Why all the Orton hate?

[Some Guy 0]

I think he is capable of showing more charisma than he does based on the RNN deal. He came across as such a disingenous prick in those and I saw a little of that coming back on Raw. If he can get back to that type of personality he'll be a big star. In this thread I've heard him described as goofy looking and loved by 18 year old girls. Outside of Jeff Hardy I can't think of a goody looking guy who got big pops from the girls.

 

He is obviously capable of getting over as that was sort of his downfall. He made the "mistake" of getting over so they jumped the gun and turned him face. He has a good chance of getting over with Legend Killer Version 2.0.

 

I am not a big fan of his ringwork, it is really boring outside of that cool backbreaker that he does. His mic skills are passable but he comes off like he's forcing it. It doesn't sound natural and that's probably because they aren't his words. He also needs to learn how to pronounce his own last last name it is "Orton" not "Or-TON".

 

That being said he has the best chance out of any of the guys on Raw who are close to the top (so basically he has a better chance than Batista) to get over and stay that way. They can protect Orton by putting him in there with good workers and he can get by with average workers. Batista needs to be against guys of Benoit's caliber to have a decent match.

[Guest Coffey]

I liked Orton's Armageddon match and Raw rematch with Rob Van Dam. I also liked his match with Foley where he took the thumbtack bump.

 

He's had some above average matches. That doesn't mean that he's not still bland.

[humongous2002 0]

Orton could be a decent upper midcard heel but he's still not ready to be a top main eventer, he was given too many chances to get over as a top guy and has failed over and over. Maybe 2 years from now he might be more seasoned as a character to get to that next level.

[razazteca 0]

Orton will never be betta than Kanyon.

[haws bah gawd 0]

I despise Orton with every fiber of my being. I found him barely passable last Summer when he was playing the cocky heel, and nearly lost my interest in all things wrestling-related when he won the title at Summerslam. I didn't find him to be even half-way convincing as a main event player, and still to this day, I see him as a glorified mid-carder. The thing that pissed me off more was when he "turned face", he played THE EXACT SAME CHARACTER, with the same cocky-ass poses and mannerisms. I never understood why I was supposed to cheer for him, just because he was kicked out of Evolution. That never convinced me as to why I should cheer this guy that had played a cocky jackass for the past year.

[Some Guy 0]

Orton could be a decent upper midcard heel but he's still not ready to be a top main eventer, he was given too many chances to get over as a top guy and has failed over and over. Maybe 2 years from now he might be more seasoned as a character to get to that next level.

Isn't Taker basically an upper-midcarder at this point? Why not have Orton win to at least cement his spot as an upper-midcard heel?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Wrestling-wise, he isn't that bad. I quite liked many of his matches last summer, including his IC Title loss to Edge that everyone seems to hate. His problem is that even though he isn't bad, and maybe even a bit above average in the ring, it isn't enough to cover up his deficiencies in character, charisma and mic skills.

 

Not only he is boring, but nothing he does comes off as natural. Most of his character is copied off of other more successful wrestlers, most notably the Rock. He keeps trying to be the next Rock or the next Stone Cold, and not Randy Orton. It comes off as if he's trying too hard and constantly tries to resort to cheap heat/pops. I would hate him if he were a midcarder because his character is so bad (like Test), but it would be more tolerable if I only had to put up with him for 5 minutes rather than 20. Not only does it appear that he's trying too hard, but he is constantly being overpushed too. Combine the two, and you end up with someone that the fans don't respect nor find terribly entertaining, and thus shit all over it. The end result is you end up getting booed at the Royal Rumble against the biggest heel in the company.

 

When you are on a message board like this one, and are getting matches against HHH & Undertaker, and the posters start cheering for Taker & HHH (possibly the two most hated men in the IWC), your push isn't working. And if they put him over Taker at Mania, the problem will be 10x worse. Orton needs to completely revamp his character if he is to have any hope of being the next big star, and I don't see it happening, because not enough people acknowledge that there is a problem in the first place.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

[Some Guy 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

[Vern Gagne 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

That would allowed Matt Hardy to compete in the 6 man Ladder match.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

That would allowed Matt Hardy to compete in the 6 man Ladder match.

That idea got screwed when Lita did.

[MikeJordan23 0]

Don't hate him, but don't find him the least bit interesting or entertaining.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

I don't know. The match would be bad, but short, and Orton being freed up would allow us to ditch the dead weight in the ladder match, ie. Christian. Who seriously believes that Christian has a chance in hell in that match? All the others you could see winning (some more than others), and with Orton in there you really would have no clue who would win. He would benefit a lot better from a win there too, than he would against Taker.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

I don't know. The match would be bad, but short, and Orton being freed up would allow us to ditch the dead weight in the ladder match, ie. Christian. Who seriously believes that Christian has a chance in hell in that match? All the others you could see winning (some more than others), and with Orton in there you really would have no clue who would win. He would benefit a lot better from a win there too, than he would against Taker.

The Tag Match From Hell would be given at least 15 minutes, which is 14 minutes too much.

