Terrorists Hit a New Low

[Guest MikeSC]

May 3, 2004 -- JERUSALEM - Palestinian fiends mercilessly gunned down a pregnant Jewish settler and her four terrified little girls in their station wagon yesterday as the family headed to protest Israel's planned Gaza Strip pullout.

After riddling the car with gunfire on a road leading to Israel, the two terrorists then ran up to the vehicle and coldbloodedly pumped bullets into each of their victims' heads to make sure they had finished the job, Israeli police said.

 

One of the gunmen also shot the swollen belly of the eight-months-pregnant mom at point-blank range.

 

"At first, we thought we could do something to save the mother, but it was too late," one distraught Israeli settler said.

 

"The children were already dead, with bullets in the head. Little children. I don't know, I really don't know," the man said.

 

Killed were Tali Hatuel, 34, and her four daughters: Meirav, 2, Roni, 7, Hadar, 9, and Hila, 11.

 

Rescuers found the dead baby still strapped in her car seat, just above a blood-soaked children's book that had fallen on the floor.

 

 

 

The brutal attack occurred at around 1 p.m., as Hatuel, a social worker who counseled the relatives of terror victims, was driving her daughters from their settlement of Gush Katif to hand out fliers at a nearby protest over the planned dismantlement of their settlement and about 20 others.

 

A bumper sticker on their car defiantly read, "From here, we will not move."

 

Hours later, Likud Party voters overwhelmingly rejected a nonbinding referendum on the plan, largely because of emotional backlash stemming from the five murders.

 

Israeli TV reported that a CNN crew traveling in a van on the same road as the woman and her daughters had spotted the ambush being set up moments earlier and tried to alert the family. But the mom didn't understand what the crew was trying to say before it was too late.

 

The two gunmen were shot dead by Israeli soldiers as they fled the scene.

 

Several Palestinian militant groups, including the Islamic Jihad, claimed responsibility.

 

David Hatuel, a teacher, wept uncontrollably over the bodies of his wife and children at their funerals as he begged them to forgive him for spending so much time away from home to lobby against the pullout.

 

"On Friday, [the girls] drew me a picture and wrote, 'Daddy, we are proud of what you are doing for the home where we were born,' " he told the crowd of thousands of mourners.

 

"You were my flowers, and I will not forget you," he sobbed.

 

Several hours after the attack, Israel launched missiles at a Gaza City building that housed Palestinian-run radio stations and two main newspapers. At least two people were wounded. Israel also launched a missile strike on a car in Nablus, killing four militants.

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/23598.htm

 

Wow, TARGETING a pregnant woman and her kids.

 

Yup, Israel is the bad guy here.

-=Mike

[Guest wrestlingbs]

If I have learned anything from this conflict it's that between Isreal and Palestine there are no "good guys," only victims.

 

I hope that woman and her kids are in a better place right now.

[Styles 0]

My god, that is sickening...all because they were Jewish...a pregnant woman and little girls...fucking racist scum of the earth cowards. There probably was a parade in Gaza city, with some asshole blaming Israel for bringing it upon themselves...

 

Moral equivalency my ass.

[Styles 0]

If I have learned anything from this conflict it's that between Isreal and Palestine there are no "good guys," only victims.

 

I hope that woman and her kids are in a better place right now.

BULL FUCKING SHIT. One side wants to destroy a race of people and targets innocents to do so, the other just wants to be left alone and allowed to live their lives.

 

I don't even know where to begin when it comes posting a http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html Myth and Fact but I'll pull out a few that I think prove there ARE good guys and bad guys here.

 

MYTH

 

“Following the Oslo accords, the Palestinians have been educating their children about Israel and a future of coexistence with Israeli Jews.”

 

FACT

 

Rather than use education to promote peace with their Jewish neighbors, the Palestinians have persistently indoctrinated their children with anti-Semitic stereotypes, anti-Israel propaganda and other materials designed more to promote hostility and intolerance than coexistence.

 

For example, a Palestinian children's television show called the "Children's Club" uses a "Sesame Street" formula involving interaction between children, puppets and fictional characters to encourage a hatred for Jews and the perpetration of violence against them in a jihad (holy war). In one song, young children are shown singing about wanting to become "suicide warriors" and taking up machine guns against Israelis. Another song features young children singing a refrain,"When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber." Children on the show also say, "We will settle our claims with stones and bullets," and call for a "jihad against Israel."

