Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 And I feel in THIS case, in the case of life-and-death, nobody should have the power to make that choice. If the victim does not make it clear in the case of surviving thanks to a machine but NOT on life support (this is an exceptionally unusual situation, let's be honest), I do not feel anybody should have the power to, effectively, kill somebody. Then we keep her going as long as we possibly can? Is that the idea? Because there's other ways besides conciously pulling somebody's feeding tube and letting them starve to death. What about in the possible events of gangrene or heart disease that was discussed a few pages back? Is it murder to not try and keep her alive as long as medical science will allow, or can we say "Well, the Lord wanted to take her" and let the body do it's work without intervention? Expand a little on your position. What happens if he is LYING? We couldn't possibly bring her back to life. We couldn't possibly bring back anyone who was wrongly sentenced to the death penalty, either. We have no choice but to trust him to make the right decision, even if he's not the greatest guy in the world. Just like how much we would be disturbed if an innocent person was to put to death under the death penalty, we keep it because we have to keep trust in our system of justice to not do such a thing. Her condition is no different than it would be for a premature baby being kept alive on a feeding tube. The child's parents wouldn't be permitted to kill it. The baby will, over time, develop the skills. Terri will never redevelop what she has lost. She isn't just going to snap out of it any day. She has nowhere to go but to degenerate further into misery. We are, flat-out, assuming. If her parents were saying "Yes, she wanted to die" --- it would be no problem. So when did her parents get the right to make such a decision? By my system or yours, that makes no sense. He wants to be no longer married so he can marry his shack-up. This has been disproved via several different methods, the most factual one being that the money reserves have dried up. The second obvious one being that if he was just there for the cash he would have taken the $10 mil and left her to her own devices and whatever her parents had in mind. Her parents only interest is HER well-being. Oh? You are making this judgment on no more information than what I have, as neither of us know these people personally. We have no contact with Mrs. Schaivo, her caregivers, or her relatives and loved ones. If you do not make it clear you wish to die, then the only way anybody should have the authority to make it is with some rather clear and concrete evidence that it was your desire --- such as people with no ties to you agreeing with your assessment. This is just going to be one of those ethical areas where we disagree. I have a great respect for life, but there is a difference between life and prolonged death. Understanding that this been going on for well over a decade, I cannot see any dignity in continuing to keep bodily parts functioning when the chemistry and organisms that make that person who they are have ceased to function and the chances of recovery are zero. This is life and death. If you kill somebody and they didn't want it, you can't fix the problem. Unfortunately for that simple view, living wills are often not enough. You need to seek out someone who will agree to share your view and has power of attorney, as a living will is often not enough to end the struggle and convince the hospital that the plug should be pulled. She's going to starve to death. Not a fun way to go. -=Mike You're being overdramatic. She is not going to starve to death. She is going to dehydrate to death, which is a different process. In a few days she develops kidney failure and, even if she could have felt pain in the first place, enter a coma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 I'd pull the plug myself just to get it off my goddamn TV. This shit goes on all the time in other areas of the country. We get the point. Have something in writing incase your brain ever equals a turnip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 I'd pull the plug myself just to get it off my goddamn TV. This shit goes on all the time in other areas of the country. We get the point. Have something in writing incase your brain ever equals a turnip. I'm glad someone finally said it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hogan Made Wrestling 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Is it wrong to wish she would just have a heart attack and die a fast, natural death, hopefully make her way to a better place in the afterlife, and put this whole thing to rest for good? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Well, the judge refused to have the tube reinserted. No story yet, but it's breaking on TV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hhheld_down Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Is it wrong to wish she would just have a heart attack and die a fast, natural death, hopefully make her way to a better place in the afterlife, and put this whole thing to rest for good? in one word... no im sick of hearing about this crap too. im feel sorry for her and all but fuck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masked Man of Mystery 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Personally, I'd like to see a better way for her to go ie something along the lines of putting to sleep, but given the circumstances, let her go. This isn't torture, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 I'd pull the plug myself just to get it off my goddamn TV. Mr. Rant for President. And somehow, his Al Bundy avatar makes his statement even more humorous, because I hear Ed O'Neill's voice saying it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boon 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Her brain scan looks like a gutted peach- c'mon, my GOP bretherin, let her die. Nobody wants to exercise the right to live in misery for another 15 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 When I heard that one audio of her I thought of that ghost from the Grudge peeking through the covers at that one chick... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 My girlfriend brought up this angle. Isn't it a little scary for the federal government to intervene in what is essentially a state issue? And I thought Repubs were states' rights ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 I'd say the quote in RobotJerk's sig sums up that one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 22, 2005 My girlfriend brought up this angle. Isn't it a little scary for the federal government to intervene in what is essentially a state issue? And I thought Repubs were states' rights ... The GOP actually pushes what they like to refer to as an agenda of life. And, just to keep this clear, this is a judicial case, not state's rights --- as the state of FL has tried to save her. Judges have shot the law down. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 And I thought Repubs were states' rights ... Yeah, and they're for limited government. And Democrats are for the little guy. And the Green Party is ... well, they're the Green Party... