Wrestling's Top 50 Matches

[BruiserKC 0]

So far the list is impressive...people would be mad about Hogan being higher on the list anyway. All I can say is Magnum/Tully "I Quit" from Starrcade '85 and at least 2 of the 3 Flair-Steamboat matches from early '89 (Chi-Town Rumble, Clash of Champions VI, Wrestlewar '89) need to be on the list and pretty high.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Okay, here's how I've always looked at star ratings: You can't judge matches from other promotions against each other, IMO. So what I do is I take a match (Bret vs. Owen from WMX) that sets the standard for the company. It gets five stars, everything else done by that company in that certain time span gets 4.75 stars or lower. For example, few ECW matches would even reach 3.5 stars, let alone 5 stars based against everything else in the wrestling world, but by its own standards you can more easily rate matches. This is probably confusing so I'll just stop.

 

Matches shouldn't get passes because of where they took place. One might not as well use star ratings if there's going to be different standards for every promotion. Every good match in any promotion shares some of the same qualities anyway. After that, one can look for different things based on what kind of match is being wrestled, and then it's just a matter of deciding whether one match did better in it's criteria than the next.

[snuffbox 0]

I am enjoying this thread.

[chaosrage 0]

Ok, the list was going fine until the last one. Whoever gave Hogan/Warriors 3 stars is being generous. The match was fucking awful. There was nothing to it but an excruciatingly long test of strength, punches, a long felt like it was on for 10 minutes headlock, and a bearhug. Seriously one of the worst matches of all time. As bad as the second Hogan/Warrior match was, at least they do more than you know, like 3 moves. For the list to recover after Hogan/Warrior, HBK/Bret ironman would have to be #1.

 

I don't know if you were a fan at the time but you had to be to understand the match. This was BIG and I mean big. This was (and it was built up like this too) superman vs superman, the two biggest , charasmatic and completely indestructable faces pairing off againt each other in the newly formed Skydome in front of at least 60,000 people. This was the up and coming Ultimate Warrior (when compared to Hogan, Warrior was already established as unbeatable) against Hulkamania. A force that had never been defeated cleany. Everyone was talking about this. It was mentioned on the radio. When I went to the school the next day people were talking about it in the hallways. Even my mom was interested in the result. She even watched the match. You get the picture. There really hasn't been a match this big since.

 

I know all of that, but it's still not a good match IMO. It's not even a little good. If you put say, Viscera and Snitsky in the main event of WM and hyped it up and made a huge deal out of it, you would have the equivalent of Hogan/Warrior from WM6. I don't think a match should be considered top 50 just for hype and atmosphere alone. To me, the atmosphere made it even more of a let down. It's like this was such a big match, millions of people were glued to their TVs, and this was the best they can do? This much anticipation for a 5 minute test of strength, a bearhug, and a headlock?

[Rendclaw 0]

I get that you didn;t like the match, you've made your point. None of us were all that smarkish back in those days. We all knew wrestling was fake, but we simply didn;t care. If was fun to watch, unlike 95% of what is being put out there today, but that's another rant for another day. Painting everything with the broad smarkish brush doesn't support your argument very well. You disliked the match, fine. As the man said in his disclaimer, its his opinion, nothing else.

 

I remember watching a tape about two or three days after the PPV and I was hyped as all hell for that match. Considering how limited both Hogan and Warrior were even back then, that was a mat classic for those two. They weren;t going to go hold for hold until the end, they were going to brawl and use power moves the entire time. That's who and what they were, plain and simple.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Ok, the list was going fine until the last one. Whoever gave Hogan/Warriors 3 stars is being generous. The match was fucking awful. There was nothing to it but an excruciatingly long test of strength, punches, a long felt like it was on for 10 minutes headlock, and a bearhug. Seriously one of the worst matches of all time. As bad as the second Hogan/Warrior match was, at least they do more than you know, like 3 moves. For the list to recover after Hogan/Warrior, HBK/Bret ironman would have to be #1.

 

I don't know if you were a fan at the time but you had to be to understand the match. This was BIG and I mean big. This was (and it was built up like this too) superman vs superman, the two biggest , charasmatic and completely indestructable faces pairing off againt each other in the newly formed Skydome in front of at least 60,000 people. This was the up and coming Ultimate Warrior (when compared to Hogan, Warrior was already established as unbeatable) against Hulkamania. A force that had never been defeated cleany. Everyone was talking about this. It was mentioned on the radio. When I went to the school the next day people were talking about it in the hallways. Even my mom was interested in the result. She even watched the match. You get the picture. There really hasn't been a match this big since.

