geniusMoment 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 Judging by the number of pages in this thread I guess we all can see what the real world series was to most smartmarks, actually I agree, after the Yankees-Red Sox almost anything is a let down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 As for Bellhorn, Al already touched on that. He isn't a terrible hitter. He had a decent season this year and has had good seasons in the past. If he cut down on the strikeouts, he would be a really good hitter. Even then, there are a lot of really good players that struck out a lot. Of course, those really good baseball players that struck out alot tended to bring SOMETHING else to the table. You can kind of accept it if he's a big power hitter, bringing in 40 homeruns a year. Striking out 175 times and only getting 17 homeruns out of it is absurd, no matter how many times the guy walks. It simply does not matter how many times a player strikes out. A strikeout is no different than any other out. Teams that have high totals of strikeouts are no less capable of scoring runs, and teams that don't strikeout are no more likely to score runs. On Base Percentage measures two events, success (reaching base), and failure (making an out). Among second basemen, Mark Bellhorn made less outs than all but one second baseman in the majors (Mark Loretta). It doesn't matter what KIND of outs they are when he does make them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 That was a pretty damn good Game 1. Ok, Boston has 1 win... they can't get cocky though. They need 2 wins heading to St. Louis. Now we have Schilling on the mound tonight, Jesus tendon and all. God, I hope he can hold up.... And Hartfan... it's 3 more wins baby! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruiser Chong 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 Personally, while St. Louis was by no means perfect and they wound up on the short end of the stick, I thought they looked like the better team. For a while, it was looking like it was going to be a blowout, but the Cards chipped away at it, tying it up on two occassions. To me, there were too many things the Sox did that they got away with this time, but are going to get burnt on if they don't fix them up stat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OSIcon Report post Posted October 24, 2004 Of course, those really good baseball players that struck out alot tended to bring SOMETHING else to the table. You can kind of accept it if he's a big power hitter, bringing in 40 homeruns a year. Striking out 175 times and only getting 17 homeruns out of it is absurd, no matter how many times the guy walks. You left out my next sentence which said that nobody is claiming that he is an all-star or anything, but aside from the strikeouts, he has good numbers. He had an okay average, a good OBP, a decent amount of RBI's (considering he bats in front of two guys with 100+ RBI's), and a lot of walks. You don't need to have 40 homeruns or whatever to be a positive factor on your team. Obviously, we view the game differently. Not every player on a team can be an all-star. Of course, that is putting the Yankees aside. The key is if every player brings *something* to the table to help their team, whether it is driving runners in, getting on base, or even being solid defensively. You clearly view things as a Yankee fan. If a player isn't putting up above average numbers in all categories, he's no good. You said that those who strike out tend ot bring something else to the table. Well, Bellhorn does. He gets on base a whole lot, which allows the RBI guys (Manny and Ortiz) to drive him in. In the ALCS, we saw what happens when the top of the order doesn't get on. Manny still hit over .300, but he rarely had anyone on in scoring position to drive in. Bellhorn's high OBP DOES contribute to the team. He DOES bring something to the table for them. It simply does not matter how many times a player strikes out. A strikeout is no different than any other out. Teams that have high totals of strikeouts are no less capable of scoring runs, and teams that don't strikeout are no more likely to score runs. On Base Percentage measures two events, success (reaching base), and failure (making an out). Among second basemen, Mark Bellhorn made less outs than all but one second baseman in the majors (Mark Loretta). It doesn't matter what KIND of outs they are when he does make them. Strikeouts are given way too much emphasize. Who was more productive? A guy who grounded into 15 double plays or a player who struck out 15 times with a man on first? It really doesn't matter as much as some people make it out to matter. The only argument that can be made is that instead of striking out, he'd be better off putting the ball in the play sometimes to move a runner over. Without really breaking down the numbers though, strikeouts are the same as any other out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 24, 2004 The only argument that can be made is that instead of striking out, he'd be better off putting the ball in the play sometimes to move a runner over. And I happen to think that that is a legitimate argument. I'm not one of those "He must try to ground to the right side of the infield if a runner is on second" productive out guys, but yeah, I think that generally, if you have made an out and did absolutely squat to move anyone over or pur your team in a better spot, you fucked up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 The guy couldn't have had a worse OBP if he just put the ball in play when not walking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 You can't say that, though, because if he changed his batting approach to put the ball in play he might not walk as often and could lower his OBP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 That is a good point. But he could try and foul away more pitches, which isn't difficult to do. Eventually he'd put the ball in play. I see your point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man in Blak 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 More Brian Gunn hilarity from The Hardball Times: Why was Tony Womack bunting in the second inning? The Cards got their first two hitters on, Wakefield was looking shaky, and T-Dub was in a hitter's count at 2-1. So what was La Russa's call? Bring on the sac bunt. The Cards ended up scoring their lead run on a sac fly and Joe