What is the WWE?

[Brett Favre 0]

every OTHER show has "Previously, on *insert show name here" bits before their episodes, why not Raw?

They sorta do, except without that voice.

[Carnival 0]

Murder Angles = Worst thing i've ever heard

 

I like most of Haas of Pain's ideas.

 

Although i think titles should be defended more.

 

Think about the ratings jump after Survivor Series. People thought the World Title would be defended every night. They thought Triple H had a chance of losing it.

 

When i talk to people who used to be fans during the attitude era, the first question they ask is "Who is the champ?"

 

The last World Title change on raw was in 2001. I think Raw has lost it's unpredictability because of this. Fan's don't care about missing some episodes because they know they won't miss anything major.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The presentation aspects of RAW (and Smackdown) are so important and they haven't improved a lick of it since moving to SPIKE/TNN. The RAW and Smackdown sets are ghastly. When TNA is out producing you, you know you have to step it up a notch.

 

I didn't like it when the UFC said they were going to take away their screen and pyro, but I'll be damned if it hasn't improved the presentation (cept for Tito and Genki Sudo). I had a similar experience as Haas when I was watching the HOF banquet and they showed Hogan moving through the audience, that created such an intensity because the fans were so rabid to get a piece of him.

 

PRIDE, for their big dome shows, has a camera on a wire that goes from the entrance-way to the ring and it creates this awesome effect. AJPW had a camera that was positioned directly over a corner turnbuckle and it zoomed in when there was a face-to-face. There are so many camera tricks that can be done and the WWE is only using quick cuts to hide shitty moves.

[Ravenbomb 0]

every OTHER show has "Previously, on *insert show name here" bits before their episodes, why not Raw?

They sorta do, except without that voice.

they do an occasional video package, but that's all

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And the video package is just from last week. The "previously on.."s usually use multiple weeks, and there isn't very fancy production on them, just straight up clips with a lil bit of music in the background to set the tone.

 

They need to get blood on the camera, and their hand-held guys, when the action gets frantic, need to start moving the camera around as if they were in the middle of a war.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

I think it's funny that so many are trying to answer I question I already did within two replies.

[Dark Age 0]

You didn't answer anything. You just babbled the usual crap. Rudo then put you in your place. Deal with it.

[justcoz 0]

I think they really need to get WWE 24-7 on as many cable outlets as possible and I wish they would have inked something in their new TV deal that would see them possibly get an actual legit cable channel.

 

The reason that WWE 24-7 is important is because even the most cynical friend or co-worker you know that despises wrestling did in fact watch at some point in their lives. Whether it was Bruno or The Crusher when they were little kids. Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair when they were teens. Attitude and Nitro when they were adults. People grow out of it or move on to other things. Vince McMahon controlling all of these video libraries is bigger than eating up all the territories in the 80's. This is him holding practically the entire industry's history in the palm of his hand and it needs to be packaged properly and viewable to the masses, not just die hards that want to spend some extra bucks each month. People like reliving their pasts, they like nostalgia - see the pops Hogan is getting today when he had "we're sick of him" heat five years ago. Pro wrestling is as americana as anything on television. It was on network television before major league professional sports. There needs to be a push towards this respect - to erase the low brow stereotypical image.

 

I also think they should beef up the content on the channel. There is no reason why they can't broadcast indies like ROH or other regional indie promotions across the country, broadcast the weekly OVW show, air wrestling from Japan or lucha libre, etc. Hell, put guys like Dave Meltzer on payroll, in the late night hours, and let them host a show towards a smarter more insider fan. These fans are not the enemy. They are the diehards. The video library is impressive in itself but what if you amped it up to be the showcase of all showcases of the art that is sports entertainment? At this point, World Wrestling Entertainment, should be seen as a name brand just as powerful and equal to the NFL. It's beyond one company - the company that used to be the World Wrestling Federation. It's now indicative of an entire industry!

