Kurt Angle was beaten by a TE kid.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

The guy was probably trying to stand out. In retrospect, he probably realizes it wasn't quite a good idea to flirt w/ legit hurting Angle, but at the time he was involved in a "real" match w/ Angle. Since he knows the fans are doing the voting, he figured by looking good against Angle, he'd have a better chance of standing out when compared to the other TE contestants.

 

If he goes in and takes a dive, he comes off looking like a chump to the crowd (as well as looking weak to the WWE). If he puts up a decent fight, the crowd might see him as the person to vote for.

[Adam 0]

^thank you for making a good point. All this BS about 'Pruder is a clown for shooting on Angle' is just that, BS. Angle was acting like a prick, whether it be in storyline of real life. Pruder was screwed out of the pushup comp because Angle wanted to work against a guy he knew he could beat. Kurt should have known better than to have issued a challenge to Pruder. So, a big sucked in to Kurt for taking the gamble and losing, that'll teach you to be a cocky bastard.

 

I can see Pruder winning this comp, and I will definately be voting for him every week. He could play a Shamrock-type gimmick very well, the only difference will be that the fans have now seen that he can fight, and it won't just be 'this guy is a shoot fighter who is dnagerous", he will be a real threat from day 1. Now the fans love the guy, as illustrated by the 'UFC' chant. I'd love to see him win.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Puder probably shouldn't be expected to act professionally because he's not a pro wrestler. But at the same time, it was dumb of him to try to turn a pro wrestling exhibition into a shoot FIGHT. I'm not saying angle would have beat the guy, but I dont think Angle went in there trying to submit him. he just wanted to take him down and pin him. As a result he wasn't defending himself against submissions.

 

As far as Angle acting like a jerk, I'm sure he was told to do that, just like Show was told to shove the kids around. They are trying to show the fans that these guys are being handed a great opportunity and they have to "earn their stripes".

 

As for Puder getting over from this, he might in the sense that he could go ont o win the TE competition. But to think he would get over in a major way just because he got a keylock (which I guarantee 95& of the audience wouldnt know from a padlock) on Angle is really just flat out wrong IMO.

 

I mean Shamrock was a huge UFC star, probably their biggest at the time, and he didn't get over to a huge degree by being "legit". I dont think that holds any water with fans of sorts "entertainment". Just like nobody who goes to see an Ahhhnold movie cares that he's technically not a great actor. If some great actor showed up while ahhnold was on SAY say and "out-acted" him in a skit, I dont think that would make that actor a huge star in Hollywood.

 

Like I said, I can see this playing out well for Puder in terms of winning, but I think to say that one segment was enough to make a star is pretty out there.

[frisco 0]

yeah but the WWE counted him down so a lot of casual fans don't even know he did anything to Angle. Regardless its very likely that if he really went after Angle he won't even be back next week.

Personally I think this entire Tough Enough--and Diva contest--is a work. I'm sure they talked about this before any of it went down. Most likely they were just trying to make the kid look good.

[Guest Saku39]

It's not a work we've known about Puder being on this show for a long time now (in the MMA world) WWE tried to punk out the regular Tuff enough kids and tried it with the wrong trained guy at the wrong time on TV, why even let an MMA guy get into the final 10 at all? It saves face for 'rastlin without having to deal with legit trained athletes on these shows. Puder will win it now like it or not lol.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

As for Puder getting over from this, he might in the sense that he could go ont o win the TE competition. But to think he would get over in a major way just because he got a keylock (which I guarantee 95& of the audience wouldnt know from a padlock) on Angle is really just flat out wrong IMO.

Not necessarily getting over big, but he put up enough of a fight against Angle for the average fan to think "hey, this kid isn't that bad, I might want to see more of him." Now he's able to distinguish himself as "guy who did well against Angle" as opposed to "TE Muscle-Head #4".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If the WWE wanted to, the could get Puder over on that keylock. Where they interview him next week and Josh Mathews says "Daniel Puder, you lost to Kurt Angle last week in a wrestling match" and Puder says "Hold on a sec, Josh. I didn't lose to Kurt Angle last week. Had that referee not saved Kurts ass, his arm would have been broken. I'm an Ultimate Fighter, Josh. I said 2 weeks ago that I could break Big Shows arms and legs, and last week I could have broken Kurts. Olympic Gold Medalist or not, a Giant or not, once I get a hold on you, all the Gold Medals in the world, all the size in the world, won't help you." They clearly don't want to, as they've ignored the keylock on every single occasion.

