Heavy Metal and subgenre description

[Nighthawk 0]

You got one of three, Tack, and it was the one I would have expected from you. "The Edge of Heaven" was Candlemass, "Crickets Sing for Anamaria" is an Emma Bunton song and "Amir of the Desert" was by Coal Chamber.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Coal Chamber should never be mentioned, even to make a comment like that, IDRM, in a thread like this.

 

So hey, kids, here's some metalcore recs for the few people that have no idea what it is (all two of you):

Bleeding Through - This Is Love, This Is Murderous

Shadows Fall - The Art of Balance

Pro-Pain - Round 6

God Forbid - Gone Forever

[SinToxic 0]

Really, what the fuck does this even mean? If I don't like On Thorns I Lay, I'm not going to subject myself to them in the hopes of finding that elusive something that will gain my acceptance.

 

Ok, I'll be all hostile to for no real reason, except that I'm right on the mark with all my posts in this thread so far.

 

Stick to the shit that you have a half decent grasp on.

It's actually pretty easy to understand. I recommended a particular album which you probably didnt hear by them, and then I clearly said that their latter albums have gone onto different paths (by abandoning the black/death metal elements) like Ulver, Tiamat and The Gathering have done in the 90's with their music styles respectively. There is no acceptance to gain whatsover, either you heard what I was recommending or you heard something else by them which I wasnt proclaiming to be black metal. I have more than a half decent grasp of the metal music and especially more grasp over the history and style of OTIL than you do.

[Slayer 0]

IDRM gets points for knowing about Candlemass

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

It's actually pretty easy to understand. I recommended a particular album which you probably didnt hear by them, and then I clearly said that their latter albums have gone onto different paths (by abandoning the black/death metal elements) like Ulver, Tiamat and The Gathering have done in the 90's with their music styles respectively.

 

I have heard probably 2 of 3 songs from the band from the following albums:

 

Sounds Of Beautiful Experience

 

Orama

 

Crystal Tears

 

Future Narcotic

 

Angeldust

 

Egocentric

 

From the Furture Narcotic album, I heard probably half the album and from the rest 2 or 3 cuts after a quick soulseek run. If you ask me to characterize the exact nature of all of the stuff I heard, I can't. Over the course of the months since then, they have faded to little more than a memory of a band with overstated orchestration of melancholy and late model doom in the vein of Opeth's later work. Very forgetable, and very not Black Metal. If you want to make a topic for this band, I'm willing to download all the material I can find from them and participate as long as you're willing to keep genre and TSM music folder biases out of it. Like you should have done with this great thread.

 

There is no acceptance to gain whatsover, either you heard what I was recommending or you heard something else by them which I wasnt proclaiming to be black metal.

 

I'm not talking about me gaining any acceptance from you or anyone else RE: this band. I could give a fuck if you approve. I'm talking about them gaining my acceptance as a Black Metal band, and whether they are that or not, along with my acceptance as good music.

 

This band (from what I've heard, which I consider a good enough started course on them as it is) does not get it from me.

 

I have more than a half decent grasp of the metal music and especially more grasp over the history and style of OTIL than you do.e

 

You've shown this knowledge by lashing out at those who have disagreed with you and push this band aside with ease. You might have great knowledge, but you ain't showing me anything here by doing that.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

So hey, kids, here's some metalcore recs for the few people that have no idea what it is (all two of you):

 

Before including this genre in a discussion that mainly resides within the realm of genre and musical conceptualizers, I would wait for a few years to see if MetalCore can gain a long standing influence over several other styles, the way the aforementioned bands and genres have. as it is right now (as Mr. Lazurus knows all to well from me), the genre is little more than a commercial hybrid that is going to have a fairly low shelf life and little impact on Metal, beyond appealing to the teenagers who are rebelling against the midnight curfew and push their plates away from the table because they hate the brussels sprouts.

 

I don't see any upward mobility for the genre as a truly viable and longstanding style, but we'll see if anything can really rise up as a concept leader and bring some good things out of the genre.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Tack, I can guarantee you that the same things were said about thrash bands when the style started. I'm sure many metalheads were going "it'll never last, because it's all about simplicity, and it's too punk, and it's just a bunch of teenagers mad at everybody." And then a thrash band became the highest-selling metal act of all-time...

