Armageddon main event revealed!

[Hoff 0]

S'all good.

[nl5xsk1 0]

The big bumps I'm talking about require a HHH or Flair style bladejob. We know that the Undertaker should be getting the majority of the offense, and I just don't see Randy willing to do what it takes to sell the beating property (cut up his "pretty" face). He's definitely not taking a monstrous "holy shit" bump, so he'll have to bleed buckets to put over the match and Undertaker's wrath. I just don't see that happening, and that's why I think the decision to do this match is stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think big bumps and blood are necessary in a match. Wrestling existed for a long time without bumps and buckets of blood, and still found a way to showcase the intensity of a match. The best thing that could happen to wrestling would be a decrease in the bumps and blood ... it'd make the two things more meaningful again.

[naiwf 0]

 

 

Have you seen Cena/JBL at Judgment Day 2005? Cena had blood over his entire face. I thought he was going to faint because he lost so much blood. Also why do you think Orton won't do a big crazy bump? Did you forget about Backlash 2004, that was brutal for WWE standards. He took crazy bumps then, why wouldn't he do it now? He has even more reason to go all out now because he's in the damn main event and he's probably the World Heavyweight Champion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So because Cena bled heavily one time, that negates the issue that he rarely ever bleeds? I'm not a fan of big bladejobs, but when you're a brawler and involved in "brutal" matches, blood is kind of a necessary evil. I understand that some wrestlers don't ever go that route, but most of them are either built as indestructible or great technicians. Cena and Orton don't fit either description and that's why they stand out as not really fitting in when they don't end up with crimson masks regularly. And Orton took one bump on thumbtacks, can we stop comparing him to ECW Sabu or even modern day Jeff Hardy?

 

To the last dude who quoted me, if there's no blood or bumps in a HIAC match, I think you can safely throw the match away for good since it's supposed to be a "life changing, career ending/threatening match". Again, I'm just talking about in terms of the way those matches have gone. You can't suddenly neuter the "deadliest" match in the WWE and expect people to pay for it.

[Guest New Jake]

Why are people talking bad of the Batista/HHH match? I thought it was a damn good match, both guys worked their asses off, and HHH finally put someone over. What more could you want?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That HIAC was fucking boring. It just seemed like a cage match with weapons and HHH putting over Batista mattered as much me accidentally killing a lemming cause I sat on it. HHH doesn't deserve credit for putting over worthless, undesirable talent.

 

And I actually disagree with the bladejob statement. Blade jobs are about the best thing you can expect now from an HIAC making it pretty pointless since you can bleed pretty much in any high profiled stipulation match. Taker/Lesnar really was the last great HIAC match on that part. The rest have just been lame.

[Black Lushus 0]

what's the point in having an HIAC match without bladejobs and huge bumps? I'm not saying they have to go all out like throwing each other off the top or through the top, but there should be a bump or two here and there and definently some blading...

[nl5xsk1 0]

To the last dude who quoted me, if there's no blood or bumps in a HIAC match, I think you can safely throw the match away for good since it's supposed to be a "life changing, career ending/threatening match". Again, I'm just talking about in terms of the way those matches have gone. You can't suddenly neuter the "deadliest" match in the WWE and expect people to pay for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe that I'm the "dude" in question. And I'll just C&P what I wrote, since my point wasn't recognized: Wrestling existed for a long time without bumps and buckets of blood, and still found a way to showcase the intensity of a match.

 

My point is simple: people should be able to see that the wrestlers are badly beaten, even if they're not blading or flinging themselvs off a cage or stage. Sell a move, limp, just do the small things to show how hurt you are. Kind of like a football player at the end of the game; even though they're not covered in blood, I have no doubts that they're in major pain.

 

what's the point in having an HIAC match without bladejobs and huge bumps? I'm not saying they have to go all out like throwing each other off the top or through the top, but there should be a bump or two here and there and definently some blading...

Lushus snaked in a response while I was typing mine. Let me address that: they're doesn't need to be buckets of blood or a Foley-esque bump. The first Michaels/Taker HIAC wasn't a bloodbath and people saw how brutal that was.

