TSM 2006 NBA Playoffs thread

[Ripper 0]

So you don't think it has anyone to do with race like he does? Let's ask our resident race relations man Ripper.

 

 

For someone that manages to bring up race all the time you sure do place that moinker on me alot.

 

Seriously dude...you pulled the race card in a american idol thread. Shut up for christ sake.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Well that was fun, can't get enough of seeing the lakers getting destroyed

 

Suns are going to be tough for the Clippers however my big concern is what are all those Laker fans going to do with the Clipper playoff tickets they bought?

[Guest]

Oh come on. He took his lumps on the game 4. He didn't complain about the officiating. The only time he said something was in defense of a teammate. THATS what leaders do. Its no different than Bryant coming to the defense of Vujacic.

That's not true. The 4-2 comment was, at least in my estimation, a direct slam at the officiating. A guy that covers the Suns acknowledges this.

 

Oh and the PICKING a fight with Vujacic? Come on. You know full well that Sasha is one of the most annoying, chippy son of a bitches in the league, people covering the Lakers acknowledge this. All I am going to say is that after the foul, Nash walked away, so how exactly was he in the position to push Vujacic's arm off of his?

Vujacic walked toward the ref. He barely touched him while doing that stupid shrug he does after every foul. Nash got in his face. The thing with Raja on the other hand, that's dumb. He shouldn't have said what he said. Tim Thomas is just a flatout whiny bitch, and has done nothing but complain.

 

We have Nash, the NBA's MVP last year, and he can't get a call, Thomas said, alluding to the play when Parker stole the ball.

Is he asking for preferrential treatment?

 

And the 4-2 comment. You are just grasping there. He said we are up 4-2, laughed, and said he still is in denial about them losing game 4.

Above.

 

His majority of the calls thing... When you have guys on your team bleeding and no foul being called, Kwame and Walton both committing arguably suspension warrenting fouls, then yeah, you say the majority of things went their way. Thats not even counting on the end of game 4 where even as the biggest laker supporter, you can't possibly say that they had a lot of calls go their way there.

Game 4, the Lakers got some calls. Game 6, the Suns got some calls. It happens, it's a part of the game. Every close game has one team getting a lucky call. I don't get mad when it goes against my team. Kwame's foul was very close to suspendable, based on intent, whether he hit him or not. Walton's on the other hand, we disagree.

 

For the record, I'm white.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

4-2 was funny. So was "Raja Bell? I don't know this kid." Great series on and off the court, except for a disappointing game tonight. Great blowout to watch if you dig the Suns, though.

[UZI Suicide 0]

He was trying to get his teammates involved, it wasn't about him not shooting for the sake of not shooting. After all, isn't that what everyone wanted? Charles Barkley called him selfish for only taking 3 shots in the 2nd half, after taking potshots at him all series for shooting so much.

 

I swear, this guy will never win with the fans, or the idiot commentators like Barkley.

 

 

 

Seriously, he can never win with some of these dipshits. No matter what he does, it's wrong.

[UZI Suicide 0]

But look at what he does during the games. Grabs players (teammates) heads and makes himself seem bigger than thim. Every time a teammate makes a big play, a nice high five will do. Don't try and show us your the leader by taking them by the side, and start grabbing their heads, and start whispering in their ear. And then he says what he says to Raja Bell, and continues...he is an arrogant individual.

 

 

HAHAHA.. are you fucking serious? No really, is that serious post? That has got to be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read in my entire life. I'm actually embarassed for you. You are analyzing Kobe Bryant far too much dude.

[Guest]

I will never be able to put it better than this, so here.

 

Tonight, I was shocked at the level of responsibility the basketball world has given Kobe Bryant. It is more than just basketball.

 

Rather than leading chants for their own team in victory, the Suns' fans chose to deride Kobe for losing. Rather than chanting "MVP" for Steve Nash or "Go Suns", they chose to scream "Kobe sucks." Getting more satisfication to see Kobe lose is just staggering. (Note I say 'Kobe,' not 'Lakers') That's simply astounding. How many players can elicit that kind of hate. They love to hate you, even more they love to love their own. That is not respect. That is fear. The Lakers are no longer a basketball team, a worthy foe. They are Kobe, the enemy they would pay to see him lose than watch their team win.

