Booker T vs Buff Bagwell

[TheInsane 0]

I was looking through the You Tube thread on this page and found the infamous Bagwell vs Booker T match from RAW. I was getting ready for a stinker but what do I get? I get a perfectly acceptable match. Its just about 5 minutes long (there seems to be an abrubt clip on you tube though, was it a comercial break?). The crowd shits on the match but what happens in the ring isnt all that bad. Especially considering the negative responses this match got everywhere. I fail to see how it was as bad as everyone sayd. What do you thinK?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP2f8F-rKAE&search=WCW%20

[Black Lushus 0]

I think it was the fact that no one cares for Buff Bagwell and it was a WCW match in the ME slot of a WWF show.

[TheInsane 0]

I think it was the fact that no one cares for Buff Bagwell and it was a WCW match in the ME slot of a WWF show.

 

I saw it for the first time today so its out of context and all but the match itself isnt half as bad as some people make it out to be. I was expecting a train wreck like that awful intergender match in 2002 (or 03) with Jackie Gayda and Trish Stratus. Cant remember who the males were but it was awful. Booker vs Buff was very much acceptable according to me - as a wrestling match that is.

[Black Lushus 0]

I think it was the fact that no one cares for Buff Bagwell and it was a WCW match in the ME slot of a WWF show.

 

I saw it for the first time today so its out of context and all but the match itself isnt half as bad as some people make it out to be. I was expecting a train wreck like that awful intergender match in 2002 (or 03) with Jackie Gayda and Trish Stratus. Cant remember who the males were but it was awful. Booker vs Buff was very much acceptable according to me - as a wrestling match that is.

 

no, you're right, it wasn't a bad match, but like I said, I don't think the WWF crowd was buying what Vince was trying to sell...not as the ME anyway...if it would have went on earlier, it probably would have been received a tad better.

[Red Baron 0]

Like lushus said.

 

Buff Bagwell.

[Sideburnious 0]

Hey!

 

...Buff has the stuff.

[dubq 0]

There's nothing overly horrible about the match, aside from Bagwell, but there's also nothing special about it. Very cookie-cutter, IMO.

[haVoc 0]

They used rest holds at a time when fast paced brawls were considered "technical wrestling." It was still very much the Austin era.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Yeah, I remember there being not that much difference in quality between the Buff/Bookr match and the other bouts of the evening.

 

 

Anyone remember Buff getting a big pop when Vince announced his name on a different show?

[Mole 0]

OMG, I forgot all about Scott Hudson.

[dubq 0]

I gotta say, though, I kinda liked Hudson on commentary.

[Guest BarnacleBill]

Back in 2001 I used to have a bunch of people over the house for Raw and I remember that night cause most of the people watching with me weren't "smart" fans or on the net,they just watched the shows and wcw was so uncool they never talked about it or watched it,so to them they had this low level company that went out of business main eventing wwf's #1 show,they went from Main events featuring Austin,Rock,Angle and HHH to Booker T and Buff Bagwell..It wasn't Pleasant and most of those people don't watch wrestling anymore.

[cabbageboy 0]

I personally think the overall level of ring work has declined a lot since 2001, which is why people look back on this match and say "Maybe it wasn't that bad." It doesn't seem as out of place now, with guys like Orton doing restholds and headlocks for 4/5 of a match.

 

To say Booker/Bagwell isn't as bad as I thought would be to say that maybe it wasn't a -** type match, but just a DUD.

[Guest Thrashist]

Imagine watching CSI one day and right when they're building to the climax of the show, they let Law and Order SVU take over with what ever storylines they had going on. Most WWE fans probably only had a passing familarity with both guys, some not at all, and pretty much all just had no emotional investment in the context of the match. The match was about average, it was just the circumstances that made it a stinker. Anything short of a total spotfest would have been a disaster in that scenario, and it just so happens that everybody hates Buff Bagwell too.

[alfdogg 0]

Wow, 14 replies without a "SHUDNT THIS BE IN GENRAL WRESLING~" post. I'm impressed.

 

I've never seen the match, but I seem to recall hearing about Bradshaw fucking Buff's neck up with a powerbomb afterward.

[Vyce 0]

It wasn't a bad match, but they needed a really exciting, special match to win over the WWF crowd, and they didn't really deliver. So it got shat on.

[TheInsane 0]

I personally think the overall level of ring work has declined a lot since 2001, which is why people look back on this match and say "Maybe it wasn't that bad." It doesn't seem as out of place now, with guys like Orton doing restholds and headlocks for 4/5 of a match.

 

To say Booker/Bagwell isn't as bad as I thought would be to say that maybe it wasn't a -** type match, but just a DUD.

 

You really think so? A DUD to me is pretty worthless. What Booker and Buff did was a standard matchup with nothing badly blown. An ok match in my book.

 

Personally I dont think the in ring work level has declined. It has developed from the more risky style but it hasnt declined. I think its good that they slow down a bit. High tempo doesnt automatically make a match good (even though some x-division fans might argue that point). I mean look at Finlay, nothing fast but he really interesting and is producing great matches all over the place.

 

Wow, 14 replies without a "SHUDNT THIS BE IN GENRAL WRESLING~" post. I'm impressed.

 

Im sorry if this is posted in the wrong section but the match did take place on WWF television and this is the forum for discussion on that company.

[CBright7831 0]

"Buff Bagwell goes with the WWF Championship on the line."

 

Nick work, Hudson.

 

EDIT - And I forgot how horrible Buff's theme was. Thanks alot, YouTube.

[Guest El Satanico]

I was watching the match as a WCW fan, and still found it bad.

