The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[iggymcfly 0]

The thing about the NBA is that it's not a pure team game like football or something. When you get down to crunch time, you need to have a truly great player to take over the game. The Bulls had Jordan, the Rockets had Olajuwon, the Spurs had Duncan, and the Lakers had/have Shaq and Kobe. The Pistons don't have a player like that. What you saw in Game 2 last night was Kobe taking over when it mattered in a way that the Pistons, despite all the great basketball that they've played, just couldn't do. That's why the Lakers won Game 2, that's why they won't get swept in Detroit, and that's why they'll get the win or wins they need back in LA. The Pistons are a very good team, but the Lakers are a great team that's about to become NBA Champions for the fourth time in five years.

[Steviekick 0]

Hell even if LA wins in 7 it still proves all the media experts wrong. Because they are giving Detroit zero chance and saying it won't even be a series.

Now Detroit looks like the team to beat...not LA.

Funny, most of the pre-series articles I've been reading from the media have been of the "here's why Detroit can beat the Lakers" variety.

Really? I've just seen snooty "The Lakers are going to destroy them!" articles.

However even though the Lakers won last night I think it was a wake up call to everyone. Because I'm reading a lot of "The Lakers are in trouble" articles.

 

Another thing that I thought of is this. If Detroit wins two at home. Which I fully expect them to do then the pressure is still on The Lakers going back to LA b/c they'll have to win 2 straight to take the series.

And it's not that far fetched to see Detroit sweep at home. Hell knowing Jackson's coaching ability it's not so far off to imagine LA sweeping. Though it's easier to imagine Detroit doing it rather than LA.

Most of the articles I read were about how Detroit can upset LA.

 

Lakers will definitely take at least one in Detroit. I don't see them sweeping; Lakers win game 3, Detroit wins 4, and no clue about 5.

[Damaramu 0]

See iggymcfly you just seem like you're drinking the Laker kool-aid. You're saying "They WILL win the championship." Like it's a foregone conclusion. While Detroit has proved in the past 2 games that it is not a foregone conclusion and Detroit has a really good chance to win it. I don't understand the people still saying "Oh yeah. LA will win. No doubt in my mind." If you have no doubt they'll win then you must have not been watching these last two games and paying attention to what is happening. Because Detroit is proving they are just as good if not better than LA. It is not a foregone conclusion at all that LA is winning. As of right now it's looking like they have a better chance to lose than to win. Just after what happened in those last two games. Detroit came out and impressively won Game 1 and nearly won Game 2. A game everyone said LA had to blow them out in mind you.

 

The really big variable in this series I think is the coaches. They're both great and both will come up with a plan to counter the other. I can see LA winning on the strength of Phil Jackson's mind more than anything.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

The Lakers dodged a huge bullet in Game 2. The Pistons probably should have won that game, but in typical Laker fashion, the Lakers scratch their way back into the game in the fourth. Shaq gets the foul call, and makes a free throw (he did have a good game on the line) to cut the lead to three. And on the final possesion, the Pistons had the opportunity to put Shaq on the line, but instead the watch Kobe drain that three, and save the Lakers in one fatal swoop. And unfortunately Rasheed can't hold onto the pass, so the Pistons do not get a final shot. And in OT, the Pistons never recovered and to no one suprise, the Lakers save themselves from complete meltdown. So we are tied 1-1.

 

My observations so far:

 

- Gary Payton can't stop anyone anymore. Billups has torched him for both games, and that is why the Pistons will be in every game, win or lose. And Payton has basically acted like a spoiled brat, whose parents aren't giving him his desert. He acts like he should still be the man, or something, when that is not what his roll is. Karl Malone understands that he is not the man, but he is still is out there, even with a bum knee, trying to win the ring, not complaining/pouting. Back to Payton, I think it can be safely assumed that Fisher is a better PG for the Lakers, he fits in to the Laker's system better, and he never complained once when he lost his starting job to Payton. That is the type of player you need, and the main reason why you see Fisher in at the end of the game, and not Payton.

