What are the causes of prisoner abuse in Iraq?

[Guest MikeSC]

Cliches? Hardly... here's a fact you may or may not know about me. I live in Iowa Park... TEXAS

Big on irrelevancy, aren't ya?

A rural hick town near Wichita Falls, which is a few hundred miles from Dallas. I see this shit everyday. I attended a "freedom rally" where yes, 50% of those that attended, wore overalls and had missing teeth.

So, you having issues with your hometown means the whole South is bad? Got it.

And the themesong to the rally? "Hey Hollywood." A stupid country music song by the... get this... RIGHT Brothers. The lyrics? "Hey Hollywood, we heard your message and it don't sound good..." If you haven't heard this, the moral of the song is: We have opinions too, and we support the war, and if you dont support the war, then you dont like America and should leave. So basically... we all should be allowed to express our opinions because we live in a free country, BUT if you dont support the war, then you dont love America, and you should leave

 

I also live in a family full of hicks. I love them, don't get me wrong, but for the last week, all I've heard is "I dont get the big deal about all this... we should just bomb the entire country off of the fucking planet."

 

I also know that a majority of frustrated, southern white men are Republican, and that Republicans have and will continue to target them as constituents...

Whew. I was worried you used stereotypes and cliches a lot. You, apparently, proved me wrong.

So I live here... and I KNOW how ridiculously closed minded and ultra conservative this place is.

Ah, the lone voice of reason in the wilderness. How touching.

It's the fucking BIBLE belt. So, believe it or not... alot of the south really IS like that.

I'm from South Carolina. It's not like that here --- and we're pretty darned Southern.

And this is coming from someone who has lived here for 21 years, so it's not like I'm a New Yorker who sees an episode of Hee-Haw every now and then on cable and automatically assumes the south is like that, although some of it is... example: Punkin Center... thats right PUNKIN Center, a small town about 30 miles from here

 

"The South? Isnt that the place where the black guys are really lazy, but all the white guys are just as lazy but they're mad at the black guys for being so lazy?" - Peter Griffin, Family Guy

Man, do you have back problems --- I mean, you carry that cross and all?

Marney and MikeSC - So you two are more or less advocating a sort of "eye for an eye" system of dealing with enemies, right? I see merit in that, if that is the case.

My level of sympathy for people who butcher women who get raped, who send little kids out to blow themselves up is pretty darned low.

 

Avoid being mean if you can --- but lord, I'm not going to lose sleep over the affair.

My god, how somebody like you can stick a label of ignorance on anybody is laughable. I almost choked on my cornflakes.

Wow, should I make "Bush choking on a pretzel" type jokes now?

If you meant 'progressive' as me being a less narrow-minded or bigoted person than yourself then i'm guilty as charged I suppose. Now, at the risk of being called a twat-basher i'm to tell you to fuck off and don't be so cheeky in future

You confuse "open-minded" with "empty-headed".

This is pretty disgusting. These POW's aren't terrorists. They're soldiers

For whom? Where is their military structure? Who is their leader? Where is the chain of command?

If American troops were treated like this you'd be demanding the soldiers heads on a platter but since it's being done by America it's no bif deal and people are making a huge thing out of something minor.

If American troops were treated like this, I'd be relieved, as they seldom are treated this pleasantly.

All this does is escalate things even more. An eye for an eye won't help anything. This war isn't supposed to be about revenge or humilation it's about ensuring peace for the Western World.

If they're all dead --- it'll be pretty darned peaceful, won't it?

So far we have brutal beatings, rapes, humiliations, etc....

 

Still to come, according to Sec. Rumsfeld - Videos of young boys being raped, beatings nearly to death, rape of female Iraqis, and more descriptive videos and photos...

 

To Marney and Mike, and any other ignorant 'kill em all' people here - Please take an example from some of the embarrasment, responsibility, and class shown by Rumsfeld and others.

 

Rape, beatings, torture etc is NOT simple humiliation, and no matter how hard you try to justify it - Terrorism does not eradicate Terrorism.

