The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[Dangerous A 0]

In all honesty, I think the Pistons HAVE to win on Tuesday because of the format of the finals. If the Lakers take the game on Tuesday, they will get even more confidence because they know the rest of the series is in their house. I know the Pistons are a great road team and have no qualms about winning on the road, but this is the Lakers and they tend to shoot better and react faster at home. Add to that the favorable calls that will start to show up and you have the recipe for a momentum shifting, dramatic 7 game series.

 

About the officiating. I will admit that since the series shifted to Detroit, the calls have favored the Pistons. The Laker-Hater/Piston fans will say that it is just Detroit being more aggressive, which is partially true. The other part is that the home team usually gets more calls in their favor and a lot of that stems from the home team usually having more energy on their floor. The Lakers get the same favorable calls at Staples. In a perfect world, officiating would be straight down the middle, no matter where the venue. However, it is hard to officiate an NBA game with a lot of things like fouls and such being a subjective call.

 

 

Anyways, good luck Detroit. Help me realize my dream of the Payton/Malone free agent signing turning into one of the NBA's biggest tragedies come true.

[NoCalMike 0]

Teams like the Yankees/Cowboys/Lakers etc......are used to getting things their way. Whether it is, foul line oppurtinities, wider strike zones, or sideline officials allowing more physical contact by the defense. Teams like these are just not used to the pressure and reality that comes along with all of it when much to their chagrin the officials either start actually calling it down the middle or heaven forbid, slightly favor the other team.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Or if the other team is outperforming them in just about every segment of the game.

[Guest Choken One]

I missed the game but I get the impression that Jackson's "New but still the same old thing" idea didn't work out quite right?

[Guest El Satanico]

I've heard Phil will be adopting a "what the fuck are you stupid motherfuckers doing to my game plan...get your heads out of your ass and play the god damn game like you're suppose to" approach the rest of the series.

[Guest Choken One]

He ought to pull a Coach Bombay on them...

[iggymcfly 0]

All right. I had to work again tonight, so I just finished watching it a little bit ago. Anyway, here's what I thought.

 

1. The officiating was blatantly biased. It was more than hometown edge or the Pistons being aggressive. What it was was the officials getting pissed off that Phil Jackson would complain about them in the media after all the years that they gave his teams the benefit of the doubt. They were pissed off, and they made up their minds to give Detroit every call that they possibly could. And in a game where Detroit could only get scoring from two guys, those free throws were enough to make the difference.

 

2. The Lakers need to tweak their lineup a little bit for Game 5. In a situation with hostile officials, in a pressure situation, when you can't afford to give up any easy buckets, they can't leave the young guys like Walton, Rush, and Medvedenko to rack up the fouls and turnovers. They've got to get what they can from Malone in spurts, play Rick Fox a lot more, and go small when they need to. Payton stepped it up tonight and I have no doubt that he can be effective in Game 5.

 

3. The Lakers will win Game 5. Shaq's still dominant, Kobe's due for a big game, and Payton's been greatly improved. All they need to do is play a little tighter defense, and be extra careful to stay out of foul trouble since things likely won't be going their way. While the Lakers put in a lot better all around effort in Game 4 then they did in Game 3, I still think they can give a little bit more facing elimination. At this point, is does look like there is a good chance for the Pistons to win the series, but I think if they do, it will be with the Lakers facing a possible letdown in Game 6 after escaping Detroit. Even with everyone else diving off the Lakers bandwagon, I feel confident that the Lakers will overcome everything to pull one out in Game 5.

[The Czech Republic 0]

And I disagree.

 

Theoretically, they CAN come back. Three straight wins and there you have it. But it seems like they're just crumbling now, by the 4th period it just didn't seem like anyone not named Shaq had their heart in it. Kobe is for all intents and purposes, shut down by the Pistons. It would take an in-court-on-court to jump-start him now, and I don't think Eagle County has any upcoming dates for Kobe. Malone is crippled, Payton still isn't where he needs to be, and the bench is fouling out, making stupid shot attempts, or starting wuss-fights. If L.A. wants to pull a win out of its ass, it's going to have to remove its head from the path.

[alfdogg 0]

If L.A. wants to pull a win out of its ass its going to have to remove its head from the path.

 

Quoted for future usage purposes.

[The Czech Republic 0]

If L.A. wants to pull a win out of its ass its going to have to remove its head from the path.

 

Quoted for future usage purposes.