 

- The Pistons should be up two games to love, but couldn't finish Game 2. So far they have shown absolutely no fear against the Lakers. Their defense is as good as any Western team, if not better. This is another reason they will stay in this Finals till the very end. They have proven up to this point that they do indeed belong. And all those people who had the Lakers winning 4-0, I hope realize that the Pistons are for real. This is one of the better East teams to face the West in a long time. I think this might go 7 games.

 

- How will the Pistons respond in Game 3. This is a key game for them. They got the split, but will they still be dwelling on the heartbreaking lost, or will they "come out swinging". I do believe that despite the choke job, the Pistons have to realize that this is not the strongest Laker team to be in the Finals and that they can win this thing. They just have to keep playing hard, and keep up with the defense.

 

- Luke Walton had a great game for the Lakers. He was a bench player who really stepped it up and he helped the Lakers win. Do I feel he will be a factor for the rest of the series? I will say no. He hasn't played much in the playoffs, so not as much film to watch of him. And so I think the Pistons over looked him, and Walton made them pay. But as a typical Laker team, usually they will have another player, besides the Big Two, come through for them. Rarely will that player put together two straight good games. Just look how much Rush has done since his 6 three night. Now that Walton has made his prescence known, I see the Pistons guarding him closer. So this is where another player needs to step up. A big reason for the Game 1 lost was that besides Kobe and Shaq, no other Laker did crap. I see the key for a Laker win in Game 3 resting on Shaq/Kobe of course, but they need a third player to contribute big time. If they don't get this contribution, the Pistons win Game 3. As for now, I think this series goes back to Game 6, with the Pistons on top 3-2. But the key now for the Lakers is to get at least 1-2 wins, I doubt they can win 3 at Detroit, as Detroit will be much tougher at Auburn Hills.

 

- And last but not least. Will Malone's knee fall off? He looks like that he can barely move out there. How serious is the knee injury? If it really hinders Malone, the Lakers lose their second best big man. And besides Shaq, the Pistons have many other big players than the Lakers. This could be an X-factor for the Lakers winning or not. As Webber shown, when your knee is hurt badly, and you can't move, all of the sudden you have trouble making even the easiest of baskets and you can't guard anyone to save your life. If I am the Pistons, I see what Rasheed can do to make Malone move, because I have this feeling that Malone is for sure playing on one good knee.

 

This has been one of the better Finals in a while, so I hope that this can go 7 games. We fans deserve a good Finals for once.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Defense Wins Championships is a statement most used in football, but it's true in any sport. Last night was the equivalent of a great defensive team getting a touchdown scored on them. It's faaaaaar from over.

 

I expected Detroit to win Game 1, and the true test would be Game 2 after Phil Jackson had seen them up close and could pick them apart to see what made them tick. Game 2 came and went, and at best the Lakers are playing almost as well as Detroit. Jackson still doesn't have all the answers, but after Game 3 he damn sure will. Detroit wins Game 3, but that's when the series gets REALLY interesting.

 

And for the record, anything I've read or seen on TV said that no one from the East had a chance against the Lakers and the East's only chance was if Minnesota had advanced instead.

[iggymcfly 0]

See iggymcfly you just seem like you're drinking the Laker kool-aid. You're saying "They WILL win the championship." Like it's a foregone conclusion. While Detroit has proved in the past 2 games that it is not a foregone conclusion and Detroit has a really good chance to win it. I don't understand the people still saying "Oh yeah. LA will win. No doubt in my mind." If you have no doubt they'll win then you must have not been watching these last two games and paying attention to what is happening. Because Detroit is proving they are just as good if not better than LA. It is not a foregone conclusion at all that LA is winning. As of right now it's looking like they have a better chance to lose than to win. Just after what happened in those last two games. Detroit came out and impressively won Game 1 and nearly won Game 2. A game everyone said LA had to blow them out in mind you.

 

The really big variable in this series I think is the coaches. They're both great and both will come up with a plan to counter the other. I can see LA winning on the strength of Phil Jackson's mind more than anything.

That's like saying that the Jazz proved they were as good if not better than the Bulls when they won a couple games against them in the Finals. The Pistons showed that they are a very good team that will challenge the Lakers, and give us the first interesting Finals since 1998; but they did NOT show that they were as good. Kobe stepped it up in crunch time for the Lakers in Game 2, just like MJ used to do for the Bulls.