[Black Lushus 0]

The big bumps I'm talking about require a HHH or Flair style bladejob. We know that the Undertaker should be getting the majority of the offense, and I just don't see Randy willing to do what it takes to sell the beating property (cut up his "pretty" face). He's definitely not taking a monstrous "holy shit" bump, so he'll have to bleed buckets to put over the match and Undertaker's wrath. I just don't see that happening, and that's why I think the decision to do this match is stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think big bumps and blood are necessary in a match. Wrestling existed for a long time without bumps and buckets of blood, and still found a way to showcase the intensity of a match. The best thing that could happen to wrestling would be a decrease in the bumps and blood ... it'd make the two things more meaningful again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

fans have been conditioned against that...they'd shit all over it...fans EXPECT bumps and blood...

[nl5xsk1 0]

fans have been conditioned against that...they'd shit all over it...fans EXPECT bumps and blood...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. But the line should be drawn at some point, and they really should start transitioning away from the blood & big bumps ... for the safety of their wrestlers if nothing else.

[Guest New Jake]

My point is simple: people should be able to see that the wrestlers are badly beaten, even if they're not blading or flinging themselvs off a cage or stage.  Sell a move, limp, just do the small things to show how hurt you are.  Kind of like a football player at the end of the game; even though they're not covered in blood, I have no doubts that their in major pain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It was that exact formula that made the Taker/Lesnar match so succesful. Our, or my point is that formula only worked once. Orton/Taker only has the potential of another crappy HHH HIAC. Only difference is HHH isn't in it.

[Black Lushus 0]

don't get me wrong and don't misunderstand, I completely agree with not needing dangerous bumps and constant blood buckets to make a match special, but it's just what the audience expects anymore...everybody always wants more and more, bigger and better with anything, not just wrestling...remember when putting a guy through a table or a chair shot meant death to the victim? that shit's routine anymore...it's sad, but it is what it is...

 

Unfortunantly for Randy, in order for the audience to truely buy this guy as legit, he's gonna have to bust his ass and hopefully UT makes him look like a million bucks in this thing...if that means blading and bumping, it sucks for him, but that's what he'll have to do...

[nl5xsk1 0]

remember when putting a guy through a table or a chair shot meant death to the victim? that shit's routine anymore...it's sad, but it is what it is...

I couldn't agree more. A chair shot used to mean a guy was going to be stretchered out. Now it's basially a transition move. I really don't think they can flip a switch and all of a sudden stop blading or doing big bumps. But they can start it as a long, gradual process, with this match having less blood or a less-staggering high spots than previous HIACs, and then the next one having less than this one, etc etc.

[Black Lushus 0]

yeah but again, the problem is the guy in the ring...Randy Orton...some people like him, most still aren't buying this guy for various reasons...he's going to have to really have his working boots spit shined and on tight and put on a hell of a match to finally get over the way the WWE wants him too...HHH had to do the same shit back in 2000 with Foley...

[Enigma 0]

I don't think it would be in the best taste to do a Buried Alive match right now.

[naiwf 0]

remember when putting a guy through a table or a chair shot meant death to the victim? that shit's routine anymore...it's sad, but it is what it is...

I couldn't agree more. A chair shot used to mean a guy was going to be stretchered out. Now it's basially a transition move. I really don't think they can flip a switch and all of a sudden stop blading or doing big bumps. But they can start it as a long, gradual process, with this match having less blood or a less-staggering high spots than previous HIACs, and then the next one having less than this one, etc etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't disagree with your point in a standard match. The problem comes with ramping up the importance of a contest when you start adding in stips that are theoretically imposed to get over how much two opponents hate one another. If you tried to do a HIAC now without a major bump, or lots of blood, the fanbase would reject it in a major way especially when Flair and HHH nearly died in a regular cage match not too long ago.

 

Can you gradually wean them down to expecting less? Perhaps. Should you make the HIAC the example where you start that? Absolutely not. I don't think anyone takes the Elimination Chamber seriously, so HIAC is rightly or wrongly viewed as a last resort, and if you diminish it by not including any of the "extras", what separates it from a 3 minute match on RAW?

