Bush doesn't think we can win the War on Terror

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

source

 

When asked "Can we win?" the war on terror, Bush said, "I don't think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are — less acceptable in parts of the world."

 

Well, I could have sworn his campaign was one of optimism, not pessisism. I thought that the Pessismists were on the other side.

 

Bush also does a great job of contradicting himself and his administration:

 

Bush, 12/4/01:

 

"I want you to know that I'm optimistic about the future of the country.  There's no question in my mind we will win the war on terror."

 

Bush, 1/22/02:

 

"But I told the families that I've spoken to, by word and written letter, that this nation is doing the right thing, that we're seeds in history; that we refuse to be shaped by terror; that we will win the war on terror; and the cause of sacrifice is noble and it is just.."

 

Bush, 6/2/02:

 

"We will win the war on terror, and keep us free."

 

Bush, 7/10/02:

 

"We will win the war on terror -- no doubt in my mind -- thanks to the heroism of our fighting troops, and thanks to the patriotism of our people, and thanks to the hard work of government officials here at home."

 

Bush, 11/3/03:

 

"We will win the war on terror, there's not doubt in my mind. We will not rest, we will not tire, until the danger to America and civilization is removed."

 

Bush, 1/21/04:

 

"We will never forget the lessons of September the 11th. We will stay on the offensive. We will win the war on terror, and make sure that America is secure and free."

 

Bush, 1/31/04:

 

"No question, we will win the war on terror by staying on the offensive. This administration and this leadership is committed to making sure that we stay on the offensive against the terrorists."

 

Cheney, 7/2/04:

 

"With the President's leadership, we are fighting and we will win the war on terror."

 

Cheney, 7/16/04:

 

"In the weeks following the terrorist attack on America, people in every part of the country, regardless of party, took pride in the conduct of our President. Since 9/11, he has led a steady, focused, relentless campaign against the enemies who struck America that morning and killed some 3,000 of our fellow citizens. With the President's leadership, we are fighting the war on terror -- and we will win the war on terror."

 

Hmm.. there's more quotes on how the War in Iraq was part of winning the War on Terror, if you want some.

 

I'm sure something changed his point of view. But, we know that he's not a flip-flopper at all.

 

And just my own thoughts.

 

The War on Terror is a war on an action. There has been no criteria for victory in this war. Bush's "make terror less acceptable" idea would be good, if he could show that under his administration, terror has been made less acceptable. That would be a hard case.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I've been saying for years that I hate the whole "War on Terror" rhetoric -- it feels so much like the "War on Poverty" and the "War on Drugs" and look at how well those have turned out.

 

Bet you weren't expecting to hear that -- I apologize.

 

FUCK U COMMIE BUSH IS THE SHIZNIT!

 

Better?...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

It seems anything with the words "War on" doesn't have much of a history of success.

[Slayer 0]

Like TSM's "War on Bad Posters"

[BX 0]

What a god-damned flip-flopper.

[snuffbox 0]

"We cant win"....well, Im certainly proud to be an American.

[Vyce 0]

What's the issue?

 

He's only saying what every liberal on this board has said at one point or another - so you're going to chastise him now for adopting a message YOU have been putting forth since day one?

 

Man, you're just really grasping at straws now.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

"We cant win"....well, Im certainly proud to be an American.

You people are so damn stupid. For starters, the U.S will NEVER be conquered by Al-Qaida or a vague organization that uses terror. You know how we "win" the so called "War on Terror?"

 

- Wipe Islam off the face of the Earth. Harsh? Of course, which is why we can't "win." No one can, will or should do it. The only way we can "win" is stop future attacks from occuring. That's it, that's all we can do. So when Bush says "we can't win the war on terror" that just means that its an unrealistic goal to try and create a world free of radical facism. This doesn't mean you need to start making a prayer rug.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I know it's hard for some to believe, but these people aren't Islamic. That's like saying that the Priests who raped boys were Catholics.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

I know it's hard for some to believe, but these people aren't Islamic. That's like saying that the Priests who raped boys were Catholics.

That's a really bad comparison dude. Tell me those guys chanting to Allah that sliced off Nick Berg's head weren't part of the Islamic faith?

[Guest SP-1]

It depends on which Islam you're talking about. The more Peaceful version? They are not a part of that. Obviously. But there's clearly a sect or two out there with a violent predisposition.

 

I don't generally consider alot of people who purport to be Christians as actual Christians. Because they don't truly have an understanding of what the Bible teaches, or they massively distort it when culture and history clearly lay out a correct interpretation. They also don't display any fruit of a relationship with Jesus Christ. Which, if genuine, WILL begin to show up in how they live.

 

Simply labeling yourself as something does not, in fact, make you that thing.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

What's the issue?

 

He's only saying what every liberal on this board has said at one point or another - so you're going to chastise him now for adopting a message YOU have been putting forth since day one?

 

Man, you're just really grasping at straws now.

