OAO Royal Rumble Thread Jan/29th/06

[naiwf 0]

Cena may be a dominant champ, but I don't think he's a babyface champ anymore.

[hyperchord24 0]

Cena hasn't gotten X-pac heat quite yet. Tonight, he may. I wouldn't be surprised by it at all.

[Hawk 34 0]

Eddie Guerrero is true, however Eddie did not crossover like Cena has. I think they cut the legs of Eddie and it seems they don't want to do that with Cena. People are failing to realize Cena has been a dominating babyface champion since WM XX when he won the US title. Not even Eddie was babyface that long.

 

Austin, Hogan, Rock, Foley were cross-over stars, John Cena? hasn't remotely crossed over from anything. His self-made album was a critical and financial failure. His movie has no legs, and was pushed back and likely will fail at the box office (as it should). He's not remotely known in the general public. He can barely make waves in the wrestling community, he's popular with young kids and that's about it. That's hardly a cross-over.

[Promoter 0]

How has Cena crossed over? I've seen him in magazines for his CDs and televsion shows like Entertainment Tonight in the last year. He is not Hogan or Austin levels of crossover, but he has crossed over more than anyone else. Maybe it's a sad state of affairs on the comapny's part compared to the rest of the roster, but he is not getting X-Pac heat. The fans are pretty damn vocal about him winning or losing matches at the arenas. I also don't think he's a big babyface anymore, but the wwe is just stubborn in not wanting to at least make Cena a tweener. You guys please remember JBL had the damn title before Cena and was drawing crowds with numbers as low as 1400 people. Remember that?

[Hawk 34 0]

How has Cena crossed over? I've seen him in magazines for his CDs and televsion shows like Entertainment Tonight in the last year. He is not Hogan or Austin levels of crossover, but he has crossed over more than anyone else. Maybe it's a sad state of affairs on the comapny's part compared to the rest of the roster, but he is not getting X-Pac heat. The fans are pretty damn vocal about him winning or losing matches at the arenas. I also don't think he's a big babyface anymore, but the wwe is just stubborn in not wanting to at least make Cena a tweener. You guys please remember JBL had the damn title before Cena and was drawing crowds with numbers as low as 1400 people. Remember that?

 

That's not being a cross-over. That's WWE promoting Cena.

[Promoter 0]

It seems like some aren't understanding what I'm saying here. Yes, the wwe is promoting Cena, however it's his persona that allows them to get him into other outlets that other stars on the roster wouldn't be able to. That is what I'm talking about. Eddie crossed over for his demographic, but the wwe couldn't then turn around and put him on BET 106 and Park. Yeah, he's marketed towards kids because the wwe already knows how fickle fans like us can be. We turn on people on a drop of a dime. Cena is NOT tanking business as much as people are saying imo. Someone like JBL was as champion because what audience could they really have crossed over with him? Not the hardcore wrestling fans! Not the kids! Not the females! Just people like Vince Mcmahon and even then he didn't pull in those people. JBL was a worse champion than Cena ever was. I would also put Orton on the list.

[snuffbox 0]

But desperatehousewife says wwe isnt family/kids oriented...

[naiwf 0]

It seems like some aren't understanding what I'm saying here. Yes, the wwe is promoting Cena, however it's his persona that allows them to get him into other outlets that other stars on the roster wouldn't be able to. That is what I'm talking about. Eddie crossed over for his demographic, but the wwe couldn't then turn around and put him on BET 106 and Park. Yeah, he's marketed towards kids because the wwe already knows how fickle fans like us can be. We turn on people on a drop of a dime. Cena is NOT tanking business as much as people are saying imo. Someone like JBL was as champion because what audience could they really have crossed over with him? Not the hardcore wrestling fans! Not the kids! Not the females! Just people like Vince Mcmahon and even then he didn't pull in those people. JBL was a worse champion than Cena ever was. I would also put Orton on the list.

 

I'm sure Cena wasn't tapping into the massive Latino market. I sure as hell don't think Cena was getting time on any Spanish speaking station, while Eddie would. You can't pick and choose which market you want to use to support your argument and leave out arguably the fastest growing one. If given the choose between adding in an audience of latinos or those who watch 106th and Park, it's pretty clear which guy would add more to the company.