 

I know all of that, but it's still not a good match IMO. It's not even a little good. If you put say, Viscera and Snitsky in the main event of WM and hyped it up and made a huge deal out of it, you would have the equivalent of Hogan/Warrior from WM6. I don't think a match should be considered top 50 just for hype and atmosphere alone. To me, the atmosphere made it even more of a let down. It's like this was such a big match, millions of people were glued to their TVs, and this was the best they can do? This much anticipation for a 5 minute test of strength, a bearhug, and a headlock?

 

If someone can link me up to a download so I can watch the match again I'd be able to comment better on it.

 

 

Viscera and Snitsky couldn't be pumped up like that. The fans wouldn't buy it as well. Hogan had years of credibility behind him and Warrior despite not having as much time was credible as well.

 

Certain matches have advantages over others. Hokuto and Kandori had the advantage of Hokuto's past and the interpromotional thing. Benoit vs Orton from Raw of 2004 had storyline advantages. Ravishing Rick Rude vs the Warrior at Slam had advantages. The Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask had some story advantages in 4/83. Benoit/HHH/Shawn or Flair and Vader and so on. Your typical wrestling match does not that these advantages and is obviously at a disadvantage for having a better match. When you do have a storyline advantage it's than up to you to seize the day and produce a great match out of whatever fortunate situation you have.

 

This is what Hogan and the Warrior did at Mania. The way I remember the match is that if you go in with the mindset you're supposed to have than the match itself plays to that mindset and thus makes it better. Someone else could copy this match move for move and it wouldn't be as good. Sure, it'd be just as good technically but it would not be the same. THis is why I think people looking back at this match are underrating it. They weren't there at the time so they don't understand the mindset and thus they unfortunately don't get it the way they should.

 

 

Forvige me but it's been years since I've seen this.

 

The 5 minute knucklelock is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. It's the indestructable force against the immovable object (Perfect quote there by Monsoon at the Rumble) which is a central theme of this. The move perfectly fits the match where as if it was in another match it wouldn't be. Who's gonna win this? Who's more powerful? Warrior or Hogan? Fans had been asking this to themselves for a long time but it wasn't till than that we were gonna find out.

 

The bear hug. If I remember correctly this also played into each wrestler's powerful aura as I believe the guy in the bearhug *hulks up.

 

I believe there's a doubleknock down spot in this as well. Maybe after a clothesline spot. Beautiful spot to put in a match like this.

 

One thing I do remember were the hulkups (I'm calling Warrior's shaking of the ropes a hulkup for convience) in the bout. So much of Hogan's (especially) and Warrior were there individual hulkups which were a symbol of their indestructability. So much anticipation in this match was on what would happen when that irresistable object and that imovable force actually hulked up in a match against the other. Would they cancel each other out? Would someone actually get the better of the other? Would a hulk up finally be stopped by one of the two most powerful forces in the universe? For that matter, would the universe e plode? Would the Military press by the warrior which was NEVER kicked out of before this stop Hogan? Would Hogan be able to kick out of that? Would he be able to hulk out of it?

 

So many questions and the bout did a nice job of taking advantage of the fans' questions/anticipation. The bout had a nice flow, it was epic and it played to the strength of each wrestler's charactor. From memory I say it definitely reached the 4 star mark.

[chaosrage 0]

You disliked the match, fine. As the man said in his disclaimer, its his opinion, nothing else.

 

Um, what else would it be but his opinion? What's the point of saying this? You don't want us to discuss his list? Well, too bad.

[Human Fly 0]

I felt that the commentary in Warrior v. Hogan was fantastic at conveying the big match atmosphere as well. Some of Ventura's best color ever IMO.

 

Warrior hits the splash and Ventura starts yelling almost in disbelief: "It's over! It's over! It's over if he can turn him over!"

 

There were so many variables that make this match impossible to duplicate in today's climate (Austin v. Rock at X7 was probably the closest in recent history but that was even a far cry).

First of all faces hardly faced one another in 1990. It is not a common occurrence now, but it was almost unheard of back then.

Second, Warrior had not had a high profile loss (I am not counting CO or DQ) in a year. Hogan had been even longer. It is almost impossible to replicate that now in an era where jobbers are only used on the internet.

 

Also, little things like the fireworks going off after the match were even a big deal then. Now, if Sean Waltman shows up at the Royal Rumble you can bet he will have enough pyro to singe everyone's eyebrows in the building.