COuld you at least use the edited version to reflect me in fact knowing the difference between it's and its?

[Ripper 0]

People complaining about the calls are really confusing me.

 

Are you DENYING that the lakers aren't pushing off on rebounds instead of trying to get into better position, they aren't just reaching in on drives to the basket instead of contesting shots?

 

It hasn't been biased, it has been a show of how the two teams are playing.

 

The Pistons are driving to the basket, the Lakers are shooting jump shots. They aren't doubling and hacking down on Shaq like every other team has been. They are playing D.

 

The Lakers are playing lazy d and it is getting them calls. Kobe Bryant not wanting to move latterally and just sticking his hip out to trip him was laziness and he deserved the call. Lazy, reaching and pushing defense will get you calls all day.

 

And honestly, how much call argueing did you see in the first half from the Lakers? None more than usual, but they weren't argueing because they knew that they were committing the fouls. Then in the Fourth they want to bitch about obvious calls.

 

Game 2 was the only game that the Lakers started driving to the hoop, and they got a good freethrow percentage. They went away from that so fuck them, EARN your calls. HUSTLE to the rebounds and maybe you wouldn't have to foul the guy who was outhustling you.

 

Out of that game I can think of maybe 2-3 calls the pistons shouldn't have gotten, and I can think of at least 2 the Lakers shouldn't have. Everything else WAS the Lakers reaching and grabing arms on shots. Hell, they were fouling Ben Wallace on PURPOSE and then COMPLAINING about the calls. That was the most retarded shit I have ever seen.

 

Doc Rivers said it best. Shaq was the only one there to play while the rest of them were busy complaining about calls. Shaq was getting to the freethrow line, Shaq was scoring at will, Shaq was controling the boards so common sense tells the Lakers to do what? Shoot threes and long 2's?

 

THATS why they lost. Not officiating, THEY didn't get the ball to shaq and got outhustled, and outplayed by a better team.

 

With all that said, the Lakers could very well win 3 in a row against the Pistions because of how the can go through struggles in scoring. If the Lakers could have taken advantage last night they could have been up 20 in the 2nd. This series still isn't over...but it is toeing the line.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Alright, people... Keep it civil.

Vitamin X, we both just got T'd up. No hard feelings, I just wanted to keep the banter going.

Right. None here, either.

 

 

Anyways, I think Rick Fox needs LESS playing time if anything not more. The more he plays I think the less hustle the Lakers have. And what's all this talk about Detroit DOMINATING Los Angeles? Every single game in this series (with the exception of Game 3) has been closely contested with LA being in foul trouble making the difference. Laker fans are complaining about fouls for that very reason, since that is what has been swinging the momentum in Detroit's favor in the series.

 

Do we need to be reminded that LA was up at halftime during both games at Staples and got beat by a late run in the 3rd, almost came back in the 4th and Detroit stopped them? And of course we all know about Games 2 and 3 (Divine Intervention in Game 2, and the blowout in Game 3) but Game 4 was another close one, and they went into the 4th quarter tied. The difference in this game was that LA got lazy on defense like Ripper pointed out, and I think they need to force Detroit into shooting quick shots since they don't have the shooting power LA has and LA could tilt that in their favor. Even if Detroit plays awesome D on them, they have been exposed in a couple areas, mainly that they're a smaller, weaker, but much more well-conditioned team. Think about what the series would look like had the free throws for both teams were reversed. We could be looking at a 3-1 LA lead or at least 2-2 right now.

 

Despite the series being 3-1 in Detroit's favor, it's not over yet and as pointed out in a newspaper recap I read, Jackson's coaching staff has never been put in a position like this before, so it'll be interesting how they come out facing the monumental task ahead of them. But with having a chance to clinch it at home, I think Detroit will give it all they've got and we can expect a hell of a Game 5.

[Ripper 0]

Alright, people... Keep it civil.

Vitamin X, we both just got T'd up. No hard feelings, I just wanted to keep the banter going.

Right. None here, either.

 

 

Anyways, I think Rick Fox needs LESS playing time if anything not more. The more he plays I think the less hustle the Lakers have. And what's all this talk about Detroit DOMINATING Los Angeles? Every single game in this series (with the exception of Game 3) has been closely contested with LA being in foul trouble making the difference. Laker fans are complaining about fouls for that very reason, since that is what has been swinging the momentum in Detroit's favor in the series.

