OAO Raw Thread for 1/30/06

[Downhome 0]

I can't believe that some people are trying to take up for Cena. Just take a look at the crowd reactions to him over the past few months. You'd have to be blind to not be able to understand that the fans were turning on him, more and more with each and every week. It got to the point where their number one face was their most over heel on the entire show.

 

Then look at everything they did to try to get him over and keep him over. I mean, seriously, it was a failure unlike most others.

[cabbageboy 0]

Promoter, interesting you mention Dec. 96. Cause that's what they treated Edge like last night....Sid. The irony of that is that Sid was ratings death when he had the title after beating Shawn, so they panicked and put it back on Shawn at the Rumble. The odd irony is that Sid ended up getting it back due to circumstances and defended at WM.

 

Edge is obviously a much hotter heel than friggin SID. His TLC match with Flair was the highest rated match on Raw in a year....was that because people thought "OMG, Cena might do a run in! I better watch!"

 

Anyway, why would RVD do a run in on that Carlito/Masters match tonight? What would be the point of that? If anything it looks like Carlito/Masters might win the tag belts or maybe do a breakup feud when they screw each other over.

 

And no, I do NOT want to see RVD in yet another makeshift tag team.

[Carnival 0]

I don't really mean Cena's reign destroyed the ratings, I don't know, I didn't really follow the ratings. But he tanked like fuck as a babyface. Part of it is his fault and part of it is the contstant superman push WWE gave him. If they continue that, Cena will continue to be booed.

 

I liked watching Cena matches, not cuz he's a good wrestler(lol) but cuz the crowd was always white fucking hot. I loved the 50/50 split, but later in his reign it became 60/40...and at NYR he was full blown heel. I liked the hot crowds, but it's never good for business when your #1 babyface is getting booed out of the building.

[Promoter 0]

I can't believe that some people are trying to take up for Cena. Just take a look at the crowd reactions to him over the past few months. You'd have to be blind to not be able to understand that the fans were turning on him, more and more with each and every week. It got to the point where their number one face was their most over heel on the entire show.

 

Then look at everything they did to try to get him over and keep him over. I mean, seriously, it was a failure unlike most others.

 

 

It's not that I'm taking up for Cena and ignoring the obvious. I just think there is a huge over-exaggeration of Edge being this great champion. Cena has HEAT. It's not the heat the wwe wants, but he has heat. It's just what they will do with that heat. Maybe I just think Cena can still do good at the top if they use him right. They aren't at the moment.

[hyperchord24 0]

I don't really mean Cena's reign destroyed the ratings, I don't know, I didn't really follow the ratings. But he tanked like fuck as a babyface. Part of it is his fault and part of it is the contstant superman push WWE gave him. If they continue that, Cena will continue to be booed.

 

I liked watching Cena matches, not cuz he's a good wrestler(lol) but cuz the crowd was always white fucking hot. I loved the 50/50 split, but later in his reign it became 60/40...and at NYR he was full blown heel. I liked the hot crowds, but it's never good for business when your #1 babyface is getting booed out of the building.

I don't really care about the fact that it's not good that your no. 1 babyface is the most over heel on the roster. All I care about are the crowd reactions. I loved that one RAW about a month ago, where the crowd was freakin' going crazy. It was quite a dynamic. A quick pop for some Cena offense, followed by resounding booing by the whole arena. While I don't like the title switch from Edge, easily the highlight of the night tonight for me will be their rematch and any mic time they give Cena. Just like cars that drive past a car accident, I can't help but watch Cena's babyface run tank again.

[Promoter 0]

hyperchord24, you are kind of stating what I'm thinking. Cena's heat is strange to say the least and it creates a dynamic that is foreign to wrestling. Cena won't get those crowd reactions without the strap. Take Cena out of the title picture and we'll just end up back with more or less heatless matches with HHH. Not knocking on HHH because I see him differently than a lot on the net. It's just that the title matches have more spark with Cena as champion. Going with Edge and HHH will just lead to HHH regaining the belt and getting cheered then HHH turning back heel and we're back to 2003 again. I think the wwe is not being short-sighted here, but we'll see.

[Downhome 0]

I still don't exactly get your point. Is it all just based on a ton of "what if" instead of reality? Like, what if they do the right thing with Cena's heat, etc...?

 

I don't think there is any question that Edge was a success as champ either. If you know me, you know that I'm not an Edge fan by any stretch of the imagination. Just ask Bob and CanadianChick what my opinion of Edge has been since he broke into singles.

 

However, since his feud with Matt Hardy, I have seen the guy improve quite a lot, both in terms of character and a little bit in the ring. He had the entire MITB angle going, and finally cashed it in at the perfect time. The Cena hate was reaching something of a climax, they pulled the trigger on Edge, and the fans in that area went insane cheering for the guy like he was the second coming - this was mainly due to everyone being so fucking happy that Cena was no longer the champ.

