Review of Flair's book

[Guest Coffey]

I agree with Ric Flair. I've never really seen the appeal in Cactus Jack either.

[stahl 0]

I disagree with Flairs views on Foley as a worker. Foley was one of those guys who'se looks were deceiving. He looked like a slob, dressed like a slob, but was solid in the ring. Sure he was known for a hardcore brawling style for the most part, but when given the chance he could put on a great match, even with style clashes. Take mindgames as an example. Do you think a "poor" worker with a hardcore background like Sandman could put on a near 5 star match with Michaels? Foley also brought the goods with his feud against Hunter, which MADE him and gave him that main event credibility he was desperately needing at the time. Foley was excellent on the mic, excellent with psychology and could bring it when put in main event matches. He has just as many 4 star matches as other greats and above average workers in the WWE, and he is supposed to be a talentless hack... I don't think so.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

While I wouldn't call him a talentless hack - he's good on the mic and can entertain - from a pure wrestling standpoint, he's got nothing. He made hardcore cool. Some people seem to be ashamed to be a fan of a guy who is known for hardcore, but if he can make a match entertaining, that's all that counts.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I can't wait for that Flair / Foley match to happen.

[Hektik 0]

First of all, let me say that I am a long time Ric Flair fan, but he is really starting to get me mad in his last few years around the wrestling buisness. I am interested in what he has to say on his early years in the buisness but I already know what he will say on the later years. He will say he was the best wrestler in the 80's. He will then say Shawn took some imaginary torch from him to be the best wrestler in the 90's. He will underrate Bret and say Shawn was better and Bret is bitter. Then finish off by saying HHH took the imaginary torch from Shawn to become the best wrestler of the new millenium.

[jester 0]

I can't wait for that Flair / Foley match to happen.

They should make it a retirement match, where the loser stays off TV for nearly five minutes.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Did Flair write it himself, or did he use a ghost writer?

[Guest Trivia247]

imagine Books by Abdullah the Butcher or Terry Funk? there would be like volumes for their history.

 

 

Old Abby started out in 1950's...... and he is still going, bless that ol Planetoid

[The Kid 0]

I've never liked Flair, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thinks that he's a pompous jerkoff.

[The Mandarin 0]

Flair trashes DDP and Scott Steiner later on in the book, among others.

 

Anyways, a very good read (I have one chapter left) and I reccomend it even if you disagree with Flair about what he thinks of Foley (which only runs about two sentences).

[Guest Trivia247]

Flair trashes DDP and Scott Steiner later on in the book, among others.

 

Anyways, a very good read (I have one chapter left) and I reccomend it even if you disagree with Flair about what he thinks of Foley (which only runs about two sentences).

the rest of the foley material is probably in that last chapter or maybe not

[Use Your Illusion 0]

I look forward to watching Foley blow up about this. Foley is a guy who just *cannot* take any form of criticism in any way. I remember he was about to hunt down people who didn't like his second book with a shotgun, or something.

 

Foley>Sting, JAx? You been listening to 'Fall to Pieces' again?

 

UYI

[caboose 0]

Yet another stunning contribution from RVDMARK!

 

As for the Flair/Foley debate, I can see both sides. I can see where Flair is coming from about Foley being untalented, not to say Foley is untalented, because clearly he isn't. At the same time Foley is simply sticking two fingers up at Flair for doubting him much like I'm sure Austin has done on numerous times to Bischoff.

 

At the end of the day, this is a disagreement that pride wont allow a chance to settle.

[haVoc 0]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

[Guest MikeSC]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

Who says he used it as a way to "get back at Bret"?

 

I heard plenty of people say the EXACT SAME THING for years.

-=Mike

...And God knows Bret Hart is in NO position to gripe about somebody working cliched matches...

[The Mandarin 0]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

Who says he used it as a way to "get back at Bret"?

 

I heard plenty of people say the EXACT SAME THING for years.

Yeah.

 

He states that he sympathizes with Bret about the emotion and anger over losing a loved one, but states that he think Bret used his brother's death to continue the war with Vince, which he did. And which I think anybody in the same situation would do.

 

So I don't really see Flair "taking a shot" at him, but Flair does say that he lost respect for him during this time due to Bret making this feud public.

[haVoc 0]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

Who says he used it as a way to "get back at Bret"?

I would love to know if there was more about Bret Hart in this book. His matches with him, etc,. If not, then this was a cheap way to take a shot at him.

 

And Flair shouldn't talk about someone else bringing their personal life and behind the scenes issues into the public eye when he has done the same thing for years.

[Guest MikeSC]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

Who says he used it as a way to "get back at Bret"?

I would love to know if there was more about Bret Hart in this book. His matches with him, etc,. If not, then this was a cheap way to take a shot at him.