[snuffbox 0]

chaos rage - its nice that you read the observer in 1990...now youre on ignore so you cant drag a good thread down.

[chaosrage 0]

chaos rage - its nice that you read the observer in 1990...now youre on ignore so you cant drag a good thread down.

 

Thanks for posting and telling me about it.

[bob_barron 0]

chaos rage - its nice that you read the observer in 1990...now youre on ignore so you cant drag a good thread down.

 

Yea, God forbid he disagree with someone

[snuffbox 0]

I dont mind the disagreement. Im just reading this thread as though it were a very long article...I want to read the guy's top 50 matches without other opinions in the way. I will remove chaosrage from my ignore list after #1 is posted.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hogan vs. Warror I was not a good match, and it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be a great spectacle. And it was. Even if watching it the next morning you could see how bad a match it was, but good for the standards of Hogan and Warrior, on the night it mattered, it did what it set out to do.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Warrior vs. Hogan I was a spectacle. If one watches wrestling to see good wrestling, it wasn't a good match. It's really no different from a match like Kobashi-Akiyama (7/10/04), in that some people mark for it, but it really wasn't a great match from a "quality wrestling" standpoint. It was a spectacle, and some people like that sort of stuff. And this list doesn't seem to be based solely on the quality of the match, that's why Warrior-Hogan is on it.

[Guest C3THIR]

 

40. Team WWF vs. Team Alliance (Survivor Series 2001)

 

Many say that the WCW Invasion failed and was horrible. While that may be true, there is no denying that some of the matches produced from that era were outstanding. This is one of them. The final match from that particular era. After months of feuding, the WCW/ECW Alliance challenged the WWF to a Winner Take All Match at Survivor Series where the losing company went out of business forever.

 

The Rock, Chris Jericho, Undertaker, Kane and The Big Show took on Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Rob Van Dam and Shane McMahon in a great elimination match. Everything meshed well together and flowed perfectly. Some of the main spots such as all of the Alliance guys eliminating Big Show and then on the flipside, all the WWF guys hitting their signature moves on Shane McMahon and eliminating him stand out.

 

Towards the end of the match, Chris Jericho was eliminated, leaving The Rock to fight off Stone Cold Steve Austin and Kurt Angle alone. He then completed his heel turn by attacking The Rock, but the attack didn't work as The Rock eliminated Kurt Angle who then double-crossed The Alliance and enabled Rock to pin Austin following a picture perfect Rock Bottom. Afterwards, Vince and The Rock celebrated in the ring and on the stage respectively, ending not only a failed angle, but one of the best matches ever.

 

Match Rating: ****1/2

[Guest C3THIR]

 

39. Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart (WrestleMania 13)

 

This is the match where WWE fans really started to get behind the Texas Rattlesnake. Bret “Hit Man” Hart had started to become increasingly upset that the WWE fans were starting to get behind Superstars that defied authority and didn’t follow the same strong moral code that he did. Hart felt the Superstars that fit that description were going to ruin WWE, and no one fit that description more than Stone Cold.

 

The rivalry had been taken to a new level over the previous weeks, and a simple match wouldn’t be enough to settle the score. A Submissions Match was signed and UFC legend Ken Shamrock was brought in as a special referee. The match started out as a vicious brawl right from the outset, however, as Hart and Stone Cold battled on the outside.

 

Once the action returned to the ring, Hart began to work on Stone Cold’s knee, softening him up for the Sharpshooter. Bret continued to go to work on the leg and locked in a figure four leg lock around the steel ring post. Austin somehow comes back with a slurry and locks in an armbar and a Boston Crab trying to make Hart submit. Austin then tried using Hart’s own move and locked in the Sharpshooter, but the Excellence of Execution was able to counter out of it.

 

Hart and Austin continued brawling using the ring bell and cables to try and wear each other down. Austin became busted wide open and was bleeding profusely. Hart was able to lock in his Sharpshooter on Austin’s already softened up leg. In a classic WWE moment, Austin is screaming in pain from the Sharpshooter as blood is pouring from his face and onto the mat. Austin refused to give up, but he eventually passed out, and Shamrock declared Hart the winner. Although he had already won, Hart begins beating on Austin even more before Shamrock put an end to it. After seeing such a heroic effort from Austin, the formerly pro-Hart audience became pro-Stone Cold and they never really looked back.