[Promoter 0]

I never said he was. What I'm saying is Cena crosses over into more markets such as the hip hop market, women, and kids. Hip hop is the biggest music genre today in terms of sales. Why ignore that? It's the same thing as Eddie crossing over for the Latino market and they are going to do that again with Rey Mysterio. This is what I'm talking about things are more than just ratings. If they want to turn Cena heel and do the Rated R superstar angle they can do it with Cena. There's more options with Cena's persona. This is all I'm saying.

[chaosrage 0]

Eddie Guerrero is true, however Eddie did not crossover like Cena has. I think they cut the legs of Eddie and it seems they don't want to do that with Cena. People are failing to realize Cena has been a dominating babyface champion since WM XX when he won the US title. Not even Eddie was babyface that long.

People do realize it. That's why he's been getting boos for the past 6 months. They're tired of the same stale routine.

[naiwf 0]

I never said he was. What I'm saying is Cena crosses over into more markets such as the hip hop market, women, and kids. Hip hop is the biggest music genre today in terms of sales. Why ignore that? It's the same thing as Eddie crossing over for the Latino market and they are going to do that again with Rey Mysterio. This is what I'm talking about things are more than just ratings. If they want to turn Cena heel and do the Rated R superstar angle they can do it with Cena. There's more options with Cena's persona. This is all I'm saying.

 

People don't think "hip hop" when they see Cena. They think "wigger". There's no one in the WWE that has credibility with the "BET crowd" because they don't appeal to that audience. When you looked at Eddie, everything about him related to the Latino audience. Women don't make up that much of the audience or Randy Orton would have been a monster babyface. Kids, I'll grant you. There are many more guys who can create crossover appeal instead of Cena in his current state. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Cena, but as a champion the second half of his run was the drizzling shits because he was getting booed much more than he was getting cheered. Was it funny to watch? Absolutely. Did it kill interest in RAW? Absolutely. Will Cena's 2nd reign fail if it's booked exactly the same as his last one? Absolutely.

[Promoter 0]

Exactly. That was WM XX and here we are now at WM 22 coming up. You see there has not been another wrestler to have this long run as a babyface at the top. That's what I'm getting at. I agree that is why he's getting boos, but a tweak in character I think he can spark the crowds again. He already has heat for his title matches with the crowd split. It's just reminding me of Bret Hart in 1996 and early 1997 with his mixed reaction. Once the wwe got the right character for Bret he was the hottest thing feuding with Austin. Long term I think Cena is the better choice than Edge. This all really depends on HHH's status as well. He may not want Cena or Edge to be the top heels.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

Dam(o)nYankees did Cena really fail miserably?

Is he a babyface champion?

 

Was he getting booed week in and week out against a whiny primadonna in Jericho and an anti-American in Angle? For fucks sake DAIVARI was getting pops in the first blood match.

 

Miserable failure.

 

And aside fro maybe Orton, did any of those champions you listed have the entire core audience turn omn them? Cena should not be rewarded because he was over last March. He was rewarded then, and he dropped the ball.

[Promoter 0]

I never said he was. What I'm saying is Cena crosses over into more markets such as the hip hop market, women, and kids. Hip hop is the biggest music genre today in terms of sales. Why ignore that? It's the same thing as Eddie crossing over for the Latino market and they are going to do that again with Rey Mysterio. This is what I'm talking about things are more than just ratings. If they want to turn Cena heel and do the Rated R superstar angle they can do it with Cena. There's more options with Cena's persona. This is all I'm saying.

 

People don't think "hip hop" when they see Cena. They think "wigger". There's no one in the WWE that has credibility with the "BET crowd" because they don't appeal to that audience. When you looked at Eddie, everything about him related to the Latino audience. Women don't make up that much of the audience or Randy Orton would have been a monster babyface. Kids, I'll grant you. There are many more guys who can create crossover appeal instead of Cena in his current state. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Cena, but as a champion the second half of his run was the drizzling shits because he was getting booed much more than he was getting cheered. Was it funny to watch? Absolutely. Did it kill interest in RAW? Absolutely. Will Cena's 2nd reign fail if it's booked exactly the same as his last one? Absolutely.