 

And Flair shouldn't talk about someone else bringing their personal life and behind the scenes issues into the public eye when he has done the same thing for years.

Flair did it once that I'm aware of --- and that reeked of scripting more than anything else.

 

Bret did use Owen's death as a vehicle to continue his feud with Vince.

-=Mike

[The Mandarin 0]

Unless he mentions Bret in the last 14 pages, there's nothing else said about him. He does say he was a good wrestler, but not a great champion. And then he says something about him not drawing, but it shouldn't be taken to seriously as he also uses the non-draw putdown against Foley, Savage (kinda, he says he wasn't as over after Elizabeth left), Shane Douglas, Jeff Jarrett, Sid, Scott Steiner, and many others.

 

He tears into Sid for cutting that shoot promo in WCW before. Didn't Steiner also cut one on DDP that led to a backstage brawl?

 

Oh, and he says that Sid/Benoit at Souled Out 2000 was a great match.

[haVoc 0]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

Who says he used it as a way to "get back at Bret"?

I would love to know if there was more about Bret Hart in this book. His matches with him, etc,. If not, then this was a cheap way to take a shot at him.

 

And Flair shouldn't talk about someone else bringing their personal life and behind the scenes issues into the public eye when he has done the same thing for years.

Flair did it once that I'm aware of --- and that reeked of scripting more than anything else.

Once? For years he has lashed out in interviews at Bischoff, Dusty and so many others. He's all "Mr. Kayfabe" and how dare we use insider terms when he talks about behind the scene stuff in the public all the time.

[Guest MikeSC]

Amazing this thread became about Foley's ring work when Flair used Owen's death as a way to take a shot at Bret.

 

Flair's a bitter asshole for the Owen Hart comments. Using that as a way to get back at Bret for questioning Flair's work.

Who says he used it as a way to "get back at Bret"?

I would love to know if there was more about Bret Hart in this book. His matches with him, etc,. If not, then this was a cheap way to take a shot at him.

 

And Flair shouldn't talk about someone else bringing their personal life and behind the scenes issues into the public eye when he has done the same thing for years.

Flair did it once that I'm aware of --- and that reeked of scripting more than anything else.

Once? For years he has lashed out in interviews at Bischoff, Dusty and so many others. He's all "Mr. Kayfabe" and how dare we use insider terms when he talks about behind the scene stuff in the public all the time.

When did he ever lash out at Dusty?

-=Mike

[Hektik 0]

Unless he mentions Bret in the last 14 pages, there's nothing else said about him. He does say he was a good wrestler, but not a great champion. And then he says something about him not drawing, but it shouldn't be taken to seriously as he also uses the non-draw putdown against Foley, Savage (kinda, he says he wasn't as over after Elizabeth left), Shane Douglas, Jeff Jarrett, Sid, Scott Steiner, and many others.

 

He tears into Sid for cutting that shoot promo in WCW before. Didn't Steiner also cut one on DDP that led to a backstage brawl?

 

Oh, and he says that Sid/Benoit at Souled Out 2000 was a great match.

What does he say about Shawn? I hope he also says that he was not a draw or else my Flair/Michaels/HHH circle jerk theory may not be far off.

[haVoc 0]

I don't mean TV interviews. Internet, magazines, etc, that get out to the public.

 

BTW, if he believed in kayfabe as much as he says he does, he wouldn't have done this book. But, I guess money changes everything.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Taken directly from RAW magazine,

 

This is the kind of **** I was putting up with - despite the fact that I was on the booking committee. That’s why it pissed me off when Mick Foley blamed me for not recognizing his full potential during that period. In his book, Have A Nice Day, Foley wrote, “Ric Flair was every bit as bad on the booking side of things as he was great on the wrestling side of it.”

 

First of all, I’ll never call myself a great booker, because wrestling always came first. But Foley took a shot at me. Here’s his receipt - I’m taking a shot at him.

 

When I first started on the booking committee, Foley was working as Cactus Jack and doing an angle where he was living in a homeless shelter. I admit it - I didn’t know what to do with a 300-pound guy living in a homeless shelter. It took P.T. Barnum, in the form of Vince McMahon, to take a guy whose claim to fame was his willingness to get thrown off a cage, to turn him into Mankind, and make him into a champion.

 

Foley has a cult following because of his contribution to hardcore wrestling. But hardcore is such a small part of the history of this business. When I was training, falling off a ladder was not a prerequisite to making it as a professional wrestler. Being fundamentally sound was. Occasionally seeing the inside of a gym was. When I trained under Verne Gagne, we started with 500 free squats, 250 push-ups, 250 sit-ups and a two-mile run over farm terrain in zero-degree weather. Then we came back to the barn to be wrestled into submission, cross-faced into submission, stretched into submission - and if Verne didn’t like the way things were going, we’d start all over. He would have looked at Mick Foley on day one - after Mick failed to do even one thing Verne required - and said, “Mick, I don’t think so.”