Rumsfeld has political considerations for his statements.

 

I do not --- and while I do not pretend to speak for her, I doubt Marney does, either.

nothing changes the fact that they are human. Wether or not you agree with what they do they are still human beings. They're actions make them bad people deserving punishment but not the kind these troops have decided to hand out. Calling them "sub-human monkeys" is stupid. Name calling and posturing doesn't change the fact that they are still people.

The moment you target civilians, you lose that whole "human" label. I've made that clear more than a few times.

-=Mike

[Firestarter 0]

Victor Davis Hanson, writing in the National Review, sums up most of my feelings on this matter. Newt Gingrich, writing in the Wall Street Journal, refutes Hanson's thoughts on the "apologies" so shrilly demanded and so unfortunately given - the only thing he said that I really disagreed with.

 

Perhaps an apology is necessary. But the American people are the ones who deserve it, for being misrepresented and left open to such ridiculous criticism and demagoguery. Not our enemies.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

You guys need to start wearing more Armani. Because Yves Saint Laurent is too French.

[Firestarter 0]

I don't wear much YSL either (apart from that one beaded dress); most of my clothes are Armani or Hugo Boss. Yes, I wear mostly (specially tailored and fitted) men's clothes. No, they don't look masculine on me.

This segment of Marney's Wardrobe (marketing wouldn't let us call it The Closet) is over. We now return you to your regular schedule.

 

 

 

NB. Please see italicised boldface in this post.

[Vyce 0]

So I live here... and I KNOW how ridiculously closed minded and ultra conservative this place is. It's the fucking BIBLE belt. So, believe it or not... alot of the south really IS like that.

 

What REALLY makes me giggle is that you really have absolutely NO idea how hypocritical you're being here.

[teke184 0]

Mike may have covered this earlier, but is anyone aware of the fact that we put down Islamic rebellions in the Phillipines a long time ago through, how should we say, unconventional means?

 

We captured all the terrorists, bathed them in pig blood, then executed all but one of them. We let that guy go back to tell the rest of his buddies what happened. Wouldn't you know it? That cut down on the rebellions there for a LONG time.

 

It's not exactly kosher to do things like that, but sometimes it's effective.

 

 

As for the abuses mentioned, the ones depicted so far don't make me think many sympathetic thoughts. Human pyramids? Whatever. Leashes? Big whoop.

 

The stuff that hasn't been depicted much so far disgusts me, like the Diallo-like sodomy of a few prisoners. (IIRC, Diallo was a Carribean immigrant in NYC who was sodomized with a nightstick by the NYPD and got a multi-million dollar settlement out of it.)

 

The above stuff is mostly chickenshit and the guards shouldn't be doing it, but it also shouldn't cause a huge international incident. The some of the stuff that's been accused is a BIG no-no though and they need to ensure that they cut it out and people doing it are punished.

 

 

And, as I think the point's been made before, about 90% of the Muslim world hates our asses anyway, so this isn't going to make many of them go from being our allies to our enemies. What it will do will be to give some ammunition to Bin Ladin and others when they spew their anti-Western tripe.

 

Christ... Bin Ladin had been using the expulsion of the Moors from Spain in the 1400s as an excuse to bomb Madrid, so it's not like they wouldn't have found something in our past to hate us for BEFORE this.

 

 

 

BTW...

 

Marnie, what city does your aunt live in? I may actually be familiar with it since it's down in my area.

[Guest MikeSC]

You guys need to start wearing more Armani. Because Yves Saint Laurent is too French.

Son, you're lucky I wear clothes at all.

-=Mike

...Trust me

[Dr. Tom 0]

they are fighting for a cause they believe in, wether we approve or not.

Hitler and the Nazis were fighting for a cause they believed in, too. Should we not have fought them?

 

It's precisely that kind of thinking that causes so many problems. That ninny way of thinking leads to terrorists being relabeled as "freedom fighters." No, they're fucking terrorists. They're not soldiers, they're thugs, and except for a few isolated incidents, we have not been treating them like the worthless thugs they are.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

they are fighting for a cause they believe in, wether we approve or not.

