An SWF Enhancement Discussion...

[King Cucaracha 0]

Ok. Bear with me.

 

I may be the only one who's having problem with this, but the commentary situation is beginning to drag me down a bit. Just as it did in the JL at times. It's the worst part of my matches. Commentary.

 

Every show has Riley and Comet on commentary. Not a bad thing, as they're a great partnership to write the majority of the time. The trouble is, I regularly find myself going into clichés and overkill with the two. I'm not the funniest guy at the best of times. But I'm finding myself lacking good Riley/Comet materials at points in my match.

 

 

Just my opinion...but...

 

...we have three different T.V shows. I personally wouldn't mind a little shake-up on one of the shows. Let's say we have Riley/Comet on Smarkdown and Lockdown. Then we have Storm. Surely we could form a b-team out of some charismatic ex-wrestler vets? Judge. Ejiro. King. Eel. Annie. Eel. Matheson. Eel. There's a lot of candidates.

 

Heck, even if we had one of the shows feature a 'special guest commentator', depending on who has a show off and wat vets would be good. Like, we could have Card and Comet, Wildchild and Riley...three-way partnerships...it'd shake things up and make things a little more interesting.

 

Again...this may be just me, which is why I wanted everyone to discuss. That and the fact the board would usually be dead for the next 2 days. It's something to think about, even just to get rid of some boredom.

 

So...discuss.

[Dace59 0]

The main problem with Comet and Riley is there is no straight man with these two, because of the characters. It's a problem I had a lot as well man.

 

I can only make so many underhand gay jokes and superhero rip off lines.

But I'm not sure about alternating teams, because it's gonna suck if you forget the team and addapting to a new team is always bad. So random guess people should be kept to a limit really.

 

As for 3 people, we had that in the JL and I'm really glad I didnt have to write for that. It ruins a normal exchange flow. 2 people works time and most work is built around it.

 

Changing the team is probably the best thing. Brining back King would rock, and remind everyone he's still got a stake in the fed. The stuff with him and Comet would work, as King can play a straight and evil heel, while still being open to comedy jokes.

 

I still harken for the old days of King and Axis from when I joined the JL.

 

EDIT:

While we're here, I think a few...articles about the fed might not go amiss. Dont have to be huge or often, just people talking about what they know about.

 

Things to cover:

Psychology in various forms.

Making a balanced moveset.

Working your moves

How to pick a good finisher.

Character ideas/gimmicks.

The balance of stats.

Different wrestling styles in wrestling and how to write them.

The types of basic match ideas and how to build them.

 

And stuff like. People like myself, Flesher and Danny can certainy give a few hundred words of advice on the technical side and other people can cover a range of other things.

 

If anyone would like me to TRY and cover some of these, I'd try to write a tester to see if it's any good.

 

Please let me know.

[the.weej 0]

Topic moved to the community forum, because that's what we have it for.

 

Anyway, on the topic of commentators, I have no issue with chaning them. When I became head booker in February, actually, it was something I had tabled, but I never really got any solid support for. If enough people feel we need to change up Riley and Comet, then that's what we'll do.

 

That said, if we're going to change, I suggest we install totally new commentators, or at least people that are familiar and haven't been on commentary for a while now. I'm thinking King and someone else, personally.

 

As a note, even if the Judge/Annie/Ejiro team in the JL was my idea, and even if it was much more successful than I thought it would be, I'm probably going to frown on a three-man team, because I can't see the idea being very popular. Also, I see alternating teams as a poor idea, simply because it's additional sets of characters that need to learn to utilize in matches, and not EVERYONE is good with commentary. Some people really hate writing it, and having to learn four-six new characters will be a pain in the ass for them.

 

-Z

[Dace59 0]

You're pretty much summed up what I was trying to say Zed.

 

I guess we just need a poll for heel and face commentators and come out with a good team from the vote. We just need a mix of characters that gives of the old straight guy/funny man team or some such.

 

Ok idea, lets start fielding ideas and see if you want some articles too.

[Ace309 0]

No Eel.

 

Seriously.

 

The Eel is the worst commentary character you could throw in there. He's a one-dimensional joke with an accent. It could go wrong on so many levels, and even the slightest ineptitude with commentary makes a totally one-dimensional character suck.

