Wrestling's Top 50 Matches

[World's Worst Man 0]

I'm sure I could name 10 matches that I think are better than Bret/Austin, especially if we're not limited to American matches. Still probably top 20, but I don't know why everyone's discrediting the list already... Let's let it pan out, then analyze, criticize, etc.

 

I for one, am curious to see where it goes from here.

 

I could probably name about 20

 

I must say, it's perplexing to see people who've likely seen very little, if any non-American wrestling get all indignant about a WWF match not being in someone's top10. There is wrestling outside of the US, and there are quite a few matches with rather strong arguments to be put well ahead of the highest-end WWF stuff. If someone wants to talk about match quality or lists and they aren't qualified to talk about the pro-wrestling world as a whole, it's simply a matter of saying "top 10 American matches" or something similar.

[Black Lushus 0]

so it's automatically assumed that a person that would put that match in their top 10 knows nothing about wrestling outside of the US?

[AboveAverage484 0]

I'm sure I could name 10 matches that I think are better than Bret/Austin, especially if we're not limited to American matches. Still probably top 20, but I don't know why everyone's discrediting the list already... Let's let it pan out, then analyze, criticize, etc.

 

I for one, am curious to see where it goes from here.

 

Maybe if TLC III didn't immediately follow Bret/Austin, I wouldn't have a problem. Sure the first TLC is a classic spot-fest, but the second and third ones, while decent, were just rehashes of the first.

 

Let's say we do include international matches. Well then what the hell is Benoit/Sasuke doing so low? I can think of maybe four Japanese matches since 1985 offhand (Misawa/Kawada, Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue, Tsuruta/Tenryu, and Maeda/Fujinami) that are better than that match.

[World's Worst Man 0]

so it's automatically assumed that a person that would put that match in their top 10 knows nothing about wrestling outside of the US?

 

Not quite assumed nor not quite nothing. But the point is that an all encompassing list doesn't make sense if the person has a limited view of the wrestling world.

[Black Lushus 0]

right, I get that, I'm wondering about you basically saying that anyone who would dare put a WWE/F match in their top 10 automatically must have not seen any wrestling outside of this country...am I not reading you correctly?

 

I must say, it's perplexing to see people who've likely seen very little, if any non-American wrestling get all indignant about a WWF match not being in someone's top10. There is wrestling outside of the US, and there are quite a few matches with rather strong arguments to be put well ahead of the highest-end WWF stuff.

 

I mean, if I'm not reading you correctly, then I do apologize, but that's how that comes across to me. I mean, I'll openly admit, I don't have a wealth of knowledge on the Japanese product, so I'll conceed that my opinions are probably moot, but is it out of the realm of possibility to believe that someone who IS well versed in Japanese product could conceivably find a WWE/F match to be the best they've seen for whatever personal reasons?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

As I see it, if you're going to call your list Wrestling's Top 50 Matches, you should have seen a lot of wrestling from overseas. If all you've seen is mostly American, then call it US Wrestling's Top 50 Matches.

[Black Lushus 0]

As I see it, if you're going to call your list Wrestling's Top 50 Matches, you should have seen a lot of wrestling from overseas. If all you've seen is mostly American, then call it US Wrestling's Top 50 Matches.

 

oh I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I said my opinions on this guy's list are moot, that I openly admit, but Misawa's statement that I'm challenging is what leaves a sour taste in my mouth every single time that line of thought is ever approached.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Lushus, what I got from Misawa's comment is that he is just saying that a guy shouldn't be complaining about Bret/Austin not being in top 10 if the person making the list actually had a broader selection of wrestling to rate from. Honestly he is right. Throw Bret/Austin in with all the best matches of the world, and send them out to 100 reviewers to compile a top 10 list and I'd be hard pressed to find even 25 reviewers putting Bret/Austin in their top ten.

[Guest wildpegasus]

right, I get that, I'm wondering about you basically saying that anyone who would dare put a WWE/F match in their top 10 automatically must have not seen any wrestling outside of this country...am I not reading you correctly?

 

I must say, it's perplexing to see people who've likely seen very little, if any non-American wrestling get all indignant about a WWF match not being in someone's top10. There is wrestling outside of the US, and there are quite a few matches with rather strong arguments to be put well ahead of the highest-end WWF stuff.

 

I mean, if I'm not reading you correctly, then I do apologize, but that's how that comes across to me. I mean, I'll openly admit, I don't have a wealth of knowledge on the Japanese product, so I'll conceed that my opinions are probably moot, but is it out of the realm of possibility to believe that someone who IS well versed in Japanese product could conceivably find a WWE/F match to be the best they've seen for whatever personal reasons?

 

Well, I'm versed in the Japanese wrestling products and I think there are a few WWE/F matches that I could concievably put at the first spot. A lot of Japanese fans would strongly disagree with that though.

 

Still for top matches of all time the Japenese have produced some of the best matches ever and their best on average is considerably better than the average best matches of the WWF.