 

Do we need to be reminded that LA was up at halftime during both games at Staples and got beat by a late run in the 3rd, almost came back in the 4th and Detroit stopped them? And of course we all know about Games 2 and 3 (Divine Intervention in Game 2, and the blowout in Game 3) but Game 4 was another close one, and they went into the 4th quarter tied. The difference in this game was that LA got lazy on defense like Ripper pointed out, and I think they need to force Detroit into shooting quick shots since they don't have the shooting power LA has and LA could tilt that in their favor. Even if Detroit plays awesome D on them, they have been exposed in a couple areas, mainly that they're a smaller, weaker, but much more well-conditioned team. Think about what the series would look like had the free throws for both teams were reversed. We could be looking at a 3-1 LA lead or at least 2-2 right now.

 

Despite the series being 3-1 in Detroit's favor, it's not over yet and as pointed out in a newspaper recap I read, Jackson's coaching staff has never been put in a position like this before, so it'll be interesting how they come out facing the monumental task ahead of them. But with having a chance to clinch it at home, I think Detroit will give it all they've got and we can expect a hell of a Game 5.

If the free-throws were reversed it would be because the playing styles were reversed. The lakers would be driving to the lane, and getting to all the lose balls. Of course it would be a different series.

 

 

People complaining about the officiating is laughable. They ARE pushing off for the rebounds that they are getting called on. They ARE reaching in a grabbing arms when people drive to the hole instead of going for the block. All I see is people pointing out the freethrow disparity but no one can point out WHERE the calls are biased because they aren't.

 

its the same way as Flip Saunders complaining about the MVP not getting calls in the West finals. The MVP was taking fade away jumpers and playing on the perimeter. Of course he wasn't getting fouls.

 

Shaq took 21 shots. he went to the free throw line either 7-8 times last night. everyone else took jumpers. When they do drive they are avoiding contact while the Pistons are looking for it.

 

The lakers have been dominated in this series. They have lost by 12, 20 and 8. The Pistons have dominated the rebounds, the pace of the game and have simply looked like the better team out there for all but 5 minutes of this series.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Ripper, you're out of your mind. The best defensive team in the league plays more physical defense, but isn't getting called.

 

You're delusional if you think Shaq can be guarded 1-on-1 without being fouled.

 

The Lakers had the same number of offensive boards which means they were in position, Detroit just went over the back. Add in the phantom And 1 for Prince, that bullshit call on Payton, plus Billups hooking Kobe and losing his balance and getting the call.

 

David Stern is apparently tired of the West.

 

Offensively, LA lost because Kobe wasn't driving the lane and they went away from Shaq too much. Defensively, they were hampered by poor, maybe biased, officiating which ultimately cost them the game.

 

We'll know how Game 5 will go based on whether or not Shaq gets called for stealing the tap.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I find this utterly hilarious. When one excuse runs out the Laker fans run to the next one so they don't have to admit their team is getting owned. Maybe someone on the Lakers should go out and actually try to earn some calls instead of just expecting them.

[Guest Seven Sins]

I don't see how people can say the Pistons have been dominating the Lakers. Sure the Pistons have the better team but, except for game 3 each game has been close in all quarters until the Pistons get on a run and stop the Lakers from coming back. Like Vitamin pointed out:

 

Vitamin X Do we need to be reminded that LA was up at halftime during both games at Staples and got beat by a late run in the 3rd, almost came back in the 4th and Detroit stopped them? And of course we all know about Games 2 and 3 (Divine Intervention in Game 2, and the blowout in Game 3) but Game 4 was another close one, and they went into the 4th quarter tied.

 

Besides Game 3, like i have said I don't see how the Pistons have truely Dominated this series.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

At this point Detroit is the better team... more heart, more desire, more aggression.

^^Mad Dog read.

[The Electrifyer 0]

They've been dominated because Detroits been playing LA in there style of basketball. LA has never been able to get into there own rhythm except for in a few quarters in this whole series and Detroit has been dictating everything in the other quarters. The score might not show it, but since Detroit is more of a defensive team, they've been dominating with there defense and not allowing LA to play like LA.

[Ripper 0]

I don't see how people can say the Pistons have been dominating the Lakers. Sure the Pistons have the better team but, except for game 3 each game has been close in all quarters until the Pistons get on a run and stop the Lakers from coming back. Like Vitamin pointed out:

 

Vitamin X Do we need to be reminded that LA was up at halftime during both games at Staples and got beat by a late run in the 3rd, almost came back in the 4th and Detroit stopped them? And of course we all know about Games 2 and 3 (Divine Intervention in Game 2, and the blowout in Game 3) but Game 4 was another close one, and they went into the 4th quarter tied.