 

But it has moved beyond just the fans, and now into the media. All series long, analysts and commentators no longer credit Kobe's play in a loss - if the Lakers lose, the blame is on him. The fact that he played a great game is a moot point. In a loss, Kobe can do no right. Kobe can never play well if the Lakers lose; after all, the argument goes, if Kobe plays well, the Lakers should win. No other player is held to that standard. The inherent implication of this is that Kobe is the greatest player in basketball, but more than just a player. He has transcended the role of a great player; instead, Kobe embodies an entire team, a franchise, a city.

 

For Kobe Bryant, the conversation has moved beyond his play, and only that of: he's responsible for everything that happens on the basketball floor, for both the home and opposing fans.

 

There has been only one other player in NBA history that has been judged by that level, and that player was Michael Jordan. The funny thing is, most haters hate Kobe for being compared to Jordan (although he never made that comparison, and deferred to Jordan with humility), but the haters have unwittingly elevated Kobe closer than ever to Jordan.

 

And Michael Jordan was only vindicated by winning. And through that, he won the right of being called the greatest basketball player.

 

Kobe is now at the threshold of a similar opportunity.

 

Playing excellent basketball, being the best at your position, achieving progress is meaningless. Those are for mere mortals. Now Kobe is considered a one-man wrecking crew, no more, a monster, a frankenstein, the wolf man, Bill Simmons' Darth Vader, the foil to every non-Laker fan's hope.

 

And if Kobe is responsible for everything that goes wrong, the opportunity to take credit when things go right is all his.

 

You see, you have players like Lebron James, who has also played great individually, but when the Cavaliers lose, the conclusion is that he needs more help from his teammates. Nevermind he has one of the best centers in the league and solid veterans surrounding him. The point is, Lebron has not transcended individual play.

 

For Kobe, there are no excuses. If Kwame drops the ball, it is Kobe's fault. If Odom and Smush can't hit a shot, it is Kobe's fault. And Kobe haters join hands and dance. They dance and chant and burn Kobe's effigies.

 

The stage is set. The stakes are high. The mob have lit their torches, raised their truncheons, sharpened their knives. They want your blood, Kobe. They want to see you die.

 

And it will be all the more sweeter to rip their hearts out.

 

This season begins now.

I've realized how many people don't have a team. They just hate #8. And I like that.

[Ripper 0]

Honestly, the Kobe loving is getting just as nausiating. I didn't see the long diatribes after he hit game winning shots or that clutch shot in game 6. No it was fine for the world to sit back and bask in the greatnest that was kobe, "the most cluth player in basketball" i think he was called.

 

NOOOO. Last week when people were saying Kobe should be MVP because he got this sorry group of guys to playoffs, THAT was JUST fine, but if someone dares to question him, it is KObe hating.

 

The guy gets praised...alot. And while I do agree that sometimes the critisizm is dumb (seriously anyone critisizing that 81 point game shouldn't be allowed to watch the game ever again) pretending as though he is only critisized is pretty goddamn ridiculous.

 

Right now, he is catching aHELL of alot less flack than Tracy Mcgrady caught after declaring that Pistons/Magic series over a few years back. The "pull back my jersey and show my chest/I just ripped their hearts out" pose is pretty much the same thing. He gets picked on just as much as any star player does.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

According to ESPN, Suns have announced a press conference for tomorrow where Steve Nash will officially be named the MVP for the second straight year.

 

Congrats to him and with that said I hope Cassell and Livingston eat him alive next series

[Just John 0]

Suns in a squash. Called it.

 

No surprise really. The Lakers really needed to put it away in Game 5, but once they lost Game 6, there was no shot at winning the series. Los Angeles loses all around in this series, because the Clippers are not a good matchup for the Suns. They'll be sucked into playing Suns basketball, and they will lose in 6.

 

Quick Picks for Rd. 2:

 

Detroit d. Cleveland (5)

New Jersey d. Miami (6)

 

Phoenix d. LA Clippers (6)

San Antonio d. Dallas (7)

[Damaramu 0]

So you don't think it has anyone to do with race like he does? Let's ask our resident race relations man Ripper.

 

 

For someone that manages to bring up race all the time you sure do place that moinker on me alot.