[Exslade ZX 0]

If the WWE wanted to, the could get Puder over on that keylock. Where they interview him next week and Josh Mathews says "Daniel Puder, you lost to Kurt Angle last week in a wrestling match" and Puder says "Hold on a sec, Josh. I didn't lose to Kurt Angle last week. Had that referee not saved Kurts ass, his arm would have been broken. I'm an Ultimate Fighter, Josh. I said 2 weeks ago that I could break Big Shows arms and legs, and last week I could have broken Kurts. Olympic Gold Medalist or not, a Giant or not, once I get a hold on you, all the Gold Medals in the world, all the size in the world, won't help you." They clearly don't want to, as they've ignored the keylock on every single occasion.

Every single occasion? As in...Velocity? Because that's about the only thing that's happened so far, that would have anything to do with that segment on SD.

 

But yea, while that may not be a bad idea, in a way 'how fair would that be'? I mean...Puder is still..only a TE kid, ,so what would he be doing getting an interview? Unless they all were to cut promos again or something, but there's really no way he can have a kind of interview, at least not without all the others having to do one also. Unless Torrie, or the person the next week does like Kurt did, and asks them a question or something..and then he goes on a rant. But other then that, I can't see how he'd get the opportunity.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If the WWE wanted to, the could get Puder over on that keylock.  Where they interview him next week and Josh Mathews says "Daniel Puder, you lost to Kurt Angle last week in a wrestling match" and Puder says "Hold on a sec, Josh.  I didn't lose to Kurt Angle last week.  Had that referee not saved Kurts ass, his arm would have been broken.  I'm an Ultimate Fighter, Josh.  I said 2 weeks ago that I could break Big Shows arms and legs, and last week I could have broken Kurts.  Olympic Gold Medalist or not, a Giant or not, once I get a hold on you, all the Gold Medals in the world, all the size in the world, won't help you." They clearly don't want to, as they've ignored the keylock on every single occasion.

Every single occasion? As in...Velocity? Because that's about the only thing that's happened so far, that would have anything to do with that segment on SD.

 

But yea, while that may not be a bad idea, in a way 'how fair would that be'? I mean...Puder is still..only a TE kid, ,so what would he be doing getting an interview? Unless they all were to cut promos again or something, but there's really no way he can have a kind of interview, at least not without all the others having to do one also. Unless Torrie, or the person the next week does like Kurt did, and asks them a question or something..and then he goes on a rant. But other then that, I can't see how he'd get the opportunity.

Read their Smackdown recap. They brushed it aside.

 

If the objective is to get over a new star, then there is no problem interviewing Puder and singling him out. It's taking advantage of the interest shown last week. But the objective isn't that, so it obviously won't apply.

[Promoter 0]

I don't see what the big deal was(although it was interesting and funny nonetheless). To the untrained eye it would seem the guy got a little "in" on Angle, but got punked in the end. What the wwe would miss in opportunity is developing a character for the guy off this. I guess Angle got a lesson. The wwe screwed up with the TE stuff. They are putting these kids out there to do stuff where it's about popularity and not skill, yet they put them in situations that need pro wrestling skills. The thing is they are not pro wrestlers. With Big Show they are put out there to sell the slam without any real training it seems. Besides how is showing them getting slammed by Show and showing fear in promos going to help them. It's like the TE segments are being used to get Kurt Angle and Big Show more over than anything. It's funny with Kurt Angle though. He was reaming them for not earning this opportunity and he should be one to talk with how he fast tracked to the wwe without going through the ringer like the real vets such as Austin or even HHH. Come to think of it Big Show had things handed to him as well in wcw with the big gold belt upon arrival. I wonder how Kurt would have done if he was put in some of the positions of old school wrestlers who had to prepare for such things and didn't have all the matches prepackaged like it is today. Hell, even as early as the early 80's. At least it has people talking in a good way and not all the negativity that the Diva Search created. It at least has potential to make the company money if everything goes down well. I would have loved to see Kurt Angle in there with that guy who lied about his age. He seemed real intense.

[Guest Deft]

Puder Bio

http://www.insidefighting.com/betweenRound...p.aspx?uid=1056

[Guest wayzing]

It's funny with Kurt Angle though. He was reaming them for not earning this opportunity and he should be one to talk with how he fast tracked to the wwe without going through the ringer like the real vets such as Austin or even HHH. Come to think of it Big Show had things handed to him as well in wcw with the big gold belt upon arrival.