[Justice 0]

Honestly, I might be in the minority here, but I loved the Axis/King/Edwin triumvirate. They balanced incredibly well (Super Vanilla Guy/Super Evil Heel/Super Wacky Face) and they were just fun for me to write.

 

Personally (And take my opinion with a grain of salt), I think the switching of announcers between shows might be a good thing as long as you can get people who are distinctly different, otherwise it's the "Same guy, different T-shirt" syndrome. Personally, when I was writing, I got tired of writing the same guys over and over again and I loved the idea of having mulitple announcers with possibly different personalities because it can open up different ideas and venues in commentary (Which is something that used to help me write; when my commentary was on, my match definitely was, and the more I was able to vary my commentary the easier it was to feel like the match was varied. The problem, though, is finding writable and distinct personalities that everyone knows and remembers.

 

Here are some possibly suggestions with their archtypes:

 

King (Confident, overbearing Jesse-Ventura heel), Annie (Witty Lesbian Face that's prone to wackiness without the gimmicky stuff that Comet brings), Frost (Serious, more tweener-ish color (I suppose the only comparison is Taz, but that's still a bad one there)), Bobby Riley (More whiny, less dominant heel), Axis (Consumate Straight-Man), "Grand Slam" Mark Stevens (Down-to-Earth Face Commentary). Those are just a few choices and ways to write them to make them seem a bit more distinct and fresh, but I'm sure others have some better suggestions...

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

I shudder to contemplate how inebriated you must have been to want to recommend Wildchild to do commentary; half the television audience would be asking, "what did he say?" You'd have to scroll subtitles at the bottom of the screen in order to understand him.

[Golgo 13 0]

I prefer the idea of three sets of announcers, or a different team on one of the shows, just for breaking up the monotony. Yes, it could get confusing, but an "on commentary" heading along with the venue/due date/etc should remedy that well enough.

 

However, aside from the endless superhero and gay jokes, I have no problem with the way things are now, but that's probably because I've only written a handful of matches with Comet and Riley. Chances are I'll be completely sick of the team in a few months.

 

Other than that I absolutely hate three man teams. It's a hinderance to the match, and as Dace said, doesn't flow at all. 80-90% of the time, I would just ignore the third person altogether.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

when I had to do Justice/Rule/Annie ... i always looked at J&R as one working against Annie, who just bitchslapped them around (mostly Ejiro though), and it didn't bother me.

 

It probably would now though, since I don't do script style anymore.

[TheBostonStrangler 0]

The following people would be good:

 

- Chris Wilson (I don't think he's been mentioned yet)

- King

- Mark

- Axis

- Neilsen (also a real wildcard)

- Judge and/or Ejiro

- Mak Francis (He'd be a good face PBP guy, IMO)

- Erek Taylor (good heel wiseass commentator)

[Secret Agent 0]

The problem is just that we have 2 color guys on commentary. I personally like Comet, and switching Bobby up with a heel play by play would be good. You could also switch them both and make the heel color and face play by play. Like Stevens/Riley was. Something comparable to Monsoon/Ventura.

 

Using King or Stevens might conflict with storylines though. Especially Stevens.

[The Ill One 0]

I personally adored the three guy team long as the guys have history or click. Like nothing was better than Justice and Rule with Annie with Ejiro making bitter quips about Judge's shortcomings. Edwin/Axis/King was insanely fun but that just won't due to the storylines that's been done. I'm thinking this-

 

Riley

Axis

 

Judge

Mark

 

Erek

Comet (Could be zany)

 

Justice and Rule

Comet (Judge serving as sensible)

 

Wilson

Axis

NTD

[King Cucaracha 0]

Personally (And take my opinion with a grain of salt), I think the switching of announcers between shows might be a good thing as long as you can get people who are distinctly different, otherwise it's the "Same guy, different T-shirt" syndrome.

 

That'd be my problem too. Eventually, every announce team would begin to get bland. JR and King are now, because they've gone on for too long and turned into caracatures (can't spell OMGDZ~!) of themselves.

 

Having a modification of the team on one show out of three would, as Manson said, break the monotony and probably add a bit of fun. Hence my 'guest' commentator idea to keep Comet/Riley around. I mean, I'd find it fun for example to have a Comet/Todd Royal partnership for a one-off show. A Wildchild/Riley team would be a train-wreck, but humorous at the same time. If I had a show off, you could have Landon/Riley/Comet.