 

I said I was impressed with Detroit; they're better than Minnesota, and they showed they can come to play, but I still think that overall, the big-time scorers are gonna be the difference. With the series being as close as it is, there will probably be at least another game or two coming down to a last-second shot, and when that happens, the Lakers will win because they have someone that will make that kind of shot. (Of course, Billups did hit that half-court shot against NJ, but even then, they didn't have the veteran poise to capitalize and they lost in OT.)

 

I'm not trying to say that it's impossible for the Pistons to win the series, I just don't think that they will do it, because the Lakers have a little bit more.

 

P.S. I'm watching SportsCenter right now, and it really amuses me how they're talking about how he finally got to the NBA Finals and his knee's injured. Uh, hello. He already played in 2 Finals when he actually was a major factor, and as I remember he lost one of those series, largely because he couldn't make a free throw in the final seconds of Game 1 against the Bulls. Malone's a perfect example of someone who doesn't have the clutch ability that make Shaq and Kobe champions.

[Gert T 0]

Does that mean Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, & John Stockton don't have clutch ability? Or did they just run into great teams?

 

Kobe & Shaq together make it a lot easier for them to be "clutch enough to become champions". And that is no disrespect to them as they are GREAT players.

[alfdogg 0]

And for the record, anything I've read or seen on TV said that no one from the East had a chance against the Lakers and the East's only chance was if Minnesota had advanced instead.

That reminds me of a time last summer...I went to the playground to play ball, and one of the guys asked me about the Lakers/Spurs game the previous night. After I informed him that the Lakers had lost and were eliminated, guess what his first response was:

 

"Wow, the East may have a chance now that the Lakers are out."

[Black Lushus 0]

Does that mean Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, & John Stockton don't have clutch ability? Or did they just run into great teams?

 

Kobe & Shaq together make it a lot easier for them to be "clutch enough to become champions". And that is no disrespect to them as they are GREAT players.

the only thing Kemp could clutch was ham sandwhiches...well that or easily-impregnable sluts...sorry i couldn't resist...

[Gert T 0]

No need to apologize as I lost the clutch of my sandwich that was in my hand as I was laughing my ass off!

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Does that mean Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, & John Stockton don't have clutch ability? Or did they just run into great teams?

 

Kobe & Shaq together make it a lot easier for them to be "clutch enough to become champions". And that is no disrespect to them as they are GREAT players.

Magic Johnson WAS clutch. When Kareem was injured in the Finals, Magic stepped in at center and had a great game.

 

Drexler has a ring.

[Damaramu 0]

But it's not the same as the Jazz winning a couple of games. The Jazz didn't embarass the Bulls in one game and then take them to the wire in another game where they were expected to dominate. This whole series so far has got to be just flat out embarassing for LA. They were supposed to sweep and be this monster team.....hasn't happened. I think Detroit is better than them. They are proving it and they will prove it again tonight.

 

This jackass on the radio today was like "Yeah well Detroit has gotten really lucky so far and LA isn't playing very good. They're playing very sluggish. Well even though they're going back to Detroit I don't think LA will lose another game in this series. They're going to win tonight. No doubt about it. And they'll sweep Detroit at home."

 

HOW CAN ANYONE SAY THAT SHIT!?

 

Detroit pretty much had there way and made LA like it in Game 1 and LA escaped Game 2 barely.....and still took a nice ass whooping and even celebrated like they had just won an enormously tough game(which it was). AND THIS WAS ALL ON THERE HOME FLOOR!

 

How anyone could still be doubting Detroit is beyond me.

[godthedog 0]

but last night, los angeles WAS the better team. even if kobe did get lucky with the 3-pointer, they had five more minutes to play. the better team would have stopped their momentum and gotten the lead. detroit didn't do that, they collapsed. in game one they were CLEARLY the better team, but LA outplayed them on tuesday.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Thats the thing, the Lakers still haven't beaten the pistons in this series. I don't think anyone can argue that the pistons have about 9-10 coulda woulda's that would have put that game away last night, from fouling shaq up top when he caught the ball, leaving LA with at best a one point hole, having to foul and no time outs or rasheed actually CATCHING the ball. The pistons beat the Pistons last night.

 

LA still has to show and prove against this team.