 

Yes, they can't book Cena's 2nd reign the same way I agree. If they do, they are just complete morons. However, I think they are going to book him differently based off his promos in the last couple of weeks. I also think the rumours of him getting Rosey and even Bischoff might be true. How do you know if Cena doesn't have any credibility with the BET crowd? I saw Cena on that show and the crowd responded quite well. Females make up a big part of the audience and that's why they have the Divas in storylines more than just being eye candy. The Rock was also in an article in a mainstream magazine around WM XX and it stated that the ratings went down because The Rock wasn't around to help grab the female audience. He was credited to helping make females watch the show.

[haws bah gawd 0]

I want to know why I didn't get the memo that said Mark Henry = IWC GOD? I've watched this guy week-in, and week-out since his return, and aside from Rey Mysterio bumping like a pinball for the guy, I don't see this so-called vast improvement from the guy. Sure, you can almost always have an entertaining match when the David vs Goliath factor is added to it. Who DOESN'T enjoy seeing if little Rey can do the impossible and beat this big lug? Not even Kurt Angle could pull a watchable match out of this slug. If you can look at yourself and say that Mark Henry > HBK, you can not call yourself a wrestling fan.

 

Back to the mid-cards to finish off your 10th year as the most worthless wrestler on the planet, Mark. You wont be missed.

[naiwf 0]

Back to the mid-cards to finish off your 10th year as the most worthless wrestler on the planet, Mark. You wont be missed.

 

The most worthless wrestler on the planet named Mark's last name is Calaway/Calloway/however the hell he actually spells it.

[Hawk 34 0]

 

Back to the mid-cards to finish off your 10th year as the most worthless wrestler on the planet, Mark. You wont be missed.

 

The most worthless wrestler on the planet named Mark's last name is Calaway/Calloway/however the hell he actually spells it.

 

If you are going to make inaccurate statements, learn to spell the name correctly first.

[AndrewTS 0]

Boogeyman winning is a sign of the '80s cartoon gimmick coming back. There's going to be a bunch of new gimmicks, including a 50's style gimmick for Deuce Domino, a roller-skating waitress, a "Fidel Castro" gimmick, and a "Brother Love incarnate" gimmick.

 

Is he joking? I honestly can't quite tell.

[haVoc 0]

This company is something else. Edge does very well as champion so he gets buried. Cena bombs and bombs and gets rewarded. Vince won't admit when something isn't working out and Triple H won't admit when something/someone is. Rey wins the rumble yet he won't get to main event Mania and one of the biggest PPV's of the year is headline by Mark Henry.

 

I was at New Years Revolution and felt like I was a part of something new and fresh. What happen?

[cabbageboy 0]

I've seen some of those on OVW. The greaser gimmick wasn't that bad, but not that great either. I think the Castro Alejandro gimmick is pretty funny actually, I saw that on an OVW house show.

 

As far as Cena goes, I'm on record as predicting Kane's movie will draw more money than The Marine.

 

Promoter, you're being a bit naive though if you think there's this big new Cena title run and all these different directions to go with him. Here's Cena's future: He'll have a horrid, negative heat title run and then HHH will use this to job him big time at WM and get the title back.

 

I do not think Cena is getting X-Pac heat though. X-Pac heat is a sort of groan inducing "I refuse to react...period" attitude when a guy is horribly stale and no one cares. With Cena, people do care....they'll either cheer or boo. No, the guy on the roster who is so not over as to have X-Pac heat would have to be.....

 

Randy Orton.

[Downhome 0]

As far as Cena goes, I'm on record as predicting Kane's movie will draw more money than The Marine.

 

 

Didn't Meltzer also report recently that Vince is very happy with Kane's flick, but is pretty sour on what they have from Cena's so far?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The Orton situation was different, because he was over and then after he beat Benoit he was booked to look like a complete pussy for a month before jobbing to HHH. Then after he lost the title they started booking him like Superman again and nobody bought it because it just came out of nowhere after getting pummelled by HHH. Orton's been possibly the worst booked upper carder that I've ever seen. It is like half the writers hate him and the other half adore him and Orton's performance at a particular show depends on which side gets in the last word with Vince before he goes out there. One week he beats Shawn Michaels relatively clean, the next he's getting clobbered by Undertaker. Just this week he was the last guy eliminated in the Royal Rumble, a few days after tapping out clean to Chris Benoit. There is no consistancy to his booking at all, and as a result his character has a big credibility problem and the fans shit on him whenever he gets pushed.