 

Then on the following RAWs, in my opinion, Edge really solidified himself as a main even level world champ heel. All of his shit with Lita really got under everyone's skin, and he did what a true heel does - he got to the point where the fans loved to hate him. Contrary to what many people believe, you can have a heel that is so great at what he does, that he actually is the main draw instead of whatever face is trying to top him. Edge didn't reach the climax of something like that like we've seen from the really great heels of the past twenty years, but he did reach it to a certain point. The fans loved to hate him, period.

 

His work with Flair in the TLC match was fantastic as well, and while many fans wanted Flair to beat Edge, once Edge finally did beat him the fans started to respect Edge even more, while still giving him the proper heel heat.

 

Then we have the "new" Cena. They let him go out and talk about being hated, and that was great, it was the first step to get some fans back on his side, and it worked for a few weeks. They allowed him to go back in time just a little bit, and many of the haters got back on board, mainly because Edge was doing such a great job as a heel.

 

Then when we hit PPV, Cena just beats Edge in the middle of the ring, cleanly. The only result that can come from this is a total backlash against Cena unlike what we've seen before. It may not be way huge tonight, but over the next few weeks you'll see the fans turn on Cena way more than what you've seen in the past. Fans were getting behind the guy because he wasn't the champ, and the PPV undid all of that. As for Edge, his stock really fell last night in the eyes of the fans. There is this great new heel that was being booked in a great way, and he just up and jobs perfectly clean to the guy that the fans didn't want to see as the champ anyway.

 

Depending on what they do tonight, we could see both of these guys have their careers damaged for quite some time.

 

I will agree that the only good that will come from giving Cena the strap back, is watching the fans once again turn on him. Hell, it started last night before the match was over when the fans noticed that he was about to beat Cena clean. I do love watching when shit like that happens, much like a car crash.

[Promoter 0]

I'm not basing stuff off "what if". Vince Mcmahon is not THAT stupid to not know Cena is not liked by half the audience. They know and they have acknowledged it. Step one.

 

Step Two. They know Cena is getting heat because he's turned into Superman. He still goes over the roster at NYR. They have Edge cash in on the MITB title shot. Cena is still protected. There is a sense of relief and Cena's backlash falls off.

 

Step Three. They know some fans are liking Edge's reign and must know why some fans were turning on Cena as wwe champion.

They re-push Cena back into the title picture and make him win.

 

Step Four. Cena is still seen as a monster champion and gears up for his match with HHH. Now if the fans take to Cena more as a babyface that dethroned Edge it works. If fans are more angered at Cena for dethroning the hated Edge it's still money.

 

Step Five. Turn Cena full heel at WrestleMania by continuing his push as Hulk Hogan 2006 by going over even Triple H whom fans may very well be fully behind. Put him with Vince Mcmahon who recently claimed it's all about turning back the clock to sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Give Cena back up because he can't trust no one in the dressing room and you got a monster heel.

 

All I'm saying is that I think the wwe is not oblivious to the obvious that the net and the arenas are telling them. Add in some of the rumours that have been floating around and see how the overall picture plays out first. Again, if the wwe doesn't tweak Cena then they are just hard asses.

[snuffbox 0]

Of course theyre not oblivious to it...thats why they mute the crowd, use a fake crowd reaction, and apparently are hiring seat-fillers.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

All I'm saying is that I think the wwe is not oblivious to the obvious that the net and the arenas are telling them.

They're not oblivious. They don't care. They want Cena to be the man, and he's failed in staying a babyface, and crossing over with a CD and movie. They just don't care. Cena is their guy, and they will destroy whomever they need to until he is *The Guy*. They tried to kill Angle. They may have ruined Edge. But Dog Gonnit, Cena's going to be the man regardless of what anyone thinks

[Promoter 0]

Yeah, I guess the wwe was oblivious to the crowds wanting Kurt Angle to become a world champion too and not turning Boogeyman face after the crowd reactions. Yes, I do agree about them not caring as well. Obviously, Vince is still making money and has no competition. If they do force this babyface Cena they are just complete idiots. That can't be that clueless can they?

[Downhome 0]

The problem in all of this, is that they aborted a fantastic, and proven champion (I don't care what anyone says, Edge proved his worth over the past few weeks), in Edge and used him as a pawn in the Cena/HHH story.

 

Unless they do something soon, like tonight, to make Edge look stronger than ever then they have possibly destroyed him for good.

 

Why would they do this for Cena, after he's been a joke for so long? It's nothing new, but..."it just doesn't make sense".

[Downhome 0]

I think they turned Angle heel and gave him the title because he was vocal backstage about being VERY unhappy about what they were doing with him and making him say, and about them not letting him beat Cena throughout their feud.

 

And when in the hell was Boogeyman ever a heel? I must have missed that one.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

.