No matter how planned or unplanned what went down in the ring was, the things Kurt Angle said was being said by the WWE Smackdown character Kurt Angle and shouldn't be held against Kurt Angle the person.

 

Smackdown and RAW will always be worked and if the fight was scriptless I can't imagine it was more than a piece of clumsy planning due to bookers believing in the "Angle can't be taken hype" so they didn't bother to think of the possibility of him getting upstaged.

 

I wonder how Kurt would have done if he was put in some of the positions of old school wrestlers who had to prepare for such things and didn't have all the matches prepackaged like it is today. Hell, even as early as the early 80's.

I think he would've done well considering he was a reigning Olympic champion at the time of his debut and has a reputation for being insanely dedicated to whatever he tries to do.

[benoit4hor 0]

I so wish Puder was the TE kid Bob Holly smacked around.

[Angelus 0]

Have you read Hyatte view on this Angle was beaten by Pruder ?

 

Look, anyone who HONESTLY believes that the WWE dropped a HUGE money angle by blowing off this silly Daniel Puder/Kurt Angle confrontation simply... SIMPLY needs to stop taking David Meltzer as the gospel... and get out of your fucking houses... and get a fucking clue.

 

There are so many things WRONG with this NON-controversy... I... I... I don't know where to even begin.

 

-Shoot Fighting... the MMA boards are currently LIT UP with people (and probably, if its anything like the typical wrestling boards, 15 people making 2000 posts a day) screaming that Daniel Puder almost handed Kurt Angle his ASS in the ring and EMBARRASSING Angle into ALMOST tapping with something (that no one heard of before Meltzer named it and pointed out that it was a real submission move so now everyone acts like they are experts), called the "Keylock". Oh... Angle would have been SCHOOLED they scream!

 

Kurt Angle, with a broken neck, won an Olympic gold medal. No 150 pound "shoot" fighter is going to take him to school. Kurt Angle FORGOT more ways to get out of that move than any of you imbeciles, than any "shoot fighter" could ever dream of. Kurt Angle has a hunk of gold... two hunks, in fact... around his neck that says that only a precious few people in THE WORLD can go toe up with him on the mat... for real. You really think a KID... a SKINNY kid like Daniel Puder could've REALLY shown him up if the ref didn't kill this quick? In fact, might it be REASONABLE to suggest that the only fuck-up here was that Puder was too excited to be in the ring with Kurt to remember to get both his shoulders down for the quick pin?

 

-This could be a HUGE money making story!

 

Why? Why the FUCK are you listening to Dave Meltzer when the facts are this: How many hard-core shoot fans do you think there are? These shoot fighting PPV cards barely exist anymore... why? BECAUSE NO ONE BOUGYT THE PPVS!! Oh, sure... shoot FANS say that they don'rt run cards because no town will insure it... because it's too DANGEROUS... well, yeah, that's a small reason... but a BIG reason is that shoot fighting is BORING to the mainstream... and AWKWARD... and ENDLESS. If it made money, promoters would move heaven and earth to get shoot fighting in their buildings and on TV... but shoot fighting is like wrestling WITHOUT the excitement... it caters to an EXTREMELY small crowd... one that can't support it financially. The news of Angle vs Puder would attract a non-profitable amount of new fans for a very brief period... who then would walk away pissing all over Puder for selling out. Mainstream media would completely ignore it... and someone would end up getting hurt for real, leaving the company hurting. No one wins

 

-Meltzer says they blew it! Meltzer knows ALL!

 

Meltzer knows a lot. Meltzer is also a fuckhead. Dave Meltzer is too insular with his cultural thinking. That's the problem with these big time dirt sheet and IWC writers... all they do is think wrestling, wrestling, wrestling day and night. They are so consumed with putting together their 35'000 word newsletters (without ever investing in spellcheck) that they never look at things logically. The WWE has MUCH bigger aspirations! They have WAAAAY bigger fish to fry than grabbing a bunch of shoot fighting fans who wouldn't contribute more than a few bucks to the product.

 

-Puder's gonna get screwed over now and will never win.

 

Then it's his own fucking fault. He should have remembered that there was some serious money ijn this for him. Now, because her tried to get cute with a professional (and anyone who REALLY thinks that Puder went "instictive", as if he was some animal and not a rational thinking human being, might as well go shoot himself in the face now because the planet is better off without you), he's gonna get booted. He wouldn't like it there anyway.... because the boys in the locker room will NOT let him get away with this bullshit. Let him "shoot" on the Big Show... let's see how bad ass he is then.