 

Photo of Palestinian child dressed as a suicide bomber

 

Palestinians are also calling on their youth to join the battle against Israel in commercials on Palestinian TV that tell children to drop their toys, pick up rocks, and do battle with Israel. In one commercial, actors recreate the incident where a child was killed in the crossfire of a confrontation between Israelis and Palestinians. The commercial shows the child in paradise urging other children to “follow him.”17

 

Similar messages are conveyed in Palestinian textbooks, many of which were prepared by the Palestinian Ministry of Education. The 5th grade textbook Muqarar al-Tilawa Wa'ahkam Al-Tajwid describes Jews as cowards for whom Allah has prepared fires of hell. In a text for 8th graders, Al-Mutala'ah Wa'alnussus al-Adabia, Israelis are referred to as the butchers in Jerusalem. Stories glorifying those who throw stones at soldiers are found in various texts. A 9th grade text, Al-Mutala'ah Wa'alnussus al-Adabia, refers to the bacteria of Zionism that has to be uprooted out of the Arab nation.

 

  “We have found books with passages that are so anti-Semitic, that if they were published in Europe, their publishers would be brought up on anti-racism charges.”

 

— French lawyer and European Parliament member Francois Zimeray18

 

Newer textbooks are less strident, but still problematic. For example, they describe the Palestinian nation as one comprised of Muslims and Christians. No mention is made of Jews or the centuries-old Jewish communities of Palestine that predated Zionism. The State of Israel also is not mentioned, though many problems of Palestinian society are attributed to the Arab-Israeli conflict. References to Jews are usually stereotypical and are often related in a negative way to their opposition to Muhammad and refusal to convert to Islam. A lesson on architecture describes prominent mosques and churches, but makes no mention of Jewish holy places.18a A recent study concludes:

 

Despite the evident reduction in anti-Semitic references, compared to the old textbooks, the history of the relationship between Muslims, Christians and Jews in the new textbooks strengthen classical stereotypes of Jews in both Islamic and Christian cultures. The linkage of present conflicts with ancient disputes of the time of Jesus or Muhammad implies that nothing has really changed.

 

The lessons don't end in school. Summer camp teaches Palestinian children how to resist the Israelis and that the greatest glory is to be a martyr. Campers stage mock kidnappings and learning how to slit the throats of Israelis. Four "Paradise Camps" run by Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip offer 8-12 year-olds military training and encourage them to become suicide bombers. The BBC filmed children marching in formation and practicing martial arts.19

 

The Palestinian authorities also try to convince children that Israel is out to kill them by all sort of devious methods. For example, the Palestinian daily newspaper, Al Hayat Jadida, reported that Israeli aircraft were dropping poisonous candy over elementary and junior high schools in the Gaza Strip.20

 

These teachings violate the letter and spirit of the peace agreements.

 

 

“We are teaching the children that suicide bombs make Israeli people frightened and we are allowed to do it....We teach them that after a person becomes a suicide bomber he reaches the highest level of paradise.”

 

— Palestinian “Paradise Camp” counselor speaking to BBC interviewer21

 

On the other hand...

MYTH

 

“Israeli textbooks are no better than those of the Palestinians. Jewish children are not taught tolerance toward Arabs and Muslims and they are told Palestinians do not exist.”

 

FACT

 

The best hope for the future is that Israeli and Arab children will grow up with a greater understanding and tolerance of one another. Unfortunately, the textbooks in Arab countries, and the Palestinian Authority, in particular, do not promote coexistence. By contrast, Israeli textbooks are oriented toward peace and tolerance. The Palestinians are accepted as Palestinians. Islam and Arab culture are referred to with respect. Islamic holy places are discussed along with Jewish ones. Stereotypes are avoided to educate against prejudice.

 

In addition, the Arab-Israeli conflict is factually described as an ongoing conflict between two national entities over the same territory. Both the Arab and Israeli sides are presented. The content of the peace treaties between Israel and Egypt and Jordan is detailed, along with the implications of those agreements. Agreements with the Palestinians are discussed as well, and the atlas used in Israeli schools shows the Palestinian Authority.21a

[NoCalMike 0]

The saddest part in all of this is the fact that most of this hate is indoctrinated into innocent children, who don't know any better, so they grow up hating people for reasons they can't even explain logically, but the hate was brewed at such a young age, that HATE is all they know.

[Vyce 0]

Wow, TARGETING a pregnant woman and her kids.

 

Yup, Israel is the bad guy here.

 

Come off it, Mike.

 

Everyone knows that the Palestinians are just fighting back against their Jewish oppressors.

 

That pregnant woman and her young children? OPPRESSORS.