Hitler and the Nazis were fighting for a cause they believed in, too. Should we not have fought them?

 

It's precisely that kind of thinking that causes so many problems. That ninny way of thinking leads to terrorists being relabeled as "freedom fighters." No, they're fucking terrorists. They're not soldiers, they're thugs, and except for a few isolated incidents, we have not been treating them like the worthless thugs they are.

That's hardly the same thing. The Nazis were tried, convicted. and hanged at Nuremburg, but they weren't raped by the guards while awating their punishments.

 

I don't see why so many people are defending this when Bush and Rumsfeld themselves are not only pointing out how these actions are disgusting and must be punished, but also bringing to light even more serious charges to light voluntarily with no impetus from the media. Kudos to both of them for having the guts to stand up and call a spade a spade when most of the talking heads want to turn this into some partisan issue and deflect blame.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Exactly what HMW said.

 

I'm indifferent at best to this war and I'm sure if it was Canadains being massacred i'd be screaming for blood as much as anyone but as it is I don't think these prisioners deserve to be treated that way. They haven't been judged yet even.

 

After they're judged and convicted you can cut their heads off and shit down their necks for all I care.

[Cartman 0]

We have some very High-Class Genius on this wrestling message board. I'm in awe, really.

[Guest MikeSC]

That's hardly the same thing. The Nazis were tried, convicted. and hanged at Nuremburg, but they weren't raped by the guards while awating their punishments.

So, the Nuremburg verdict makes them non terrorists or thugs? Scary thought. The Nuremburg trials, for all of the good they may have had, were HORRIBLE in a purely legal sense.

 

Let's leave it at this --- if they happened in an American court, all of the sentences would have been overturned.

 

And who knows what happened to the Nazis in prison? Most likely, they were not treated terribly nicely --- and they SHOULDN'T have been treated nicely.

I don't see why so many people are defending this when Bush and Rumsfeld themselves are not only pointing out how these actions are disgusting and must be punished, but also bringing to light even more serious charges to light voluntarily with no impetus from the media. Kudos to both of them for having the guts to stand up and call a spade a spade when most of the talking heads want to turn this into some partisan issue and deflect blame.

I think most of us who oppose the apology support Bush in punishing troops who violate OUR laws and OUR morals. We take care of our own problems.

 

But we don't owe the int'l community --- who friggin' exploited the Iraqis --- a thing.

We have some very High-Class Genius on this wrestling message board. I'm in awe, really.

Intellect that leaves you in awe hardly seems like a rare thing.

-=Mike

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

That's hardly the same thing. The Nazis were tried, convicted. and hanged at Nuremburg, but they weren't raped by the guards while awating their punishments.

So, the Nuremburg verdict makes them non terrorists or thugs? Scary thought. The Nuremburg trials, for all of the good they may have had, were HORRIBLE in a purely legal sense.

 

Let's leave it at this --- if they happened in an American court, all of the sentences would have been overturned.

 

And who knows what happened to the Nazis in prison? Most likely, they were not treated terribly nicely --- and they SHOULDN'T have been treated nicely.

I was responding only to the first line he posted. I quoted all the stuff about terrorists because I was lazy, that had nothing to do with the Nazi point.

 

Now, there's a big difference between being treated nicely in prison and being abused, raped, and tortured. No one is expecting these prisoners to get treated like they are some white collar criminals or mob snitches doing a stint in Club Fed.

[Dr. Tom 0]

That's hardly the same thing. The Nazis were tried, convicted. and hanged at Nuremburg, but they weren't raped by the guards while awating their punishments.

Peachy. That's also completely irrelevant. The "point" was made that these terrorists are fighting for a cause they believe in, and damn our filthy souls for getting in their way if we disagree with that cause. The Nazis were also fighting for a cause they believed in. THAT is the extent of the comparison. Should we not have interfered with their plans, either?