 

He's pretty right no ? Come on .. I'm sure casual people haven't notice the thing on tv

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Look, anyone who HONESTLY believes that the WWE dropped a HUGE money angle by blowing off this silly Daniel Puder/Kurt Angle confrontation simply... SIMPLY needs to stop taking David Meltzer as the gospel... and get out of your fucking houses... and get a fucking clue.

 

I think Meltzer is off his rocker on numerous things. Including this for the most part... for the most part. I think there was an opportunity here that the WWE refused to capitalize on; an angle that could have been unique and profitable.

 

-Shoot Fighting... the MMA boards are currently LIT UP with people (and probably, if its anything like the typical wrestling boards, 15 people making 2000 posts a day) screaming that Daniel Puder almost handed Kurt Angle his ASS in the ring and EMBARRASSING Angle into ALMOST tapping with something (that no one heard of before Meltzer named it and pointed out that it was a real submission move so now everyone acts like they are experts), called the "Keylock". Oh... Angle would have been SCHOOLED they scream!

 

I heard of it, I've applied it, and Meltzer didn't name it - Tazz did, at least at the time he did. And MMA messageboards weren't the only one "lit up" - this board was (5 pages), DVD was. Those are the only boards I post at, but they are both "wrestling boards" that reflected a certain interest in this.

 

Kurt Angle, with a broken neck, won an Olympic gold medal. No 150 pound "shoot" fighter is going to take him to school.

 

Puder weighs more than Angle. At least, going by their respective bios.

 

Kurt Angle FORGOT more ways to get out of that move than any of you imbeciles, than any "shoot fighter" could ever dream of. Kurt Angle has a hunk of gold... two hunks, in fact... around his neck that says that only a precious few people in THE WORLD can go toe up with him on the mat... for real.

 

Hmm, tell Kevin Jackson that. Tell Frank Shamrock (Who Puder trained with) that. Different breeds. There was a simple way of getting out of that - Matt Hughes did it against Georges St. Pierre 2 weeks earlier - and Angle was in the position to do that: He just had to roll. His feet were free, he just had to roll. He didn't.

 

Why?

 

It's real. It's different. Fans have already responded to Puder. Why ignore it?

 

Why the FUCK are you listening to Dave Meltzer when the facts are this: How many hard-core shoot fans do you think there are? These shoot fighting PPV cards barely exist anymore... why? They barely exist? Then those dozen PPV's I purchased this year were what?? BECAUSE NO ONE BOUGYT THE PPVS!! I've bought more PPV's this year for MMA than I have WWE PPVs _In_My_Whole_Life_. UFC and PRIDE are not on TV, of course there will be a limited market. Oh, sure... shoot FANS say that they don'rt run cards because no town will insure it... because it's too DANGEROUS... well, yeah, that's a small reason... but a BIG reason is that shoot fighting is BORING to the mainstream... and AWKWARD... and ENDLESS. This is ignorant. Whatta goof.If it made money, promoters would move heaven and earth to get shoot fighting in their buildings and on TV... Vince has considered it. He considered it this year. Lewis/Lesnar? but shoot fighting is like wrestling WITHOUT the excitement... Then why can I list off numerous cards I've seen this year that were better than WM XX? it caters to an EXTREMELY small crowd... Funny, PRIDE seems to draw well. one that can't support it financially. The news of Angle vs Puder would attract a non-profitable amount of new fans for a very brief period... The fans were chanting "UFC", obviously it wouldn't attract just MMA fans. who then would walk away pissing all over Puder for selling out. Mainstream media would completely ignore it... and someone would end up getting hurt for real, leaving the company hurting. No one wins Cause in Wrestling no one gets hurt...

 

-Meltzer says they blew it! Meltzer knows ALL!

 

Meltzer knows a lot. Meltzer is also a fuckhead. Dave Meltzer is too insular with his cultural thinking. That's the problem with these big time dirt sheet and IWC writers... all they do is think wrestling, wrestling, wrestling day and night. They are so consumed with putting together their 35'000 word newsletters (without ever investing in spellcheck) that they never look at things logically.

 

I think Meltz is high on a lot of things, specifically all things related to Ric Flair, I wouldn't say he "never" looks at things logically.