 

So... in relation to the current product, World Wrestling Entertainment in it's present form ceases to exist. WWE is now nothing more than the parent company of the other entities that they have name rights to - World Championship Wrestling, Extreme Championship Wrestling and maybe the World-Wide Wrestling Federation or just "World Wrestling Federation" without the WWF initials? World Wrestling Federation Raw airs on the USA Network. Extreme Championship Wrestling airs on Saturday nights on USA in place of Heat. Smackdown morphs into WCW after an Eric Bischoff/Shane McMahon power struggle with HHH and Stephanie on Raw. Saturday Night's Main Event could showcase talent from each of the companies, perhaps leading into interbrand PPV's which would be Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam and Survivor Series and be a completely unique program, perhaps with Vince and Jesse Ventura doing the commentary.

 

Each brand entity has their own creative team. It's just bad business for someone like Paul Heyman to be sitting at home only because Stephanie and others in creative do not like him. That's exactly the kind of tension Vince should be looking for within his ranks. For christ sakes, look for $$$$$$$ rather than protecting egos. Let Heyman and Dreamer book ECW and compete with Stephanie/HHH/Gerwitz, etc. Let Eric Bischoff essentially produce and oversee WCW with Vince's payroll to do as he wishes. Hire the writers and consultants of his choosing. Play the three different shows off of each other with the occassional talent jump, etc. Have them cut on the other company in commentary as a means of cross promoting. Buy ads on each other's programming. Let the rivalries create themselves since there is no direct competition and the chances of a company emerging to compete with WWE in the coming years is doubtful. So, for the sake of the business, set the three shows apart from the other. Give some sort of incentive to each creative director and each brand's talent for the best PPV buyrates, ratings, merchandise sales, etc. No bullshit. No one political agenda dominating the situation and jeopardizing the business by turning fans off who want one thing over the other.

 

WWWF can produce the "live", unpredictable show that Raw is known for. Like others have stated, change the ring set up. Dim the lights when there is wrestling action to take the focus off of the morons on their cell phones, waving their signs and not paying attention to what's going on in the ring. Change the announce team. The camera angles, the color scheme, etc. End the backstage segments where the camera is there for no reason. Since they are live, have the interviews and any mic work right out there in front of the audience. Cameras can still catch some things going on outside the arena or backstage but not just two people standing at the coffee pot discussing their 'secret plot' they've come up with. Stop insulting the intelligence of the audience. That era of crash tv needs to die for Raw to move on. Include some squashes featuring indie or development talent that can bump and sell for the regular workers. Build angles gradually so feuds can go on longer and have more impact and meaning. Have perhaps two long, feature matches per episode, and build up to them with video packages, interviews, etc. Then let the guys go out there and work a WWE style match but with some buildup leading into it.

 

WCW can challenge Eric Bischoff to reinvent delivering the wrestling product. While I talked about ending backstage skits on Raw, since Smackdown is taped and not live, maybe increase that element on the WCW show. Have Eric Bischoff state that in order to compete against Survivor and "reality tv", his show will have cameras in the locker room, backstage, following talent around in their personal lives, etc. Make it almost like Wrestling With Shadows or Beyond the Mat with actual matches taped at the arena like The Contender, Ultimate Fighter, Tough Enough, etc. Don't give the impression that the show is live. Make it a combination shoot and storyline so nobody is really sure where the lines are crossed. Perhaps someone would take to Dave Batista more if they knew that his wife has battled cancer and his late start in the business is because of the years he spent looking after her. A smart ass opponent can comment that his age and inexperience is a detriment. How he doesn't seem comfortable addressing the live audience in his promos. How his mind is elsewhere and not on his match. Shoot it like a reality tv show with a wrestling match coming as a result. Instead of Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrerro being on the outs because of dissention in their tag team, Eddie overhears Rey making a remark that Eddie couldn't handle the pressures of being world champion and is vulnerable to criticism. More reality leading into the wrestling.

