WM Main Event vs World Titles

[Jericholic82 0]

I have noticed something recently on WWE programming. All this build has gone to so and so getting a shot to be in the ME of WM. Like Kurt Angle making a big deal out of possibly beating Cena at NWO to "go to his third straight WM ME" instead of getting another shot at the WWE Title. It also made it seem like Kurt was proud to have been in two straight "main events" despite having lost them both (and IMO I think you can't really call his wm xx match the main event since the raw triple threat was the last match on the card and more hyped, and in fact his wm xix match against Brock while being the last match on the card did not have half the hype as Hogan-Vince-which incidentally was on the cover of the dvd and event posters)

 

 

Now while the WM ME is in both kayfabe and non-kayfabe terms is a dream for all pro wrestlers, why is it in kayfabe mode now more imporatnt than the world title? It seems to me like they are devaluying the world titles of both brands here. (although the fact that they split the company and titles may have devalued themselves enough)

 

In kayfabe terms, every wrestler's theoretical goal is to win titles, especially the world title. It is also implied that when you win a title, you make more money (again both in kayfabe and real terms-since the higher on the card you are, you get paid more) as per the example of Jamie Noble when he won the cruiser title in June 2002 and he suddeny "had money".

 

 

What do you guys think? Has the WM ME become more important than the titles themselves?

 

and what do you consider to be the real main event of WM 21? Trips-Dave or JBL-Cena?

 

 

personally I feel that "the new big babyface beating HHH at WM" is fast becoming the new "big heel gets beat by hogan at WM"

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

In kayfabe terms, every wrestler's theoretical goal is to win titles, especially the world title. It is also implied that when you win a title, you make more money (again both in kayfabe and real terms-since the higher on the card you are, you get paid more) as per the example of Jamie Noble when he won the cruiser title in June 2002 and he suddeny "had money".

IIRC Noble got money through an 'inheritance".

[Jericholic82 0]

 

In kayfabe terms, every wrestler's theoretical goal is to win titles, especially the world title.  It is also implied that when you win a title, you make more money (again both in kayfabe and real terms-since the higher on the card you are, you get paid more) as per the example of Jamie Noble when he won the cruiser title in June 2002 and he suddeny "had money".

IIRC Noble got money through an 'inheritance".

no actually he got the inheritance in june 2003. In 2002 when he debuted as Nidias boyfriend he was a poor white trash guy. when he won the cruiserweight gold, he now had enough money to buy Nidia a new double wide trailer and take her and Tajiri to an all you can eat buffet on a memorable sd moment from atlantic city.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I think it's just because the winner of the Rumble now gets to choose which title he goes after. So he makes the WM ME and decides if he wants to face the RAW champ or the SD! champ.

[The Tino Standard 0]

For all intents and purposes, the WM main event IS a title match every year. I think it's a case of this being not only a title match, but a title match in the main event of Wrestlemania. That's a way bigger deal than a title shot on Raw or some other random PPV.

 

Guys will get experimental runs with the world title every now and then, but the WM main event is a once-a-year deal and only the creme-de-la-creme get that spot.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Yeah there's only one Wrestlemania every year, so if you get to headline Mania (and win), thats probably bigger than anything you an do.

 

They have kind of bastardized the term main event nowadays. I mean I think they considered HBK vs Jericho at Mania 19 a main event, and I know they considered HHH vs BT a main event, and thats a joke.

 

To me the main event is the match that sold the most buys for the PPV. Thats why I never considered HHH-HBK-Benoit as the main event of Mania XX anymore than I considered HHH-Jericho the main event of Mania 18. Those matches may have went on last, but neither match added many buys to the PPV, therefore there were not "the" main event.

 

This year I think the main event is actually the World Title match, because it seems like it will have the best build, and people actually seem interested in the match more than anything else that is on the horizon.

[Exslade ZX 0]

To me the main event is the match that sold the most buys for the PPV. Thats why I never considered HHH-HBK-Benoit as the main event of Mania XX anymore than I considered HHH-Jericho the main event of Mania 18. Those matches may have went on last, but neither match added many buys to the PPV, therefore there were not "the" main event.

Lol...then what was? Lesnar/Goldberg?

[Guest Y2DAYDAY]

The top 2 drawing matches last year were Lesnar vs Goldberg with Austin as ref and Evolution vs Rock and Sock. The WM 20 name, in addition to the return of Taker all helped bump the buyrate.

 

Basically, Kane, Eddie, Angle, and HBK had nothing to do with the buyrate although they were involved in the main events. In this order IMO, these factors made the buyrate huge:

 

1. Year long promotion of 20th anniversary of WM.

2. Rock, Foley, and Undertaker all back for the show in big matches.

3. The Lesnar vs Goldberg with Austin as ref dream match along with Rock and Sock vs Evolution were the top 2 matches. HHH vs Benoit vs HBK was third in drawing power..

