NBA Playoffs

[alfdogg 0]

Barring a miracle, the Pacers have game 5 wrapped up in Boston. They're up three with 27.6 seconds, Johnson is on the line and Boston has no timeouts.

[alfdogg 0]

It's over, final score 90-85.

[alfdogg 0]

I like seeing all the players who didn't make the playoffs sitting in the crowds at playoff games. Jalen Rose and LeBron James are in the crowd in Detroit, and I could have sworn that was Kwame Brown (recently suspended by the Wizards) sitting behind the Pacers' bench in Boston.

[The Electrifyer 0]

Lebron James looked a lot like Kanye West with the shades and sweater/collar shirt combo.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Agreed.  Being on a better team does not make Ben Gordon a better player.

Ben Gordon wasn't "on" a better team. Ben Gordon made the better team. He didn't just coast to the 4 seed in Chicago. Important games were won because of him. Subtract him and the Bulls are battling for the 8 seed.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Dalembert is impressing me with his play, for the most part. It'd be nice for us if Joe D could pick him up.

[The Electrifyer 0]

I agree with Czech. Ben Gordon had a bigger impact on the Bulls then Okafor did on the Bobcats. I think his 21 or 22 ten points or more fourth quarter games proved it.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

well, that's over at least. Detroit over Philly in 5, as was most predictions. Philly played hard though, but in the end nobody else besides Iverson could do much (wow was Korver completely useless in this series).

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

well, that's over at least. Detroit over Philly in 5, as was most predictions. Philly played hard though, but in the end nobody else besides Iverson could do much (wow was Korver completely useless in this series).

Korver got as bad a matchup as he could have gotten, as he had Tayshaun Prince to contend with.

[alfdogg 0]

I added the series standings into the first post of the thread.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I agree with Czech. Ben Gordon had a bigger impact on the Bulls then Okafor did on the Bobcats. I think his 21 or 22 ten points or more fourth quarter games proved it.

B-B-B-BUT REBOUNDS AND ASSISTS DEFINE GREATNESS!

[cabbageboy 0]

I kinda think that Gordon got the 6th man award and thus Okafor will get rookie of the year. Sure, Gordon maybe took the Bulls from a borderline playoff team to a 4 seed, but without Okafor the Bobcats wouldn't have hit double digits in wins. They'd have been one of the worst teams ever.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

the more i think about this jeff van gundy thing, the more its irritating me. Stern is threatening a possible LIFETIME BAN? That's frikkin' insane. There's just something about the 'feel' of the reaction that makes me suddenly believe JVG much more htan I did initially. hell, cuban corroborated half of what JVG said.

i mean he said that cuban complained bout yao to the NBA, and as such NBA are taking a closer look at Yao, moreso than the other players. then cuban confirmed he sent a tape of Yao plays to NBA, who responded that 9 of the plays were illegal, logically, you'd think after that they would indeed keep a closer eye on Yao.

A lifetime ban for that? Insane.

 

the whole thing woulda blown over if Stern hadn't gone all psycho over it, and it woulda been written off as the usual playoff-official-complaining.

 

and plus, Stern didn't have any VinceMcMahon-esque badass quotes like "The vote was 1-0. I won." to help redeem him.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Anybody else watching the best game of the playoffs so far.

 

Sonics lead by 5, 104-99 with 6 minutes to play

[alfdogg 0]

Seattle wins, Sac is gone fishin'.

[Guest Redhawk]

Here's one way to look at the Okafor-Gordon debate: imagine they switched teams. How many games would the Bobcats win with Gordon and without Okafor? Would the Bulls still be a playoff team with Okafor and without Gordon?

[The Czech Republic 0]

I kinda think that Gordon got the 6th man award and thus Okafor will get rookie of the year. Sure, Gordon maybe took the Bulls from a borderline playoff team to a 4 seed, but without Okafor the Bobcats wouldn't have hit double digits in wins. They'd have been one of the worst teams ever.

So then what's more important? Going from struggling for the Heat-Fodder Slot to home-court advantage, or going from really really bad to just really bad?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I kinda think that Gordon got the 6th man award and thus Okafor will get rookie of the year.  Sure, Gordon maybe took the Bulls from a borderline playoff team to a 4 seed, but without Okafor the Bobcats wouldn't have hit double digits in wins.  They'd have been one of the worst teams ever.