 

ECW would of course be more about mat work and adult storylines and characters. The show would be taped from some place like the Hammerstein Ballroom or Manhatten Center and they'd have a lower budget to work to maintain an underdog status, despite being under the WWE corporate umbrella.

 

Sign indies across the country up under the WWE umbrella. They can either get their programming synidcated in regional markets or broadcast them on WWE 24-7. Let the majority of the workers freelance independently but sign the prospect from here or there that makes some noise to an exclusive WWE development contract. Allow development talent to go from region to region to perfect their act before getting a shot in one of the major three. Groom the bookers of the regional areas as potential WWE creative team prospects.

 

Secure the future of the business while promoting it's history. Since NFL players and some celebs/musicians are marks for WWE, do some commericals with them talking about their favorite moments in the history of wrestling, with video footage of the events, the campaign can be WWE: This is all Real.... and Forever...

 

Then each show can have their own slogan reflective of the niche and segment of the audience they are trying to reach.

[Carnival 0]

i must say....it will never happen. but it would work. and i would love it.

[Guest Brian]

I have a couple of things with what justcoz says:

 

Is it really the best thing to be dividing your audience? As a business approach, it seems like a losing prospect, by creating a major division for advertisers, and just in general offering up a one-dimensional looking product.

 

Can you actually divide up the product? Always going to have the same people at the top. Going to have a tough time spreading administrative duties like agents and writers, and variety of ideas is going to thin out in a lot of cases. And the WWE stigma is always going to come attached to whatever you have; can WCW be WCW, or ECW truly be ECW?

 

Does Paul Heyman = $$$? What is ECW? I would contend that most people don't really know much about the true nature of the company; it hardly featured matwork.

[Slickster 0]

Can you actually divide up the product? Always going to have the same people at the top. Going to have a tough time spreading administrative duties like agents and writers, and variety of ideas is going to thin out in a lot of cases.

If the affiliate system justcoz suggested was implemented, there would be a greater # of available creative staff working in the indy affiliates.

[edotherocket 0]

My favourite years in terms of presentation of the product and the general direction of the company were 1992 (not profitable year) and 2000 (most profitable year).

 

What I liked about both years were the fact that the Sports entertainment element actually clicked and the storyline elements, while important in the development of the feuds, generally weren't too silly or overdone.

 

Both year had heels involved in romantic angles (Flair with the magazine pictures of Elizabeth, Shawn and Martel feuding over Sherri, Kurt and Steph) and they worked well because there was gradual build over a period of weeks which lead to a payoff in the form a PPV match.

 

I don't think they need to actually show so much of what is going on and instead just imply things are happening outside of the arena. I'm a fan of simple stories to supplement the feuds but they can do without the invisible cameraman approach. For example, I liked the way Flair interjected himself into the Warrior/Savage feud at Summerslam and even though the original ending of a Warrior heel turn was rejected, it still worked because the audience never saw any interaction on camera between the three outside of the ring so it was just as easy to buy that Flair had duped them both. And the whole mystery of 'Who will side with Flair' added an extra element of excitement to the match.

 

Things were a little different for the Kurt/HHH/Steph feud since we had the magical invisible camera man filming the key moment with Kurt kissing Steph which wasn't so great (they could have had Steph injured and lying on the ground just behind the curtains where a cameraman conceivably would be there, rather than actually inside a private lockerroom). But I did like the slow build to that moment and at the time I remember a lot of people looked forward to the moment where Kurt steals Steph and makes HHH a hugely sympathetic babyface. The heat generated from that feud if they had gone through with it, could have made for a huge conclusion at Wrestlemania.

 

Obviously things didn't quite work out that way, but if done right, I think that is the best sort of Sports Entertainment and writing style the WWE should aim for.

[Guest Brian]

Is it really going to produce different television? Will they really be affiliates, or just WWE under different banners? Is WWE really a sum of other products, or is it just a stagnant, unevolved entity?