[Guest New Jake]

A buried alive match was never in the best taset. Nore was it in the best taste to continue this Orton/Taker feud from WM.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Why would Edge demand a #1 Contender's Match when he still has the Money in the Bank??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The storyline has been on and off with that, but I believe the last time it was seriously brought up it seemed that it was only meant for the champ of the brand he was on. Since he would technically be a Raw Superstar stuck on Smackdown, Teddy can simply say that it's void and if he WANTS the champ he has to earn his spot just like everybody else.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Wasn't everyone praising Orton a year ago with his reign as IC Champ, his feud with Foley, and his feud with Benoit/the turn on Evolution?

 

Pretty much.

 

People jumped on the bandwagon is spectacular style the moment he landed in the thumbtacks at Backlash. The Evolution turn was met with mark outs from pretty much everyone on the board. But then the anti-Orton stuff started up as soon as his face run bombed and people jumped on that bandwagon.

 

 

I've got no problems with Orton as a heel. He's hardly a 'terrible' wrestler like the 'haterz' say he is...infact, it's safe to say the people who don't like him over-react far more than those who do. I can't wait for him to win the title, if only for the bitchfest that'll commence here.

 

 

What a load of fucking shit.

 

This is another problem I have with Orton. His fanbase (or what fanbase he has), becides most of them being female, are full of people who are more accustomed to praising a walking ant rather then an actually talented wrestler. Which Orton has never been. Just because a few people here are somehow entertained by this frawd does not mean he's the future of the company let alone good enough to main event or even hold a belt. So much talent has been held back in favoure of pushing this loser and it has failed.

 

These Orton marks are more blind then Hogan marks. There were just as many people against Orton last year as they were now. Just because this board was devoid of some actually smart posters does not mean Orton was over in any degree.

 

1. Devoid of smart posters? Far from it. This board had far fewer n00bs with poor grammar back then, that's for sure. Not that grammar makes your arguement any more or less valid, of course.

 

2. Orton was never over? Incorrect. During his IC Title reign, he was getting pops. As a heel. He must have been doing something right.

 

3. Fraud. And the reason his push failed is because he's a terrible face worker.

 

4. I'm half expecting you to start calling him 'Suckbag Orton' and begin to talk about how terrible Test is. The Orton stuff was cute when Anglesault did it. It's all that humongous guy ever posts about...it doesn't work for him either. Why? Because you're so busy looking through tinted glasses that you seemingly can't be impartial in regards to wrestlers you don't like.

 

5. Orton's had plenty of good matches. I enjoyed his work with Shelton and Edge, although neither program was stellar. The Foley feud was great. Benoit at Summerslam. Taker/Orton at Mania. Taker/Orton II. His work at the end of the '03 Survivor Series match. Orton/HHH at the Rumble, better than it had any right to be. Orton/RVD.

[Adam 0]

They could concievably do:

 

Orton vs. Taker - HIAC for World Title

JBL vs. Edge - Number 1 Contenders Match (Edge can demand it)

Booker vs. Benoit - US Title

Ken Kennedy vs. Rey Mysterio - US Contendership

MNM vs. The Mexicools - Tag Titles

Juvi vs. London - CW Title

 

and for an opener...

 

Lashley vs. Matt Hardy

 

Orton-Taker: meh, it was always going to happen, may as well get it out of the way before 2006.

 

JBL-Edge: Could be decent, but that would mean that Edge would go to SmackDown permanently, and Teddy Long would just happen to forgive him for going against SmackDown for the last two months, and repay him for his hatred of SmackDown with a Number One Contendors match. Unless this is Teddy punishing Edge and putting his briefcase on the line, won't work.

 

Booker-Benoit: The SmackDown spoilers confuse and annoy me, plus this means that Benoit is going to stay with the company, which, in light of recent events, isn't a huge surprise.

 

Kennedy-Mysterio: Assuming Batista isn't as injured as we are led to believe, why not do Hardy-Kennedy and Big Dave-Rey Rey for the belt? I don't like the idea of Kennedy-Mysterio, probably because I really don't see Ken Kennedy anywhere near Rey's level.