[World's Worst Man 0]

If someone is going to concoct a list of the top workers, matches, etc, they should have knowledge of the wrestling world, not just one region. Just like if someone was going to compile a list of the best musical albums of all times, they should be knowledgable about all genres of music, not just one. I have a problem with people who have a very limited view of wrestling and like to run their mouths off about "best this and best that", while taking an indignant attitude along the way. If someone has seen nothing but mainstream American stuff, then either make a note of that, or just call it "best matches from mainstream American promotions" list.

 

All I said about the non-American matches was that there are pretty solid arguments for putting many matches ahead of the very best WWE stuff. Which to me, means a statement like "any top10 that doesn't include Austin-Bret from WMXIII is worthless" (or a similar statement) is foolish. I never said it was impossible for someone well-versed in all genres of wrestling to include WWE matches in a best matches list.

[Guest Dumb Monkey]

Hart/Austin is arguable, but there's no fucking way the 2001 Survivor Series Match should even be in the Top 1,000, let alone Top 50. Or TLC III.

[snuffbox 0]

Its just the guy's personal opinion. Maybe hes been scared off though...hasnt been a new post in a day or so.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Maybe hes been scared off though...hasnt been a new post in a day or so.

This from earlier in the thread might have something to do with it:

 

 

And to top it off, his thread at DVDVR was deleted when they caught him plagiarizing.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...+Rattlesnake%22

 

Unless he's a writer for wwe.com, he has some explaining to do.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

That link just sends me to google. What did he do?

[chaosrage 0]

Try this one. http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemania22/history/top21 Look at the matches he reviewed.

[Just John 0]

Hm, I really wanted to see what matches would be ranked higher. I was just skimming over "his" analysis anyway. Oh well.

[slabinskia 0]

I would like to post my top 50 but I don't know if anyone would be interested or care and I don't know where to get pictures of the matches from.

[snuffbox 0]

Maybe hes been scared off though...hasnt been a new post in a day or so.

This from earlier in the thread might have something to do with it:

 

 

And to top it off, his thread at DVDVR was deleted when they caught him plagiarizing.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...+Rattlesnake%22

 

Unless he's a writer for wwe.com, he has some explaining to do.

 

Well thats too bad. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Chaosrage was right and is now off my ignore list.

[Special K 0]

All lists are subjective. Objectively, my top ten would probably be completely puro-dominated. But what's the fun in that? Saying why you love a match is more interesting than reeling off psychology and counting blown spots or rest spots.

 

Subjectively, Owen/Bret WMX, Magnum/Tully "I Quit" and Flair Steamboat 2/3 falls would all definitely be in my top 10.

 

That said, I don't think Misawa was being a Puro snob. It's the case of a double negative =/= a positive.

[BruiserKC 0]

The Alliance/WWE match from Survivor Series 2001 has no business being in this list. I watched it and was not impressed. Plus, it was not a question of failing...it was deliberately booked for the Alliance to fail. If there was anyone who thought Vince was going to let the WWE lose that match and go out of business, they were sniffing paint and smoking crack at the same time.

[snuffbox 0]

sniffing paint and smoking crack at the same time.

 

Heh heh...cool.

[World's Worst Man 0]

All lists are subjective. Objectively, my top ten would probably be completely puro-dominated. But what's the fun in that? Saying why you love a match is more interesting than reeling off psychology and counting blown spots or rest spots.

 

Subjectively, Owen/Bret WMX, Magnum/Tully "I Quit" and Flair Steamboat 2/3 falls would all definitely be in my top 10.

 

That said, I don't think Misawa was being a Puro snob. It's the case of a double negative =/= a positive.

 

I think it depends on what's being discussed. If it's a discussion on the best matches, I'd like to think that the strengths and weaknesses of each match will determine their placement (so a fair bit of objectivity). If it's a discussion on favourite matches, then it's just a matter of which matches the person enjoyed the most (completely subjective). The former requires some relevant points to support the opinion, the latter doesn't. And the problem comes when people mix the 2 and don't want to discuss anything. So then you have people firing off "best match" lists, and then they (or even others) say "I don't have to explain why it's there, I just enjoyed it" if anyone questions their picks.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Heh, I'm ready to make my own list now.

[chaosrage 0]

Chaosrage was right and is now off my ignore list.

yay!

[alfdogg 0]

UT/HHH might be the single most overrated match in history. It always seems to pop up whenever a "best WM matches" list comes out.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

UT/HHH might be the single most overrated match in history. It always seems to pop up whenever a "best WM matches" list comes out.

I think most of that is down to the shock at Hunter doing a clean job.

[Guest wildpegasus]

HHH knows who to job to and when. Going in, I knew HHH was going to lose just because that job did not hurt him in the least, gave him leverage in the future and had the possiblity (guessing here) of getting on the good side of the head honcho -- The Undertaker.

[slabinskia 0]

What websites do you go to to get those pictures ?I plan on posting my own list but I would like to use pictures just like this guy did.

[snuffbox 0]

You dont need pictures if you write a decent (and original) list.

[Rendclaw 0]

It has nothing to do with not wanting to discuss it, I'm just saying that taking potshots at his opinions doesn;t do you very much good. You stated your own opinion, that was fine, until you did the same thing a few posts later. Its not like you're going to change anyone's mind by repeating it.