 

As I see things, like I said before, it hasn't really changed so much. It's really still the same basic promotion, and it's a program defined mainly by the McMahon's. I don't know if you can expect a company that works with such restrictions, under such a mindset, to really change over time and adapt, or diversify and abandon their vision. It's an issue that came up during the Invasion; if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[Slickster 0]

That's a valid point, but justcoz does paint an interesting picture by comparing the WWE to the NFL.

 

-Both see themselves as American institutions

-Both have their own TV channel (WWE 24/7 is VOD, however)

-Both frequently refer to their own histories

-Both have rabid international followings

[Guest Brian]

WWE's reference of its own history is questionable.

[justcoz 0]

Is it really the best thing to be dividing your audience? As a business approach, it seems like a losing prospect, by creating a major division for advertisers, and just in general offering up a one-dimensional looking product.

 

I think that I see your point. I think pro wrestling/sports entertainment, within itself, no matter the packaging, is going to appeal to the same type of advertising demographic. Yes, there would be people watching one show of their preference over another but isn't that what Linda McMahon keeps repeating as a positive during her WWE investor calls? Only 40% watch both Smackdown and Raw or something like that. So they are already dividing an audience by seperating their rosters - which they don't seem to be abandoning anytime soon.

 

One concern would be if USA is selling the advertising for Raw, how would they sell the same advertising for the ECW programming, under the WWE advertising umbrella, when there is the chance that Paul Heyman would do something stupid, like having a wrestler crucified? Which brings us to your next point.

 

 

Can you actually divide up the product? Always going to have the same people at the top. Going to have a tough time spreading administrative duties like agents and writers, and variety of ideas is going to thin out in a lot of cases. And the WWE stigma is always going to come attached to whatever you have; can WCW be WCW, or ECW truly be ECW?

 

Well, you again already have that problem with the brand extension. You would just be splitting the main roster into three rather than two. They can fit talent jumps into storylines through loser leaves town matches, contract disputes, whatever. They would have a larger pull of talent from the indie affiliates to call up for test runs. They could still do a yearly draft lottery. Perhaps have trade deadlines. Let's say, if creative for WCW don't have anything for Matt Hardy, ECW does however, rather than letting someone go with that lame excuse, you can move them around with an on-air trade. They could even mimic the NFL draft and call up young prospects from the affiliate indie territories. It doesn't have to be the same people on top. It is right now though.

 

Your main point however.... would the WWE stigma be attached to whatever promotion. Well, yes, probably. WWE is the executive producer. Each show would have a different flavor and look however depending upon the creative director and direction. However, like I mentioned above with the ECW crucifixition angle, there would more than likely have to be some sort of clearance process and editor, perhaps Vince, if it's Stephanie or HHH then what's the point of the whole thing anyway? Certain creative directors would be frustrated because their content was cut or in question. It's quite possible that we'd run into the same power struggles that we have now. Raw is where the money is, what if it doesn't perform as well as WCW? They didn't like it one bit when Smackdown outperformed Raw.

 

So there are logistics which still have to be figured out. I wasn't writing a business plan here, just an outline of a general direction.

 

 

Does Paul Heyman = $$$? What is ECW? I would contend that most people don't really know much about the true nature of the company; it hardly featured matwork.

 

I never said Paul Heyman = $$$$ but rather Vince should be thinking about $$$$ rather than sitting capable wrestling storytelling minds at home because they are too abrasive to gel with other members of creative with a less impressive resume and lesser amount of respect from your contracted talent. The workers want Paul in a creative position more than management. He obviously has a mind for the storytelling and character building aspect of the business, financial and bookkeeping seemed to be his problem.

 

Ditto for Eric Bischoff. The man responsible for at least creatively nearly putting the WWF under, forcing them to reinvent their product. Why pay to fly him from taping to taping to appear on camera and speak for less than a minute when he can be contracted in a role which could possibly make the company some money. Vince beat Ted Turner. It's over. Move on for the best interest of the company.