 

I don't see why so many people are defending this when Bush and Rumsfeld themselves are not only pointing out how these actions are disgusting and must be punished, but also bringing to light even more serious charges to light voluntarily with no impetus from the media.

Because I don't have any sympathy for terrorists. I have no sympathy for worthless rabble to try to kill American soldiers. I have no sympathy for people who murder their daughters because they committed the "crime" of being raped. I have no sympathy for people who let schoolgirls die in a burning building because their ankles would show in public if they were let out. I have only enmity for people like that. The filth we have captured are not soldiers, they're terrorists. And we should throw them in a ditch, pour in the napalm, and find another group to kill. And if some of them get beaten or humiliated along the way, good. Fuck 'em.

 

I am, however, completely opposed to torture under any circumstances. But, so far, I have seen no evidence of actual torture, just humiliation and a few beatings. And after things like September 11th, I just can't find a tear to shed for some piece of shit terrorist who got whacked with a stick a few times.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

The Iraqi prisioners didn't cause 9/11 though. Bin Laden did. It's not right to take out your frustrations on them for that.

 

Try em and hang em but they deserve fair treatment, you expect the same even if you don't get it,

[Styles 0]

The Iraqi prisioners didn't cause 9/11 though. Bin Laden did. It's not right to take out your frustrations on them for that.

"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them."- President George W. Bush.

[Guest MikeSC]

The Iraqi prisioners didn't cause 9/11 though. Bin Laden did. It's not right to take out your frustrations on them for that.

 

Try em and hang em but they deserve fair treatment, you expect the same even if you don't get it,

And until the world learns that there is NO difference between terrorists and those who fund them, we'll never be safe.

-=Mike

[Anorak 0]

If you meant 'progressive' as me being a less narrow-minded or bigoted person than yourself then i'm guilty as charged I suppose. Now, at the risk of being called a twat-basher i'm to tell you to fuck off and don't be so cheeky in future

You confuse "open-minded" with "empty-headed".

If you could only empty your own head of your simple-minded views and prejudicies you might become a better and more worthwhile person, you might even stop sounding like a prick for long enough for people to take your views or opinions seriously on issues like this. There's still time to 'open your mind' and join the real world if you want to, your own little world must be awful small.

[Cartman 0]

If you meant 'progressive' as me being a less narrow-minded or bigoted person than yourself then i'm guilty as charged I suppose. Now, at the risk of being called a twat-basher i'm to tell you to fuck off and don't be so cheeky in future

You confuse "open-minded" with "empty-headed".

If you could only empty your own head of your simple-minded views and prejudicies you might become a better and more worthwhile person, you might even stop sounding like a prick for long enough for people to take your views or opinions seriously on issues like this. There's still time to 'open your mind' and join the real world if you want to, your own little world must be awful small.

Well now your just asking for too much. "Open Mind" and TheMikeSC" are not compatible with one another.

 

It's really disgusting to read the elitist mindset that a few people here have. It's all good though...Eventually, those subhuman monkeys are going to show Americans just how unintelligent they are. The perverbial Shit has yet to really hit the fan in the Mid-East, but it will soon enough. Maybe it will take the loss of thousands more Soldiers to wake you people up and realize there is no way to win a war against Terrorism, and that the terrorists we are looking for are after us because of what we started in the first place.

 

Not to mention the fact that there will never be a democracy in Iraq like some people like to think there will be. Subhuman Monkeys aren't capable of reasonable thought...heh...sounds like some Americans as well.

 

Really sad that we have to have the Ann Coulter/MikeSC/Marney/Limbaugh types that cant see anything else but what the RIGHT tells them to see. As I have always believed, anyone that is more than 70% right or left is a moron.

 

Save the "Cartman is a retard/moron/loser/etc." crap because I know that already. I could never be as smart, or rich, or famous, or popular, as other people on a message board are. No contest.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them."- President George W. Bush.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html Hmm...