 

Seriously dude...you pulled the race card in a american idol thread. Shut up for christ sake.

 

Hey if black guys can have race persecution complexes then so can white guys dammit. It's my right.

 

I wasn't trying to be a dick though. I was seriously going to see what your assessment of my coworkers comments were.

[Guest]

Honestly, the Kobe loving is getting just as nausiating. I didn't see the long diatribes after he hit game winning shots or that clutch shot in game 6. No it was fine for the world to sit back and bask in the greatnest that was kobe, "the most cluth player in basketball" i think he was called.

He's not close to the most clutch. That honor lies with former Laker Robert Horry, as the Lakers wouldn't have won anything without him. I'm not going to defend him after this, I'm just going to let it slide. I love that people hate him and the team that I've loved ever since I knew what a basketball was. That's their problem, and from now on I'm just going to let it go. He'll let his actions speak louder than my words.

 

NOOOO. Last week when people were saying Kobe should be MVP because he got this sorry group of guys to playoffs, THAT was JUST fine, but if someone dares to question him, it is KObe hating.

I don't like when people talk about Kobe at all (or when I talk with people in the real world about him), because usually it gets taken to one extreme or the other within a matter of minutes. We all have the idiots in the media to blame for it, as I'd rather have there be a happy medium.

 

Next year, they'll be better. That's why I'm not taking this loss too hard (as opposed to the Jazz sweep, which fucking tore me apart), as I'm sure they're going to make a play for Garnett. Yes, McHale is a dumbass, I just hope his dumbassedness helps the Lakers. The thing is, is I don't know if they need him.

 

The guy gets praised...alot. And while I do agree that sometimes the critisizm is dumb (seriously anyone critisizing that 81 point game shouldn't be allowed to watch the game ever again) pretending as though he is only critisized is pretty goddamn ridiculous.

I had the chance to go to that game. I'll never forget when I told my dad, "No, they're playing the Raptors. Why the fuck would I want to watch them play the Raptors, it's just going to be another game where Kobe scores 40."

 

Never again will I make that mistake.

 

Also, no conspiracy, guys.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Speaking of single players that the media likes to talk about, I was annoyed when the SportsCenter segment last night on the Cavaliers/Wizards game showed Damon Jones hitting the game winner... but instead of emphasizing how fuckin' crazy it was that the guy hadn't left the bench until there were seconds left in overtime and managed to hit a series winning shot, it was all about LeBron James. Only the coach's comments about LeBron were shown. I really like the guy and he played about as well as he could for that whole series, but come on. At least mention the guy who hit the shot being at the bottom of the postgame dogpile celebration instead of "And LeBron celebrates with the Cavaliers."

[Dangerous A 0]

Kings making it interesting in the 1/8 matchup. Spurs have been known to let teams back into a series when they're up 2-0. I still don't like our chances unless we take game 5.

 

 

LOL at Laker fans trying to say the series isn't over. Did you see the Suns leaving the court? They are done. They have no heart. They are the walking dead. Move on to the LA series.

 

LOL at whoever said the Clips/Lakers will be a war. A 4 game sweep is a war? You've gotta be kidding me? Not sure if you've checked the lineups, but there isn't one matchup on the floor the Lakers don't have a position advantage at. Clips/Lakers will be lucky to go 5 games.

 

Lakers in the WCF. Quote me on it.

 

Quoted.

 

LOL at Laker fans trying to say the series isn't over. Did you see the Suns leaving the court? They are done. They have no heart. They are the walking dead. Move on to the LA series.

 

I can't wait!

 

 

You got me on that one, chaosrage. After game 4, I thought the Lakers had the killer instinct to put the Suns away and thought the Suns didn't have anything left to give after such a heartbreaking loss. In my quote, I said the Suns were done and they had no heart. Little did I know it was the Lakers who lacked heart tonight in the most crucial game, game 7. To quote Alfdogg from NMB, aren't we all glad the first round went to 7 game series format?

 

It's not all Kobe's fault. It wasn't Phil. It wasn't even Smush's fault. It was the entire Lakers fault. It takes a team effort to tank a 3-1 series advantage. There is enough blame to spread around to guys in the purple and gold.