 

Perhaps mat work was the wrong description to use for ECW. It wasn't exactly ROH. However, in my opinion, they put more of an emphasis on bringing in "good workers" than the garbage match, extreme stigma they get tagged with. Granted, there were times those good workers were using offense with chairs, rather than mat work, there was still a greater understanding from the ECW audience and the company of the concept of a good worker.

 

Is it really going to produce different television? Will they really be affiliates, or just WWE under different banners? Is WWE really a sum of other products, or is it just a stagnant, unevolved entity?

 

As I see things, like I said before, it hasn't really changed so much. It's really still the same basic promotion, and it's a program defined mainly by the McMahon's. I don't know if you can expect a company that works with such restrictions, under such a mindset, to really change over time and adapt, or diversify and abandon their vision. It's an issue that came up during the Invasion; if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

Without a doubt. The reason it hasn't changed much however is mostly because they mix the creative teams to work both shows. There is no internal rivalry. Perhaps among the talent that element seems to exist somewhat but it the same creative direction defined by the McMahons. It doesn't have to be that way though. This is what the McMahons have to realize for themselves. Have a content board of directors that oversees each of the products, not forcing upon storyline issues but to ensure that the shows are within company standards. There will be a WWE banner attached to each individual company because they are the producer and governing body. That can't be escaped. Just like the Dallas Cowboys couldn't have their cheerleaders to a topless halftime show without the approval of the NFL.

 

You can do this and still create three products with their own identity thanks to the seperation in the creative process.

 

WWE's reference of its own history is questionable.

 

Not since the success of the various DVD's, the launching of WWE 24-7, the HOF ceremonies, etc. It's kind of obvious that this is a direction they are building on.

[Guest JerichosHi-Lite]

Because I don't want to give up on WWE just yet, I like to think of WWE now as the "calm before the storm", kinda like in 1995-ish before Austin and Attitude hit big. It seems like they don't really know what they're doing or what directoin they're headed in. As much as I dislike him, John Cena seems to epitomise the kind of thing they're looking to do ... seeing as Orton failed dismally

[Toxxic 0]

YES! Shadow gets it! I have a secret dream/wish that after Shane McMahon was at the UFC show, he got so enamoured with it that he told his pops and they're going to take a look at leaning more towards that style of presentation.

 

But...

 

I think maybe they should go in the opposite direction. Screw the sport, totally play up the fantastical elements of it. Hurricane should be a superhero with superpowers. People should die, there should be time travelling, there could be mergers where HHH and Batista form to be Triple B, and bring in someone like Chris Masters to represent them both as one. Wrestling should play out like a comic book. The title should give the wrestlers added powers, like super strength, or super speed, and that's why wrestlers want it. They can use their slick production to make vignettes where people breathe fire and freeze each other and shit. Matches become this epic battle of good vs evil and the whole universe is on the line. They can have concept PPV's where the presentation is set like Kill Bill, or some Japanese Anime, and everyone acts accordingly.

Sorry. No dice. That's an awful idea. This isn't 'Mortal Kombat - the TV Series', and I don't think it should be. There might (MIGHT) be an audience for that type of thing, but you wouldn't find it, and it wouldn't be as big. I mean, you'd lose ALL the die-hards. Every single one. BUT you'd also struggle to find new fans. I mean, how do you market that? And what happened to continuity? What about the revenue they make from their back catalogue? How do you explain that Benoit used to beat people by pulling their arm out of it's socket, but now he can morph into a giant wolverine and tear their throat out (or whatever)?

 

In terms of a business model, the WWE could probably do a lot worse than try and follow the sort of model that ROH uses. It's focused on the wrestling, you get some backstage antics and Sportz Entertainment stuff but never too much. You never have to REALLY suspend your disbelief (except for a few of the more contrived spots). For example, the Homicide/Samoa Joe fireball in 2004. Homicide thought he'd won, the referee denied it, the lights got killed and then he fireballed Joe. They never said it happened because Homicide had mystic powers, it was because he had Rocky Romero turn the lights off and he had some lighter fluid sneaked to him in those few moments of balckness. Backup plan.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

There's been a lot of great ideas and interesting thoughts brought up thus far, but here is what I'm thinking:

 

"WWE...What's going to happen next?"