 

MNM-Mexicools: Yep, I'd be happy with this. Four lightweights flying around and making for an entertaining match. They need to feud for more than just a throwaway month, though.

 

Juvi-London: Once again, this would please a lot of people. But knowing WWE's booking, we'll get Juvi-Funaki in a battle of the stereotypes, and London will feature on a very special internet-only pre-Heat.

 

Lashley-Hardy: ....nah. This wouldn't do either man any good. Either you have Lashley do another squash, or you put him with a guy that's as big as he is. That's how the monsters work. They squash little guys, they squash medium guys, and then they 'showcase their amazing power' by lifting guys the same size as they are. I suppose if they re-created Matt-Lesnar it would work, but it'd hurt Matt a lot to lose to Lashley. Lashley needs to face (and defeat) someone like a Heidenreich, or a Bob Holly. Just quick, 'dominant' matches. If Snitsky were on SD he'd be a prime candidate for this.

[Dangerous A 0]

They could do worse than Orton/Taker, that's for sure. It's not a bad match, even if HIAC is overplayed right now. Key is Orton has to go over.

 

As it looks right now, Orton doesn't look like a WM main event guy, but if done correctly, and that's a big if with this creative crew of monkeys, they can heat him up and he could get it done. In ring, I have no issue with him. He needs to tweak some things about him like the stupid arm pose he does. I'm not saying to drop his signature pose completely, just change it because the current one doesn't work. He also needs to drop his dad and walk on his own. I think a second run on top, as a heel, will be much better for young Randall K. Orton.

 

I look at potential guys who could get the belt and Orton is the most plausible. While Rey is what is clamored for in the IWC, it's not realistic with how Vince promotes wrestling. I am for it, but I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think the office views Benoit as a top guy anymore, hence him now being stuck feuding with Booker for the US Title for at least the next month and a half.

 

Kennedy isn't ready yet. He'll get there, but if they do it now, fans will reject it. Lashley even moreso. JBL isn't a real answer either and no one wants to see Batista/JBL anymore. Hell, in several newsletters they say internally Batista feels JBL sandbagged it in their matches to make Batista look bad. That may be paranoia, but it's not out of the relm of possibility.

[Guest New Jake]

Wasn't everyone praising Orton a year ago with his reign as IC Champ, his feud with Foley, and his feud with Benoit/the turn on Evolution?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pretty much.

 

People jumped on the bandwagon is spectacular style the moment he landed in the thumbtacks at Backlash. The Evolution turn was met with mark outs from pretty much everyone on the board. But then the anti-Orton stuff started up as soon as his face run bombed and people jumped on that bandwagon.

 

 

I've got no problems with Orton as a heel. He's hardly a 'terrible' wrestler like the 'haterz' say he is...infact, it's safe to say the people who don't like him over-react far more than those who do. I can't wait for him to win the title, if only for the bitchfest that'll commence here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What a load of fucking shit.

 

This is another problem I have with Orton. His fanbase (or what fanbase he has), becides most of them being female, are full of people who are more accustomed to praising a walking ant rather then an actually talented wrestler. Which Orton has never been. Just because a few people here are somehow entertained by this frawd does not mean he's the future of the company let alone good enough to main event or even hold a belt. So much talent has been held back in favoure of pushing this loser and it has failed.

 

These Orton marks are more blind then Hogan marks. There were just as many people against Orton last year as they were now. Just because this board was devoid of some actually smart posters does not mean Orton was over in any degree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. Devoid of smart posters? Far from it. This board had far fewer n00bs with poor grammar back then, that's for sure. Not that grammar makes your arguement any more or less valid, of course.

 

2. Orton was never over? Incorrect. During his IC Title reign, he was getting pops. As a heel. He must have been doing something right.

 

3. Fraud. And the reason his push failed is because he's a terrible face worker.

 

4. I'm half expecting you to start calling him 'Suckbag Orton' and begin to talk about how terrible Test is. The Orton stuff was cute when Anglesault did it. It's all that humongous guy ever posts about...it doesn't work for him either. Why? Because you're so busy looking through tinted glasses that you seemingly can't be impartial in regards to wrestlers you don't like.