 

The only time Buff was tolerable was during his tag team with Scott Norton...Vicious and Delicious .

[GreatWhiteNope 0]

I personally think the overall level of ring work has declined a lot since 2001, which is why people look back on this match and say "Maybe it wasn't that bad." It doesn't seem as out of place now, with guys like Orton doing restholds and headlocks for 4/5 of a match.

 

To say Booker/Bagwell isn't as bad as I thought would be to say that maybe it wasn't a -** type match, but just a DUD.

 

You really think so? A DUD to me is pretty worthless. What Booker and Buff did was a standard matchup with nothing badly blown. An ok match in my book.

 

You're watching on YouTube, and the quality doesn't reflect that the crowd completely shit on the match.

 

It also doesn't include Arn Anderson being accompanied to the ring by hookers to do commentary.

 

Vince basically devoted 20 minutes of his program to a dead company, and nobody wanted to see that.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Part of the problem was Booker T and Buff weren't really up to the level of main eventers, at least by WWF standards at the time. They simply weren't on par with guys like Rock, Austin, Triple H, etc. How would you feel if you bought a ticket to a wrestling show for one company, and the main event was comprised of two guys from a seemingly inferior and defunct wrestling promotion?

 

Let's face it, Booker T was only on top of WCW very briefly before Vince bought it, and Buff Bagwell never broke past the midcard in WCW. If it had been a couple guys like, say, Goldberg and Hogan, or Nash and Flair, or Sting and Hall, it may have worked. Booker and Buff were never in that upper echelon in WCW.

 

Also, I'm sure 90% of the WWF fans watching RAW that night had no idea who Scott Hudson was, and a lot probably didn't know much about Arn Anderson either (who hadn't even been a commentator before that night).

[Special K 0]

"And thank you to the BEAUTIFUL, EFFERVESCENT Linda McMahon for this opportunity!"

 

Like others have said, there used to be little wasted time in the short matches. Therefore a long chinlock sequence in the middle of the match was shat on, and rightfully so.

 

WCW seemed to always have a 'face fights out of a resthold' spot in their heavyweight matches, but their matches were usually longer.

 

What I don't understand is why wrestlers can't learn rest holds other than a chinlock. Use a Fujiwara armbar, or a half-crab, or a camel clutch, or an indian deathlock or SOMETHING.

[TheInsane 0]

I personally think the overall level of ring work has declined a lot since 2001, which is why people look back on this match and say "Maybe it wasn't that bad." It doesn't seem as out of place now, with guys like Orton doing restholds and headlocks for 4/5 of a match.

 

To say Booker/Bagwell isn't as bad as I thought would be to say that maybe it wasn't a -** type match, but just a DUD.

 

You really think so? A DUD to me is pretty worthless. What Booker and Buff did was a standard matchup with nothing badly blown. An ok match in my book.

 

You're watching on YouTube, and the quality doesn't reflect that the crowd completely shit on the match.

 

Well, I heard how the crowd shit on the match but in my opinion it wasnt the wrestlers or the matchs fault at all. Maybe it was the choice Vince made to put these two guys on par with the WWF main eventers. Im just saying that I dont think the match itself is as bad as I have heard people call it. What they do in the ring is quite acceptable and it didnt bore me at all. That it was put in the wrong spot on the card and that WWF fans rejected it because of it as well as because these were wrestlers from a non-WWF promotion isnt that strange.

[Enigma 0]

Arn Anderson also doesn't seem as bad on commentary as he was made out to be.

[cabbageboy 0]

This match and thread reminds me of the scene in Walk the Line where Johnny Cash goes to Sun Records to audition for Sam Phillips. His band launches into a relatively competent but ho hum song and Phillips yells cut. Then asks Cash "If you were dying and had ONE song to sing, what would it be?"

 

If Vince had that one match to put on to show WCW to the WWF fans, would it really be Booker vs. Bagwell?

 

Ok so maybe the match isn't a flat out DUD, but it's certainly nowhere beyond a ** match.

[Black Lushus 0]

did he have DDP on the payroll yet? Booker T/DDP would have went over a little bit better...but still, they'd have to keep it out of ME slot...THAT was the biggest problem...

[TheInsane 0]

If Vince had that one match to put on to show WCW to the WWF fans, would it really be Booker vs. Bagwell?

 

Ok so maybe the match isn't a flat out DUD, but it's certainly nowhere beyond a ** match.

 

A. No that wouldnt be my choice to put on as a match representing WCW. He shouldnt have been cheap in the firt place and should have signed the really big names WCW had at the time. If not for anything more than at least for a year.

 

A 5 minute match is almost never gonna atchieve a higher rating than ** or ** 1/2 from me anyway. This match was a standard, short match. Nothing really botched and I saw nothing reallyw rong in ring wise. That makes it far from a DUD in my eyes. However as you said it wasnt good either (good as in ***) but it was in between those two for me. Maybe a ** even.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

The match is actually decent. Its really overrated as an awful match IMO.

[Vampiro69 0]

I was watching the match as a WCW fan, and still found it bad.

 

The only time Buff was tolerable was during his tag team with Scott Norton...Vicious and Delicious .

 

Did you forget about the time when Bagwell and 2 Cold Scorpio were a tag team?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The match was not bad in itself, but for what the first WCW match on WWE television should have been it was beyond terrible. The first WCW match on WWE television needed to be something different and exciting, and a match that showcased either great wrestling or thrilling high-flying moves. Instead, we got Buff Bagwell holding a chinlock for two minutes of a six-minute match. It would have made more sense to put Lance Storm against Booker T, because he was the first WCW guy to show up on WWE, and it would have made for a much better match.