 

Someone earlier brought up the fact that reality TV is hot right now, as are dramas on TV. Look at shows like "Desparate Housewives." The shows are very episodic, with cliffhanger endings leaving you wondering what is going to happen next week. I think one of the problems with WWE lately is that the shows are booked like each RAW or Smackdown is its own "event," standing alone from what happened the past week, or the week after. They've gotten a little better by announcing matches for the next week, but they could do a lot more.

 

One of the last times WWE was really hot was during the HHH-Stephanie-Angle "love triangle." WWE needs to do more angles like that where week after week, there are developments in the angle that make you wonder what is going to happen next week. With "WWE...What's going to happen next?" they could still have good wrestling, but make the storylines more epic, more episodic. Make the angles MEAN something again. Triple H is going to get mad at JR and have a match with him? Fine, but what is his reasoning? And if Triple H is going to injure JR in said match, make JR's injury seem real...have him gone for a long period of time...bring into question if he's going to come back. And if he does come back, is he going to have someone get revenge on Triple H, etc. Have short interviews with JR week after week, talking about his feelings. Matches don't just happen in a vacuum. They should have real consequences. That is just one (admittedly a little weak) example.

 

Also, I think ultimately one of the brands has to drop the WWE moniker and become its own separate "company." Someone else brought up how WWE needs something to position itself against. I really think to bring some realism and competition back, one of the brands should drop the WWE moniker and become a different company. And I think that should be RAW.

 

Smackdown is on UPN, which is broadcast TV. It has a bigger audience, and would benefit from continuing to be the WWE company. RAW, I think, should become a WCW show, or an entirely new promotion. But Eric Bischoff is the GM of RAW, and I think there should be an angle where he somehow takes RAW from the McMahons and turns it into WCW RAW. Having WCW on Monday nights and WWE on Thursday would give something to drive both brands.

 

Maybe some people don't like these ideas, but I think they are feasible, and would result in substantive and positive direction changes for BOTH shows.

[zyn081 0]

Im back!

 

I have had enough of reading this post. I think its deviated too much for the topic (and I only got through the 1st page). Its about what is the identity of the WWE. Whats wrong with in my honest opinion is the little things, the inconsistencies and the wasted oppourtunities. I must admit, I prefer the skits and promos, and some times read through or fast forward the matches. Even the cruisers bore me now. Wrestlers should be able to hang their nuts out and just go for it. I wouldnt want somebody to tell me how to do my job to the letter. They should be able to act as themselves. Cena makes me sick trying to be Austin, Orton as HHH, Batista as UT, and who is the new Rock? Benjamin or Jordan. Its all just plain vanilla to me. I think Steamboat said it best when asked whether he prefers his 2 out of 3 falls 60 min time limit match with Flair or his 16 min odd buzzfest with Savage. Their were god knows how many steps in the latter, with only 3 steps, the falls being known. Thats why Steamboat prefers the Flair match.

 

The WWE is in a stage of throwing shit at the fan and seeing what sticks but doesnt give it a enough time for it to set and scrap it before its done. WWE is like most companies nowadays, happy with a reasonable return on their investment. The solution to their problem in light of the fans doesnt result in a quick fix or catchcy slogans. I would really like to see them break out, drop the edgey heavy grunge and urban beat styles and give something different. I would like to see them be real, but I digress. The identity of the WWE can be summed up in stable safe lazy business. Its a woman who is never happy with its clothes but really wants to be a transvestite, i.e. quirky and cant make up his/her mind. Sorry if the metaphor sounds a bit sick. It needs to focus on the entertainment, because that what sells, but this acts as the build for the longer matches. There need be only 1 rule to the wrestlers, DONT BREAK YOUR NECK BY BEING FOOLISH. Wrestlers pick their own spots. My vision of the WWE and if I ever had the book in my hand would be the subtitle of: "living on the edge, playing it by ear". Basically, lose worked plans with most of it being shoots and improvisations. I dont care if X is right to be upset with Y, who am I to judged? As long as they draw and play to their strengths, thats fine by me. This means capable workers who are also entertainers.

