Hunter's Torn Quad Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 I repeat: Chris Masters has ZERO chance here. Nothing. Nada. If you guys think Shawn is going to job to Hogan and then go out and job to a heatless rookie, you haven't watched this man for the past decade. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think Masters will win, but I don't rule it out, if only because Vince and company are hell bent on pushing him to the moon. Do I think Shawn would do two PPV jobs in a row? Well, people didn't think Hunter would do two jobs in row in the main event of the biggest PPV of the year. Granted, Hunter did his jobs for different reasons than Shawn would do his, but the basic premise is the same. And I have "watched this man for the past decade", and I've seen how he and his student, Hunter, have worked when it comes to jobs. They are more likely to job to people who are no threat to their spot, or to job in a manner that, not only doesn't hurt them, but might also hurt their opponent. This is a perfect chance for Shawn to not only do a job to someone who is zero threat to his spot, but in the process gain political capital when it comes time to do a job that really matters, to someone who is a threat to his spot. By doing a job that doesn’t matter and doesn’t elevate someone, Shawn has ammo to get out of doing a job that would matter and that would elevate someone.
cabbageboy Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Yeah but the timing here is all wrong for that sort of job to someone. If anything Shawn just needs a nice easy win in a feud to re-establish himself a bit after losing to Hogan. They aren't really hell bent on pushing Masters. As I said, I think this is just a throw shit against the wall to see what sticks kind of push on the lame duck Spike TV shows before they go back to USA...and then Masters will be mostly forgotten.
Hunter's Torn Quad Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Yeah but the timing here is all wrong for that sort of job to someone. If anything Shawn just needs a nice easy win in a feud to re-establish himself a bit after losing to Hogan. They aren't really hell bent on pushing Masters. As I said, I think this is just a throw shit against the wall to see what sticks kind of push on the lame duck Spike TV shows before they go back to USA...and then Masters will be mostly forgotten. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah but the timing here is all wrong for that sort of job to someone. If anything Shawn just needs a nice easy win in a feud to re-establish himself a bit after losing to Hogan. Even more reason to do a job that doesn't matter. Shawn needs a big win, but who else is there? Carlito? He's taken. Snitsky? He's a joke. They aren't really hell bent on pushing Masters. Have you not been watching the mega push he's been given all year? He's been pushed pretty hard since almost the start of the year.
cabbageboy Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Masters hasn't had much of a mega push really. He's challenged a bunch of dipshits from the crowd and some lower card bums like Rosey. In fact the only really decent guy he's even beaten in an actual match is poor Shelton (who is being buried for some reason). Hell they didn't even follow through with the Big Show feud because they probably didn't wanna job Show out to Masters. Two wrestlers have to be on roughly equal levels to have a win mean anything...it's kinda like that Jordan/Benoit fiasco at GAB. In fact in those cases it seriously hurts the more legit guy like Benoit (or in this case Michaels if he jobs). Either way it makes zero sense to job Shawn on the PPV right after he jobs to Hogan. In a way it almost cheapens Hulk's win, do they want that perception?
Hunter's Torn Quad Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Masters hasn't had much of a mega push really. He's challenged a bunch of dipshits from the crowd and some lower card bums like Rosey. In fact the only really decent guy he's even beaten in an actual match is poor Shelton (who is being buried for some reason). Hell they didn't even follow through with the Big Show feud because they probably didn't wanna job Show out to Masters. Two wrestlers have to be on roughly equal levels to have a win mean anything...it's kinda like that Jordan/Benoit fiasco at GAB. In fact in those cases it seriously hurts the more legit guy like Benoit (or in this case Michaels if he jobs). Either way it makes zero sense to job Shawn on the PPV right after he jobs to Hogan. In a way it almost cheapens Hulk's win, do they want that perception? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Masters hasn't had much of a mega push really. He got the build up with video packages. He gets the elaborate entrance. He has two of the three commentators fawning all over him during the entrance. He hasn’t done a job since debuting. He’s rarely looked weak since debuting. He had the six-month gimmick of calling people out and putting them in the Masterlock. Yes, he did it against mostly scrubs, but it’s a lot more than most on the roster get. He’s laid out Ric Flair, who is pushed on commentary as a legend. He laid out Shelton Benjamin, who is pushed on commentary as the best pure athlete on Raw. He laid out Shawn Michaels and left him a bloody and beaten mess. And you don’t see that as a mega push? Two wrestlers have to be on roughly equal levels to have a win mean anything What about the upstart rookie beating the cocky veteran? They aren’t on equal levels, but that win would mean something if booked correctly. Two people do not have to be on an equal level for a win to mean something.