The issue is that Bush has went against something that he's been saying for the last 3 years. For being a decisive optimistic leader, he just contradicted himself and he just made a very pessimistic decision.

[Guest SP-1]

Not so much a decision as an observation. And likely a learned one. He's had three years in the thick of this and he's gotten a sense of how difficult it's going to be, as well as all the ramifications of actually "winning" such a thing (wiping Islam, among other things, completely off the planet, which isn't even something that can be considered).

 

I'd rather have a Leader in office that's a realist-optimist than an unrealistic optimist. Otherwise we'd really get in over our heads.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I know it's hard for some to believe, but these people aren't Islamic. That's like saying that the Priests who raped boys were Catholics.

That's a really bad comparison dude. Tell me those guys chanting to Allah that sliced off Nick Berg's head weren't part of the Islamic faith?

SP hit the nail on the head. What I meant was that just because they think they're Muslims, doesn't make them Muslims. They are severely misinterpreting their own faith.

[Guest Paul H.]

There are Christian extrimist right here in america who have terrorists plans.

 

So what does Islam have to do with this?Those extremist are re-inviosining one part of their faith and using it to suit their needs.There are extrimists in everrything don't bring faith in to this.

[Styles 0]

There are Christian extrimist right here in america who have terrorists plans.

 

So what does Islam have to do with this?Those extremist are re-inviosining one part of their faith and using it to suit their needs.There are extrimists in everrything don't bring faith in to this.

It's close minded, fingers in the ear, PC colored glasses views like that will get more of us killed.

We are at war with ISLAMIC FASCISM. You can't leave faith out of it, because "faith" is what is driving these people to kill and be killed. Perverted version of Islam? Of course.

But saying something like "what does Islam have to do with this" is just so brutally stubborn an attempt to be "tolerant" that it misses the point of the issue.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

There are Christian extrimist right here in america who have terrorists plans.

 

So what does Islam have to do with this?Those extremist are re-inviosining one part of their faith and using it to suit their needs.There are extrimists in everrything don't bring faith in to this.

It's close minded, fingers in the ear, PC colored glasses views like that will get more of us killed.

We are at war with ISLAMIC FASCISM. You can't leave faith out of it, because "faith" is what is driving these people to kill and be killed. Perverted version of Islam? Of course.

But saying something like "what does Islam have to do with this" is just so brutally stubborn an attempt to be "tolerant" that it misses the point of the issue.

You're so right. We can play the "word and characterization game" all day or until we all die of terminal wussiness. But the fact of the matter is that in order to win the War on Terror (an unrealstic goal by any means) we would have to wipe out the branches of Islam that SEEK to cause harm to the United States and the civilized western world. Sadly, no matter which way you try and spin it, Islam (at least practiced in the Mid-East) is not cool with the U.S and what we stand for. I will say though that there is MUCH more to this issue than just "oh they think we're the great Satan." Oil, globalism, Israel and morality in general are the supporting cast in the terrorist's Islam driven agenda.

[Guest GreatOne]

He didn't say 'We can't win' btw--hell it's like those Rumsfeld memos from last year which asked if we were winning, just that don't expect a final blowoff match with Al Qaeda, Hamas, Ansar Al-Islam or whoever and the US to emerge victorious in a wild chair-swinging brawl. Sorry libs no controversy here.

 

Besides, the Cold War was fought for what? Over 40 years? Considering that this terrorism--which only in the last couple years have we FINALLY arisen to (I don't consider Clinton tossing a couple scrubs in jail for the first WTC bombing and then being done with it being attentive to terrorism)--enemy is a BIT different beast than the USSR was, and it's just about impossible to adopt a "gloves off" policy god forbid we enrage the PC pro-Europe crowd, it's gonna be a tad bigger struggle.

 

Hell how long was it before we started beating Japan in the Pacific?

 

But Joe Scarborough had the best line here, 'Bush stumbled today, but where was Kerry to jump all over him and ask 'What happened to the party of Ronald Reagan?', he was WINDSURFING.'

[Guest Paul H.]

I'm far from PC Beleive it..but one thing doesn't have to do with the other.Erradicating a certain branch of an entire religion would be harder than killing the terrosits themselves don't you think?Bring them to justice,leave Islam out of this..that's the reason they hate us in the first place not cuz we are "infidels" to them but we don't seperate the war on the Terrorists from the muslims.

 

Fuck the terrorists leave them other dudes alone.They wanna start a Muslim republic do so,but if they harbor killers then we get them..nothing else we can do.

 

This is not commuinism or fascim you guys wann eleimate you guys are talking about a particular belif practice of a major religion,that shit ain't going away.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

I'm far from PC Beleive it..but one thing doesn't have to do with the other.Erradicating a certain branch of an entire religion would be harder than killing the terrosits themselves don't you think?Bring them to justice,leave Islam out of this..that's the reason they hate us in the first place not cuz we are "infidels" to them but we don't seperate the war on the Terrorists from the muslims.