 

5. Orton's had plenty of good matches. I enjoyed his work with Shelton and Edge, although neither program was stellar. The Foley feud was great. Benoit at Summerslam. Taker/Orton at Mania. Taker/Orton II. His work at the end of the '03 Survivor Series match. Orton/HHH at the Rumble, better than it had any right to be. Orton/RVD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. Yes, devoid. He was just as redundant last year heel or face. As for the grammar and spelling, who gives a fuck? Why should I give you the dignity of correction when your telling me Orton has a none-existant fanbase?

 

2. Laughable. His IC title run was boring. and the only pop he ever got as heel was in his match with Edge at Vengeance but that soon backfired when he wasted nearly half the match on a fucking headlock, Edge had to carry the rest.

 

3. No, he sucks that bad. He has a terrible in-ring persona. Heel or face.

 

4. What-The-Fucking-Eveeerrrrrrrrrrrrr. If it takes dog shit to impress you then more power to ya.

 

5. His matches are the same for the most part. Crappy moveset piled togeather with a headlock and that lame Diamond Cut...I mean RKO. He showcases no special in-ring psychology whatsoever until whoever he's facing picks up the pace depending on who it is. The hardcore match with Foley was interesting only to the degree where fans got to see Mick back in the ring. His title win at Summerslam was forgettable. Taker/Orton at WM was the only real great contest out of that feud. Taker/Orton II was pathetic, the ending sucked and the match it's self wasn't any better. Orton/HHH? A travesty on both accasions. Orton/RVD? Crap. Utterly crap.

[Black Lushus 0]

you know...I don't think we want OLD jake either...dude, what exactly have you been watching for the past year and a half?

[Guest Zarock]

I am SOOOOO glad I put New Jake on Ignore. I highly recommend it to those who havn't.

 

The HIAC should be good to great given the past matches by the two and UT's Cell track record. Hopefully by then RKO will have turned on his dad by then.

[gWIL 0]

Here's the best I could come up with...

 

Armageddon

 

Hell in a Cell

Orton vs Taker

 

Winner Receives Spot #30 in the Royal Rumble

Matt Hardy vs Rey Mysterio

 

Respect Match

Bobby Lashley vs JBL

 

United States Championship

Chris Benoit vs Booker T

 

Cruiserweight Championship

Juvi vs Kid Kash

 

Tag Team Championship

MNM vs Vito and Nunzio

 

Elimination Match for a Title Shot

LOD2K5 vs The Dicks vs Burchill/Regal vs Mexicools

 

Edit: If Batista is up to, give him a title match against someone as well.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Randy Orton is great when getting his BUTT kicked, so he should be able to have a watchable Hell in a Cell match against Undertaker. Randy Orton also isn't afraid to take some crazy bumps, see his match against Mick Foley from Backlash '04, so we should get the big fall that usually comes with HIAC matches.

 

Could definitely be better than most of the recent editions of the matchup.

[Guest Leelee]

I almost cried when Randall did the bump on the thumbtacks.

 

There's no need for that.

 

Why take a chance on damaging his looks?

[Styles 0]

I almost cried when Randall did the bump on the thumbtacks.

 

There's no need for that. 

 

Why take a chance on damaging his looks?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

His sexy...back?

[CBright7831 0]

Well, to be fair, they got in his "sexy" arms too.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

JBL-Edge: Could be decent, but that would mean that Edge would go to SmackDown permanently, and Teddy Long would just happen to forgive him for going against SmackDown for the last two months, and repay him for his hatred of SmackDown with a Number One Contendors match.  Unless this is Teddy punishing Edge and putting his briefcase on the line, won't work.

 

Kennedy-Mysterio: Assuming Batista isn't as injured as we are led to believe, why not do Hardy-Kennedy and Big Dave-Rey Rey for the belt?  I don't like the idea of Kennedy-Mysterio, probably because I really don't see Ken Kennedy anywhere near Rey's level.