Downhome Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Shawn feels turning heel would make baby Jesus cry. Or conflict with his ‘religious beliefs’. It was one of those. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't this the reason that Sting was acting like such an ass over not wanting to be a heel either?
Hunter's Torn Quad Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Shawn feels turning heel would make baby Jesus cry. Or conflict with his ‘religious beliefs’. It was one of those. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't this the reason that Sting was acting like such an ass over not wanting to be a heel either? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Since the heel is meant to end up getting beaten, you would think good Christian men would jump at the chance to show that the bad guy always winds up losing in the end.
Precious Roy Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Seriously, fuck Shawn Michaels. Dude is PLAYED OUT as a face and he refuses to accept it. He's never had a good run as a face, the guy is just a natural heel. He got by for a year or so on the nostalgia and overcoming injury factor, but that's gone, and there's nothing remotely interesting about his character. The only time he's been must see tv is when he started heeling on Hogan, he started showing that fire he used to have. Seriously, they wonder why business has completely leveled out and shit like this is the culprit. He could resurrect himself and help a hell of a lot of guys get over, and instead we get three years of tepid 'reformed bad boy' bullshit. For all Michaels' talk of being a different person, if he can't seperate himself as a christian from a character he plays on tv it's that same old egomaniac running the show. I don't know what's worse, the god complex or the blind religion.
MillenniumMan831 Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Shawn feels turning heel would make baby Jesus cry. Or conflict with his ‘religious beliefs’. It was one of those. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't this the reason that Sting was acting like such an ass over not wanting to be a heel either? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Since the heel is meant to end up getting beaten, you would think good Christian men would jump at the chance to show that the bad guy always winds up losing in the end. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was pretty much the philosophy of Ted DiBiase. And he was a damn fine heel.
Carnival Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 I think they will put Masters over at the PPV, very cheap win like everyone else thinks. HBK/Shelton would have been a better feud. But like someone said we might as well forget about that. Shelton is currently a Heat jobber.
Black Lushus Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 It's pretty damn obvious when the WWE Champ is off TV by 10:00 pm and Masters is being featured in the 11pm spot for the at least the past month that he's getting pushed to the moon...do I want Masters to win? Nah, but in all reality he probably should if they're going to keep him around for the forseeable future...
cabbageboy Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 It's funny but I've heard Masters compared to the Natural Born Thrillers of late and the comparison is a valid one. WCW made the mistake of having all the New Blood guys as the heels in that feud with the Millionaires Club. So in a roundabout way it did huge damage because the idea was to push the young guys, but in the end we're supposed to be cheering for the old guys to beat down these young punks who are obviously beneath them! It's the same thing with Michaels/Masters now. Every guy they bring up seems to debut as a heel, thus we're not supposed to like him and then most aren't any good in the ring and can't get over that way either. Why is this? Why does WWE bring in rookies and seemingly make all these guys heels? The only guy they brought in from OVW as a face was Eugene, and he's currently more hated than most of the guys on the roster.
Carnival Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 It's pretty damn obvious when the WWE Champ is off TV by 10:00 pm and Masters is being featured in the 11pm spot ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your from the central time zone, don't cater to those eastern bastards.
Dangerous A Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Masters isn't even as good as most of the Natural Born Thrillers. Hell, even Reno and Mike Sanders are better than Masters and I think Palumbo and O'Haire are very much better than Masters when they debuted. I think Jindrak is about level with Masters, and even then, Jindrak is way more athletic where Masters is just a body builder so Jindrak had potential to be better down the line.
Guest *KNK* Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Shawn feels turning heel would make baby Jesus cry. Or conflict with his ‘religious beliefs’. It was one of those. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't this the reason that Sting was acting like such an ass over not wanting to be a heel either? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Since the heel is meant to end up getting beaten, you would think good Christian men would jump at the chance to show that the bad guy always winds up losing in the end. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was pretty much the philosophy of Ted DiBiase. And he was a damn fine heel. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually Dibiase didn't become the christian man he is until after he retired. However if he was, I wonder if he would have done so? I think he would have because he's a second generation star and he knows the traditions of the game.
cawthon777 Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 ...but as HBK seemingly has a phobia of playing the heel now... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shawn feels turning heel would make baby Jesus cry. Or conflict with his ‘religious beliefs’. It was one of those. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If Tully Blanchard and Ivan Koloff can be heel and still go to church, Shawn can too.