 

I am more than happy to eat these words, seeing as how I really don't like the Lakers. The Suns and Clippers will be big time fun.

 

I don't really have too much on the who is the real MVP, Nash or Kobe since I really don't give a fuck about MVP.

 

I apologize to Ripper and the Suns for doubting them so hard. Still, this is a good consolation prize after having to see the Kings get eliminated last night in blowout fashion.

[alfdogg 0]

Speaking of single players that the media likes to talk about, I was annoyed when the SportsCenter segment last night on the Cavaliers/Wizards game showed Damon Jones hitting the game winner... but instead of emphasizing how fuckin' crazy it was that the guy hadn't left the bench until there were seconds left in overtime and managed to hit a series winning shot, it was all about LeBron James. Only the coach's comments about LeBron were shown. I really like the guy and he played about as well as he could for that whole series, but come on. At least mention the guy who hit the shot being at the bottom of the postgame dogpile celebration instead of "And LeBron celebrates with the Cavaliers."

To be fair, we really don't need Jones's ego swelling up any more than it is. That guy's got to have the biggest ego-to-talent ratio of anyone in any of the four major sports.

[Brett Favre 0]

But look at what he does during the games. Grabs players (teammates) heads and makes himself seem bigger than thim. Every time a teammate makes a big play, a nice high five will do. Don't try and show us your the leader by taking them by the side, and start grabbing their heads, and start whispering in their ear. And then he says what he says to Raja Bell, and continues...he is an arrogant individual.

 

 

HAHAHA.. are you fucking serious? No really, is that serious post? That has got to be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read in my entire life. I'm actually embarassed for you. You are analyzing Kobe Bryant far too much dude.

 

Let it all out.

[Brett Favre 0]

Kobe got all the nice publicity for winning Game 4; theres no reason as to why, a guy whos the "leader" of the team, shouldn't get some criticism for not playing up to his full capabilities in Game 7.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Kobe got all the nice publicity for winning Game 4; theres no reason as to why, a guy whos the "leader" of the team, shouldn't get some criticism for not playing up to his full capabilities in Game 7.

 

 

Sssh! We can't criticize him because it's not fair. The world hates Kobe Bryant!

 

Kingofthe909: If you can't see how biased you are in this situation, there's no point talking to you. Steve Nash isn't a "whiny bitch", he just made a comment in jest about being up 4-2. Maybe he felt he was right. Maybe he wasn't joking around. So what? A lot of other people felt the same way. Guys talk smack in the media all the time. It was funny, but you can't hate on Kobe for all the trash talking he does? You're ridiculous good sir.

 

At least Steve Nash didn't rape a girl or anything. I was hoping he'd bust out a line on that.

[Dangerous A 0]

Next year, they'll be better. That's why I'm not taking this loss too hard (as opposed to the Jazz sweep, which fucking tore me apart), as I'm sure they're going to make a play for Garnett. Yes, McHale is a dumbass, I just hope his dumbassedness helps the Lakers. The thing is, is I don't know if they need him.

 

 

I know a team that could use Garnett- The Sacramento Kings!

 

I'd love for Geoff Petrie to work some magic and go with a Bibby and Miller for Garnett deal. I think it actually works from a money standpoint. If we can get Ron Ron and KG on the same front line, November wouldn't be able to get here quick enough.

 

Make it so.

[Guest]

Kingofthe909: If you can't see how biased you are in this situation, there's no point talking to you. Steve Nash isn't a "whiny bitch", he just made a comment in jest about being up 4-2. Maybe he felt he was right. Maybe he wasn't joking around. So what? A lot of other people felt the same way. Guys talk smack in the media all the time. It was funny, but you can't hate on Kobe for all the trash talking he does? You're ridiculous good sir.

I'm just going to forget about it. I don't care about Steve Nash and his team is going to be in cap hell quickly. No big deal.

 

 

I'd love for Geoff Petrie to work some magic and go with a Bibby and Miller for Garnett deal. I think it actually works from a money standpoint. If we can get Ron Ron and KG on the same front line, November wouldn't be able to get here quick enough.

That deal works. I think Bibby, Miller and their 1st would suffice, but KG has to approve going to Sacramento. That's a bigger obstacle than anything.