 

Fuck the terrorists leave them other dudes alone.They wanna start a Muslim republic do so,but if they harbor killers then we get them..nothing else we can do.

 

This is not commuinism or fascim you guys wann eleimate you guys are talking about a particular belif practice of a major religion,that shit ain't going away.

I disagree somewhat on your final point. I can't believe these terrorists are getting away with so much as they hide behind the banner of religion. We had a thread about this last week(?) where we argued that Communism and Facism were essentially religions that just replaced God and a book with state supremacy, rigid moral standards and a dictator. There really is no difference, fanaticism and a search for purity always leads to evil. Don't be fooled because the hammer and sickle and swasitkas are no more, facism and communism are alive and well today.

 

 

I'm far from PC  Beleive it..but one thing doesn't have to do with the other.Erradicating a certain branch of an entire religion would be harder than killing the terrosits themselves don't you think?

 

Agreed. Which is why the War on Terror is an impossible task because these Mid-East countries are pumping out babies everyday who are going to be brought up to hate America and the west. Its in their culture, teachings and religion. You can't stop hatred and intolerance. Turning Japan from facist empire into our Nintendo and Honda making friends was a once in a lifetime miracle. The odds of turning Iraq or any other one of those Mid-East countries into American loving Big Mac eating pals is highly unlikely.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Am I the only person who feels more comfortable that Bush seems to understand now that you can't "win" here? He seemed to steaming along with the idea that he could somehow wipe out every anti-American faction ever, and doing that only causes more anti-American thought globally.

 

You can't catch every guy with a bomb strapped to his chest. You can't stop every guy with fertilizer and a Ryder truck who puts the two together in a parking lot.

[NoCalMike 0]

Am I the only person who feels more comfortable that Bush seems to understand now that you can't "win" here? He seemed to steaming along with the idea that he could somehow wipe out every anti-American faction ever, and doing that only causes more anti-American thought globally.

 

You can't catch every guy with a bomb strapped to his chest. You can't stop every guy with fertilizer and a Ryder truck who puts the two together in a parking lot.

FLIP FLOPPER 2004~!LOL.....

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Am I the only person who feels more comfortable that Bush seems to understand now that you can't "win" here?

Um, Jobber, you realize you're siding with me on this one? (I'm not "more comfortable" but it's about god-damn time Bush said something like this...)

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Oh shit, now I've bought Patriotic Ketchup and a subscription to the Weekly Standard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Get National Review -- it's a better magazine...

[Guest MikeSC]

Get National Review -- it's a better magazine...

Word.

 

And their website rocks.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

BTW, just to clarify, this is what Bush ACTUALLY said:

 

"I don't think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world –- let's put it that way. I have a two pronged strategy. On the one hand is to find them before they hurt us, and that's necessary. I’m telling you it's necessary. The country must never yield, must never show weakness [and] must continue to lead. To find al-Qaida affiliates who are hiding around the world and … harm us and bring ‘em to justice –- we're doing a good job of it. I mean we are dismantling the al-Qaidaas we knew it. The long-term strategy is to spread freedom and liberty, and that's really kind of an interesting debate. You know there's some who say well, ‘You know certain people can't self govern and accept, you know, a former democracy.’ I just strongly disagree with that. I believe that democracy can take hold in parts of the world that are now non-democratic and I think it's necessary in order to defeat the ideologies of hate. History has shown that it can work, that spreading liberty does work. After all, Japan is our close ally and my dad fought against the Japanese. Prime Minister Koizumi, is one of the closest collaborators I have in working to make the world a more peaceful place.”

 

I know Rob wasn't INTENTIONALLY quoting him without context --- OK, he probably was --- but a more clear discussion of what was said would be nice.

-=Mike

[Highland 0]

It was the truth, but the wrong time to speak it, politically.

[Guest PlatinumBoy]

Being conservative myself--it's true, you can't kill/eliminate every terrorist, just like you can't get rid of every Nazi, criminal, facist, communist extremist, etc. etc. However, we can "win" the war on terror by eliminating most of the terrorists, giving the middle east more education, etc. etc. But as many said above, there won't be some final battle in the desert and a big surrender.

 

Also, it's obvious here that our enemy isn't Islam--but radical, fundamentalist Islam. I'm Catholic, and again as said above--some of us fundamentalist, crazy Catholics and Christians haven't exactly done the best things ever, same with every religion and ideal and belief.

[2GOLD 0]

I just don't get it.

 

He says we can win the war, he's unrealistic and just beating his chest according to some.

Then after three years he says we can't win the war so now he has no optimism and some (not here, but I've seen it) claim he is turning on the troops and they now died for nothing.

 

I wish some would just admit that if Bush personally cured cancer and AIDS they would still hate his guts.

 

And honestly, WE (as in America) cannot win the war cause part of the world is like we were a few years before 9-11. They are still running around with their fingers in ears pretending none of this is happening and terrorism doesn't effect them or they are making uber cash off it and don't want to stop it.