Buck exclaimed, "That's a National League run at its best." Well, unfortunately the Red Sox just scored four American League runs at their best, and by the end of the night the Cards would need 12 runs to win the game. As Earl Weaver once said, "If you play for one run, that's all you're gonna get." That's all La Russa got, as he settled for a 4-1 deficit heading into the bottom of the second. Yuck. Here's a glimpse of the mood up in New England. A guy I know, big Sox fan, had been in phone contact all game with two of his friends back East. The first called him after the Sox made it 4-0 in the first and said, dead serious, "I think we're gonna sweep 'em." After the Cards tied it 7-7, his buddies called him from Fenway and said, just as seriously, "That's the series." Hilarious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingPK 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 Well to be fair, if the Cards win tonight, people (*coughCartmancough*) will be saying "well, we'll have the ALCS comeback at least." If that guy didn't like sac bunts, he's going to HATE tonight's game. You know that they will put one down at every opportunity with Schilling's ankle being what it is. Is it a good strategy? We'll see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 24, 2004 More Brian Gunn hilarity from The Hardball Times: Why was Tony Womack bunting in the second inning? The Cards got their first two hitters on, Wakefield was looking shaky, and T-Dub was in a hitter's count at 2-1. So what was La Russa's call? Bring on the sac bunt. The Cards ended up scoring their lead run on a sac fly and Joe Buck exclaimed, "That's a National League run at its best." Well, unfortunately the Red Sox just scored four American League runs at their best, and by the end of the night the Cards would need 12 runs to win the game. As Earl Weaver once said, "If you play for one run, that's all you're gonna get." That's all La Russa got, as he settled for a 4-1 deficit heading into the bottom of the second. Yuck. And the great irony will be that they won't bunt once against Schilling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JangoFett4Hire 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 Well to be fair, if the Cards win tonight, people (*coughCartmancough*) will be saying "well, we'll have the ALCS comeback at least." If that guy didn't like sac bunts, he's going to HATE tonight's game. You know that they will put one down at every opportunity with Schilling's ankle being what it is. Is it a good strategy? We'll see. Nah, the series would be 1-1. give Mr. Big Boned at least a 2-1 St Louis edge before he jumps off the Sox bandwagon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GreatOne Report post Posted October 24, 2004 More Brian Gunn hilarity from The Hardball Times: Why was Tony Womack bunting in the second inning? The Cards got their first two hitters on, Wakefield was looking shaky, and T-Dub was in a hitter's count at 2-1. So what was La Russa's call? Bring on the sac bunt. The Cards ended up scoring their lead run on a sac fly and Joe Buck exclaimed, "That's a National League run at its best." Gee I don't know, why did Edmonds bunt with Mueller playing way the hell off third? And if Womack beats it out--which btw he was bunting FOR a hit--bases loaded no out and no one's bitching. You know if someone's gonna harp on the Cards for losing go to the eighth when they had a chance to jump all over Foulke and left the bases loaded with just the tying runs in. You sure it wasn't BILLY Gunn writing this article? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 24, 2004 Live chat tonight.... aim:gochat?roomname=tsmbaseballchat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Marlon Anderson is your Cardinals' DH tonight. .311 career OBP. Its amazing that a team can win 105 games and make the World Series without any kind of hitting depth. Well, there's John Mabry, but apparently he doesn't exist at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 I loved Buck's whole Rolen/Francona spiel. All he needed to complete it was a shot at the Phillies ownership(which would've made it 100x better.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the max 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 I loved Buck's whole Rolen/Francona spiel. All he needed to complete it was a shot at the Phillies ownership(which would've made it 100x better.) It was missing that and a comment like "and then I walked into the media room and they were making out" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Why haven't we seen a bunt yet!?!?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DerangedHermit 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Alright, who the fuck is JLA? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 The Sox are basically taunting the Cards with these errors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Have they bunted on the fat one legged man yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 25, 2004 WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT, EDMONDS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 25, 2004 They need to show a replay of that pop fly. It's hard to believe Edmonds got that bad of a read on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Have they bunted on the fat one legged man yet? Why would the Red Sox bunt on Ray King? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 25, 2004 They need to show a replay of that pop fly. It's hard to believe Edmonds got that bad of a read on it. It's hard to believe that the Best Team in Baseball is this atrocious. I'm waiting for a Pokey Reese grand slam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 The Cards are entirely built on their big three hitters. If those guys don't come through, the Cards have no chance. For the life of me, I don't know why LaRussa isn't doing his usual RLR split in the lineup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 The Cardinals have not shown the ability to win on the road in the playoffs, if they go on to lose this game, they will be 1-6 on the road in the postseason. Don't know how this couldn't be a concern for St. Louis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Was Edmonds jawing with the fans after that catch? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 25, 2004 Donna Summer is still alive? I lost that bet... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
