Hurricane Katrina

[EricMM 0]

Who FUCKING CARES!?

 

Do blacks get "discrimination points" because whitey oppressed them at one point? Do whites lose points because they were the ones doing so? Fuck that noise. I never oppressed anyone. My dad didn't, and my mom didn't.

 

Black cultures association with negative things simply because they're done by blacks is stupid. I don't call serial killers "our people" even though they're white. Because they are NOT the same as me. Kanye shouldn't be associating himself with anyone worth shooting in NO.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

It was probably in reference to the fact that they are going to shoot at the people who are shooting at the rescuers.

 

Who are, given the pre-disaster make up NO, probably black.

 

So, Kanye seems to be mad that they're going to shoot black people.

 

Nevermind that these black people are causing people to die DIRECTLY.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess you're referring to the National Guard Chinook helicopter that was shot at?

 

But the operation was put on hold when shots were fired at the helicopter, said a local official in Texas involved in the evacuation.

 

A. Why would the National Guard run away because of small arms fire from a few criminals?

 

B. The FAA is controlling all flights in the area and has said they had no reports of the shots.

 

``We're controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on,'' she said, adding that the FAA was in contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.

 

C. The pilot of the helicopter has said there were no shots fired.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Kanye shouldn't be associating himself with anyone worth shooting in NO.

 

Perhaps not everyone trusts the judgment of the government to decide who is and is not "worth shooting"?

[EricMM 0]

There are repeated accounts of people shooting at other people in NO, and that is causing people to become reluctant to go in and help.

 

This is fact one.

 

The military is going to go in and kill anyone doing said shooting.

 

This is fact two.

 

Kanye west said they are going in to shoot "us."

 

This is fact three.

 

Yes, the majority of people who will eventually get shot will be black. This is inevitable because of who is left in the city. But, also, the majority of the people helped by these fuckwads getting shot will be BLACK ALSO, for the SAME REASON. So, maybe, just maybe, Kanye could have said (though it would have been as nonsensical) that they are going in to SAVE US.

[SuperJerk 0]

Who FUCKING CARES!?

 

Do blacks get "discrimination points" because whitey oppressed them at one point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you not get that racial discrimination still happens today?

 

I never oppressed anyone. My dad didn't, and my mom didn't.

 

I'm not accusing you of doing it, but generations of powerful whites HAVE done it, and continue to do it.

 

Black cultures association with negative things simply because they're done by blacks is stupid. I don't call serial killers "our people" even though they're white. Because they are NOT the same as me.

 

That's a good point. There are plenty of examples of other black people besides Kayne West who are willing to excuse criminal activity because the accused is black. An unfortunate side effect of being held down by the white establishment for 400 years is refusing to trust the white establishment even when it is doing the right thing.

 

I've never said I agree with West's comments (because I certainly do not), but I understand why he said it.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

There are repeated accounts of people shooting at other people in NO, and that is causing people to become reluctant to go in and help.

 

And I would suggest that this has been blown out of proportion because of the race of the people in NO. Just like these scares in Baton Rouge.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...pinionfront-hed

 

The military is going to go in and kill anyone doing said shooting.

 

This is probably the case. But when you have Hannity & Co. on TV yelling, "shoot all the looters!" could you possibly see that it might scare people who don't trust the government to discern between looters and non-looters?

[SuperJerk 0]

Fuck the looters. I just want them to be sure and shoot the rapists and the snipers.

[NoCalMike 0]

Is it true that Haliburton has already been awarded the contracts to rebuild New Orleans?

 

If so, is it even going to be possible for all the poor folks to move back in, or will they be priced out of the market once all the "brand new" homes are built in the same area(s)?

[Downhome 0]

(These people) are so poor, and so black...

 

Why in the world would Wolf even slip and say something like that for?

[Slayer 0]

I don't know what exactly this whole "sacred bond" among minority groups is about, especially when I tend to hear or read more about homogeneous race-on-race crimes than crimes crossing racial boundaries

[The Czech Republic 0]

Did it occur to any of the "da gubment be outs to kill us!" crowd that some of the National Guardsmen just might be black? Do you think they're going to refrain from opening fire on armed looters because both of their great-great-great-great-grandfathers were whipped?