 

Match Quality: ****

[AboveAverage484 0]

Woah, that last one's kind of a shock. One of the top ten American matches of all time, IMO. Well, it's your opinion so mine is moot I guess.

[Guest C3THIR]

 

38. Tables, Ladders & Chairs III (SmackDown 2001)

 

The TLC match was first seen at SummerSlam 2000. It was a great match. We saw the second installment of it at WrestleMania X7. Again, it was a great match. The third TLC match was the best of the five that have taken place thus far. Prior to this SmackDown, Jericho and Benoit had defeated Stone Cold and the now injured, Triple H for their Tag Team Titles. McMahon and Austin saw fit to punish the two, so they booked a TLC match, sure that they would lose their Tag Team Titles.

 

Jericho and Benoit defended their titles against Edge and Christian who had until this point, never lost a TLC match. Also involved were Matt and Jeff Hardy and the Dudley Boyz. The action was intense, and fans everywhere were on the edge of their seats. In the middle of the match, Jericho was left alone as Benoit dove from the top rope to the outside of the ring and exploded through a table after Matt Hardy rolled off of it.

 

At the end of the match, Benoit made his way back down to save his partner and together, they won the match and retained their titles. To me, this was the best TLC match, despite the opinions of others. But this is my opinion, and this match deserves to be ranked here.

 

Match Quality: ***1/2

[World's Worst Man 0]

Woah, that last one's kind of a shock. One of the top ten American matches of all time, IMO. Well, it's your opinion so mine is moot I guess.

 

I agree. It was good in a wrestling quality kind of way, and it was the sort of match that the casuals would cream for too. Lots of drama and blood and stuff. Oh well, whatever.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Hogan vs. Warrior and Hogan vs. Andre are both GOOD WRESTLING matches. I fail to see how either are terrible, both are really smart truth be told. What more could you want? Psychology, story telling, character work, and in Hogan/Warrior's case even a decent moveset for it's time and place. It's all here. Hogan had better matches with Race, Flair, and Savage but the other two are still very good.

 

Anyway, I don't see this list going anywhere good or remotely interesting. Sorry, nice to see somebody at least take the time to describe their choice though.

[iggymcfly 0]

TLC 3 was hardly even a good match, and it certainly wasn't a great one. It was a weakly strung together spotfest with a cliche storyline (wrestler returns from mid-match injury to win) and an obvious ending. It wasn't better than TLC I or TLC II, let alone Austin/Bret.

 

I thought I knew the criteria for your list, but apparently I have no idea. If you're ranking them based on a combination of their star rating and their historical significance, then how the hell does a ***1/2 match from Smackdown go ahead of a **** WM match that was perhaps the biggest turning point that decade for the WWF or for that matter a ****1/2 match that main evented Survivor Series?

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Is there any rhyme or reason or do you just post whatever good-great match that you remember first?

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out reasoning for Hart/Austin being so low. It's one of those matches everybody loves, and it's probably got more historical significance than any other match in its era, excepting Bret/Shawn "screwjob" match. TLC III barely makes the top 50 matches of its decade, let alone the past twenty years. To each their own, I guess, though if I see Bret/Owen, the Shawn/Razor ladder match, or Rey/Eddie anywhere in the next few matches, this list loses what little credibility it had.

[chaosrage 0]

TLC 3 was hardly even a good match, and it certainly wasn't a great one. It was a weakly strung together spotfest with a cliche storyline (wrestler returns from mid-match injury to win) and an obvious ending. It wasn't better than TLC I or TLC II, let alone Austin/Bret.

 

I thought I knew the criteria for your list, but apparently I have no idea. If you're ranking them based on a combination of their star rating and their historical significance, then how the hell does a ***1/2 match from Smackdown go ahead of a **** WM match that was perhaps the biggest turning point that decade for the WWF or for that matter a ****1/2 match that main evented Survivor Series?

 

Yeah, the list makes completely no sense.

 

And to top it off, his thread at DVDVR was deleted when they caught him plagiarizing.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...+Rattlesnake%22

 

Unless he's a writer for wwe.com, he has some explaining to do.

 

Pity the DVDVR thread is gone, I would have loved to see the reaction to TLC 3 getting placed higher than Austin/Bret.

[MikeJordan23 0]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out reasoning for Hart/Austin being so low. It's one of those matches everybody loves, and it's probably got more historical significance than any other match in its era, excepting Bret/Shawn "screwjob" match. TLC III barely makes the top 50 matches of its decade, let alone the past twenty years. To each their own, I guess, though if I see Bret/Owen, the Shawn/Razor ladder match, or Rey/Eddie anywhere in the next few matches, this list loses what little credibility it had.