 

And Orton in the Ladder match might have made the result less predictable, but I think taking Christian out and putting Orton in would have dragged down the quality of the match. Christian's style and size allows for more and better bumps than Orton, and the bumps are what is going to hold the match together.

[Vern Gagne 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

That would allowed Matt Hardy to compete in the 6 man Ladder match.

That idea got screwed when Lita did.

That's really why? Matt and Edge couldn't put aside personal grudges, and competed in a match with each other?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

That would allowed Matt Hardy to compete in the 6 man Ladder match.

That idea got screwed when Lita did.

That's really why? Matt and Edge couldn't put aside personal grudges, and competed in a match with each other?

I don't believe Hardy was going to be a part of the Ladder match anyway, but even if he was, it would be insane to put him and Edge in the ring together right now.

[4hartthreat 0]

To add another match, I really enjoyed the Orton-Christian match from several weeks ago on Raw. I was amazed at how well I thought they worked together. Lots of good near falls and they worked in the concussion thing into the match very well.

 

But the one thing that I think everyone can really agree on is razazteca's point that Orton is not better than Kanyon. But then again, who is?

[Some Guy 0]

There is one undeniable bright spot to Orton v Undertaker at WM XXI; we're not getting Kane and Taker v Snitsky and Heidenreich.

I think the whole board can agree with that.

I don't know. The match would be bad, but short, and Orton being freed up would allow us to ditch the dead weight in the ladder match, ie. Christian. Who seriously believes that Christian has a chance in hell in that match? All the others you could see winning (some more than others), and with Orton in there you really would have no clue who would win. He would benefit a lot better from a win there too, than he would against Taker.

The Tag Match From Hell would be given at least 15 minutes, which is 14 minutes too much.

 

And Orton in the Ladder match might have made the result less predictable, but I think taking Christian out and putting Orton in would have dragged down the quality of the match. Christian's style and size allows for more and better bumps than Orton, and the bumps are what is going to hold the match together.

Christian never really did much that I can remember as far as big bumps in Ladder matches. He and Edge, who did the least were pretty much the just the winners in the Jeff and Bubba shows that were the first three TLC matches. Christian has had some good ladder matches and a really bad one (with Edge) but he tends to go with more sane bumps. I think that Shelton will be the big bump guy in the match as he is the only one one who hasn't had spinal fusion, isn't 6'8", and Christian and Jericho aren't really sick big bump takers.

 

I don't see what Orton would gain out of a win if he were in that match. He's already beaten everybody involved, it would be a lateral movement for him, just like it would be for everybody except Shelton or Christian (and I really hope that Shelton gets the win now that Batista has beaten Kane). Shelton has the most to gain in that match.

[4hartthreat 0]

To be fair to Christian, I think he often took the more dangerous, although maybe not most impressive looking, bump in the ladder matches when he would have the ladder he was at the top of be tipped over and would fall straight to the floor, not having the top rope help break his fall at all.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I hate Orton because I think he's everything wrong in wrestling.

 

He walked into WWE offices, and said "Hello, I'm Bob Orton's son, I'm built pretty well, and chicks think I'm hot. Can I have a job?" so they gave him the fucking world title. He got pushed because of his name and the way he looks, not because of any skills whatsoever. As everyone else has said, his matches, while not really BAD, aren't good. At all. They're boring and bland. And yet, because of his name and look, he may very well end the streak, while wrestlers a thousand times more talented, who lack the look and the name, get NOTHING.

 

That's why I hate Orton. That, and he just looks like a complete queef. That's the only way I can describe the guy.

[Guest wolverine1007]

Personally, I think the problem I have with Orton is that he lost all his heat in the Triple H feud. Having Triple H and Evolution turn on him just like that, then Triple H beating him at the next PPV did nothing to help Orton in my eyes or the eyes of many of my friends who are casual fans.

 

There is also the fact that he never did anything that would make me want to cheer him as a face. As someone mentioned earlier, there was no character difference in Randy Orton after he left Evolution, except for that he was made to look like a fluke by Triple H.

 

I could live with the Undertaker winning by DQ, after Orton goes ballistic on him with a chair or something after he can't put him away, but I know very few people who would like or expect Randy Orton to defeat the Undertaker cleanly one on one, especially at Wrestlemania.

[Guest fanofcoils]

Orton is the legend killer. That is his thing. I expect him to "legend kill" Undertaker at Wrestlemania and end his streak, or else he won't have much of a gimmick.

 

Orton isn't a good wrestler, who cares, Hogan wasn't either, Orton doesn't have nearly as much charisma as Hogan, but I think Orton was a good heel. I think Orton's character as a heel is basically HHH, except that Orton hasn't accomplished the title victories that HHH has. HHH got it done as a heel, Orton can do the same just like HHH I think, unless he can't, if so, why?

[CanadianChick 0]

Because as I said in my earlier post, he was putting on pretty damn good matches every night. Although with great talent, who could carry just about anyone (Benoit, RVD, Benjamin, Edge)...

One of these things is most definitely NOT like the others.

Maybe, but his matches with Rob were quite entertaining, IMO. RVD really made him look good, and Orton more than held his own.