And this is where you lose credibility. All playoffs you've been jumping up and down about how the Lakers would lose because the opponent beat them, not because L.A. lost the game. Now, in an exactly similar situation, you switch to the line of reasoning that you allegedly hate. A 16-4 run is not lucky, Kobe's shot was not lucky. Shaq not being fouled was, and so was Rasheed dropping the ball... but there's no guarantee he would have made the shot. Kobe was clutch, and Detroit got bitched in OT. Period.

 

We'll see tonight who comes out better prepared.

[Ripper 0]

Thats the thing, the Lakers still haven't beaten the pistons in this series.  I don't think anyone can argue that the pistons have about 9-10 coulda woulda's that would have put that game away last night, from fouling shaq up top when he caught the ball, leaving LA with at best a one point hole, having to foul and no time outs or rasheed actually CATCHING the ball.  The pistons beat the Pistons last night. 

 

LA still has to show and prove against this team.

And this is where you lose credibility. All playoffs you've been jumping up and down about how the Lakers would lose because the opponent beat them, not because L.A. lost the game. Now, in an exactly similar situation, you switch to the line of reasoning that you allegedly hate. A 16-4 run is not lucky, Kobe's shot was not lucky. Shaq not being fouled was, and so was Rasheed dropping the ball... but there's no guarantee he would have made the shot. Kobe was clutch, and Detroit got bitched in OT. Period.

 

We'll see tonight who comes out better prepared.

Strategic decisions is what cost the Pistons the game, plain and simple. Common fucking sense says foul shaq(or Kobe for that matter) with a 3 point lead. They take 2 freethrows. Say they hit them both, they HAVE to foul you. Say you miss them both, they still have to get down court, and make the shot without a play and no timeouts. 16-4 run isn't luck. Kobes shot wasn't luck. Never said that they were. But lets be real here. The Pistons put the Lakers in that position through poor decision making in the final seconds of that game. Not even you can deny that.

 

Earlier in the playoffs, people were acting like the lakers weren't trying and thats why they lost. Thats not what I am suggesting here. The pistons were trying, but they shot themselves in the foot. Two completely different things.

[alfdogg 0]

A 16-4 run is not lucky

Please elaborate.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Dama, you are way exagerrating Detroit's wins here.

 

This is a closely contested Finals, NOT Detroit dominance.

 

Keep in mind LA has led at the half in BOTH games, and had fell apart in the 4th quarter in game 1, and (from what I heard/saw on nba.com's play by play anyways) had fallen apart in the 3rd but made up for it in the 4th despite a great Piston run that almost won the game.

[alfdogg 0]

I'm not exaggerating shit.

 

I don't care how good the team is, a 16-4 run requires a lot of luck.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

A 16-4 run is not lucky

Please elaborate.

Sure.

 

The Lakers were down 89-83 before Shaq's 3-point play. Then Kobe tied the game. Then L.A. won the OT 10-2. 2 points in OT is an all-time Finals low.

 

Final score: 99-91.

 

 

Rip, I see what you're saying but I lump in failure to execute, getting outrebounded, & having less heart all together when I say "not interested in winning". Maybe others use it differently but in my eyes every loss is a combination of one team screwing up and the other team wanting it more.

[Gert T 0]

Does that mean Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, & John Stockton don't have clutch ability? Or did they just run into great teams?

 

Kobe & Shaq together make it a lot easier for them to be "clutch enough to become champions". And that is no disrespect to them as they are GREAT players.

Magic Johnson WAS clutch. When Kareem was injured in the Finals, Magic stepped in at center and had a great game.

 

Drexler has a ring.

Yes I am aware of that, but all of those guys lost in their Finals matchups against the Bulls.

 

I am Jazz fan, I am aware Clyde Drexler has a ring.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Biggest problem for Detroit is purely mental.

 

As far as the game, Detroit can hang with LA, and can win.

 

But if they are thinking about the heartbreaker, that will sink Detroit. At this point Detroit's worst enemy is themselves.

