Dobbs 3K Posted June 15, 2006 Report Posted June 15, 2006 OK, sorry if this has been discussed already, or if this should be in the WWE folder...but I have to ask: I have never seen Ring of Honor and no longer buy or trade tapes. However, people constantly talk about this CM Punk. People seem to have a strong reaction about him one way or another: Either they love him and portray him as the second coming of Ric Flair or Chris Benoit, or they see him as a smart markish indy wrestler who doesn't work a realistic style. I guess, what's all the hype about, and is he really that good?
Mystery Eskimo Posted June 15, 2006 Report Posted June 15, 2006 I don't think even the most ardent Punk fan would honestly put him even close to Flair or Benoit. He's a solid wrestler capable of good to great matches, with above average mic skills.
World's Worst Man Posted June 15, 2006 Report Posted June 15, 2006 Coming from a critical point of view, I'd tend to put him somewhere in the middle. Both sides of the argument have good points. Punk is a smart wrestler. He knows story-telling and he knows selling. The problem is, in many instances he forces the story in his matches, which makes things come off as unnatural and "fake". His best matches were with Samoa Joe, who was able to supply quite a bit of the good work himself, so the tendency for Punk's wrestling to come off as forced wasn't there. The matches also had a built-in story, which further helped the authenticity of the matches. Punk also tends to be a bit sloppy with his execution, something that I take into account when looking at a wrestler. But I don't imagine it's a big complaint among some of the anti-Punk crowd, as many of them seem to disregard execution when judging a wrestler's ability. Outside of the Joe matches, he's hit or miss. When he's on, he's usually capable of having good-very good matches (but not much more) with guys who are around his own ability, or just beneath him. When he's off, he tends to have those "fake, forced" matches that people talk about. I think what he would be better in an enviroment with a larger emphasis on character and angles, as then his matches would have more of a built-in story, which would cancel the need to forcibly inject story into a match. I suspect the anti-Punk hyperbole is due to how much he's overrated in some circles, combined with a general dislike/jealousy of indy wrestling in general. And the pro-Punk view is simply due to people not caring or "getting" that forced, unnatural story-telling is a bad thing.
JustJoe2k5 Posted June 15, 2006 Report Posted June 15, 2006 I think he is a little overrated by some people around the independent scene, but he is a great talent. Some people think he could be the face of the new ECW, but I don't see it. He is a talented wrestler, he is great on the mic, but I don't know if he is the type of talent that could carry a major promotion.
Shooting Star Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 I don't get the whole forced story telling thing. Could anyone give me an example of what exactly it is?
HollywoodSpikeJenkins Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 When he "forces" himself to tell a story in a forgettable 8-minute match with an opponent he might not have any backround storyline with.
Masked Man of Mystery Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 Ah, so Punk is finally getting some of the resentment AJ Styles gets now
World's Worst Man Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 I don't get the whole forced story telling thing. Could anyone give me an example of what exactly it is? Unconvincing story elements that don't seem to be really fit into the match. Lazily attacking a body part that doesn't go anywhere or seem to serve any purpose is a good example.
EricMM Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 So you're saying he's trying too hard in some of his matches, overcompensating to try to make everything MOTY? Are the lower card matches supposed to be "lesser" matches inherently?
JustJoe2k5 Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 So you're saying he's trying too hard in some of his matches, overcompensating to try to make everything MOTY? Are the lower card matches supposed to be "lesser" matches inherently? Yeah, if you want to succeed at the next level and not piss off every main-eventer in the company.
HollywoodSpikeJenkins Posted June 16, 2006 Report Posted June 16, 2006 So you're saying he's trying too hard in some of his matches, overcompensating to try to make everything MOTY? Are the lower card matches supposed to be "lesser" matches inherently? Yeah, if you want to succeed at the next level and not piss off every main-eventer in the company. Thing was though, Punk was the ROH Goldenboy, so he got away with it.
World's Worst Man Posted June 17, 2006 Report Posted June 17, 2006 So you're saying he's trying too hard in some of his matches, overcompensating to try to make everything MOTY? Are the lower card matches supposed to be "lesser" matches inherently? Pretty much. Lower card matches shouldn't have to be "lesser", but they should to be somewhat different than the other matches on the card. I guess all that really means is not doing any "important" spots that certain other matches might be doing. Anything else should be acceptable in the time given. If two guys steal the show (according to the majority of the viewers) in the first match, maybe their talent doesn't belong that early in the card.
Hawk 34 Posted June 17, 2006 Report Posted June 17, 2006 So you're saying he's trying too hard in some of his matches, overcompensating to try to make everything MOTY? Are the lower card matches supposed to be "lesser" matches inherently? Pretty much. Lower card matches shouldn't have to be "lesser", but they should to be somewhat different than the other matches on the card. I guess all that really means is not doing any "important" spots that certain other matches might be doing. Anything else should be acceptable in the time given. If two guys steal the show (according to the majority of the viewers) in the first match, maybe their talent doesn't belong that early in the card. What's funny about this is that Punk bemoaned this concept (of overcompensating and trying to steal the spotlight and such) and said the whole show needs to build to the main event and that sometimes you have pull yourself back when you need to for the better good of the show. Yet he actually works against that idea. He talks about if you are the popcorn match, don't go into it thinking you are a main event act. Punk isn't over-rated nor is he under-rated. Punk has proven that he can flat out work and Joe put all the credit for the success on the triology on Punk saying Punk did everything in and out of the ring that made it work. He is brilliant at playing to the crowd and I honestly believe he is one of the best at it, not to mention his superb promo and commentary skills. He has a huge upside for him but his reputation as a trouble making, egomaniac won't help him out.