4. Benoit's journey to beating HHH and winning the belt was a draw because the Rumble built around Benoit did a huge number. HBK was a non-factor in drawing but helped put the match over the top in quality. However, once Benoit finished the journey, ast he Backlash number proved, the interest went down dramatically as Backlash with the same "main event" as Mania did 33% of the buys as Mania.

 

Basically, the WM 20 name/anniversary/1 year hype, the returning Rock, Foley, and Taker, also Lesnar, Goldberg, Austin, and Evolution drew the buyrate. Business dropped because Taker was a one time novelty, and Foley, Rock, Austin, Lesnar, and Goldberg all vanished(cannot forget about Show and Angle leaving as well), leaving Benoit, and Evolution to carry RAW and a non-draw in Eddie(numbers are facts, No Way Out with him chasing was a big dissapointment and he had no affect on the Mania number, and he bombed as champ, though Post-Mania was less his fault) and new main eventer JBL to carry Smackdown. It is a miracle Smackdown didn't fall further.

[Jingus 0]

Are you guys kidding me? The veery definition of "main event" is that it's the last match of the evening. Period. Therefore, Benoit-HBK-HHH was the main event of WMXX (along with being the best match of the night and certainly the match that drew me to the event).

 

But Wrestlemania's main event has always been treated as being more important than any individual title. That goes back to the very first Mania, where world champ Hogan was in a tag match for the main event. Hell, it wasn't until Wrestlemania 7 that the main was just a straight-up ordinary title match that wasn't a gimmick match, a "dream match", or a long-built grudge match with at least a year's worth of backstory.

[natey2k4 0]

Yeah the last match of the evening is the Main Event...

 

well what about Wrestlemania 11... Bam Bam vs that football guy...... ugh.

[Perfxion 0]

That match was the draw. Oddly enough, Nash as champion was not drawing, I am shocked too.

 

LT vs Bam Bam got on the news. Nash got only in the Observer. Plus that was one of the three cases where the title should not have been in the main event spot. WM11(LT vs Bam), WM13(Hart vs Austin), and WM18(Rock vs Hogan). The title match is only as big as its backstory. But at WM20, Benoit was in the main event. How can you count the Taker match or the Goldberg match as bigger draws when both weren't on TV for months prior to those matches?

[Guest krazykat72]

Are you guys kidding me? The veery definition of "main event" is that it's the last match of the evening. Period. Therefore, Benoit-HBK-HHH was the main event of WMXX (along with being the best match of the night and certainly the match that drew me to the event).

 

But Wrestlemania's main event has always been treated as being more important than any individual title. That goes back to the very first Mania, where world champ Hogan was in a tag match for the main event. Hell, it wasn't until Wrestlemania 7 that the main was just a straight-up ordinary title match that wasn't a gimmick match, a "dream match", or a long-built grudge match with at least a year's worth of backstory.

Well, That's not accurate.

Often times at house shows the Main Event would go on right before intermission, in order to get the guys out of there before the end of the shows.

As for the WM's, you're kidding yourself if you didn't consider Rock/Hogan the headlining match at X8. WM XX I think really goes to all 5 top matches as well as the hype as it being WM XX. It's tough to really gauge which of the 5 drew above the others since all were hyped about the same on tv.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest The Mandingo Warrior]

I was live at hogan-Rock, and honestly, most of my section LEFT the building after Hogan-rock (probably due to exhaustion and the lack of a voice). That speaks volumes for the mistake of putting Jericho-HHH in the last spot. They hyped the hell out of Hogan-Rock, put it on every poster, t-shirt, coffee mug, kitchen sink, you name it..Then, its the third last match of the night? WTF. It doesn't make any sense..

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Here's a question. What was the draw at Wrestlemanis VIII? Sid/Hogan, Savage/Flair, or a combination of both?

[what 0]

Here's a question. What was the draw at Wrestlemanis VIII? Sid/Hogan, Savage/Flair, or a combination of both?

It was a combination draw even though the Hogan/Sid match was the last match of the night, I believe.

[SuperJerk 0]

Are you guys kidding me? The very definition of "main event" is that it's the last match of the evening. Period. Therefore, Benoit-HBK-HHH was the main event of WMXX

I agree.

 

Chris Jericho and Triple H main evented Wrestlemania X8 (plus it had a much longer build-up), even if Hogan/Rock is what drew the fans (and is what people remember).