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Did it occur to any of the "da gubment be outs to kill us!" crowd that some of the National Guardsmen just might be black? Do you think they're going to refrain from opening fire on armed looters because both of their great-great-great-great-grandfathers were whipped?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could just be me, but it seems with each one of your posts in this thread, you're digging yourself in deeper.

[imajackoff? 0]

yeesh... what a thread.

 

If you cant understand why minorities (particularly blacks) have a "sacred bond" with each other you must a have a pretty narrow view of the world, unable to think outside of your own situation.

 

That still doesnt mean that Kanye West isnt an idiot. Wow.. what a marble mouthed tool.

 

I do have trouble with black people that have difficulty understanding that the words "black" and "poor" are not synonyms. Our society (particularly during this administration) has shown an open resentment to those that are less successful or fortunate than themselves. The fact that the people of NO were basicly left for dead has less to do with black or white, and more to do with green.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

By the way

 

Not to spoil the race debate, but does everyone here realize that the City of New Orleans failed to act on their own disaster plan, which called for their school buses to take those who couldn't otherwise leave?

 

Those buses were less than a mile from the SuperDome.

 

Now back to your usual race-baiting and bush-bashing thread.

 

 

//Aside: THe governor must call on the national guard. She waited until Wednesday to put the word out

[The Czech Republic 0]

I guess it's better to "experiment" with structurally questionable football fields.

[imajackoff? 0]

In the time of a disaster, once the fed govt knows that the local govts have have dropped the ball it's their duty to pick it up, not stumble around and trip over it.

 

It's real simple. You know the 'cane is coming, be prepared for the worst scenerio.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

except they can't

 

its called separation of powers. the fed literally cannot act until the state asks or acts itself. That's the principle of federalism, which very few people seem to understand.

 

they are legally NOT ALLOWED

[The Czech Republic 0]

...but they should've anyway! So what if Blanco was giving Bush a hard time

[Papacita 0]

Ok, to those of you asking about this "sacred bond" as to why blacks identify with each other on a racial level, as if it's some absurd trait that's unique to us only...generally speaking, how often do whites--especially in the mainstream media--differentiate between the individual and the collective when it comes to African Americans. I mean, Czech can say that there's no common ground between Kanye and other blacks, yet you use mock ebonics when trying to mimick his speech. What is that? I've had white people--who at the end of the day I'd say are good people and really didn't mean any harm--come up to me without even knowing me saying shit like "yo, yo, yo homeboy! Wassup G" as if every black person in the world talks like that. You take somebody like John Cena--how many people on this board have referred to this man as a wigger? How many people have looked at guys like Cena and said that he's trying to be black? And I'm not even scratching the surface as far as stereotyping goes in America. And before someone says something, yes there are a lot of blacks out there who help to perpetuate a lot of negative stereotypes about our race--I don't think anyone would deny that--but when you're constantly getting the message from the majority--from those with the most say in the country that you're all alike, why are we wrong for being able to identify with one another and for thinking collectively?

 

And shit, why aren't people criticized for speaking collectively about the 9-11 attacks. We weren't all in New York the day the towers dropped, but would you criticize someone from say...California from looking at the event as an attack on *them* and *their* freedom?

[The Niggardly King 0]

....

[The Czech Republic 0]

you use mock ebonics when trying to mimick his speech.

So does he, evidently:

Like I have Lupe Fiasco [on a Late Registration track] 'cause I feel he's one of the best MCs coming out, but nobody knows about him yet. So if I put him on, that's ill. That's keeping it real.

 

I'm not finnin' to put nothing out unless I can talk shit afterwards.

 

[Adam's] so ill!

 

Whatever happened to making that black music nigga?