Guest DRH 502 Posted June 22, 2006 Report Posted June 22, 2006 I'm sorry but why do you want a pic of HOUSE as your damn sig? Thats annoying to have to stare at that idiot.
Guest hasbeen Posted June 22, 2006 Report Posted June 22, 2006 I'm sorry but why do you want a pic of HOUSE as your damn sig? Thats annoying to have to stare at that idiot. Why does anyone have to have a sig at all for that matter, some of them really slow down the pages from opening.
USC Wuz Robbed! Posted June 22, 2006 Report Posted June 22, 2006 You can turn them off, hasbeen. It's in your options.
Sly Posted June 22, 2006 Report Posted June 22, 2006 And it really does nothing to my cable connection...
Guest hasbeen Posted June 22, 2006 Report Posted June 22, 2006 You can turn them off, hasbeen. It's in your options. Thanks.
Guest Hemme Posted June 24, 2006 Report Posted June 24, 2006 For me Punk is overrated on t'internet, he's solid enough but I cant believe people are flipping out because he's not on TV or in a top line feud or whatever, the fact is they guy is a decent wrestler, but it seems like he's an average entertainer, which will hold him back in the WWE, without a decent gimmick that is.
Special K Posted June 24, 2006 Report Posted June 24, 2006 CM Punk might be a little overrated in his matchwork. He's still really great. His selling is top-notch I think If he got a finisher outside of the Pepsi Plunge (which looks like it could be really dangerous.) He'd be oneof the best. Comparing him to Flair or Benoit is silly. He's more in the *Shawn Micahels incredible seller with incredible charisma* mold. I think he's top fice in the talkers though. I think his character is incredible. I think he could be the new star of ECW easily. Easily. He's sort of like Steve Corino. Great talker, great seller, but he's so much better than Corino (who I really like!) I think they should push him to the top of ECW.
Eclipse Posted June 24, 2006 Report Posted June 24, 2006 All I heard about CM Punk is that he is a great on the mic. He can definitely suck the fans into the angle.
Alro Posted June 25, 2006 Report Posted June 25, 2006 He's still really great. His selling is top-notch I think If he got a finisher outside of the Pepsi Plunge (which looks like it could be really dangerous.) He'd be oneof the best. He uses the Anaconda Vice now, which I like much more than the Pespi Plunge. The Plunge seemed like a very unbelievable move to me. It required too much set-up where the Anaconda Vice can basically be applied from anywhere.
Hawk 34 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Posted June 25, 2006 He's still really great. His selling is top-notch I think If he got a finisher outside of the Pepsi Plunge (which looks like it could be really dangerous.) He'd be oneof the best. He uses the Anaconda Vice now, which I like much more than the Pespi Plunge. The Plunge seemed like a very unbelievable move to me. It required too much set-up where the Anaconda Vice can basically be applied from anywhere. The Pepsi Plunge was great for a high impact move to finish off a major feud (such as the Daniels one) but the execution of it was usually flawed as it's not an easy move to take or deliver. Oddly enough, Homicide did a fantastic pepsi plunge and almost looked better then Punk's version.
cynicalprofit Posted June 25, 2006 Report Posted June 25, 2006 Punk has talent, you can't deny it. He was scouted and courted by everyone and in the end, WWE won him. Now it's all a matter to see if he gets the chance to show what he can do and only time will tell if he can become the superstar many think he can be.
Fro Posted June 25, 2006 Report Posted June 25, 2006 He's got charisma, mic skills, and a good grasp of how to put together a match with great psychology. Moveset is good too. Technically he's not nearly as crisp as he should be.
King Cucaracha Posted June 26, 2006 Report Posted June 26, 2006 Punk is a very good wrestler, but his style simply doesn't blow people away on first viewing like an AJ Styles or a Joe or a Jack Evans does. He used to be more of a cruiserweight wrestler in his IWA days, but even then he wasn't a blow-you-away worker. It's only really when you see him a couple of times and get to know what he does that you really see his potential. On the mic, he's one of those guys with the vaunted 'money promo' inside him waiting to come out. I never got the 'he can't work WWE style' arguement, because his style always struck me as one which would fit in quite comfortably.
Jericholic82 Posted June 26, 2006 Report Posted June 26, 2006 I'm sorry but why do you want a pic of HOUSE as your damn sig? Thats annoying to have to stare at that idiot. Cuz House is the best character on TV today DUH
Guest DRH 502 Posted June 26, 2006 Report Posted June 26, 2006 I agree he is a very entertaining character yes, but he is an ugly feller.
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