 

"We are all Palestinians."

[King Cucaracha 0]

The fact innocent kids are getting caught up in terrorism is sick enough.

 

The fact innocent are being gunned down just makes this whole situation even worse. How anyone can kill a child like that is beyond me, let alone four and an un-born.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I just wonder what it's going to take for Israel to get really pissed off about this whole mess. If I were the PM, there's no way I would have had this kind of restraint. The fact that we can still talk about Palestinians in the present tense is a testament to Israel's patience. There are times, like this, that I wish they were significantly more hot-headed.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

EDIT: Never mind.

 

I edited my post because it came off as insensitive, but the point of the post remains the same. Regardless of whomever they're killing, the effect is the same; an atrocity is an atrocity, no matter who commits it.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I'm sure those PLO members are just acting out their aggressions due to a rough childhood.

 

Let us gather 'round and pray...

[Guest Anglesault]

Christ.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

If I have learned anything from this conflict it's that between Isreal and Palestine there are no "good guys," only victims.

 

I hope that woman and her kids are in a better place right now.

BULL FUCKING SHIT. One side wants to destroy a race of people and targets innocents to do so, the other just wants to be left alone and allowed to live their lives.

Get a grip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc really aren't the whole of the Palestinian people.

 

 

Meanwhile, I think it's time Israel considers finding if there's a way they can recall (or impeach, or whatever) Sharon. He can't even make decisions without his OWN party throwing crap at him.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Get a grip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc really aren't the whole of the Palestinian people.

 

 

Meanwhile, I think it's time Israel considers finding if there's a way they can recall (or impeach, or whatever) Sharon. He can't even make decisions without his OWN party throwing crap at him.

The problem is hardly anyone truely speaks out against these pieces of human feces. The closest you hear is someone saying it's horrible innocent people were killed, but now Isreal know's what we've been going through.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Terrorists Hit a New Low?

 

Think about that title for a second. Just sit and ponder it. Then, realise how asinine of a comment it is.

[Guest Anglesault]

I'm sure those PLO members are just acting out their aggressions due to a rough childhood.

 

Let us gather 'round and pray...

How old were the attackers? maybe they're just too young to understand that shooting someone point blank in the head would cause unfavorable results for the person.

[SamoaRowe 0]

This is all very uncalled for and depressing to hear. No cause justifies violence such as this.

[Styles 0]

If I have learned anything from this conflict it's that between Isreal and Palestine there are no "good guys," only victims.

 

I hope that woman and her kids are in a better place right now.

BULL FUCKING SHIT. One side wants to destroy a race of people and targets innocents to do so, the other just wants to be left alone and allowed to live their lives.

Get a grip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc really aren't the whole of the Palestinian people.

 

 

No, YOU get a grip and stop justifying terrorism and genocide with lies just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to try to be "fair" to both sides and ignore that there IS a clear right and wrong side here.

 

MYTH

 

“Most Palestinians do not support terror, but are helpless to stop the militants.”

 

FACT

 

Public opinion polls taken by Palestinian researchers in the Palestinian Authority have consistently shown broad support for violence against Israelis. In December 2002, for example, 63 percent of Palestinians said they supported suicide attacks against Israeli civilians. More than 80 percent favored continuing the uprising, and a plurality (47 percent) said the goal was to liberate all of historic Palestine.69

 

Despite the suffering caused by the failure of their leaders, and Israel’s necessary response to the terrorist atrocities against its citizens, the general Palestinian public has not called for an end to the violence. No equivalent to Israel’s Peace Now movement has emerged.

 

Still, on an individual basis, it is possible for Palestinians to say no to terror. When the suicide bombing recruiter phoned the wife of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi to ask if her son was available for an operation, she turned him down.70

 

In other countries, including Israel (where they helped prompt a withdrawal from Lebanon), mothers have often helped stimulate positive change. When enough Palestinian mothers stand up to the terror recruiters, and to their political leaders, and say that they will no longer allow their children to be used as bombs and cannon fodder, the prospects for peace will improve. So long as they prefer their children to be martyrs rather than doctors, bombers rather than scholars, and murderers rather than lawyers, the violence will continue and young Palestinians will continue to die needlessly.

 

 

 

“We were never different from Hamas. Hamas is a national movement. Strategically, there is is no difference between us.”

 

— Farouk Kaddoumi, head of the PLO political department70a

or...

 

 

MYTH

 

“The Palestinian Authority is helpless to dismantle Hamas and Islamic Jihad because the terrorist groups are too powerful and popular.”