EdwardKnoxII Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Shawn feels turning heel would make baby Jesus cry. Or conflict with his ‘religious beliefs’. It was one of those. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't this the reason that Sting was acting like such an ass over not wanting to be a heel either? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. Cause he was the 2nd most over face at the time and it wouldn't have made since to turn him heel. And against Hogan no less.
humongous2002 Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Let's be realistic here, the only time Shawn feels unhappy about something is when he has to do a job. Too bad that WWE picked Masters as their new pet project and HBK as his stepping stone to get over.
The C Man Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 ...Every guy they bring up seems to debut as a heel, thus we're not supposed to like him and then most aren't any good in the ring and can't get over that way either. Why is this? Why does WWE bring in rookies and seemingly make all these guys heels? The only guy they brought in from OVW as a face was Eugene, and he's currently more hated than most of the guys on the roster. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's easier to bring them in as heels. Just tell them to go out and act cocky.
Guest Askewniverse Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Why does WWE bring in rookies and seemingly make all these guys heels? The only guy they brought in from OVW as a face was Eugene, and he's currently more hated than most of the guys on the roster. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John Cena, Randy Orton, and Orlando Jordan were brought in as faces too.
Black Lushus Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 It's easier to have heels come in with zero heat than it is for faces...Heels can establish their heat by doing dirty rotten things, then one day they can become faces after the fans realize they like the guy...if a face doesn't make an impact right away, he's sunk until they make him heel a la Randy Orton and John Cena (as Askewniverse mentioned) and most notably Rock...
Kahran Ramsus Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Fans don't like to cheer for new guys against established stars. That's partly why you always see HHH get cheered against guys like Eugene & Orton. Of the four new stars they've created in the last five years, all four (Batista, Angle, Lesnar & Cena) first got over as heels and ended up getting face pops long before they actually turned face and most actually lost heat after the face turn. Only Batista has avoided a backlash against him out of the four.
Lil' Bitch Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 I thought Lesnar was doing okay as a face during his 8 month run although personally I couldn't stand him being one. I have a feeling Masters will be winning at the ppv, I guess Im the only one? For some reason WWE is high on Masters and a ppv win over Michaels can make his career. Of course theres the little problem of Masters having little heat when not facing a big star like Shawn. I'm sure we'll get a repeat of the Orton / Michaels finish from Unforgiven 2 years since it was pretty much the same situation especially with the whole Legend Killer hype added into it.
RavishingRickRudo Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 I imagine we'll see a very political finish that will not hurt or benefit either Michaels or Masters - wherein the real benefit comes from the _feud_ in Masters getting a "rub" from Micheals and HBK having "something to do" post-Hogan. So something like a DQ-finish, or Masters getting his "heat" back after the loss. I can't see HBK taking the pin fall, but I can't see them jobbing Masters either. Best case scenario would be a heel running in to take out Michaels and a face running in to take out Masters, resulting in a no contest, and branching those two off into different feuds (with a tag match to "settle the score" and conclude the feud.)
Guest *KNK* Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 I imagine we'll see a very political finish that will not hurt or benefit either Michaels or Masters - wherein the real benefit comes from the _feud_ in Masters getting a "rub" from Micheals and HBK having "something to do" post-Hogan. So something like a DQ-finish, or Masters getting his "heat" back after the loss. I can't see HBK taking the pin fall, but I can't see them jobbing Masters either. Best case scenario would be a heel running in to take out Michaels and a face running in to take out Masters, resulting in a no contest, and branching those two off into different feuds (with a tag match to "settle the score" and conclude the feud.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What heel would this be? Because Raw is lacking them right now besides Carlito, Snitsky, Angle and Edge. Edge and Angle already had their cup of coffee with Shawn this year...Snitsky would be ass...Which must leave Carlito.
iggymcfly Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Back on the original topic, I think Shawn has every right to be unhappy right now. For the month leading into Summerslam, he was the only thing worth watching on Raw, and then they go job him clean to a 52-year old, and follow it up by sticking him with heatless Chris Masters. I haven't watched more than about ten minutes of Raw since Summerslam, and it's because there isn't one interesting character on the show. If they told Shawn that he was going to beat Hogan clean at Summerslam and then beat John Cena for the WWE title at Unforgiven, I'm sure he wouldn't have had any problem staying a heel.
KTID Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 If they told Shawn that he was going to beat Hogan clean at Summerslam and then beat John Cena for the WWE title at Unforgiven, I'm sure he wouldn't have had any problem staying a heel. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why would WWE *ever* do something as stupid as this? I mean obviously they are stupid, but this is beyond even the stupidest humans.
iggymcfly Posted September 10, 2005 Report Posted September 10, 2005 Why would it be stupid. It would make the show more interesting which would in turn increase ratings and buyrates.
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