[Guest Kobe24KGold]

I'm not sure Kobe is the leader Jordan was, especially when it comes to pumping up and motivating his teammates. You never see Kobe giving intense motivational speeches in huddles or anything.

 

I don't know if I can support the Lakers in their current incarnation after THAT performance on Saturday. They showed no heart, no effort...it was pathetic and ended up being one of the worst choke jobs in history. If they REALLY tried, I wouldn't be upset, but they didn't, and as a result, I've lost ALL respect for them.

 

As for KG, there's only a few teams he'd approve of being traded to, one of which includes the Lakers. The others are probably Chicago, Clippers, and Indiana.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

I will never be able to put it better than this, so here.

 

Tonight, I was shocked at the level of responsibility the basketball world has given Kobe Bryant. It is more than just basketball.

 

Rather than leading chants for their own team in victory, the Suns' fans chose to deride Kobe for losing. Rather than chanting "MVP" for Steve Nash or "Go Suns", they chose to scream "Kobe sucks." Getting more satisfication to see Kobe lose is just staggering. (Note I say 'Kobe,' not 'Lakers') That's simply astounding. How many players can elicit that kind of hate. They love to hate you, even more they love to love their own. That is not respect. That is fear. The Lakers are no longer a basketball team, a worthy foe. They are Kobe, the enemy they would pay to see him lose than watch their team win.

 

But it has moved beyond just the fans, and now into the media. All series long, analysts and commentators no longer credit Kobe's play in a loss - if the Lakers lose, the blame is on him. The fact that he played a great game is a moot point. In a loss, Kobe can do no right. Kobe can never play well if the Lakers lose; after all, the argument goes, if Kobe plays well, the Lakers should win. No other player is held to that standard. The inherent implication of this is that Kobe is the greatest player in basketball, but more than just a player. He has transcended the role of a great player; instead, Kobe embodies an entire team, a franchise, a city.

 

For Kobe Bryant, the conversation has moved beyond his play, and only that of: he's responsible for everything that happens on the basketball floor, for both the home and opposing fans.

 

There has been only one other player in NBA history that has been judged by that level, and that player was Michael Jordan. The funny thing is, most haters hate Kobe for being compared to Jordan (although he never made that comparison, and deferred to Jordan with humility), but the haters have unwittingly elevated Kobe closer than ever to Jordan.

 

And Michael Jordan was only vindicated by winning. And through that, he won the right of being called the greatest basketball player.

 

Kobe is now at the threshold of a similar opportunity.

 

Playing excellent basketball, being the best at your position, achieving progress is meaningless. Those are for mere mortals. Now Kobe is considered a one-man wrecking crew, no more, a monster, a frankenstein, the wolf man, Bill Simmons' Darth Vader, the foil to every non-Laker fan's hope.

 

And if Kobe is responsible for everything that goes wrong, the opportunity to take credit when things go right is all his.

 

You see, you have players like Lebron James, who has also played great individually, but when the Cavaliers lose, the conclusion is that he needs more help from his teammates. Nevermind he has one of the best centers in the league and solid veterans surrounding him. The point is, Lebron has not transcended individual play.

 

For Kobe, there are no excuses. If Kwame drops the ball, it is Kobe's fault. If Odom and Smush can't hit a shot, it is Kobe's fault. And Kobe haters join hands and dance. They dance and chant and burn Kobe's effigies.

 

The stage is set. The stakes are high. The mob have lit their torches, raised their truncheons, sharpened their knives. They want your blood, Kobe. They want to see you die.

 

And it will be all the more sweeter to rip their hearts out.

 

This season begins now.

I've realized how many people don't have a team. They just hate #8. And I like that.

Thanks for this, King. I'm definitely going to save it... it's so true and it will definitely help me get pumped up for next season.

 

Kobe gets villainized by the media all the time. Honestly, I think the biggest reason is because he doesn't play the “game” the way guys like Shaq do. By game, I mean the way he deals with the press. Kobe doesn't give them one-liners and easy little soundbites, he doesn't make jokes and conduct interviews the way they always want. And for that, they will always come down hard on him when they have the opportunity. Kobe has now joined the likes of personalities like Bobby Knight... they are absolutely hated by the media unless they win and draw ratings.