 

And when in the hell was Boogeyman ever a heel? I must have missed that one.

Right around the time John cena was a successful cross over star, apparently.

[Promoter 0]

I agree they need to have Edge get some of his heat back. Angle's been vocal before about wanting the belt and being the HHH of smackdown and they ignored him. Angle actually wanted to do the Cena feud all the way to Mania and that's even worse. We shall see what they do with Angle anyways. I have my reservations with this UT crap where he might turn back into th dorky cartoonish Angle which helps no one.

[randomguy 0]

Cena is now Matt Hardy. He has a set of fans that will always like him, and everybody else wants him to go away. And as a heel he won't get heel heat, he'll get XPac heat. A lot of people just don't like Cena.

 

Some guys are fun to boo as heels. Angle was fun, Edge is fun. Then there are guys that get boos because people genuinely dislike them - that's where Cena is going to be.

 

It doesn't matter if they turn him heel or not. Either way he will get boos because people just plain don't like him.

[Promoter 0]

If that's the case, then they might as well keep pushing HBK and HHH as babyfaces because the future as it stands right now on the face side looks horrendous. I guess that's why Mysterio is getting the babyface to Mania push.

[snuffbox 0]

Vince is puzzled as to why the Vanilla Ice gimmick (which was so incredibly popular in 1990) cant get over again...its the perfect gimmick - at least 10 years old. Why do the fans have to be so disrespectful and boo Cena?

[NYU 0]

But if the rumors are correct, Misterio isn't getting the babyface to Mania push anyway. WWE is going to be putting two heels in title chases for their respective brands, which is entirely counterproductive to bringing in high buyrates.

 

And shit, Promoter, you're doing all kinds of drowning in this thread.

[Rob Anybody 0]

Just give Edge a new finisher, have him debut it tonight and win the title back. Or have him pull out the Edge-ucator to combat the STFU. I'm not saying that will make it all better, or make the crowds happy, or improve ratings, but I'd like to see it anyway.

[BigPoppaKev 0]

From Da Meltz (I didn't see this posted anywhere else).......

 

WWE was very close to making a celebrity deal for a debut tonight and tie-in through Mania of someone nobody would expect. Not a huge name.

 

Any idea on who this might be/what they might do?

[haVoc 0]

Shelton's long lost Papa?

[Downhome 0]

Only if his last name is Shango.

[benoit4hor 0]

Step Five. Turn Cena full heel at WrestleMania by continuing his push as Hulk Hogan 2006 by going over even Triple H whom fans may very well be fully behind. Put him with Vince Mcmahon who recently claimed it's all about turning back the clock to sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Give Cena back up because he can't trust no one in the dressing room and you got a monster heel.

 

What about Cena is sex, drugs, and rock and roll? If anybody has a gimmick like that going for them right now it's Edge.

[2GOLD 0]

From Da Meltz (I didn't see this posted anywhere else).......

 

WWE was very close to making a celebrity deal for a debut tonight and tie-in through Mania of someone nobody would expect. Not a huge name.

 

Any idea on who this might be/what they might do?

 

Sherman Hemsley.

A man can dream can't he?

[Carnival 0]

From Da Meltz (I didn't see this posted anywhere else).......

 

WWE was very close to making a celebrity deal for a debut tonight and tie-in through Mania of someone nobody would expect. Not a huge name.

 

The Rock?

[Downhome 0]

OMG itz Shaq!!!

[Detox 0]

From Da Meltz (I didn't see this posted anywhere else).......

 

WWE was very close to making a celebrity deal for a debut tonight and tie-in through Mania of someone nobody would expect. Not a huge name.

 

Any idea on who this might be/what they might do?

 

Chicago White Sox Catcher-A.J Pierzynski

[Art Sandusky 0]

I was really, really getting back into Raw the last few weeks after months of cruise control where I watched but didn't care too much. They've gotta put the belt back on Edge or at least keep him in the title picture for a while. He looked far too natural with that belt on and was performing admirably for the last month (especially considering the TLC match was his first match over a couple of minutes in a long time thanks to his injury). I said over and over to anyone who would listen at the bar last night that I loved the shit out of Edge. Please give him back the title tonight, WWE.

 

I don't dislike Cena and want to see him become a huge star and all that good stuff, but goddammit, it's hard to root for him anymore. It's like rooting for HHH, you know what's going to happen and you know you probably won't like it.

[Guest Jim Ross]

Well, in regards to the celebrity on RAW tonight.. this is whats on Jimmy Van's forum, make of it what you will:

 

"Once again I'd like to point out that the correct source here is not prowrestling.com. They lifted the news from Meltzer.

 

I wasn't going to post this on the main part of the site because I thought it was too ridiculous to be true. But I heard on Saturday that WWE was trying to get the "It's still real to me damn it" guy from the Highspots video."