 

FACT

 

The media has helped create the misperception that the Palestinian Authority (PA) cannot dismantle the terrorist network in its midst because of the strength and popularity of the radical Islamic Palestinian terrorist groups.

 

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not huge armed forces. Together, the armed wings of both organizations total fewer than 1,000 men. By contrast, the PA has 35,000 people in a variety of police, intelligence, and security forces.92 Not only does the PA have overwhelming superiority of manpower and firepower, it also has the intelligence assets to find most, if not all of the terrorists.

 

It is true these Islamic groups have achieved some popularity, but polls show that together they still are only supported by about one-fourth of the Palestinian population. The PA is not a democracy, so its leaders do not base their decisions on public opinion, but the data shows that it is not hindered from acting by any overwhelming sympathy for the radical factions.

 

The PA could follow the example of the Jordanian government which has not allowed Hamas to establish a foothold in the kingdom. King Abdullah closed their offices in Amman, as well as their newspaper, and has arrested and deported numerous members of the organization.93

 

The Palestinians made the commitment to stop terrorism in 1993, and have repeatedly promised to do so since then, including their 2003 assent to the road map. They still have not lived up to this fundamental requirement for peace. No progress toward Palestinian statehood can be made until the violence stops, and the PA cannot use the excuse that it lacks the means to put an end to the violent activities of a tiny minority of the Palestinian people.

 

“Whatever the tactical stiffness of Israel is, on the big issues it has made astonishing concessions every time there was an opportunity for peace. They did it under Rabin, they did it under (former prime minister Ehud) Barak, and they would do it under Sharon, or anyone else.”

 

— Henry Kissinger94

 

Meanwhile, I think it's time Israel considers finding if there's a way they can recall (or impeach, or whatever) Sharon. He can't even make decisions without his OWN party throwing crap at him.

 

and...

 

MYTH

 

“Ariel Sharon has made clear that he does not want peace and no deal is possible as long as he is Prime Minister.”

 

FACT

 

Ariel Sharon has been demonized by the Arabs and caricatured by the media, which often insists on referring to him as the "right-wing" or "hard-line" Prime Minister, appellations rarely affixed to any other foreign leaders. Sharon has spent most of his life as a soldier and public servant trying to bring peace to his nation.

 

It was Ariel Sharon who gave then Prime Minister Menachem Begin the critical backing that made the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty possible. At a crucial moment at Camp David, the negotiations were on the verge of collapse over Egyptian President Anwar Sadat's insistence that all Israeli settlements in the Sinai be dismantled. Begin called Sharon and asked if he should give up the settlements; Sharon not only advised him to do so, but ultimately was the one who implemented the decision to remove the settlers, some by force.59

 

Sharon's views have also evolved over time. While he was once fiercely opposed to the creation of a Palestinian state, as Prime Minister he has endorsed the idea, in opposition to members of his own party. Since taking office, Sharon has repeatedly offered to negotiate with the Palestinians on condition only that they end the violence. He asked for only seven days of peace — a demand some found onerous despite the fact that the Palestinians had promised at Oslo eight years of peace — and later even dropped that demand. When he did, the Palestinians answered his gesture with the Passover massacre, the suicide bombing of a religious observance in a Netanya hotel in which 29 people were killed.

 

Sharon subsequently proposed a peace conference, an idea the Bush Administration endorsed. Even when Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah proposed a peace initiative that was filled with provisions the Saudi knew Israel could never accept, Sharon did not reject the plan, and called for direct negotiations to discuss it. Now, Sharon has agreed to negotiate with the Palestinians according to the road map formula devised by the United States, Russia, the European Union, and the United Nations, despite serious reservations about many elements of the plan.

 

Sharon also has said he is prepared to dismantle settlements, despite virulent opposition from his own party, and being regarded as one of the architects of their growth. In a speech to the Likud Central Committee, Sharon said, “Clearly, in the permanent agreement we will have to give up some of the Jewish settlements.” He has also spoken of unilaterally relocating some of them.

 

If the Arabs doubt Sharon's commitment to peace, all they need do is put him to the test – end the violence and begin negotiations. So long as the Palestinians keep up their terrorist attacks, no Israeli Prime Minister can offer them concessions.

 

“To keep 3.5 million people under occupation is bad for us and them....I want to say clearly that I have come to the conclusion that we have to reach a [peace] agreement.”

 

— Prime Minister Ariel Sharon59a

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Source.

[Guest MikeSC]

Wow, TARGETING a pregnant woman and her kids.

 

Yup, Israel is the bad guy here.