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 My girlfriend brought up this angle. Isn't it a little scary for the federal government to intervene in what is essentially a state issue? And I thought Repubs were states' rights ... The GOP actually pushes what they like to refer to as an agenda of life. And, just to keep this clear, this is a judicial case, not state's rights --- as the state of FL has tried to save her. Judges have shot the law down. -=Mike How do you save someone who has a big glob of goop in their head and no brain? I finally figured out how I feel about this case. Look, at some point when figuring out these things you've got to look at the likelihood of recovery and the costs involved. How much do we throw down a black hole to keep someone alive? And, it isn't the state of Florida, but the Florida executive and legislative branch with the Florida judicial branch denying the case/appeal in the end. Did we really need a federal law? It's like a runner finishing a race, only to be told that they added on a few more miles at the last moment. Ex Post Facto? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 And I thought Repubs were states' rights ... Yeah, and they're for limited government. And Democrats are for the little guy. And the Green Party is ... well, they're the Green Party... Republicans are for little government? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 That's what they said when they were out of power. Like what am I going to do now -- vote for Democrats?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 22, 2005 My girlfriend brought up this angle. Isn't it a little scary for the federal government to intervene in what is essentially a state issue? And I thought Repubs were states' rights ... The GOP actually pushes what they like to refer to as an agenda of life. And, just to keep this clear, this is a judicial case, not state's rights --- as the state of FL has tried to save her. Judges have shot the law down. -=Mike How do you save someone who has a big glob of goop in their head and no brain? The belief is to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I finally figured out how I feel about this case. Look, at some point when figuring out these things you've got to look at the likelihood of recovery and the costs involved. How much do we throw down a black hole to keep someone alive? I simply want another judge to look at the case. Terri not having an advocate is a huge problem for me. If Terri has an advocate and a judge STILL feels that the tube should be out, then that is the way it goes. I think the entire case has been poorly handled to date. And, it isn't the state of Florida, but the Florida executive and legislative branch with the Florida judicial branch denying the case/appeal in the end. And when conservatives advocate "state rights", it's the rights of the state government that are answerable to the people. I don't think judges are any wiser than politicians and don't trust them as all-knowing wisemen. Did we really need a federal law? It's like a runner finishing a race, only to be told that they added on a few more miles at the last moment. Ex Post Facto? No, we probably don't need one. But this case was, IMO, botched early on. The judge on the case has done a piss-poor job with his responsibilities. The problems Terri's attorney brought up are valid problems. And if nobody else will try and resolve the problem, then the federal gov't will have to step in. I don't think Terri should die. Period. However, if a different judge, complete with an attorney arguing on Terri's behalf in an actual hearing, feels she should, then that is the way the cookie crumbles. I wouldn't like the decision, but I could far more easily handle a decision I don't like then a decision I feel was outright fraudulent. -=Mike -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Well, a federal judge did rule on it. So now what, an appeal to ao federal appeals court? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Well, a federal judge did rule on it. So now what, an appeal to ao federal appeals court? At this point, I feel the case should be dropped. I don't think she should die, but if an independent federal judge agrees with the state judge, there isn't a great reason to continue. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Well, you know its not going to end there. This will still be going on after she dies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 -=Mike -=Mike So good, he had to sign it twice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 22, 2005 -=Mike -=Mike So good, he had to sign it twice I was twice as arrogant as usual there. -=Mike .......-=Mike...... ...............-=Mike.............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 This will still be going on after she dies. And I hope her hubby gets harassed about this 'till the day he dies... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 22, 2005 I'd actually feel better if they gave her lethal injection. That seems infinitely more humane than slow starvation. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Maybe if she killed a Philadelphia police officer the Xtreme Left would want her to live... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masked Man of Mystery 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Wow...I agree with MikeSC on something in Current Events...that's frickin' scary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masked Man of Mystery 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Maybe if she killed a Philadelphia police officer the Xtreme Left would want her to live... No, if she had a cerebral cortex still or if Mike Schiavo said keep her alive, then I know I(can't speak for everyone) would support keeping her alive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Maybe if she killed a Philadelphia police officer the Xtreme Left would want her to live... No, if she had a cerebral cortex still or if Mike Schiavo said keep her alive, then I know I(can't speak for everyone) would support keeping her alive Which, again, makes her the property of Michael Schiavo. The practice of people being other people's property was supposed to have ended about 140 years ago here. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masked Man of Mystery 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2005 Maybe if she killed a Philadelphia police officer the Xtreme Left would want her to live... No, if she had a cerebral cortex still or if Mike Schiavo said keep her alive, then I know I(can't speak for everyone) would support keeping her alive Which, again, makes her the property of Michael Schiavo. The practice of people being other people's property was supposed to have ended about 140 years ago here. -=Mike I believe that you are the only one here who calls her property. She isn't property. This is a woman without a cerebral cortex who is married. As far as I know, in cases like this, the spouse makes the call. That does not make her property. That is what we have to do because the woman cannot think, let alone make a decision about her life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