 

I agree. Any list that doesn't have Austin/Bret WM 13 in their top 10 is null and void to me.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out reasoning for Hart/Austin being so low. It's one of those matches everybody loves, and it's probably got more historical significance than any other match in its era, excepting Bret/Shawn "screwjob" match. TLC III barely makes the top 50 matches of its decade, let alone the past twenty years. To each their own, I guess, though if I see Bret/Owen, the Shawn/Razor ladder match, or Rey/Eddie anywhere in the next few matches, this list loses what little credibility it had.

 

I agree. Any list that doesn't have Austin/Bret WM 13 in their top 10 is null and void to me.

 

While I have no problem with Bret and Austin being a top 10 match of the last 20 years (since I love it so much) I also have no problem with it not being in the top 10. There have been a tonne of superb matches over the last 20 years. Several joshi puroresu matches, several All Japan matches, several New Japan matches, some Stampede matches, some WWF matches, some WCW matches, a couple of matches I've seen from Michonoku Pro, some lucha matches blew me away.

 

The point I'm getting at is there are a lot of different matches that can possibly make that top 10.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out reasoning for Hart/Austin being so low. It's one of those matches everybody loves, and it's probably got more historical significance than any other match in its era, excepting Bret/Shawn "screwjob" match. TLC III barely makes the top 50 matches of its decade, let alone the past twenty years. To each their own, I guess, though if I see Bret/Owen, the Shawn/Razor ladder match, or Rey/Eddie anywhere in the next few matches, this list loses what little credibility it had.

 

I agree. Any list that doesn't have Austin/Bret WM 13 in their top 10 is null and void to me.

 

While I have no problem with Bret and Austin being a top 10 match of the last 20 years (since I love it so much) I also have no problem with it not being in the top 10. There have been a tonne of superb matches over the last 20 years. Several joshi puroresu matches, several All Japan matches, several New Japan matches, some Stampede matches, some WWF matches, some WCW matches, a couple of matches I've seen from Michonoku Pro, some lucha matches blew me away.

 

The point I'm getting at is there are a lot of different matches that can possibly make that top 10.

 

So far, all he has had are American matches. If that's the case, Bret/Austin should definitely be higher than what it is now.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out reasoning for Hart/Austin being so low. It's one of those matches everybody loves, and it's probably got more historical significance than any other match in its era, excepting Bret/Shawn "screwjob" match. TLC III barely makes the top 50 matches of its decade, let alone the past twenty years. To each their own, I guess, though if I see Bret/Owen, the Shawn/Razor ladder match, or Rey/Eddie anywhere in the next few matches, this list loses what little credibility it had.

 

I agree. Any list that doesn't have Austin/Bret WM 13 in their top 10 is null and void to me.

 

While I have no problem with Bret and Austin being a top 10 match of the last 20 years (since I love it so much) I also have no problem with it not being in the top 10. There have been a tonne of superb matches over the last 20 years. Several joshi puroresu matches, several All Japan matches, several New Japan matches, some Stampede matches, some WWF matches, some WCW matches, a couple of matches I've seen from Michonoku Pro, some lucha matches blew me away.

 

The point I'm getting at is there are a lot of different matches that can possibly make that top 10.

 

So far, all he has had are American matches. If that's the case, Bret/Austin should definitely be higher than what it is now.

 

You must have forgotten about Lyger vs Sasuke so it does indeed look like international matches are included.

[Black Lushus 0]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out reasoning for Hart/Austin being so low. It's one of those matches everybody loves, and it's probably got more historical significance than any other match in its era, excepting Bret/Shawn "screwjob" match. TLC III barely makes the top 50 matches of its decade, let alone the past twenty years. To each their own, I guess, though if I see Bret/Owen, the Shawn/Razor ladder match, or Rey/Eddie anywhere in the next few matches, this list loses what little credibility it had.

 

I agree. Any list that doesn't have Austin/Bret WM 13 in their top 10 is null and void to me.

 

ditto...no need for me to read this thread any further.

[Just John 0]

I'm sure I could name 10 matches that I think are better than Bret/Austin, especially if we're not limited to American matches. Still probably top 20, but I don't know why everyone's discrediting the list already... Let's let it pan out, then analyze, criticize, etc.

 

I for one, am curious to see where it goes from here.