 

As a Pistons fan i was of course heartbroken over the loss. But today I feel a little differen't. I'm remembering the THREE times Jordan got ousted by the Pistons. I'm remembering the steal by Bird on Isiah that cost them the finals berth. I'm remembering the bullshit foul on Lambeer that cost them that one game near the end of 88 finals. I'm remembering game 7 of that finals where they lost by three measly points. Hell I'm remembering Detroit down 3-2 to NJ after losing a 3 OT heartbreaker, going back to NJ, the team that beat them last year.

 

Times like these... this is where champions are born. If the Pistons cannot rebound in either a) this series, or blow the entire league away next season to win the title, then they aren't Champions (with a capital C). Yes I want the Pistons to win, but I want them to be Champions (with a capital C) more than just winning. Naturally in my biased opinion I think they are and have thought so since the season began...but this is a test of greatness.

 

Pistons need to forget about Game 2, and refocus their intensity. Pick off the mistakes. There were defensive mistakes long before that last minute that they made, they need to fix those. Need to move the ball better. Need to NOT RUSH UP SHOTS (my biggest playoff complaint with Det since the NJ series, their propensity to run up and throw up bad shot choices). LB is RIGHT, if they can move the ball around, once they get past, say, the third good pass, their chances for a good shot DO go up. Need to NOT LET the Waltons and the Rushes and the FIshers open on the three point line.

[ant_7000 0]

Key for the Pistons tonight: Rasheed Wallace needs to stop getting into early foul trouble again. Sheed should take it to Malone since he's suffering from a bum knee, Post him up and draw Malone out to the perimeter. If the Lakers can get solid contributions from the bench again, they might have a chance to win tonight.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

^ yup. and even when he IS on the floor, he needs more touches.

I remember in the 3rd Q (i think), he made like three straight shots and kickstarted the Pistons comeback. But he didnt have many shots in the 4th and none in the OT (unless i'm mistaken)

 

If there's one consistent weakness I've seen in Detroit its that they get a little lazy when they're on top (losing to MIL after going up 1-0, losing 2 to NJ after being up 2-0, losing BIG to indy at home when up 2-1). they are better when clawing their way up and are a lot better at comebacks than people give them credit for. they've had a number of good comesbacks throughout this post-season. With that in mind, the best chance Detroit has imo is not so much a "win 2-3 straight" route, but in a closely contested grinding battle.

[Damaramu 0]

Ben Wallace has already pretty much said that the loss isn't weighing on him at all and he thinks the media is making something out of nothing.

I don't think it's a dagger like Derek Fisher's shot was.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Damn. Ben Wallace is the same height as Kobe.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Once again, fuck Karl Malone.

[Guest Choken One]

Damn. Ben Wallace is the same height as Kobe.

yes but he has 'Fro blown tonight...That makes him on equal footing with Gheorge Muresan.

[iggymcfly 0]

Detroit gets hella points for playing Bond music in the background. However, 007 is no match for 008. He's going to rape the Pistons tonight.

[Dangerous A 0]

Game is about to start.

 

I am looking to see if LA can keep the momentum going in their favor that they had from the end of game 2.

 

Detroit needs to have short memories and focus on the game at hand. So far, Detroit has responded in the playoffs when it seems they suffer a setback. They lost game 2 in Milwaukee, then took the next 2 in Milwaukee. They lost that triple overtime thriller in game 5 against the Nets and responded by beating the Nets on their turf to force 7 and then spanked the Nets in 7. They backed up Sheed's guarantee in game 2 against the Pacers and then when they got blown out in game 4 in Detroit, they responded by winning another road game in Indiana and closing the Pacers out in 6.

 

LA has history on it's side. Ever since the Finals format went 2-3-2, the team with the 3 game block has never won 3 straight. However, the road team has swept the 3 game block 3 different times, including the second Kobe/Shaq championship team. LA has to watch out though because they have been sub par on the road in the playoffs this year.

 

I believe that whoever wins 2 of the next 3 games will win it all because I don't think that either the Pistons or Lakers will win 3 in a row against the other unless a major injury happens to one of the stars. I don't count Malone as a major star. He is important, but not as important as Shaq or Kobe or Rip or Chauncey.

[Guest Choken One]

Just a reminder...

 

It's Game Three...

 

Early in the thread I predicted that 'Sheed will finally erupt in this game with 12 seconds left when he finally snaps and finishes what Hogan was gonna do to Malone.