 

Cena has been booked properly (for the most part) and the fans just aren't responding. The problem is more due to him than the booking. He was going great in the JBL feud, who was a great foil for him. Right now it looks like JBL was far more valuable as a heel than previously thought, and that getting Cena away from him was a mistake. JBL's reward is to be jobbing in 2 minutes to Boogeyman less than a year later. This company can be baffling at times.

[UZI Suicide 0]

HHH is more of a crossover star than Cena. His movie did better than Cena's will, and his weightlifting book has been just as successful as Cena's music.

 

Plus, my mom knows who HHH is. She doesn't know who John Cena is.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Oh btw, the singlet RVD wore last night was the coolest looking one he's had.

[Rob Anybody 0]

As far as Cena goes, I'm on record as predicting Kane's movie will draw more money than The Marine.

 

 

Didn't Meltzer also report recently that Vince is very happy with Kane's flick, but is pretty sour on what they have from Cena's so far?

 

Because Vince always knows what the people want and everything.

[Downhome 0]

Because that's what I was trying to say.

 

When he's sour on his "golden boy's" flick, it just shows how bad things are.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Some of The Royal Rumble PPV was fucking bullshit!!!

 

Pros:

 

- Seeing Gregory Helms return to SD and winning gold again

 

- Mickie James winning

 

- Seeing JBL get DESTROYED in record time!!!

 

- A majority of the Royal Rumble match itself

 

- HHH coming out at number one, I never would have guessed!

 

- The return of Tatanka, Goldust, and RVD!

 

- The final four came down to the top favorites picked to win so I really do think WWE cares more about what a bunch of 12 year olds typing away on their computers have to say than the company wants to admit!

 

- Cena's entrance (they should have just saved that for Mania though)

 

- Even though it was a horrible match, the booking of Angle / Henry did make perfect sense with the cat and mouse roles.

 

- Thank God Angle retained.

 

- The Return of The Undertaker

 

Cons:

 

- I would have been happier if they did a bullshit finish with Cena and Edge. The one time I actually wanted to see a DQ, count-out, or draw happen.

 

- Seeing Mark Henry main event one of WWE's biggest PPVs.

 

- And its been half a year now since the belts switched brands and the World Heavyweight Title is STILL the main focus on co-brand PPVs instead of the WWE Championship! WTF?!!

 

- And finally icing on the shit cake goes to Rey Mysterio winning the Royal Rumble. I thought Randy Orton was favored by Vince and co.? Okay, so yeah he jobs to the Undertaker in their blow-off match. I can understand that even though not liking it, but there is no excuse for not having RKO winning. He was number 30 for fuck's sake! People don't like Orton, but I would have rather had him win than HHH again. Vince McMahon does not have the balls to put Rey Mysterio in the main event of Wrestlemania against Cena or Angle, so this Royal Rumble win, just like 1997 and 1999, was a complete waste of time!

[pochorenella 0]

Been skimming through the various threads for RR2006 and RAW the next night, and since I was there live let me just assure you that the pops John Cena got on both nights were just GIGANTIC, specially at RAW. Of course, there was some dual chanting at the Rumble for both Cena and Edge, but make no mistake about it, Cena was the most over guy on both nights, followed closely by Rey, the Undertaker and RVD (specially at the Rumble), in no particular order. I'm not sure how it came off on TV but by reading the various threads it seems that people think that Cena is getting booed out of the building or something.

[Guest Dr Stupid]

It just seems like Cena got more direction and momentum when he lost the belt to Edge, and he could have quite easily build that to WM, regaining the title there, then HHH can have his moment after that.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

It just seems like Cena got more direction and momentum when he lost the belt to Edge, and he could have quite easily build that to WM, regaining the title there, then HHH can have his moment after that.

 

Haha not a chance. HHH needs his time to shine in the main event of the biggest event of the year.