 

Besides Game 3, like i have said I don't see how the Pistons have truely Dominated this series.

OH please. All games are close at some point.

 

When a team is routinely losing by double digits, they are getting domintated. They are getting beaten to the lose balls, they are getting shut down on offense, They are getting embarassed on D. Their bench is embarassing the Lakers bench. They are being dominated. It doesn't take a 30 point loss to be dominated. It takes being beaten in each and every aspect of the game unless someone knows something they are doing better than the Pistons. COmplaining maybe.

 

I have said and will say this. SOME role player is still due a big game and it could very well be the next one. But when only one player is shooting a good percentage(Shaq), one is shooting a horrible one (Kobe) and noone else on the team has reached double figures yet, They are being dominated.

 

The Pistons do need to put this away tommorrow because the Lakers can beat them 3 in a row. But as of right now, the Pistons are the DOMINANT winners.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

At this point Detroit is the better team... more heart, more desire, more aggression.

^^Mad Dog read.

Wasn't directed so much at you as other more whiney Laker threads.

[The Electrifyer 0]

I have said and will say this. SOME role player is still due a big game and it could very well be the next one.

Nah, I'm gonna disagree on that one. Outside of game 2, all role players have been shut down. I don't see it changing in game 5, since the Lakers have gotten more and more frustrated. Nobody outside of Shaq and Kobe has scored in double digits this series. The only role player I am worried about possibly stepping it up is Fisher since he seems like the only one on LA who really wants it. With Billups and Hunter hounding him, its still going to take a lot to get a good game out of him though.

[Ripper 0]

Ripper, you're out of your mind. The best defensive team in the league plays more physical defense, but isn't getting called.

 

You're delusional if you think Shaq can be guarded 1-on-1 without being fouled.

 

The Lakers had the same number of offensive boards which means they were in position, Detroit just went over the back. Add in the phantom And 1 for Prince, that bullshit call on Payton, plus Billups hooking Kobe and losing his balance and getting the call.

 

David Stern is apparently tired of the West.

 

Offensively, LA lost because Kobe wasn't driving the lane and they went away from Shaq too much. Defensively, they were hampered by poor, maybe biased, officiating which ultimately cost them the game.

 

We'll know how Game 5 will go based on whether or not Shaq gets called for stealing the tap.

That is the saddest goddamned thing I have ever seen.

 

Physical Defense doesn't equal foul. LAZY D equals foul. Reaching instead of moving your feet gets calls. Pushing off instead of getting position gets you calls. Thats what the Lakers are doing and you can't deny what is on the screen.

 

WHEN in the hell are the shorter pistons going over the back? They are the ones in position of the boards. THEY are boxing out the big men and the guards are comingin rebounding. Ben Wallace is tipping the ball away from him and Shaq because he knows he can't win that battle and giving their teamates a better chance at the ball. Do you even know what a over the back call is?

 

WHERE are these fouls that the Pistons are commiting that aren't getting called? I KNOW you are not trying to say call hooking on Billups. If so Shaq and Kobe are gone in 6 plays. There is a difference between slight hooking and throwing your knee out to trip the player, WHICH KOBE DID. I would think the super slo mo with the announcers saying "Yeah...thats a foul." would have helped but please.

 

The fouls the Lakers are committing are OBVIOUS. Yes, you will find a play or two where there was a iffy call, but there are plenty of those on the other end(that horrible offensive foul call on Hamilton setting the screenon the ally, that call on Prince when Kobe came across the lane, the NO CALLS when Malone just reaches in and grabs rasheed by the arms to get the ball) yet no bitching. And I point out again. SHAQ HASN'T SAID A THING ABOUT GETTING FOULED OR BAD CALLS ON HIM. Not one word. All he has said is get me the ball. YES you can cover shaq without fouling. ANd the Pistons are doing it. When he makes his move they are going straight up with him...and he is scoring. They are just not doing the hack a shaq laker fans are so used to and don't know how to react to this. And just because Gary Payton is running around teh court bitching doesn't mean he didn't committ the foul.

 

And this crap from a guy that still maintains that Game 6 against the Kings was on the up and up. I KNOW you aren't bitching now.