 

EDIT:

Okay, lemme clarify a little bit more here. Do I think metalcore will go on to make as big of an impact as thrash did? Hell no. I think it'll be lucky to survive another few years, but the fact of the matter is that the more popular, newer metal acts right now play metalcore, and there enough bands within that style to say it's a sub-genre of heavy metal.

 

Because, well, Doom is looked at as a solid sub-genre, and there's never been a Doom band that's had as much of an impact as Thrash, Death, and Black bands have.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I second Corey's notion.

 

Metalcore may or may not have a lasting impact on metal, but at the moment it is a stable and increasingly popular sub-genre. Sadly, it seems only to be the next Nu-Metal as far as the mainstream is concerned.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Tack, I can guarantee you that the same things were said about thrash bands when the style started. I'm sure many metalheads were going "it'll never last, because it's all about simplicity, and it's too punk, and it's just a bunch of teenagers mad at everybody." And then a thrash band became the highest-selling metal act of all-time...

 

Well....it didn't last, unless you count all the speed metal bands and bands that have done reunion cash grabs as a genre lasting. The rest is the same slop that is heaped at all styles of Heavy Metal. This very issue is examined quite thouroughly and correctly within that essay I cited in the first post.

 

Okay, lemme clarify a little bit more here. Do I think metalcore will go on to make as big of an impact as thrash did? Hell no. I think it'll be lucky to survive another few years, but the fact of the matter is that the more popular, newer metal acts right now play metalcore, and there enough bands within that style to say it's a sub-genre of heavy metal.

 

I should also clarify a little more upon my previous post...

 

My point above, along with pretty much everything in the thread from me aswell, should include notions of real quality of music. The problem that Metal(FashionCore, just for you corey)Core, is that the basis isn't something that can last in the sense of being truly meaningful as an instigator of change or positive feeling or thought. It's the aforementioned plate pushers the complain about curfews and whine about how life is so shitty...without actually doing, or advocating, any solution to the angst. The music itself is such a crippling boundary aswell, I mean what can you really do with a genre that is the third times removed bastard child of Death Metal and Grunge? Well, you can jump around and you can mosh, and you can throw a tantrum, but that only works for so long.

 

Such a frighteningly fatalistic worldview.

 

Because, well, Doom is looked at as a solid sub-genre, and there's never been a Doom band that's had as much of an impact as Thrash, Death, and Black bands have.

 

The problem with Doom Metal is addressed in the essay cited above. Doom didn't have the same impact indeed, but that's because the genre collapsed in on itself much faster than many other genres. Unlike a lot of other types, it still actually has room for quality concepts because of this. In it's brief time it did establish itself as a solid and viable world of musical expression.

 

Metalcore may or may not have a lasting impact on metal, but at the moment it is a stable and increasingly popular sub-genre. Sadly, it seems only to be the next Nu-Metal as far as the mainstream is concerned.

 

Well, that's super...but just like every genre of Heavy Metal before it, once it reaches it's 'second generation' after the musically innocent creators(for example: Black Metal 1989 - 1997) take their discharges and move on...what's left if nobody uses the lessons left for them? See my above note to Corey about the double whammy that strangles the MetalCore genre into submission.

[Steviekick 0]

So hey, kids, here's some metalcore recs for the few people that have no idea what it is (all two of you):

 

Before including this genre in a discussion that mainly resides within the realm of genre and musical conceptualizers, I would wait for a few years to see if MetalCore can gain a long standing influence over several other styles, the way the aforementioned bands and genres have. as it is right now (as Mr. Lazurus knows all to well from me), the genre is little more than a commercial hybrid that is going to have a fairly low shelf life and little impact on Metal, beyond appealing to the teenagers who are rebelling against the midnight curfew and push their plates away from the table because they hate the brussels sprouts.

 

I don't see any upward mobility for the genre as a truly viable and longstanding style, but we'll see if anything can really rise up as a concept leader and bring some good things out of the genre.

I kinda agree with that. In five years, metalcore will be a blip on the map, leaving just the bands that had a solid touring history like God Forbid and Shadows Fall around, with people talking about when they still were cool. Kinda like how people treat Nevermore and Overkill. All the crap, like Atreyu and the current incarnation of Killswitch Engage will still be around but no one will care.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

The problem with metalcore, as I see it, is that not enough bands are willing to even make the slightest attempt to write songs incorporating other elements. Shadows Fall brings in some death, thrash, and even some classical elements, whereas a band like Killswitch Engage just rests on its laurels. The few bands that set themselves apart (SF, Bleeding Through, and less than a handful of others) will be the next generation's Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, etc.