[Guest krazykat72]

Are you guys kidding me?  The very definition of "main event" is that it's the last match of the evening.  Period.  Therefore, Benoit-HBK-HHH was the main event of WMXX

I agree.

 

Chris Jericho and Triple H main evented Wrestlemania X8 (plus it had a much longer build-up), even if Hogan/Rock is what drew the fans (and is what people remember).

Actually "Main Event" is what drew the fans. The main attraction for the show, The most important match. It sure wasn't Triple H/Jericho in '02 regardless of when it occured on the card.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest Deadbolt]

Interesting points, but ever since I can recall, the world title has always been the main attraction for wrestlemania aside of the first one more or less. Winning the royal rumble throughout history has always meant a world title shot at mania for the most part as well.

 

I do think that they should spend more time building up angles and storylines to build up the U.S. and IC titles along with the tag team titles as well, but they seem to not be as important as they once were.

 

Sadly enough, i'm figuring Cena wins the world title and the U.S. title goes up in yet another tournament which with so many of them now, has made the U.S. title a running joke, as if the spinner didn't already kill it.

 

But to me the world title at the biggest ppv of the year should be the main focus, but at the same time they need to build around other titles as well.

[Guest krazykat72]

Sadly enough, i'm figuring Cena wins the world title and the U.S. title goes up in yet another tournament which with so many of them now, has made the U.S. title a running joke, as if the spinner didn't already kill it.

The spinner killed nothing. It's to further Cena's gimmick, just like the smoking skull belt was to further Austin's.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Only the biggest marks would say the last match has to be the main event.

 

Wrestlemania X8 was already covered as the most obvious example of a show where the main event did not go on last.

 

But even as a kid I remember goign to shows at MLG where Hogan, who was the draw and the main event, went on in the middle of the show. The last match would be something else. But there was never any doubt what drew the fans, and was therefore the main event.

 

I believe the main draw for Mania VIII was Hogan-Sid, and moreso the fact that they built it up like it was going to be Hogan's last match. The Savage-Flair match had a really good storyline with Liz, but I dont think it sold as many tix/buys as Hogan-Sid.

 

Going back to Mania XX, Goldberg-Lesnar was advertised more than any other match. I remember the week leading up to the show, and anytime I seen a Wrestlemania commercial on a non wrestling show (ie on CBS/TBS, etc) it was always the one promoting Goldberg-Lesnar with Austin as ref.

 

Among what I would consider casual wrestling fans that I know, the biggest draws were the Lesnar match and the return of Taker. The two title matches were way down the list, and regardless of who was in those matches I believe Mania would have done the same buyrate, so its really unfair to call either of them the main event of the show.

[Jericholic82 0]

thanks for the feedback guys. I think it just irked me how Michale Cole kept saying how the winner of Cena/ Angle would main event Wm, hardly even mentioning the WWE title shot.

 

And as for 18, Trips/Jericho was planned ahead for for at least a few months. Hogan/Rock came about because either Austin refused to wrestle Hogan or someone at WWE changed their minds.

 

 

Somehow, they thought since it was the first wm with the undisputed title it shoudl be the main event, and the WM ME should have the big babyface overcoming and winning the title. Unfourtunatley for them, HHH was not that over as a face. And they underestimated the nostaligic factor for Hogan in Canada. (as useless moron Scott Keith once put it, if you were a big part of the WWF in the 80's/90's, you'll probably be over in Canada-he put that in his review of WCW Mayhem 99 where the Canadian crowd went mad for Curt Hennig and started chanting "Perfect") Funny how they never considered Hogan/Rock to go on last but they were seriously pushing for Hogan/McMahon to go on last at WM 19. I guess Trips does have that much stroke in WWE.

 

 

I wonder which match will truly be the "main event" this year.

 

 

What is your opinion? which match is the most important this year and which will go on last?

[SuperJerk 0]

Batista vs. Triple H will go on last, since that's the match they've been building to longer, and since Batista won the Rumble.

[Promoter 0]

Well, generally speaking I think HHH is right about having the championship always end the show because what happens in the years when you don't have a big draw match-up? The title and main event spot will have to be sold. I think that is why they always push that aspect more than say the REAL main events like Hogan/Rock or Golebrg/Lesnar. It's just good business to do that. Triple H shouldn't have been in the damn main event at 18 in the first place coming back from injury two-3 months before. They could have built it up long term wise with Jericho taking out Trips, but they didn't. When you put Hogan and Rock within a few weeks of that match being announced what did they expect? Goldberg/Lesnar WAS the main event at one time remember guys? Once Goldberg started to give contractual problems in December they changed gears.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

The top 2 drawing matches last year were Lesnar vs Goldberg with Austin as ref and Evolution vs Rock and Sock. The WM 20 name, in addition to the return of Taker all helped bump the buyrate.