 

If you look at the way the media tells the story, Kobe was simply along for the ride for the three championships and then he tore down the dynasty single-handedly and got what he deserved in a subsequent losing season. They spent this entire season criticizing him until the Lakers started winning at the tail end... and even then, Kobe didn't really get any credit until the team won Game 2. He got to be on top of the world for two nights following Game 4 (why? One reason: ratings). Game 5 came and it was downhill from there. And now that the series is over, Kobe is right back where he started.

 

Is Kobe cocky? Yes. Is he extremely confident? Definitely. Does any player work harder than Kobe does? Not a chance. Will he deserve the credit when it finally comes his way? Absolutely.

 

I used to feel like I needed to defend my favorite player, Kobe Bryant. It bothered me when he would be so blindly and roundly criticized. But now I've decided to enjoy it. All it will do is continue to motivate him. And his next championship will be so much more enjoyable.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I used to feel like I needed to defend my favorite player, Kobe Bryant. It bothered me when he would be so blindly and roundly criticized. But now I've decided to enjoy it. All it will do is continue to motivate him. And his next championship will be so much more enjoyable.

 

God knows it sure worked in Game 7.

[alfdogg 0]

Kobe Bryant, right now, is the most talented player in the NBA. I'm not going to pretend that I'm sad to see him go out, but I won't deny him that. I definitely think he'll win more titles before he hangs them up.

 

And the "head grab" that he does...a lot of players do that. Tim Duncan, for example, does this a lot.

 

With all that said, though, I'd like to know what "media" told the story that way, as I've never heard it put like that aside from conversation on this board and with some friends.

 

Also, when was it determined that Brad Miller was a "pussy". When he played here, he was anything but. If they're talking trade, I'd love to see him back. Pollard is always hurt, Harrison can't stay on the floor for 30 seconds without getting into foul trouble (and that's NOT sarcasm), and Foster, who is already undersized, always manages to get hurt and miss the first part of the year. Having Brad back would take considerable pressure off Jermaine.

[Guest]

What story, the one I quoted? I found it on a Laker board, written by one of the smarter people that discuss the team.

[Damaramu 0]

The media villianizes Kobe? All you hear from ESPN is how great he is and all they do is defend him.

[alfdogg 0]

What story, the one I quoted? I found it on a Laker board, written by one of the smarter people that discuss the team.

If you look at the way the media tells the story, Kobe was simply along for the ride for the three championships and then he tore down the dynasty single-handedly and got what he deserved in a subsequent losing season. They spent this entire season criticizing him until the Lakers started winning at the tail end... and even then, Kobe didn't really get any credit until the team won Game 2.

This was what I was referring to, but I was wondering about the piece you posted, too, so thanks.

[Hawk 34 0]

The media villianizes Kobe? All you hear from ESPN is how great he is and all they do is defend him.

 

You need to learn there is a media world beyond ESPN.

[Guest]

Whichever team is playing the Lakers on any given night, go to their local newspaper's website the next morning. It's a gold mine.

[Rendclaw 0]

I'm not going to even get on the boat in this debate anymore. Laker fans are just a little too blind in their defense of Kobe, and anyone who criticizes him is deemed a hater. My final take on this is that Kobe has not put it all together yet. He hasn;t learned to combine being a team player and playing within the offense with the score-at-will mentality. I kept waiting for him to just take the game over and try to will the Lakers back into game 7, but he did not. There comes a time in that situation if you can score at will on the man defending you, you keep busting his ass until he stops you, or they send someone to double, *then* you distribute. What I saw last night was someone trying to make a point to his coach, just like Barkley said. I saw him do it in previous years, and I hated him for doing it then, too. Whether or not its the truth, those actions smack of someone putting "being the man" over winning a playoff game.

 

Moving right along from that argument.... While I expected the Pistons to win game 1, I wasn't expecting a through and complete squashing of Cleveland. I'm at a loss for words as to how to describe that game.

 

Seeing how it took the Spurs down to the last second to beat Dallas (and as an aside, Jerry Stackhouse is a total dumbass for passing up an 18 footer to try and win it from 3 with Ginobili draped on him like a cheap suit), I just can't see any team beating the Pistons if they continue to play like that... wow.