 

Already we're seeing a great decline in the quality of metalcore, and it's only been around for 5 years. The emo/screamo bands began writing music with more of a metal influence, like Atreyu, and then they get grouped into the metalcore sub-genre wrongfully, and then there's bands like Avenged Sevenfold, 12 Tribes, and All That Remains that, while they do have some very redeeming qualities (A7X's music, 12T's energy, and ATR's vocal arrangements), the result is lesser than the sum of its parts.

 

I see metal, in general, forming a new sub-genre by the end of the decade, which will then be polluted, raped, and overused within a few years of its existence. The bands that started the style will walk out with a diehard fanbase that stays because the band tries its best to reinvent itself each album, so that no two albums are alike, and they'll continue on.

 

Hell, Susperia could hit it HUGE in the next few months, for all we know, because their latest album, Unlimited, has pretty much the same formula of music as the previous two albums, but the vocals are more accessible because they're cleaner.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

I see metal, in general, forming a new sub-genre by the end of the decade, which will then be polluted, raped, and overused within a few years of its existence. The bands that started the style will walk out with a diehard fanbase that stays because the band tries its best to reinvent itself each album, so that no two albums are alike, and they'll continue on.

 

This really isn't a shocking prediction since it happens with every genre of Heavy Metal (hell, just about any style of music). One thing I would add to this though. The innovators will ultimately see that their creation has been bastardized and commercialized to the point of no return. Once this happens, they will either dissolve their band, or move on to another style of music hoping to cut ties with that style.

 

As far as making sure no two albums are the same...no. Simple as that. Expanding on their ideas and keeping things fresh is ok, but change for the sake of it is a death sentence. I'm sure you don't mean that idea in the extreme sense, but it's a thin line between what works and what doesn't.

 

Hell, Susperia could hit it HUGE in the next few months, for all we know, because their latest album, Unlimited, has pretty much the same formula of music as the previous two albums, but the vocals are more accessible because they're cleaner.

 

If Susperia was from the States, they'd be the next Pantera.

[Guest Nobody]

Lol I think it's funny how Metal has the most "subgenres" out of any other style of music.

 

Personally I don't find too many of these bands that much different from the other with the exception of vocals. Most of them use the same type of instruments, most of them use the same type of drugs, so with most of them you'll get the same type of result with just slightly different effects and tempos and what not.

[Nighthawk 0]

I think there's more subgenres of jazz, actually.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Easily, but Jazz is about 70 years older than metal.

[Black Lushus 0]

well, it could be like rap: shit rap and good rap...that's about it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What the hell am I doing in a metal folder?

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Most of them use the same type of instruments

 

You mean....guitars, bass, and rums?

 

Like most bands these days seem to use?

 

I'm sorry, that's just silly. It's entirely possible to use the exact same instruments and still produce vastly different types of music.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Speed Metal and Thrash:

 

Arguably the first genre to emerge was speed metal, which followed expanded heavy metal structures but used muffled strumming to turn ringing chords into short explosive bursts of bass-intensive sound. This made the music more aesthetically menacing, and for a long time, guaranteed it zero airplay. On the other end of the spectrum, thrash music made less frequent use of muffled chords but took on two forms: metal riffs in punk song structures (Corrosion Of Conformity, Dirty Rotten Imbeciles) and punk riffs in metal song structures (Cryptic Slaughter, dead horse). Speed metal tended to use metal riffs in metal song structures but show the influence of hardcore music in riff texturing, which evoked the sounds of one-chord rhythm riffing, and in general uptempo songwriting and abrupt changes in melodic line within each song. Perhaps the best examples of speed metal were Metallica, Exodus and Slayer; the first two were based around muffled-chord player, while the latter focused on playing quick fluid phrases known for their complexity, and using introductory sequences of riffs like a progressive band in simple, aggressive form.....click above for more

 

I don't recommend nothin from this genre, due to general lack of knowledge

Please allow me to do so? Though most of these should come as no shock.

 

Slayer - Reign In Blood

The definitive thrash metal album. 33 minutes of pure, uncompromising speed and shock that still remains unmatched to this day.