 

I don’t care how many thumbtacks Mick Foley has fallen on, how many ladders he’s fallen off of, how many continents he’s supposedly bled on, he’ll always be known as a glorified stuntman.

 

Verne Gagne didn’t fall off a ladder. Dory Funk, Jr. didn’t fall off a ladder. Neither did Wahoo, Steamboat, or Steve Austin. Terry Funk was a great worker before he started doing that. Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels, and Chris Jericho can do it and maintain their reputations because they’re already respected as athletes. And what about people who never did anything else, like the Sandman? He’s no wrestler. Hardcore became a niche for a lot of guys who couldn’t do **** -all in the ring.

 

I’m not saying that Mick Foley wasn’t a star, that he wasn’t a great attraction. But in my estimation, Mick Foley was not a great worker. He couldn’t punch. He couldn’t kick. In the World Wrestling Federation, he’d spend half the day before television broadcasts sucking up to the writers - because he’s such a fan of himself.

 

There’s a difference between being a great performer and being a guy - like Brutus Beefcake or the Ultimate Warrior - who became famous because he happened to be working for Vince. It’s the same with Foley. When he hasn’t been working for Vince, there’s been no demand for him whatsoever. He’s just another guy.

 

Mick Foley doesn’t understand what it was like to be on that booking committee. Jim Herd humiliated me and made me cut my hair - after I’d won the NWA championship six times. How much power did I have? When I was going through all that, how should I have been able to look at Mick Foley, push everything else aside, and mold him into a superstar?

 

Sting, on the other hand, was worthy of becoming the champion.

 

Foley>Sting

 

And by taking potshots at Foley's training, he is taking shots at WWE Legend Dominic Denucci. At this point, I wish Mick would've stiffed the old bastard in the ring at Mania.

 

Although this pisses me off severely, I am going to enjoy the hell out of the verbal ass raping Flair gives to Shane Douglas.

 

And, while I am thinking of it, Cactus Clothesline>Flair Flip

The excerpt is great, made better by the fact that when I read it, it sounds like crazy old man Flair cutting a promo in the ring.

[Guest MikeSC]

I don't mean TV interviews. Internet, magazines, etc, that get out to the public.

 

BTW, if he believed in kayfabe as much as he says he does, he wouldn't have done this book. But, I guess money changes everything.

I've, honestly, never heard of Flair going off on Dusty.

-=Mike

[Slickster 0]

BTW, if he believed in kayfabe as much as he says he does, he wouldn't have done this book. But, I guess money changes everything.

Arn Anderson, Lou Thesz, Ted DiBiase....all old-school guys who wrote autobiographies. Just because you don't think fans should call you a 'heel' doesn't mean you can't share your stories with the world.

[The Mandarin 0]

Just finished. Great book that's a summary of an amazing career and has a happy ending. Flair says he's very happy, loves his job, has great kids and can't wait to be a grandfather (even though I'm pretty sure his oldest daughter has given birth since the book was written).

 

What does he say about Shawn?  I hope he also says that he was not a draw or else my Flair/Michaels/HHH circle jerk theory may not be far off.

 

He says Shawn's a great wrestler and a good guy. Michaels and Triple H have been boosting his confidence backstage. Doesn't say anything about Michaels being a draw or not.

 

And Flair absolutely loves the Undertaker. He says he's one of his favourite wrestlers, he can work the crowd, wrestle(!), has one of the best gimmicks, is a phenominal athelete (specifically mentioning the ropewalk of doom), is a big draw and is the most respected man in the locker room.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Taken directly from RAW magazine,

 

This is the kind of **** I was putting up with - despite the fact that I was on the booking committee. That’s why it pissed me off when Mick Foley blamed me for not recognizing his full potential during that period. In his book, Have A Nice Day, Foley wrote, “Ric Flair was every bit as bad on the booking side of things as he was great on the wrestling side of it.”

 

First of all, I’ll never call myself a great booker, because wrestling always came first. But Foley took a shot at me. Here’s his receipt - I’m taking a shot at him.

 

When I first started on the booking committee, Foley was working as Cactus Jack and doing an angle where he was living in a homeless shelter. I admit it - I didn’t know what to do with a 300-pound guy living in a homeless shelter. It took P.T. Barnum, in the form of Vince McMahon, to take a guy whose claim to fame was his willingness to get thrown off a cage, to turn him into Mankind, and make him into a champion.