[Papacita 0]

Typically, Kanye doesn't come out (in the mainstream anyway) speaking ebonics and comes of fairly articulate in most interviews, and even if that wasn't the case, the point remains that YOU are criticizing the man for grouping himself with other blacks when you're essentially doing the same thing. Now perhaps you meant that as some kinda sarcastic commentary...I dunno, but as it stands, that's a bit hypocritical in my eyes.

[AboveAverage484 0]

And shit, why aren't people criticized for speaking collectively about the 9-11 attacks. We weren't all in New York the day the towers dropped, but would you criticize someone from say...California from looking at the event as an attack on *them* and *their* freedom?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You make a pretty good point in your first paragraph, but the 9/11 attacks *were* attacks on everyone's freedom. A hurricane doesn't discriminate, it just fucks up anything and everything in it's path, regardless of race, creed, or religion. West is trying to make this into some conspiracy theory, which is preposterous. He should have just kept his fucking mouth shut and stuck with what he does best, make music, not try to be some self proclaimed spokesperson for his race.

 

Harry Connick Jr. talked about his city rising above it and someday coming back, portraying hope and optimism, instead of stirring up some unecessary shit storm and trying to turn races against each other. West spoke at something that was supposed to be about raising funds and helping those in need, not furthering his fucked up political agenda by masking it with some claim to African American solidarity.

 

I give credit where credit is due though, I still respect him for at least donating considerable amounts of money for relief efforts. Just wish he would have done it a little quieter is all.

[Vyce 0]

except they can't

 

its called separation of powers.  the fed literally cannot act until the state asks or acts itself.  That's the principle of federalism, which very few people seem to understand.

 

they are legally NOT ALLOWED

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh my god, a voice of reason. You're like a lantern in the wilderness, my friend. It makes me want to weep.

 

The local government did drop the ball, big time, which is why I don't really comprehend questions like, "Gee, why are they giving the NO mayor such a hard time?" Because he fucked up. And now he's blaming everyone else, ignoring his own failings. Such is human nature, and yes, there is plenty of blame to pass around, I just find it incredible that people don't get where the criticism of Nagin is coming from.

 

I've been reading a lot of left-wing blogs these past few days, and I think I've come to a couple of conclusions: many liberals feel this is all Bush's fault, somehow, and many of those same liberals are happy that this disaster occurred because LA & MI are red states. Which, logically, leads me to the odd conclusion that many liberals are happy that this tragedy occurred, but only so far as they can then turn around and blame the deaths on Bush. Yeah......I don't get it either.

 

BTW, Czech, I never knew you were racist. I mean, I don't have any proof of you being racist....never heard or seen you do anything racist. But you've criticized Kanye West, and apparently, that's all one needs to do to be considered racist these days.

[NoCalMike 0]

Ok, to those of you asking about this "sacred bond" as to why blacks identify with each other on a racial level, as if it's some absurd trait that's unique to us only...generally speaking, how often do whites--especially in the mainstream media--differentiate between the individual and the collective when it comes to African Americans. I mean, Czech can say that there's no common ground between Kanye and other blacks, yet you use mock ebonics when trying to mimick his speech. What is that? I've had white people--who at the end of the day I'd say are good people and really didn't mean any harm--come up to me without even knowing me saying shit like "yo, yo, yo homeboy! Wassup G" as if every black person in the world talks like that. You take somebody like John Cena--how many people on this board have referred to this man as a wigger? How many people have looked at guys like Cena and said that he's trying to be black? And I'm not even scratching the surface as far as stereotyping goes in America. And before someone says something, yes there are a lot of blacks out there who help to perpetuate a lot of negative stereotypes about our race--I don't think anyone would deny that--but when you're constantly getting the message from the majority--from those with the most say in the country that you're all alike, why are we wrong for being able to identify with one another and for thinking collectively?