So then what's more important? Going from struggling for the Heat-Fodder Slot to home-court advantage, or going from really really bad to just really bad?

Czech, what does Ben Gordon have going for him besides the Bulls' Win/Loss record?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Does anything else really matter? If the guy helps win games, he helps win games.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Does anything else really matter? If the guy helps win games, he helps win games.

Yes, but many, many factors determine a team's success beyond the performance of a single player. Does Devin Harris deserve the NBA award? After all, his team had a better record than the Chicago Bulls. All Ben Gordon did is compile pretty statistics. That is a silly argument, but it serves a purpose.

 

Emeka Okafor outplayed Ben Gordon, in my opinion. Why should we penalize Okafor just because he was drafted by an expansion team. And this is not the MVP award, where we can invent silly distinctions about what constitutes "value." This simply asks who was the best rookie. In my mind it is the player that created more offense and had better defense, meaning Okafor.

 

I do not mean to bash Gordon. But the only argument that has been presented is his team's W/L record. Is Antoine Walker a better player than Kobe Bryant or LeBron James a better player because Walker made the playoffs?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Of course not, and I realize it's an individual award, but it seemed like you were trivializing the Bulls' success with Gordon as a key player for the sake of statistics. I actually agree with you that it should go to Okafor, however.

[Ripper 0]

And Okafor was the focus of other teams, meaning that people came into games to preparing to stop him as he was the number one offensive threat for the Bobcats, and he still put up his double double numbers(something not many players in the entire league did, rookie or not) Ben Gordon was the sixth man on a team that people had to prepare for Hinrich, Curry, and Deng.

 

I liked Gordon for Rook of the year, but Okafor deserves it too. And honestly, if Dwight Howard had been on a team that didn't have 2-3 20 point scorers, he woudl have walked away with this award. Kid is going to be good.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I kinda think that Gordon got the 6th man award and thus Okafor will get rookie of the year.  Sure, Gordon maybe took the Bulls from a borderline playoff team to a 4 seed, but without Okafor the Bobcats wouldn't have hit double digits in wins.  They'd have been one of the worst teams ever.

So then what's more important? Going from struggling for the Heat-Fodder Slot to home-court advantage, or going from really really bad to just really bad?

Czech, what does Ben Gordon have going for him besides the Bulls' Win/Loss record?

Points, a trivial stat if ever there was one.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Is Antoine Walker a better player than Kobe Bryant or LeBron James a better player because Walker made the playoffs?

AHHHHH

 

It's not like Ben Gordon just showed up a month or so ago to coast into the playoffs. He was just as big of a cornerstone in Chicago's overdue resurgence as Curry, Chandler, Hinrich, and Scott Skiles himself. His contributions through the season undeniably made the difference between a 4 seed and Shameful Post-MJ Losing Season #7. And he did it all AS A ROOKIE.

 

"Okafor had more rebounds and assists." So what?

 

"Coaches plan to face Okafor, and not Gordon." Again, so what? That's not Gordon's fault. That's the fault of the coaches drawing up the gameplan.

 

Ben Gordon was a major player in elevating the Bulls from the middle-to-bottom of the East to third in the East because he scored points and won games. Emeka Okafor was a major player in the Charlotte Bobcats winning more than nine games. What matters in the end?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Is it Okafor's "fault" that he's on the worst team in the league? The fact that coaches plan against Okafor as opposed to Gordon isn't a slight on Gordon, it's more a plus for Okafor, considering he has to produce what he does under more pressure.

 

ROtY isn't about what matters in the "end" though, it's about what happens their rookie season, from an individual standpoint. At least to me.

[Ripper 0]

With Manu Ginobli growing his hair that long, I can't help but keep thinking that I am seeing Vinny Del Negro playing for the Spurs again.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It's not like Ben Gordon just showed up a month or so ago to coast into the playoffs. He was just as big of a cornerstone in Chicago's overdue resurgence as Curry, Chandler, Hinrich, and Scott Skiles himself. His contributions through the season undeniably made the difference between a 4 seed and Shameful Post-MJ Losing Season #7. And he did it all AS A ROOKIE.