 

Metallica - Master of Puppets

Technical mastery with the speed of hardcore punk, and enough melody to keep even non-metalheads listening after nearly 20 years.

 

Megadeth - Rust In Peace

Megadeth's best album, and the best album of any of the "Big 5" in the 1990's.

 

Anthrax - Fistful of Metal

I've never really been an Anthrax fan, but they've always seemed to represent the more "punk" side of thrash metal, so check it out.

 

Exodus - Bonded By Blood

A fun listen. That's all I can really say. Exodus' lyrics have always been terrible, but the music is solid, featuring such metal classics as the title track, "Bonded by Blood," and "Piranha."

I always thought "Among the Living" was Anthrax's best CD.

[Guest Cerebus The Aardvark]

Too bad this isn't 1993...I'd demolish all of you. Alas, this is 2005, and I am old and dull.

 

Just listen to Skyclad and forget everything else...for a while, anyway.

[Retard Girl 0]

why does all this "black metal" and "death metal" now all sound the same? and why can't they sing? they're either screaming or grunting. it's like, i'm digging the music and the riffs and the drums... then they start scrunting (omg i made a word) and it makes me a sad headbanger

[EL BRUJ0 0]

I was gonna post up a reply (you all ready know - caps lock on the down, playboy) but before that happens:

what "black metal" and "death metal" you've been hearing?

[Nighthawk 0]

Because Taiga Star is something of a friend of mine, I will point out for her than black metal and death metal are completely different things... and not like Transformers and Gobots are completely different things, they're not even similar.

 

And you clearly know nothing about metal, so stop talking before you embarrass yourself further.

[Slayer 0]

and that's not even getting into the differences within death and black metal

 

Stick to your Rhapsody (of Fire) CDs!

[Retard Girl 0]

i seem to have touched off a sensitive subject for y'all. how dare i?

 

 

 

I was gonna post up a reply (you all ready know - caps lock on the down, playboy) but before that happens:

what "black metal" and "death metal" you've been hearing?

 

AOL/XM radio, "black metal" and "death metal" stations.

 

 

 

Because Taiga Star is something of a friend of mine, I will point out for her than black metal and death metal are completely different things... and not like Transformers and Gobots are completely different things, they're not even similar.

 

And you clearly know nothing about metal, so stop talking before you embarrass yourself further.

 

i suppose i don't then, because it sounded pretty much the same to my ears.

 

 

 

and that's not even getting into the differences within death and black metal

 

Stick to your Rhapsody (of Fire) CDs!

 

 

i've never heard of them?

 

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

That's an example of black metal.

 

That's an example of death metal.

 

See the differences?

[Retard Girl 0]

well i see an obvious difference in theatrics, but the music seemed quite similar. i have the same complaint however: the music is awesome with the speed and heaviness and beat, but why can't you guys sing?

[Retard Girl 0]

because some of you here are obviously better at this metal thing than i am.

 

i was shown the difference between 'black' and 'death' metal. i SAW the difference, with 'black' metal rocking the theatrics and 'death' metal seeming more stripped down. but my untrained ears didn't hear much of anything other than scrunting.

 

i've been trying to find something new to listen to, expand my knowledge, find stuff other than Megadeth and Slayer and Sepultura and Metallica.

 

i've tried Dragonforce, and the ear-splitting falsetto the guy has was killing me.

 

i downloaded the Dethklok album and i've really enjoyed that. the singing isn't too grunty, and the lyrics are amusing as fuck.

 

i got an Anthrax album and i'm trying really hard to like it, but again, it's the singing that is killing me. it's all good until the Dio/Geddy Lee "i have no testicles" falsetto wailing kicks in.

 

listening to the aol/xm radio's various metal stations, i took note of a few bands that i liked their songs and will be looking for tracks by them in the future: The Sword, Sirhan Sirhan, Hanzel Und Gretyl.

 

help a woman out and suggest me something, and/or explain to me the minute differences between the sub-genres of metal. i'm looking for something with a fast, driving beat, catchy riffs, and a singer that sounds neither constipated nor like his balls are being held on with clothespins.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

I'm not sure why you'd ever expect melodic vocals with music like that. It would be completely out of place.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Emmure.

 

 

The next big thing in hardcore/metal.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]