 

Ripper - Noticing that noone mentioned the officiating until Phil Jackson did his "work the refs" crap and gave Laker fans a new excuse.

[Ripper 0]

I have said and will say this.  SOME role player is still due a big game and it could very well be the next one.

Nah, I'm gonna disagree on that one. Outside of game 2, all role players have been shut down. I don't see it changing in game 5, since the Lakers have gotten more and more frustrated. Nobody outside of Shaq and Kobe has scored in double digits this series. The only role player I am worried about possibly stepping it up is Fisher since he seems like the only one on LA who really wants it. With Billups and Hunter hounding him, its still going to take a lot to get a good game out of him though.

I expect the desparate Lakers will FINALLY start feeding Shaq the whole game and Brown will start to double when the bigs get in foul trouble. If they do that, they give their role players a chance. Since they haven't been doing that, they haven't had a chance. You might be right, but I expect someone to get a big game. I wouldn't be suprised if its slava M. The way they were leaving him open last night....the only reason he wasn't shooting was because he was afraid Shaq would kill him.

[The Electrifyer 0]

That power forward position for LA has been a disaster. Rasheed, I expect, will own Slava/Malone/Cook.

 

As for doubling Shaq, I don't see Larry Brown doing it. Shaq will be in foul trouble before any of Detroit big men (except Rasheed) will. Detroit did double Shaq on a few possessions early in games and other guys have gotten easy scores. I think Larry Brown recognized this early on, because after the second quarter, its all been man to man on Shaq and its been working great. No point in doubling Shaq now and making it easy for others.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I have expect the Lakers to come into Game 5 and do nothing different at all. They still don't give the Pistons any credit and they'd have to do that before they can even consider a change in plans. I expect they'd be happier to just lose and blame the refs all day long then actually give the Pistons any shred of credit.

[Guest Seven Sins]

When a team is routinely losing by double digits, they are getting domintated. They are getting beaten to the lose balls, they are getting shut down on offense, They are getting embarassed on D.

Now i don't mean to start anything here, I'm just having a nice friendly discussion about Basketball,but when in the game besides the last 5 minutes of the fourth did the pistons have more then a FIVE point lead over L.A.? (keep in mind i'm speaking of game 4) Loose Balls? yeah the Pistons got some but so did the Lakers. You have it with Offense, i admit that besides Shaq and Kobe it was basically nonexsistant The Defense yeah you got me there too, BUT the Lakers D last night was Pretty good to. Hell, Rip didn't even get a basket till the 4th i believe. Nice arguing with you btw, Ripper.

[Damaramu 0]

I really don't think LA has much of a chance at all. They have to beat Detroit 3 in a row.....they haven't even been able to beat them really once definetly at all! If they win 3 in a row it'll be a huge Detroit brain fart and off of some lucky shots. Detroit's better. It's simple. Anybody think LA will admit that Detroit is better after Detroit wins the title? Or will they still make excuses?

If LA was going to win a game they were going to win the one last night. Now they have to play there best tomorrow b/c we know for a fact that Detroit will want the title at home. And so far LA's best hasn't been good enough.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Poll on NBA.com

Detroit leads 3-1; how will The Finals end? 

Pistons in five

     57% 

 

Lakers in seven

     26% 

 

Pistons in six

     15% 

 

Pistons in seven

     2% 

 

Total Responses: 66469

 

I can see the bandwagon is still alive and well.

 

Oh, and...

"Give credit to the Pistons,"added Jackson, something the Lakers haven't done much of in the series. "They handled the adversity of Shaq's great game and kept their composure and found a way to get to the foul line."

[Youth N Asia 0]

I picked the Pistons to win it all. I aint no bandwagon jumper...I'm a hometowner.

 

I got so pissed at every expert saying "Lakers in 4, 5, 6..." I knew the Pistons would beat them down. Cause LA's defense isn't near as good as IND...so they were going to score more there. And the Pistons D was better than the Wolves...so I knew the Lakers wouldn't be breaking out 100 point games...those two things alone and people and people should have realized that the Pistons stood a better chance.

 

ahem...FUCK DOC RIVERS! He was so on the Laker's sack the last game. "Great move by Shaq...Great time out by Jackson...Shaq is so fast...blah blah"

 

If you just listened to his take on the game you'd have thought the Lakers won by 30.

[Guest webmasterofwrestlegame]

Is it a longshot to say he can see the Lakers losing this series and wants in on their good books for a few trades in the off-season?