 

You're also either with us, or against us, unless you provide enough oil that you're vital to us, in which case you can make exceptions and the President will be closer and more open to you than Colin Powell.

[snuffbox 0]

That's hardly the same thing. The Nazis were tried, convicted. and hanged at Nuremburg, but they weren't raped by the guards while awating their punishments.

Peachy. That's also completely irrelevant. The "point" was made that these terrorists are fighting for a cause they believe in, and damn our filthy souls for getting in their way if we disagree with that cause. The Nazis were also fighting for a cause they believed in. THAT is the extent of the comparison. Should we not have interfered with their plans, either?

 

I don't see why so many people are defending this when Bush and Rumsfeld themselves are not only pointing out how these actions are disgusting and must be punished, but also bringing to light even more serious charges to light voluntarily with no impetus from the media.

Because I don't have any sympathy for terrorists. I have no sympathy for worthless rabble to try to kill American soldiers. I have no sympathy for people who murder their daughters because they committed the "crime" of being raped. I have no sympathy for people who let schoolgirls die in a burning building because their ankles would show in public if they were let out. I have only enmity for people like that. The filth we have captured are not soldiers, they're terrorists. And we should throw them in a ditch, pour in the napalm, and find another group to kill. And if some of them get beaten or humiliated along the way, good. Fuck 'em.

 

I am, however, completely opposed to torture under any circumstances. But, so far, I have seen no evidence of actual torture, just humiliation and a few beatings. And after things like September 11th, I just can't find a tear to shed for some piece of shit terrorist who got whacked with a stick a few times.

Dey tek ur jehbs...

[Guest MikeSC]

If you could only empty your own head of your simple-minded views and prejudicies you might become a better and more worthwhile person,

I'm actually quite worthwhile to people I respect --- and for I don't, I have no desire to be worthwhile.

you might even stop sounding like a prick for long enough for people to take your views or opinions seriously on issues like this.

Wow, that is some hard-core irony.

There's still time to 'open your mind' and join the real world if you want to, your own little world must be awful small.

Sorry, but I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy many years ago --- so I clearly don't fit in your world.

Well now your just asking for too much. "Open Mind" and TheMikeSC" are not compatible with one another.

Curse that whole intellect thing. I know, frightening to you.

It's really disgusting to read the elitist mindset that a few people here have. It's all good though...Eventually, those subhuman monkeys are going to show Americans just how unintelligent they are.

Well, rooting for them, are ye?

 

May they rape your mother first.

 

Just to let you know --- they'd kill YOU if they had the chance. They aren't on YOUR side.

The perverbial Shit has yet to really hit the fan in the Mid-East, but it will soon enough. Maybe it will take the loss of thousands more Soldiers to wake you people up and realize there is no way to win a war against Terrorism, and that the terrorists we are looking for are after us because of what we started in the first place.

Wow, how is life treating you since your balls never dropped during your time in your mother's womb?

Not to mention the fact that there will never be a democracy in Iraq like some people like to think there will be. Subhuman Monkeys aren't capable of reasonable thought...heh...sounds like some Americans as well.

Funny, the only person who believes that Arabs are incapable of it seems to be...you.

 

I just think we're wasting our energy on the useless Iraqis at this point. Help the Iranian students as they seem anxious to actually fight FOR their freedom.

Really sad that we have to have the Ann Coulter/MikeSC/Marney/Limbaugh types that cant see anything else but what the RIGHT tells them to see. As I have always believed, anyone that is more than 70% right or left is a moron.

Wow, a wishy-washy little troll thinks somebody is a moron? Beautiful.

Save the "Cartman is a retard/moron/loser/etc." crap because I know that already. I could never be as smart, or rich, or famous, or popular, as other people on a message board are. No contest.

Cartman, you're not a moron or a loser because you're less intelligent/whatever than those of us on this board.

 

You're a loser and a moron because you're less intelligent than almost anybody on the face of the Earth.

 

But, hey, if the terrorists winning makes you all warm and gooey, then have a blast --- then when your mother is killed for showing her knee in public, you can blame America for that, too.