 

Anyways, thats my 2nd stress rant for the day out of the way.

[razazteca 0]

every OTHER show has "Previously, on *insert show name here" bits before their episodes, why not Raw?

They sorta do, except without that voice.

they do an occasional video package, but that's all

Its not produced by Funmation but of course WWE has always been cartoonish.

[Promoter 0]

Some pretty good stuff here. I liked the industry approach justcoz stated and it would have worked, but they won't do that. They had the opportunity in 2001 and blew it when it really would have mattered when the masses cared. The Invasion just killed all of that. Then they screwed up with the brand extension with how they did the original draft where Flair and Vince just pick and chose random wrestlers out of spite. As someone said they should just become more real which sounds kind of funny, but in Wrestling with Shadows Bret or Austin stated how real wrestling can be with the USA/Canada angle. The storylines must have some real emotion to it for fans to invest their time and energy into it. Most of the storylines they have done over the last few years just do not have this for the most part. Angle/HBK kind of had that real element to it for why Angle could hate HBK because of 1996. They need to do that more than the crap where people do things backstage such as the MNM thing with Rey/Eddie and a match happens out of nowhere. Who cares because there is no real emotion to it. The wwe was kind of like reality tv in some cases.

 

Look at the nWo angle in its infancy. Everyone always wondered what it would be like if WWF and WCW kicked off. Hall and Nash went to wcw and were actually believable as being outsiders sent by Vince Mcmahon. Hogan's heel turn had reality to it because he was selling out arenas when Bischoff was selling meat out of a truck and the Johhny come lately fans owed him for the business being where it was at. Austin and Mcmahon had roots in reality because Vince was trying to protect Austin from further injury and then the whole Montreal incident. All the main stuff that brought wrestling back in the mid 90's had a reality to it which in a few years following reality tv would rob from the industry. Batista/HHH had caught on fire because of the reality of HHH keeping down Batista because Batista was a threat to his title. There was a realism to it which why fans put their energy into it. Then they went ahead and put all that action adventure crap to it with car chases and Batista acting like a spy backstage. Someone brought up the Rock/Brock build up and how fans were anticipating that match. It did good business, but the wwe has not build another match in that fashion which I don't understand why. When they did those promos with Brock training that did more to get him over then him going roughshod over the roster(exclduing the Hogan win).

 

So, what is the wwe? Right now I can't say. I think they were going for the athletic approach on smackdown when Angle and Brock were the focal points with the tale of the tape stuff. I would have thought they wanted Batista and Cena to usher in a new era for both brands, but I'm not so sure now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

YES! Shadow gets it!  I have a secret dream/wish that after Shane McMahon was at the UFC show, he got so enamoured with it that he told his pops and they're going to take a look at leaning more towards that style of presentation.

 

But...

 

I think maybe they should go in the opposite direction.  Screw the sport, totally play up the fantastical elements of it.  Hurricane should be a superhero with superpowers.  People should die, there should be time travelling, there could be mergers where HHH and Batista form to be Triple B, and bring in someone like Chris Masters to represent them both as one.  Wrestling should play out like a comic book.  The title should give the wrestlers added powers, like super strength, or super speed, and that's why wrestlers want it.  They can use their slick production to make vignettes where people breathe fire and freeze each other and shit.  Matches become this epic battle of good vs evil and the whole universe is on the line.  They can have concept PPV's where the presentation is set like Kill Bill, or some Japanese Anime, and everyone acts accordingly.