[Guest LooneyTune]

He's a terrible babyface. His mic work, while adequate, is delivered with all the passion of a eunuch on his wedding night. He keeps doing that gay ass pose all the time. His wrestling attire makes him look like he's come straight out of a Suck 'n' Cum Wrestling home video. He does nothing bad in the ring, but he also does nothing at all that draws my attention. He has all the charisma of a tree. He's just 'there'. I don't hate him, but I have zero desire to ever see him wrestle, no matter how many times they have him RKO washed up crack heads or stick figures with breasts that look like flea bites.

HTQ just explained it better than I could. Everything in this quote is my opinion of Orton, except with better delivery.

[naiwf 0]

Orton is the legend killer. That is his thing. I expect him to "legend kill" Undertaker at Wrestlemania and end his streak, or else he won't have much of a gimmick.

 

Orton isn't a good wrestler, who cares, Hogan wasn't either, Orton doesn't have nearly as much charisma as Hogan, but I think Orton was a good heel. I think Orton's character as a heel is basically HHH, except that Orton hasn't accomplished the title victories that HHH has. HHH got it done as a heel, Orton can do the same just like HHH I think, unless he can't, if so, why?

Beating up senior citizens and "fake" legends like RVD & Booker T isn't exactly the same as ending 'Taker's streak at WM. As I mentioned in the Orton promo thread it makes no sense whatsoever to put Orton over after turning heel just 13 days before the match. When you take into account that no one outside of Orton marks would even perceive Randy as on the same level, you've got a recipe for disaster.

 

There is no build up here, and there will not be an adequate follow up because Orton is screwed either way. If he stays on RAW, he's still beneath HHH in the pecking order. If he goes to SmackDown he doesn't have all of the superb and/or over workers to carry him (Benoit, Jericho, Benjamin, Michaels, HHH etc) anymore. Add in the fact that there's next to no way 'Taker won't get his win back in that scenario, and it's likely he'd bury Orton in truly heinous fashion if it meant he had to give up his streak in the first place.

 

Basically, Orton's in a dead end situation, and that's pretty much because he's not nearly equipped to carry the ball they keep trying to give him for reasons I just cannot understand. If they gave half the effort to someone like Eddie, Christian, Edge or anyone else that the fans like in the midcard-upper midcard they'd have had a huge star on their hands. Instead, they've got a lukewarm guy who can't get over on his own and yet they still don't realize it's time to pull the plug on his push.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Comparing Randy Orton to HULK HOGAN has to be the worst comparison ever.

 

Hogan could actually cut a promo that made the fans go happy.

Randy can't.

 

Hogan actually drew more than 5 cents in his career

Randy didn't

 

Hogan could keep the crowd pumped for an entire match

Randy can't

 

Hogan is one of the most recognized wrestlers of all time

Randy is the son of a career midcarder who had a slow healing arm

 

Oh... Hogan is a better wrestler than Orton.

[Guest fanofcoils]

I expect Randy Orton to "legend kill" Hogan next. Well maybe not, but it would get huge heat or X-Pac heat.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Orton isn't a good wrestler, who cares, Hogan wasn't either, Orton doesn't have nearly as much charisma as Hogan

 

Why the fuck did you even make the comparison in the first place if you knew it was totally off-base?

 

Also, I really don't get how hitting a poor Diamond Cutter on guys who haven't been in the ring for years is "killing" their legends. That annoys me too. He's like "I'm a Legend Killer!" when most of his legend killing involves attacking people who aren't wrestlers anymore or aren't legends in the first place. It just makes him look like more of a pussy, methinks.

 

I think Orton's character as a heel is basically HHH, except that Orton hasn't accomplished the title victories that HHH has.

 

So he'd be over if they put the World belt on him 9 more times?

 

Christ Almighty, *I* would get over as a heel if they put the belt on me ten fucking times. Sometimes, it just ain't worth the effort.

[jester 0]

I think Orton's character as a heel is basically HHH, except that Orton hasn't accomplished the title victories that HHH has.

 

So he'd be over if they put the World belt on him 9 more times?

 

Christ Almighty, *I* would get over as a heel if they put the belt on me ten fucking times. Sometimes, it just ain't worth the effort.

I think that Orton was born from the same mentality that created HHH, actually.

 

They found a wrestler, and for whatever reason, they wanted him to be a top guy in the company. The fans aren't taking to him? Ok, we'll give him valets. We'll constantly book him in high profile angles. We'll give him belts and lots of wins. Still not over? Hmmm, we'll keep trying. We'll give him wins against some of the big dogs. Fans still not into him? Okay, how about a series of brutal matches against Mick Foley? There, he's over! And it only took a few years! Oh, but we have to keep him over, so let's keep giving him wins, lots of exposure on Raw, a big fancy entrance...

 

You're right, sometimes it just ain't worth the effort.

[Guest cosbywasmurdered]

Hogan actually drew more than 5 cents in his career

Randy didn't

Orton's a kid. How great was Hogan at Orton's age? You're both stupid for arguing over a comprasion between Hogan and Orton.