 

And the thing about those partnerships would be their uniqueness. You'd only have to find one set of jokes for them, rather than about two-dozen a month.

 

 

The (minor) problem I see with the commentator switch would be the newbies/last JL bumpees who wouldn't know the history of Frost, Erik and...well...I suppose EVERYONE knows Neilson. But you get my point. All it'd need is for someone to trawl through and give us a brief history lesson, but you couldn't just throw them in. It took me a good month to sort out Justice/Rule/Annie and their respective histories.

[muzz 0]

Mr Galatea and NotJ.

[Justice 0]

I've just realized that everyone has forgotten guy who would do great here.

 

CIA.

 

Excellent face, would be a blast to write.

 

So the list so far is:

 

Faces

Mark: The Gorilla Monsoon of the fed.

Mak: Cocky, wiseass face who has tons of technical knowledge.

CIA: Witty Canadian who has a knack for the wacky

Comet: Over-the-top Superhero act.

Annie: See CIA, substitute 'Lesbian' for 'Canadian'.

 

Heels:

King: Classic Jesse Ventura Heel

Riley: Sneaky, watered-down gay version of Bobby Heenan.

NTD: Utterly insane, whacked out heel. Craziness abound.

Chris Wilson: Maybe more Triple H-like megalomaniac heel.

Ejiro: Much like King, maybe sneakier.

Erek: A combo of most of the above.

 

Wildcards/Tweeners:

Axis: Consumate Straightman.

Frost: More of a serious, straight to business guy. No qualms about critizing anyone about anything. Again, like Taz, but in an Icelandic Hoss sort of way.

Neilsen: Um... Stone Cold anyone?

 

Any I miss? Let's hear some combos...

[the.weej 0]

In talking with Judge, I've drummed up three sets of pairings. I notice that the 'different commentators for different shows' idea is more popular that I anticipated, so here's three I'm a big fan of. Tell me what you think...

 

SMARKDOWN/LOCKDOWN:

Axis & Chris Wilson

(Axis is the most basic commentator personality avaliable, and that makes him appealing in a lot of ways. I'm a very, very strong believer in Wilson coming onto commentary, since his character was just made for it. It's not hard to find history for him, he's distinctive, and having a bland guy like Axis in the chair next to him tempers it perfectly.)

 

SMARKDOWN/LOCKDOWN:

Mak Francis & CIA

(The more I think about Mak as a PBP guy, the more I like it, provided some of the character edges are toned down a bit to make him more appealing for the role. Of course, if Mak is on commentary, his old nemesis CIA has to be there, because they have history and compliment each other perfectly. CIA would be a much, MUCH more simplified, easier to write Cyclone Comet, and that would be helped further by the fact he'd have the colour commentator role. This would, obviously, be a face/face team. Either of these two teams is suitable for Lockdown or Smarkdown.)

 

STORM:

Axis, Divefire and the Suicide King

(This is the team that's probably going to draw some questions, but I'll explain it as such: Storm is the flagship show, and I think a three man team, although the idea isn't popular, would be useful to identify it from the others and give it a more 'special' feeling. Axis and King were a functional team in the JL, but Divefire serves to add a little bit more interest to the table and allow a slightly more useable personality to play a face/tweener and stand up to King. He may be old, but he offers a defineable persona that isn't overbearing, and is notedly different from most other characters. King is self-explanitory, but could be replaced with Riley for the sake of familiarity. Axis is reused because I like the idea of having only two real PBP commentators around, and keeping at least one constant between two of three teams. If necessary, he could be replaced by GSMS here, or on both sqads he's on, although that would present a few storyline challanges.)

 

-Z

[Secret Agent 0]

Edwin/Wilson or Comet/Wilson would probably be fun to write. You would have two color guys though, so that would be bad most likely, and writting Edwin might also be quite the task for those involved. I dunno, I'd kind of like Comet to stay as he is fun to write.

 

I'm not sure on Divefire though, Z, and thats most likely because I really don't remember what kind of charater he was other than a former IGNWF Commissioner.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

!!!

 

How fucking long have you been here, anyway?

[Secret Agent 0]

Johnny's been here since about 2 weeks before you, WC. As for the other charater that everyone hates... I started him about 2 weeks after Suicide King, then quit and came back, quit and came back, ect. The funny thing is that I'm just now starting to get anywhere.