 

The WWE has MUCH bigger aspirations! They have WAAAAY bigger fish to fry than grabbing a bunch of shoot fighting fans who wouldn't contribute more than a few bucks to the product.

 

Exactly! Their aspire to be full of fake gimmicks! Baby-killers!

 

-Puder's gonna get screwed over now and will never win.

 

Has anyone said this?

 

Then it's his own fucking fault. He should have remembered that there was some serious money ijn this for him. Now, because her tried to get cute with a professional (and anyone who REALLY thinks that Puder went "instictive", as if he was some animal and not a rational thinking human being, might as well go shoot himself in the face now because the planet is better off without you), he's gonna get booted. He wouldn't like it there anyway.... because the boys in the locker room will NOT let him get away with this bullshit. Let him "shoot" on the Big Show... let's see how bad ass he is then.

 

Didn't Angle break that other dudes ribs? Pro-fes-sion-al? I wouldn't mind seeing Puder/Show - Let's see how he takes some leg kicks

[Promoter 0]

It goes back to what I said. In the real world what is the big deal? Angle still looked like he schooled the guy. Perception is a big thing in wrestling. I agree Meltzer is wrong here. Now if they want to run an angle with UFC that is a different story, but as stated the UFC fanbase would think the company sold out. I bet UFC would make tons more money doing that than what they are doing now though. I think the wwe does need something of this nature to bring back fans. In the 80's Mr. T(tv tough guy) was a hook with Hogan. In the 90's Mike Tyson was a hook with Austin. I think Vince Mcmahon had the right idea with the Lewis/Lesnar and Angle/Moore stuff for Mania 19. That is something out of the ordinary that the mainstream would pick up.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It goes back to what I said. In the real world what is the big deal? Angle still looked like he schooled the guy. Perception is a big thing in wrestling.

 

Perception is a big thing - which is why they could have built this up, they didn't. They could have shifted the perception from "Angle pinned Puder", to "Puder had Angle's arm trapped and could have broken it had the refs not stepped in". The first angle -the way they did it- you get nothing. It ends there. The second angle, they could have blown it up to something significant. The real issue is them being handed something and throwing it away simply because they didn't plan on it. Meltzer *is* right, in that regard. I just think he over-estimates the size, and over-states the MMA board influence/"water cooler talk" (and understates the Wrestling Board water cooler talk).

[Promoter 0]

You got a point, but remember there is supposedly a "voting competition" going on here and assuming they are not trying to rig this some contestants might see pushing Puder is playing favouritism or that the wwe has chosen who they wanted already. To the fans who actually really care about this whole TE thing it may come off that way as well. Of course, this is assuming the wwe wants to be really legit with this contest and have fans actually believe their votes count. I suppose if Puder wins he has a ready made angle right off the bat which we know they won't use. I mean they had the angle with Holly being a prick and never used it.

 

Sidenote, there is a point about Kurt Angle's wwe character talking and not Kurt Angle. That in itself is another problem I have about today's wwe. It's missing the shoot element in interviews that use to get people's attention. The shades of gray in other words in blurring the smark and mark lines. That's why Triple H's promo last week was interesting because do we know for sure that he was just in character or was that really HHH saying what he really believes.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The competitive aspects of Tough Enough have been negated by their past actions. They've already signed one of the guys who got cut and showed it in their first segment. They hired one of the failed DIVA contestants. Josh Mathews and Chris Nowinski weren't "tough enough", yet they were given jobs. Clearly, this is not about competition - the objective is to create superstars. They had an opportunity here.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I read a few sentences of that Hyatte crap, and he just comes off as a whiny, loudmouthed dumbass who has NO clue as to what he's talking about.

 

As soon as he said that Angle has forgotten more ways to get out of that showed that he CLEARLY didn't know what the fuck he was talking about, and that's the point at which I stopped reading.

 

Hyatte, from what I've seen, seems to be the "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT JUST CHANGE THE CHANNEL" kinds of people to the extreme. Okay I lied, I have never bothered reading any of his other stuff, and after this I'm glad. He comes off that way in this article though, willing to defend a WWE star even though he is so clearly in the wrong.

[benoit4hor 0]

Here's a post about it from a Guns N Roses message board. It must have made some sort of news outside Wrestling.

 

Guns N Roses

 

It's kinda funny to read what non-fans say about this sort of thing.

[Guest Brian]

If the WWE drops him, which I assume they will, UFC better run with him.