just how much time five years is, but how is Benoit falling apart at the seams? He's more over than he has been in some time.

 

Am I the only one who believes that Orton is the first "Package" of looks, charisma, in ring talent and know how to come through since The Rock.

 

Yes, and you would be wrong.

 

Chris Jericho fits that description quite nicely, yet WWE screwed themselves there, since he could have been the go-to guy (or even the real top guy) in many situations they've found themselves caught with their pants down over the past three years.

 

You could argue the same for Rob Van Dam, although Jericho's more consistent and is better on the mic and is a better worker.

 

Of course I am, since everyone here goes "Hey, Vince, Push New People"

 

Vince does so, and pushes the immensely talented and charismatic Randy Orton.

 

and then, all,Vince ets is "No, Not Him"

 

NO WONDER VKM hates you people.

 

There was NO movement for a Randy Orton push. NONE. I don't particularly mind it, but there was no demand for it. Jericho? Yes. RVD? Yes. Booker? Yes. Benoit? Yes. Guerrero? Yes. All to varying degrees of course, but yes to all of them.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Am the only one who believes that Bob Holly - Brock Lesnar will be a decent, stiff match?

 

You're probably right, actually, and I don't think it's a travesty for him to be headlining the Rumble since all the other potential challengers are too hot to be jobbing right now.

 

Of course I am, because most people here can't, again, see that this is another attempt by VKM to give someone different a main event spot - and you people shit on it.

 

Again, another reason why VKM hates us.

 

Oh, get over yourself. Vince 'hates' us because we actually question why we should watch the product instead of just watching because that's what we're supposed to do.

 

I thought that was established a long time ago.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Am I the only one who truly accepts that cruiserweights have ano future in the WWE, and have DEALT WITH IT, and moved on. I'd rather watch HHH-HBK than Rey "I only do the same five spots every match" Mysterio vs Who Cares.

 

You have a point, but you're trolling for heat here. Should I *remind* you that Matt v Rey, when built throughout the show, was the highest-rated main event Smackdown had in months when it was properly promoted?

 

But hey, if you want to ignore facts, and categorize wrestlers into labels, and accept an inferior product, and realize that they have four hours of TV to fill a week and HHH and Michaels can't wrestle two-hour draws every week on RAW, then yeah, go ahead with your point.

 

That's another one - You lot demand WRESTLING - HHH-HBK give it to you, and you still shit all over it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That's nonsense. Most people praised the match and the effort. Few argued that it was the best HHH match in ages. Even those who criticized it found good in it for the most part. You're basing your decisions of a majority on a small minority. History should tell you how inaccurate that is.

 

Just some things I had to get off my chest - there'll probably be more - I'm going to the Puro Forum

 

We'll be right here.

[Guest Loss]

Thanks - I expect a ton of shit over it. My problem is with the ones who go "Spanky would have stayed if VKM had pushed him right." How exactly, should he have been pushed then - and I just know someone is gonna say he should be in Bob Holly's spot.

 

Never gonna happen kids. EVER

Ok, Smackdown has what you might call a light heavyweight division or a cruiserweight division. Call it whatever you want. This is where Spanky comes into play. He does not have main event potential. You can't have a roster full of nothing but main event talent because then headlining means nada.

 

They have a division that needs to be established as different, yet just as athletic and just as competitive. It's a great way to pop the crowd early in the evening once they get to know the participants. The best part is that they have the talent to pull it off, but WWE is not a company that spotlights smaller guys, nor has it ever been.