 

And shit, why aren't people criticized for speaking collectively about the 9-11 attacks. We weren't all in New York the day the towers dropped, but would you criticize someone from say...California from looking at the event as an attack on *them* and *their* freedom?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Pretty much agree with your post here. People often refer and identify other races by how the media has unsatisfactorily stereotyped them as. So while people know not "all blacks" act a certain way, it is still common for people to say "John Cena is acting black" I have been guilty of this, but at the same time, I would never say it outside of a circle of friends that did not know I was specifically speaking about MTV-generation/stereotyped black youth.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

Really interesting article in the Sunday Times on Sunday.

 

Earth to the President: warnings ignored at your peril

Andrew Sullivan

September 05, 2005

 

LIKE many seismic events, Katrina's true impact might take a while to absorb. The poverty, anarchy, violence, sewage, bodies, looting, death and disease that overwhelmed a great city last week made Haiti look like a paradise.

 

The seeming inability of the federal or city authorities to act swiftly or effectively to rescue survivors or maintain order posed fundamental questions about the competence of George W. Bush's administration and local authorities. One begins to wonder: almost four years after 9/11, are evacuation plans for cities this haphazard? Five days after a hurricane, there were still barely any troops imposing order in a huge city in the US. How on earth did this happen? And what will come of it?

 

There seems to me a strong chance that this calamity could be the beginning of something profound in American politics: a sense that government is broken and that someone needs to fix it.

 

It did, after all, fail. It failed to spend the necessary money to protect New Orleans in the first place. This disaster, after all, did not come out of the blue.

Below is a passage from the Houston Chronicle in 2001, which quoted the Federal Emergency Management Agency on the three most likely disasters to threaten the US.

 

They were an earthquake in San Francisco, a terrorist attack in New York city (predicted before September 11) and a hurricane hitting New Orleans.

 

Read this prophetic passage and weep: "The New Orleans hurricane scenario may be the deadliest of all. In the face of an approaching storm, scientists say, the city's less-than-adequate evacuation routes would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet (6m) of water. Thousands of refugees could land in Houston. Economically, the toll would be shattering ... If an Allison-type storm were to strike New Orleans, or a category three storm or greater with at least 111mp/h (178km/h) winds, the results would be cataclysmic, New Orleans planners said."

 

Katrina was category four.

 

So what was done to prevent this scenario? There was indeed an attempt to rebuild and strengthen the city's defences. But the system of government in New Orleans is byzantine in its complexity, with different levees answering to different authorities, and corruption and incompetence legendary.

 

More politically explosive, the Bush administration has slashed the budget for rebuilding the levees. More than a year ago, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, told the New Orleans Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the President's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

To make matters worse, thousands of Louisiana National Guardsmen, who might have been able to maintain order, are deployed in the deserts of Iraq, in an increasingly unpopular war.

However, there are plenty of troops and National Guardsmen who could have responded adequately. Iraq holds only 10.2 per cent of army forces. There are 750,000 active or part-time soldiers and guardsmen in the US today. The question then becomes: where were they?

Where was the urgency to get these soldiers to rescue the poor and drowning in New Orleans, or the dying and dead in devastated Mississippi? The Vice-President was nowhere to be seen. The Secretary of State was observed shopping for shoes in New York. The President had barely returned to Washington; and had already opined that nobody had foreseen the breaching of New Orleans's levees.

 

Earth to Bush: the breaching of the levees had been foreseen for decades. If anyone wanted evidence that this president was completely divorced from reality, that statement was Exhibit A.

 

As chaos spread, the President seemed passive. He said on Friday that he was "satisfied" with the response, but not the results. What does that mean? Then he held a photo-op with Senator Trent Lott, whose house had been demolished. "The good news is - and it's hard for some to see it now - that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before," Bush said. "Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house - he's lost his entire house - there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch."

 

According to the official White House transcript, laughter followed that remark. Lott was Senate majority leader until a few years ago, when he was forced to resign because he said he regretted that racial desegregation had taken place in the South in the 1950s and 1960s. So while the poor and the black were drowning or dying, Bush chose to chuckle in the South. It beggared belief.

Why was martial law not imposed? That was a question nobody seemed able to answer. The mayor of New Orleans unleashed a diatribe at the lack of federal response, while Michael Chertoff, the head of homeland security, pronounced himself proud of the work of his department.