Sorry. No dice. That's an awful idea. This isn't 'Mortal Kombat - the TV Series', and I don't think it should be. There might (MIGHT) be an audience for that type of thing, but you wouldn't find it, and it wouldn't be as big. I mean, you'd lose ALL the die-hards. Every single one. BUT you'd also struggle to find new fans. I mean, how do you market that? And what happened to continuity? What about the revenue they make from their back catalogue? How do you explain that Benoit used to beat people by pulling their arm out of it's socket, but now he can morph into a giant wolverine and tear their throat out (or whatever)?

(I wasn't serious)

 

(But hey, every style should be taken into consideration)

[Guest Brian]

It doesn't have to be the same people on top. It is right now though.

 

Your main point however.... would the WWE stigma be attached to whatever promotion. Well, yes, probably. WWE is the executive producer. Each show would have a different flavor and look however depending upon the creative director and direction. However, like I mentioned above with the ECW crucifixition angle, there would more than likely have to be some sort of clearance process and editor, perhaps Vince, if it's Stephanie or HHH then what's the point of the whole thing anyway? Certain creative directors would be frustrated because their content was cut or in question. It's quite possible that we'd run into the same power struggles that we have now. Raw is where the money is, what if it doesn't perform as well as WCW? They didn't like it one bit when Smackdown outperformed Raw.

I'm not even talking about main event wrestlers. I'm talking about execs, like Vince and Steph, who are dictating the storylines, the gimmicks, and the wrestling. In terms of time allowed, styles, pace of matches, there is just not a whole lot of differences in the product as is. That's not going to get solved by simply dividing up the rosters, agents, and writer. It's something that's symptomatic of a top-down system, where commands are coming out of the top and being relayed in the fashion the people on top want. That's why I say something like the WWE is the McMahon's. They dictate everything about it, almost always have (with a few exceptions), and always have. And that's the main point, is that the McMahon's are very hands-on with their product, and they want things in a certain way, and that's something that hasn't changed, and isn't going to. They've done thing along time their way, and as much as most of us don't like to admit, it's worked. They will always be the overseers, and the writers are always going to recognize that, as do the agents, as do the wrestlers. They define the product, even if they're not out there putting down the rules.

[Toxxic 0]

YES! Shadow gets it!  I have a secret dream/wish that after Shane McMahon was at the UFC show, he got so enamoured with it that he told his pops and they're going to take a look at leaning more towards that style of presentation.

 

But...

 

I think maybe they should go in the opposite direction.  Screw the sport, totally play up the fantastical elements of it.  Hurricane should be a superhero with superpowers.  People should die, there should be time travelling, there could be mergers where HHH and Batista form to be Triple B, and bring in someone like Chris Masters to represent them both as one.  Wrestling should play out like a comic book.  The title should give the wrestlers added powers, like super strength, or super speed, and that's why wrestlers want it.  They can use their slick production to make vignettes where people breathe fire and freeze each other and shit.  Matches become this epic battle of good vs evil and the whole universe is on the line.  They can have concept PPV's where the presentation is set like Kill Bill, or some Japanese Anime, and everyone acts accordingly.

Sorry. No dice. That's an awful idea. This isn't 'Mortal Kombat - the TV Series', and I don't think it should be. There might (MIGHT) be an audience for that type of thing, but you wouldn't find it, and it wouldn't be as big. I mean, you'd lose ALL the die-hards. Every single one. BUT you'd also struggle to find new fans. I mean, how do you market that? And what happened to continuity? What about the revenue they make from their back catalogue? How do you explain that Benoit used to beat people by pulling their arm out of it's socket, but now he can morph into a giant wolverine and tear their throat out (or whatever)?

(I wasn't serious)

 

(But hey, every style should be taken into consideration)

Just remember, I saw the adventures of Sho Funaki, Time Travelling Scientist. You can never tell with the RRR.