 

Lashley-Hardy: ....nah.  This wouldn't do either man any good.  Either you have Lashley do another squash, or you put him with a guy that's as big as he is.  That's how the monsters work.  They squash little guys, they squash medium guys, and then they 'showcase their amazing power' by lifting guys the same size as they are.  I suppose if they re-created Matt-Lesnar it would work, but it'd hurt Matt a lot to lose to Lashley.  Lashley needs to face (and defeat) someone like a Heidenreich, or a Bob Holly.  Just quick, 'dominant' matches.  If Snitsky were on SD he'd be a prime candidate for this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

1. As I mentioned before, I think it would be sort of a punishment, but it would NOT put Edge on SD permanently. Again, it would be Teddy saying that if Edge wants a chance to get at the Champion (who it is makes no difference) then he will have to earn it. His MITB shot should only be good for the champ of the brand he is on (which is Raw) and Teddy can come out and say this as a Board Of Directors decision or something. He can face JBL because not only does JBL want another title shot, he wants to make himself and his brand look good.

 

2. As for Kennedy/Rey, I was simply hoping that Rey could do his best 'peril' play and make Kennedy look fairly good but still defeat him with his veteran skills at the end of the bout. It would put over Kennedy but I don't think it would make Rey look weak at all if he ended up winning cleanly and convincingly after a tough fight.

 

3. Lashley-Hardy - gah, well, you mentioned Hardcore Holly is still employed right? Let the big angry black man shut down Hardcore in the opener. Rookie vs. Veteran style.

 

I just didn't want to give Holly a PPV match over a guy like Matt Hardy, but he doesn't really have anything to do. Maybe a CW Title contenders match with Spanky vs. Nunzio vs. Hardy?

 

Again, if Batista is healthy, a Batista/Rey, Kennedy/Hardy, Spanky/Nunzio match could be a good trifecta instead of the way they are now. I am just trying to work around Batista's possible absense.

[Guest New Jake]

I am SOOOOO glad I put New Jake on Ignore.  I highly recommend it to those who havn't. 

 

The HIAC should be good to great given the past matches by the two and UT's Cell track record.  Hopefully by then RKO will have turned on his dad by then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh, not my problem if you marks are blind to your own heroes lack of contribution to his sorry name.

[King Cucaracha 0]

1. Yes, devoid. He was just as redundant last year heel or face. As for the grammar and spelling, who gives a fuck? Why should I give you the dignity of correction when your telling me Orton has a none-existant fanbase?

 

Because otherwise, I can't understand what the hell you're saying. Like that last sentence, for example.

 

2. Laughable. His IC title run was boring. and the only pop he ever got as heel was in his match with Edge at Vengeance but that soon backfired when he wasted nearly half the match on a fucking headlock, Edge had to carry the rest.

 

Edge carrying a match? That'll be the day.

 

3. No, he sucks that bad. He has a terrible in-ring persona. Heel or face.

 

What's so bad about his heel persona? And please, try to be impartial when you answer that, rather than come off with the same 'ah, Orton sux0r' arguement you're currently offering up and looking pathetic as a result of.

 

4. What-The-Fucking-Eveeerrrrrrrrrrrrr. If it takes dog shit to impress you then more power to ya.

 

BA-ZING~! Sure showed me. You say he's dog shit and with arguements that deep and meaningful, you MUST be right. Anyone else suddenly miss Fishyswa? At least he put a modicum of effort in.

 

5. His matches are the same for the most part. Crappy moveset piled togeather with a headlock and that lame Diamond Cut...I mean RKO. He showcases no special in-ring psychology whatsoever until whoever he's facing picks up the pace depending on who it is. The hardcore match with Foley was interesting only to the degree where fans got to see Mick back in the ring. His title win at Summerslam was forgettable. Taker/Orton at WM was the only real great contest out of that feud. Taker/Orton II was pathetic, the ending sucked and the match it's self wasn't any better. Orton/HHH? A travesty on both accasions. Orton/RVD? Crap. Utterly crap.

 

Summerslam was forgettable? Forgettable as in most of the board giving it **** at least? Benoit did most of the work, sure (see, impartiality, try it some time), but it was still an excellent match. Orton/HHH was hardly a 'travesty' and Orton/RVD was hardly 'crap'.