 

Later Bush was forced to say on television that the response to disorder in New Orleans was "not acceptable". But wasn't he ultimately responsible? In the 2000 debate with Al Gore, he had said that coping with natural disasters made him, a hands-on governor, better suited to the presidency than Gore, then vice-president. That quote began to find its way on to the talk shows and cable television last week.

 

As for the Federal Emergency Management Agency, it soon became a joke. After CNN had shown scenes of chaos in the New Orleans Convention Centre - with bodies, looters, people dying of diabetes, children lacking basic amenities, and disease spreading - the head of the agency, Michael Brown, went on television and said: "We just learnt about that today, and so I have directed that we have all available resources to get to that convention centre to make sure that they have the food and water, the medical care that they need."

 

To add insult to injury, Bush appeared with Brown and congratulated him for doing "a heck of a job".

 

The President seemed oblivious to reality. One reason why this event may reverberate is exactly that disconnect. Five days after a hurricane, US citizens were still helpless across the region; and yet the president was "satisfied". More than two years after the invasion of Iraq, the road from Baghdad airport to the Green Zone is still not secure, and yet the President has pronounced himself pleased with progress.

 

The resonance was not lost on many Americans. There comes a point at which the central question of this presidency - its competence - overwhelms every other issue. If the President's credibility is shattered at home, how can it be restored abroad? For anyone who wants Iraq to succeed, Bush's response to Katrina can only be grim news.

In Republican circles, one real change may have occurred. In a matter of days, chances of former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani becoming the next president improved drastically. Republicans know when an almighty error has been made. And last week, their president failed them. It will take enormous political work for him to win them back now.

 

The Sunday Times

[Slayer 0]

BTW, Czech, I never knew you were racist.  I mean, I don't have any proof of you being racist....never heard or seen you do anything racist.  But you've criticized Kanye West, and apparently, that's all one needs to do to be considered racist these days.

"Dude, shut the fuck up."

[Papacita 0]

You make a pretty good point in your first paragraph, but the 9/11 attacks *were* attacks on everyone's freedom. A hurricane doesn't discriminate, it just fucks up anything and everything in it's path, regardless of race, creed, or religion. West is trying to make this into some conspiracy theory, which is preposterous. He should have just kept his fucking mouth shut and stuck with what he does best, make music, not try to be some self proclaimed spokesperson for his race.

I hear where you're coming from, and as I said in my post yesterday I don't agree 100% with Kanye's comments, because one his lack of emphasis on the poor in general and two the idea of the government intentionally trying to make black people suffer is extreme, but I think he was spot on in his criticism of the media, because there is a negative slant in their coverage of African Americans in this crisis and on a regular basis, and I just as you can say that 9-11 did effect everyone's freedom, media bias does effect the lives of black people on a daily basis, because when you portray them as animals and as criminals, its going to be in the minds of police officers when they're making arrests, of jurors in criminal cases and so on--that stigma doesn't just go away, and maybe you could argue about the timing of the comments or what have you, but I feel it should be addressed immediately, and I'm glad he put it out there. This has the potential to effect all of us, so I certainly have no problem in him grouping himself in with the people of the area.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Now back to your usual race-baiting and bush-bashing thread.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good lord, you never fail to come off as an arrogant jerk. Who bashed Bush? Who race-baited?

 

Also, from DHS website:

 

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

BTW, Czech, I never knew you were racist.  I mean, I don't have any proof of you being racist....never heard or seen you do anything racist.  But you've criticized Kanye West, and apparently, that's all one needs to do to be considered racist these days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here, lemme help:

 

DAAAYUM MUHFUCKAS DA GUBMENT OUTS TO GET MAH PEOPLE AND NOW DA MEEDA BE OUTS TO GET MAH PEOPLE TOO. AIN'T NO ONE LOOKIN OUT FOR DA BLACK MAN Y'ALLS WANTS TO BE KILLIN MAH PEOPLE AND MAKINS US LOOK LIKE SHEEEEEEIT