 

Come off it, Mike.

 

Everyone knows that the Palestinians are just fighting back against their Jewish oppressors.

 

That pregnant woman and her young children? OPPRESSORS.

 

"We are all Palestinians."

She probably had it coming anyway.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Source.

Probably the same source he used earlier in the thread.

-=Mike

...A damned good source, mind you

[Styles 0]

Source.

For god's sake, I only post it in every thread demonizing Israel, and considering I posted it earlier in THIS VERY THREAD, I thought I would avoid redudancy, but I guess redudancy is neccesarry to counter-act idiocy. For those not paying attention...

 

The above is a double Israel Myth and Fact of The Day from from http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html, your best source for counteracting erroneous and untrue myths discrediting Israel.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Their problem is that these "Facts" they spew may very well be correct, but they don't back them up at all. They throw out numbers like they're common knowledge without sourcing them.

 

And don't retort like some snot nosed brat. I don't read your posts religiously for Chrissakes.

[Styles 0]

Their problem is that these "Facts" they spew may very well be correct, but they don't back them up at all. They throw out numbers like they're common knowledge without sourcing them.

 

And don't retort like some snot nosed brat. I don't read your posts religiously for Chrissakes.

You see those little numbers that appear after some sentences? Those are footnotes, it's hard for me to copy and paste the foot notes without screwing up formatting so, if you're not satisfied, you can go to the link and stop finding reasons to whine... sheesh...

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Well, golly... I do surely apologize for being skeptical when your claims condemn an entire race of people.

 

Shucks.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, golly... I do surely apologize for being skeptical when your claims condemn an entire race of people.

 

Shucks.

I guess you doubt the Holocaust, too, since it kinda condemns a group of people too.

-=Mike

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Wow, you're a blithering moron. Let's take a look at that quote again, shall we?

 

Well, golly... I do surely apologize for being skeptical when your claims condemn an entire race of people.

 

Yeah, I would've doubted the Final Solution, given that it condemned an entire race of people.

 

Semantics, sport.

[Styles 0]

Wow, you're a blithering moron. Let's take a look at that quote again, shall we?

 

Well, golly... I do surely apologize for being skeptical when your claims condemn an entire race of people.

 

Yeah, I would've doubted the Final Solution, given that it condemned an entire race of people.

 

Semantics, sport.

WHOOOSH~!!!!

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

No, I know exactly what he was claiming. I also know that his particular interpretation of my comment was utterly retarded.

 

You were going above and beyond the condmenation of, say, Hamas in your hysterics. Say...

 

BULL FUCKING SHIT. One side wants to destroy a race of people and targets innocents to do so, the other just wants to be left alone and allowed to live their lives.

 

or...

 

There probably was a parade in Gaza city, with some asshole blaming Israel for bringing it upon themselves...

 

Your quick reference to your wonderful website, complete with incomplete sourcing of claims, led to my skepticism. You're basically stooping to Mike's "SUBHUMAN MONKEYS!~!" level when it comes to condemning all of the people of Palestine.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

No, YOU get a grip and stop justifying terrorism and genocide with lies just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to try to be "fair" to both sides and ignore that there IS a clear right and wrong side here.

So, even if there is a right and wrong side, and clearly Hamas et al are the wrong side, then how does that justify wiping out the whole of the Palestinian people?

 

How does genocide excuse genocide?

 

 

And Slapnuts, rather than shouting MYTH and FACT at me all the time, how about acknowledging that even though Hamas is scum, even though the Palestinian government is scum for supporting them, that it doesn't mean that every single Palestinian citizen is scum?

Edited May 4, 2004 by Jobber of the Week

[Styles 0]

And Slapnuts, rather than shouting MYTH and FACT at me all the time, how about acknowledging that even though Hamas is scum, even though the Palestinian government is scum for supporting them, that it doesn't mean that every single Palestinian citizen is scum?

Of course every Palestinian isn't scum. Unfortunately though, the good majority of their leadership is incredibly anti-semetic and they indoctinate that same culture of hate and violence into their children who continue the cycle. As Mike might have been alluding to, much of the German youth was lied to and manipulated as well, but never the less they were still Nazis.

The lack of anyone from the Arab World speaking out and condemning these actions without using it as another excuse to blast Israel and its existence just perpetuates their own self fulfilling prophecies. If the Palestinian people want respect, they need to earn it.

Considering one side is a democracy allowing all religions to be practiced freely, freedom of speech, et. al and the other indoctinates racist and violent attitudes, I can't in good conscience equate the two.