[the.weej 0]

The problem with Edwin on commentary is that he's even more of a storyline issue than Mark is. We can't simply bring him back and stick him on commentary, since that goes against everything Edwin did to write the character out of the fed.

 

Divefire was a suggestion, although his character is pretty straightforward. He was a little guy who threw murderdeathkill strikes and wrough flaming ninja death unto all on the way to the world title. He was British, and obvious about it, fairly cocksure, and reasonably intelligent. Other than that, his element is vanilla, which is why he'd be great as a face leaning/tweener commentator who can temper King or Riley's INCREDIBLY boisterous personality.

 

And I don't think most people share your opinon on Comet, Johnny, or at least that's what I gather.

 

-Z

[The Ill One 0]

I think that three man commentary team is insanely delicious, as is Axis/Wilson.

 

 

...You're all going to kill me for this one bbbbuuuutttttt-

 

 

Axis/Comet/NTD

 

Think of Axis as the referee from the two others so the goofiness isn't too bad... while it's possible to write Comet easily with his sanity and wits about. NTD, well, not so much but Comet/NTD is wwwaaayyyyy too fucked up. So throw in Axis, who is ideal on any pairing, and it could work out.

[Toxxic 0]

SMARKDOWN/LOCKDOWN:

Axis & Chris Wilson

 

SMARKDOWN/LOCKDOWN:

Mak Francis & CIA

 

STORM:

Axis, Divefire and the Suicide King

I hate this entire idea.

 

Personally I love writing Comet and Riley, which in my book is a good point for them to stay. Secondly... I know NOTHING about ANY of these people on any of the teams. i don't know their histories (beyond the very very basic). I know nothing about the way they speak. Comet and Riley were easy to get to grips with because you just had to have an OTT Hurricane for Comet, and a gay Bobby Heenan for Riley - commentary gold. If this idea actually goes through then please, PLEASE post links to promos done by these characters, preferably more than one per person. Otherwise I'm going to have to just sit out for at least 6 weeks' worth of shows simply to get a handle on who talks like what.

 

I've written a three-man team once (Toxxic vs Dace Night, Aecas on commentary) and that was OK because I found Aecas easy - he doesn't say much and you either make him scary or random (or more often scarily random or randomly scary). But doing it on a regular show would be VERY hard - I think three-man teams only work if the third guy has an interest in the match.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[Dace59 0]

I agree with you about the 3 man thing Toxxic.

 

Learning some new 2 man teams I can deal with, as long as the markers are prepared to discount commentry for a grace period of a few shows.

But 3 man teams are bad news.

[Ace309 0]

I like your three teams, Zed, but apparently I'm in the minority.

[Dace59 0]

The teams are cool, barring the 3 man one (I'd say drop Axis from it or something.)

 

It'll work, just take adjusting.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

I have no real pull either way as far as the teams go, but the face/face team sounds intriguing as one to write...giving the heels no real commentating support.

 

Writing Chris Wilson = (Y)

[Golgo 13 0]

We had a face/face team in the JL at one point, with Axis and Edwin.

 

...

 

I hated it.

[Guest Suicide King]

Hi guys. I fully support new announce teams with one provision. As IL mentioned, I MAY be involved in a future storyline coming up so I don't think the Suicide King character would be a good choice. That may change though, and if it does I would be happy to throw my name back in the ring.

 

 

And I don't want to speak for Mark, but he is out of town this week and cannot speak for himself. He also may be involved in an upcoming storyline, so I would put his name out of the running until at least Saturday when he could comment on it.

Edited June 23, 2004 by Suicide King

[King Cucaracha 0]

If people don't think the full change is a good idea, what about maybe sticking (for example) Axis in Comet's place one show out of the three (Storm most likely), just to mix things up a touch.

 

Really, that's all that's needed...a complete overhaul would probably cause more problems to more people than a slight change. And to be honest, I probably over-reacted slightly in the first place as to my problems. Plus I totally see Toxxic's problem, and to be honest half the names on that list are slightly alien to me.

 

I'm also against face/face teams. Period.

[Above Average 0]

I could do one of those articles. I rule Flesher and Danny on the technical side of things... and I'm cocky enough to say it, even if it isn't true. I have been known to write a good technical match though, so I can do something on working moves, match construction, selling and overall atmosphere.