 

Basically, Kane, Eddie, Angle, and HBK had nothing to do with the buyrate although they were involved in the main events. In this order IMO, these factors made the buyrate huge:

 

1. Year long promotion of 20th anniversary of WM.

2. Rock, Foley, and Undertaker all back for the show in big matches.

3. The Lesnar vs Goldberg with Austin as ref dream match along with Rock and Sock vs Evolution were the top 2 matches. HHH vs Benoit vs HBK was third in drawing power..

4. Benoit's journey to beating HHH and winning the belt was a draw because the Rumble built around Benoit did a huge number. HBK was a non-factor in drawing but helped put the match over the top in quality. However, once Benoit finished the journey, ast he Backlash number proved, the interest went down dramatically as Backlash with the same "main event" as Mania did 33% of the buys as Mania.

 

Basically, the WM 20 name/anniversary/1 year hype, the returning Rock, Foley, and Taker, also Lesnar, Goldberg, Austin, and Evolution drew the buyrate. Business dropped because Taker was a one time novelty, and Foley, Rock, Austin, Lesnar, and Goldberg all vanished(cannot forget about Show and Angle leaving as well), leaving Benoit, and Evolution to carry RAW and a non-draw in Eddie(numbers are facts, No Way Out with him chasing was a big dissapointment and he had no affect on the Mania number, and he bombed as champ, though Post-Mania was less his fault) and new main eventer JBL to carry Smackdown. It is a miracle Smackdown didn't fall further.

How would you know exactly which matches drew? Did you take survey of everyone who ordered the show? I don't think that ONE match drew, but the overall idea of Wrestlemania XX did. The matches were just icing on the cake.

[iggymcfly 0]

Who the fuck bought WM XX for Lesnar/Goldberg? The fans had to make up chants just to stay awake during the damn match. It's true that the idea of WM XX sold better than the actual matches, but I think if there was any match that people bought the show to see, it was the Triple Threat match for the title.

 

I know that at the bar I went to, the marks were crazy for Benoit, way moreso than I thought they'd be. I was probably the only one there that wasn't into Benoit winning.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Who the fuck bought WM XX for Lesnar/Goldberg? The fans had to make up chants just to stay awake during the damn match. It's true that the idea of WM XX sold better than the actual matches, but I think if there was any match that people bought the show to see, it was the Triple Threat match for the title.

Even though the Triple H-HBK fued was never a draw, even though Benoit's Title chase didn't draw, even though a rematch between the three PLUS Mick Foley's first singles match in four years couldn't break 300 000 buys, you're saying that was the biggest reason 900 000 people ordered that show? You don't think The Rock's first match in a year, Mick Foley's first match in four, the teased return of the old Undertaker gimmick and the dream match between Brock and Goldberg that people had wanted to see ever since WWE signed Goldberg, had more to do with it?

 

The reason Goldberg-Lesnar drew such negative heat was NOT because no one wanted to see it. It was because the match sucked and a few people found out only a day or two before the event(after they had ordered) that both were leaving.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Exactly, I was there, and most of the crowd knew that BOTH guys were leaving, so how could anyone expect them to be into the match. However, leading up to the match, few knew Lesnar was thinking about leaving, so thats why it was the biggest draw ont he show.

 

For myself, I base it on who was featured in the ads for the show, and just using my own circle of friends as to what got them interested in the show. For most peopel I know it was Goldberg-Lesnar (two hosses) and Taker going for the gimmick change.

[Some Guy 0]

Since when was Goldberg/Lesnar a true dream match? The dream match was Goldberg/Austin and they couldn't deliver it because of Austin. Goldberg/Lesnar was an interesting match in that it was the original Goldberg vs the next guy to get the "Goldberg push" and it was getting mega reactions until the night of the show when much of the Garden knew that they both were leaving. But either way WM 20 didn't really have 1 drawing card. It wasn't like WM 6 or 9 or 13, there was something for everyone on that card. They had a power match, a technical match, a three way with three very good workers, they had the star power with Austin, Foley, and Rock, etc...

 

Oddly, as was mentioned the last WM to have the title match be the main drawing card was WM 17. 18 was Hogan/Rock, 19 was Hogan/Vince and Austin/Rock with Booker/HHH and Angle/Brock as sort of after thoughts. And 20 had everything.

[Jericholic82 0]

Bump!!!

 

Cmon keep my thread alive

 

 

Its really relvent this close to Mania time.

[Taker666 0]

I always thought the Main-Event was the match advertised the most on the card. So with WrestleMania 21, I guess the World Title, WWE Title, Angle/HBK and Orton/Taker would be considered the Main-Events for the show.