 

Foley has a cult following because of his contribution to hardcore wrestling. But hardcore is such a small part of the history of this business. When I was training, falling off a ladder was not a prerequisite to making it as a professional wrestler. Being fundamentally sound was. Occasionally seeing the inside of a gym was. When I trained under Verne Gagne, we started with 500 free squats, 250 push-ups, 250 sit-ups and a two-mile run over farm terrain in zero-degree weather. Then we came back to the barn to be wrestled into submission, cross-faced into submission, stretched into submission - and if Verne didn’t like the way things were going, we’d start all over. He would have looked at Mick Foley on day one - after Mick failed to do even one thing Verne required - and said, “Mick, I don’t think so.”

 

I don’t care how many thumbtacks Mick Foley has fallen on, how many ladders he’s fallen off of, how many continents he’s supposedly bled on, he’ll always be known as a glorified stuntman.

 

Verne Gagne didn’t fall off a ladder. Dory Funk, Jr. didn’t fall off a ladder. Neither did Wahoo, Steamboat, or Steve Austin. Terry Funk was a great worker before he started doing that. Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels, and Chris Jericho can do it and maintain their reputations because they’re already respected as athletes. And what about people who never did anything else, like the Sandman? He’s no wrestler. Hardcore became a niche for a lot of guys who couldn’t do **** -all in the ring.

 

I’m not saying that Mick Foley wasn’t a star, that he wasn’t a great attraction. But in my estimation, Mick Foley was not a great worker. He couldn’t punch. He couldn’t kick. In the World Wrestling Federation, he’d spend half the day before television broadcasts sucking up to the writers - because he’s such a fan of himself.

 

There’s a difference between being a great performer and being a guy - like Brutus Beefcake or the Ultimate Warrior - who became famous because he happened to be working for Vince. It’s the same with Foley. When he hasn’t been working for Vince, there’s been no demand for him whatsoever. He’s just another guy.

 

Mick Foley doesn’t understand what it was like to be on that booking committee. Jim Herd humiliated me and made me cut my hair - after I’d won the NWA championship six times. How much power did I have? When I was going through all that, how should I have been able to look at Mick Foley, push everything else aside, and mold him into a superstar?

 

Sting, on the other hand, was worthy of becoming the champion.

 

Foley>Sting

 

And by taking potshots at Foley's training, he is taking shots at WWE Legend Dominic Denucci. At this point, I wish Mick would've stiffed the old bastard in the ring at Mania.

 

Although this pisses me off severely, I am going to enjoy the hell out of the verbal ass raping Flair gives to Shane Douglas.

 

And, while I am thinking of it, Cactus Clothesline>Flair Flip

The excerpt is great, made better by the fact that when I read it, it sounds like crazy old man Flair cutting a promo in the ring.

Hmm...if that's what Flair said (excluding the end part in the quote of course) then I lost a lot of respect for him.

 

First off he makes it sound like Foley came up with the "Lost in Cleveland" skits and really made it seem like he wasn't even paying attention to Foley before becoming a booker. Which raises the question of why would someone who doesn't even pay attention to his fellow wrestlers become a booker?

 

EDIT: Okay maybe he didn't make it seem like Foley came up with the skits, but he didn't seem to care what Foley had done leading up to that with Vader at all, which was some of Foley's best work.

 

Then he bashes Foley as if Foley had no training other than falling off things. He acts like Foley never had to endure hard work outs or live out of his car!

 

Then he goes on to say that Foley can't punch or kick or wrestle a good match?

 

Has Flair ever watched a Foley match in his life? Did he even read "Have a Nice Day" or did someone else point out the quote to him? He seemingly knows nothing about Foley's training or his road to becoming a wrestler. He came off very ignorant.

 

It's one thing if Flair believes that Foley was wrong to say what he said or if he believes that Foley is too much of a hardcore wrestler, but the fact that Flair came off as not even knowing what he was talking about hurts his credibility.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

And Flair absolutely loves the Undertaker. He says he's one of his favourite wrestlers, he can work the crowd, wrestle(!), has one of the best gimmicks, is a phenominal athelete (specifically mentioning the ropewalk of doom), is a big draw and is the most respected man in the locker room.

I love you, Ric. I really do.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Did Flair write it himself, or did he use a ghost writer?

It says "with Keith Elliot Greenberg" on the cover, which pretty much means "this guy wrote the book," and "edited by Mark Madden," which means "prepare for loads of unintentional humor."

 

As with any ghostwritten book, I'm not taking any of this as his actual words, and the Raw magazine piece probably wasn't his actual writing either. I'm sure some of the sentiments are the same, but Foley showed in his second book how ghostwriters go off on stuff.

 

Still, the excerpts presented are, for the most part, influenced by self-important feeling or politics rather than by fact.