-=Mike

[Cartman 0]

First of all I haven't even seen my mother since I was 9, thankfully. She would deserve whatever happened to her.

 

Secondly, I dont support terrorists, I just see why they hate us so much.

 

Edit: Oh and thank you for the constant personal attacks. It really shows just how much of a hateful imbicile you really are. Makes me wonder if you really have any integirty at all. Oh well, keep on truckin'.

[Vyce 0]

Good Lord.

 

I turn my back on this thread for just 24 hours, and look who comes crawling in from the dark like a cockroach to infest the discussion: Cartman!

[Guest MikeSC]

First of all I haven't even seen my mother since I was 9, thankfully. She would deserve whatever happened to her.

Well, then apply that to any woman who makes the mistake of being involved with the likes of you. After all, they will let little girls burn to death in a school because they aren't dressed properly --- but hey, WE are the bad guys.

Secondly, I dont support terrorists, I just see why they hate us so much.

Because we're not them. Duh. Do you think for a moment they give a damn if you have any love or respect for them? They'd kill you even faster than they'd kill me.

Edit: Oh and thank you for the constant personal attacks. It really shows just how much of a hateful imbicile you really are. Makes me wonder if you really have any integirty at all. Oh well, keep on truckin'.

Keep wondering. Anybody who supports terrorism isn't worth the contempt I have for them.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

HUGS DAMNIT. We should give them HUGS!

[Guest MikeSC]

HUGS DAMNIT. We should give them HUGS!

Maybe some make-up handjobs, since we were so mean to get in the way of their bombs and all.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

OK -- I'm proposing a new rule.

 

No more whining about "personal attacks." I just read a post where cartman complains about Mike's personal attacks, yet the last two posts from Mr. Cart contained:

 

Well now your just asking for too much. "Open Mind" and TheMikeSC" are not compatible with one another.

 

It's really disgusting to read the elitist mindset that a few people here have.

 

Really sad that we have to have the Ann Coulter/MikeSC/Marney/Limbaugh types that cant see anything else but what the RIGHT tells them to see.

 

It really shows just how much of a hateful imbicile you really are. Makes me wonder if you really have any integirty at all.

 

Oh, and in really important news (forget all this Iraq stuff), cartman, are you keeping your Chiefs franchise for my upcoming NFL pick 'em contest? You should have received a PM by me last week regarding this.

 

-- kkk, who allows people of ALL beliefs in on his contests...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Yes they are. They are not POWs. They are illegal enemy combatants and terrorists.

 

Prisoner of War - a person captured in war; especially : a member of the armed forces of a nation who is taken by the enemy during combat

 

Although, there's not a legal declaration of war from the US. So, maybe that means 'start the probing'

 

No they aren't. Soldiers do not carry out deliberate attacks on civilian targets and soldiers are answerable to a state authority.

 

So, we know who these Iraqis are and what caused them to be put in jail?

 

They're human beings

Incorrect. They are subhuman monkeys.

 

No comment. I think Godwin's been breached, so I won't break it some more.

 

No they don't. They deserve to be treated far, far worse. But, unfortunately, we're too nice to do the right thing.

 

If a man strikes you on the cheek, then kill him dead.. I guess.

[Guest DubWiser]

Just for the sake of conversation, would one be wrong in assuming that "Cancer Marney" will be putting her "textbook perfect set of pearly-whites", "thesis", and "silk pajamas/ralph lauren" on the line and shipping over to Iraq anytime soon?

 

She might actually get in on a little action. You know...help round up some "subhuman pigs", "shoot them, put the next bunch on dog leashes", "shoot them", and "throw them in the emptied mass graves they used to dump other people in and fill it up with the rest of that godforsaken country's human sewage".

 

I'm sure she'd be a welcome addition. With all the fallout/disciplinary action stemming from the abuse incidents, the Service is probably running low on Americans who are FUCKING CRAZY!!!

 

...!

 

 

//neR