 

I am sorry, but I can not buy the idea that Ben Gordon was entirely the difference between the fourth seed and a losing team. It ignores that they added Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni, got 45 more games from Tyson Chandler, and received increased production from Eddy Curry and Kirk Hinrich. Without Ben Gordon, they still make the playoffs.

 

Honestly, if Ben Gordon was such a key to that team, why wasn't he starting?

 

Ben Gordon was a major player in elevating the Bulls from the middle-to-bottom of the East to third in the East because he scored points and won games. Emeka Okafor was a major player in the Charlotte Bobcats winning more than nine games. What matters in the end?

 

The Bulls finished 26th out of 30 in offensive efficiency, but second in defensive efficiency. They did not win games because they scored many points. They won games through their defense. What kind of defense did Ben Gordon play?

 

"Okafor had more rebounds and assists." So what?

 

Actually, Gordon had more assists. But first off, your demeaning statistics like they do not mean anything, and second, you are attacking the wrong statistics. Player Efficiency Rating (PER) sums up a players offensive accomplishments in one figure. Okafor beats Gordon. Turnover ratio, measures turnovers made as a percentage of possessions. Okafor turned over the ball less frequently than did Gordon, and Turnover Ratio usually favors guards. And that is before we even look at defense. Okafor has an outstanding defensive reputation.

[razazteca 0]

Uh but Vinny could never bump, flop and draw fouls like Manu does. Manu has the layup skills of Avery Johnson and can cause drama like Dennis Rodman. Now Vinny was a guard that could drive down the middle when the defense was sleeping but would rather sit outside and shoot 3 pointers all day if he could.

 

Yeah is sad that Manu is growing his hair out long trying to cover his bald spot but can you blame him...

[Ripper 0]

I didn't say he played like Vinny...he just looks like him when the game is going. All you see is nose and hair.

 

I remember when Vinny brought his deadly no defense playing, no driving to the hole but accurate midrange game to Phoenix at the end of his career.

 

On a side note, the Spurs really sold him out man. 10 years with the team and they trade him to the fucking Bucks. That was just WRONG. no loyalty in the league.

[Dangerous A 0]

NoCalMike and Slim Citrus are mourning yet another Kings playoff ouster. Oh well, 29 other teams end their season in disappointment every year as well since only 1 team wins it all. My rantings about the Kings-Sonics...

 

 

-Kings had absolutely NO answer for Ray Allen or Jerome James. Ray Allen I understand, but Jerome James? Come on. The Kings bigs showed ZERO heart in this series. The garbage bag bit is lame as well. In the next series, Tim Duncan or Kenyon Martin/Marcus Camby will not give two shits if Mr. James flies in with a garbage bag cape. He will be exposed in the next series.

 

-Bibby and Peja weren't on the same page until game 5, and then the rest of the team disappeared. I'd retain Bibby in this offseason, but Peja has to go. He's a regular season gem, but only shows up half the time in the playoffs and disappears when it's either game 7 or an elimination game. Chris Webber was right about him. Then again, Webber saying what he said is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

- Kings really need to look at their personnel right now since they are in a transitional phase right now. I'd keep Bibby and Miller for sure since good point guards and centers are hard to come by. Everyone else on that roster is expendable IMO. Since Bibby and Miller's primary weakness is they are not the most athletic people at their positions, the Kings may want to shore that up with some guys who are, oh I don't know, athletic? Guys who can recover when Bibby and Miller's guys go around them defensively. Guys who will rebound the ball when you need rebounds.

 

-I know this is typical, but I need to call out Rick Adelman's decisions here. If JEROME JAMES is killing you, why didn't he use Skinner and Ostertag more? Why did Adelman go more with Thomas and Williamson, who are WAY smaller than James, as opposed to going tall for tall? After James killed the Kings for 3 straight games, I figured Adelman would've adjusted, but no. I get that coaches shorten the rotation in playoff time, but when Jerome James is looking like Shaq against you, you should try something else.

 

 

Anyhoo, congrats to the Sonics and MrRant (only TSM Sonics fan I know of) who were flat out the better team in this series. I will say after watching them that the Sonics will go as far as Ray Allen can take them, but it will be up to the rest of his team to come along with him.