PlayStation 3

[EricMM 0]

Ironically, as Tycho pointed out recently (at p-a) Sony basically has overthrown or at the very least become even with Nintendo as the best FIRST PARTY developer out there. Ratchet and Clank, Ico, Shadows of the Colossus, it goes on. God of War...

 

See how well that worked for Nintendo tho...

[The Man in Blak 0]

To be fair, though, the Ratchet & Clank series were developed by Insomniac Games, a second-party developer for the Sony consoles.

 

As much as I like Ico and Shadows of the Colossus, I think Sony still has a long way to go before it can even touch the IP value of Nintendo's flagship titles.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Give it about a year and Sony will probably be back on top.

 

I didn't see the article posted here, but this is a significant development for Sony:

 

http://www.dailytech.com/IBM+Shrinks+Cell+...article6454.htm

 

Give it a few more months, and those 65nm processes will start using a 45nm process. The cell engine will become cheaper and cheaper for Sony to produce, and as BluRay becomes cheaper to produce as well, they'll be able to drop the price of the system some and make a larger profit off of it. I expect XB360 to stay up with the shrinking processor game, but at the same time, eventually the power of the cell processor is going to win the day for this gen.

[Matt Young 0]

Ironically, as Tycho pointed out recently (at p-a) Sony basically has overthrown or at the very least become even with Nintendo as the best FIRST PARTY developer out there. Ratchet and Clank, Ico, Shadows of the Colossus, it goes on. God of War...

 

See how well that worked for Nintendo tho...

 

It's all opinion, of course, but I strongly disagree. I feel that Nintendo blows away Sony and Microsoft as far as first party titles go.

 

I really hope FFXIII comes to the 360, seeing as how I won't be buying a PS3 until the price drops a couple hundred dollars, and I <3 achievements.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Gran Turismo is the only Sony 1st party game I really need to have. Unfortunately it's pretty high on the list, so I'll have to get a PS3 some day. I'm all for the exclusives coming to the 360 though. I just wonder what will happen to all those smaller, PS2 exclusive RPGs that made the system so awesome.

[AndrewTS 0]

Give it about a year and Sony will probably be back on top.

 

I didn't see the article posted here, but this is a significant development for Sony:

 

http://www.dailytech.com/IBM+Shrinks+Cell+...article6454.htm

 

Give it a few more months, and those 65nm processes will start using a 45nm process. The cell engine will become cheaper and cheaper for Sony to produce, and as BluRay becomes cheaper to produce as well, they'll be able to drop the price of the system some and make a larger profit off of it. I expect XB360 to stay up with the shrinking processor game, but at the same time, eventually the power of the cell processor is going to win the day for this gen.

 

Assuming that, 360 will have had a year and a half head-start to get a solid install base (hell, it's starting to pick up in Japan)?

Even then you have to assume that 360 and Wii will stay the same price they are now. As a gaming machine, 360 is a much better value than PS3 is *right now* (for current gen, anyway). That has to change before Sony is going to be "on top" again.

 

Is there a way for a company to take its pricy console and, oh, slash about 100 dollars or more off its pricing within its first year and not be looked as at as some sort of desperation move? And if it a *small* cut is made...what is making customers not want to wait for further cuts?

 

Sony is not making money on the PS3 now. Even if this pans out well, they're probably still going to lose money. All those slots and the wi fi in the premium model, the hard drives, the emotion engine (well, for those who have it...), plus Cell and Blu Ray.

 

I'd say you're being a little premature on this.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Just based on how Intel has taken control of the processor market, you can sort of see where the situation is going if Sony is smart. Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, is slow to adapt to the times; I'm not saying you should upgrade a console, necessarily, because that would be stupid for game development and whatnot. But, when you look at how Intel has been able to slash prices so absurdly to try to force AMD out of the market, it's been effective and they're still making a decent profit off of it. The key to their dominance has been switching over to a 65nm process, which essentially made it cheaper to make chips that are just as powerful as the 90nm ones that AMD was putting out. If Sony continues that trend and IBM makes a 45nm cell processor to put in the next gen of PS3s (Intel has the 45nm's in production right now, ready to drop in Q1 2008, so I can't imagine IBM is too far behind -- about a year, perhaps, which was the basis of my prediction), they're going to be able to drop the price below that magic $500 mark. As the rest of the components -- specifically Blu-Ray -- age and cheapen as well, you'll probably see the XB360 and PS3 at financial parity, and ultimately, the stronger system is going to win.

 

You might be right in that the XB360 will have a larger established customer base by then, but I'm pretty confident that PS3 will have a longer shelf life than XB360, just based on the technology. For what it's worth, the XB360 is based on computer technology that's been obsolete for a while now. The cell processor can still hold its own against the latest gen, albeit it'll probably fail against the higher end chips, like all consoles.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Another FWIW:

 

Blu-Ray beating HD-DVD will play a huge role in the race in the next year or so, if the trend continues. Not saying it will or not, but there's a fairly significant market of people who are buying the PS3 because it's the cheapest Blu-Ray player on the market. And, oh yeah, it can play games 'n' shit.

[AndrewTS 0]

age and cheapen as well, you'll probably see the XB360 and PS3 at financial parity, and ultimately, the stronger system is going to win.

 

Not really a model that holds too true in the console market. Xbox never really reached that point despite being the stronger system. It suffered a slow start because of the PS2's big head start in user base and software...and it was competitive in price to the Playstation 2.

 

By the way, the Blu Ray player argument is going become a weaker, instead of a stronger, determinant over time. DVD players dropped big time in price rather quickly, and stand-alones soon became a better value for non-gamers. It will be interesting to see how much the players themselves and the PS3 deviate in price by the end of this year.

 

I'm unaware of this "magic $500 mark" you speak of, though. I know that *somewhere* below that is where Sony wants to be eventually, but in console gaming the mass-market adoption of a console tend to not really begin until $200 or less.

 

Where is all the software that is going to make people buy the system? And specifically, where is the software *exclusive to the PS3* that is going to make customers pay $200 more for the PS3 when they could get the same games (probably with more robust online play) on 360?

[Ripper 0]

Just based on how Intel has taken control of the processor market, you can sort of see where the situation is going if Sony is smart. Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, is slow to adapt to the times; I'm not saying you should upgrade a console, necessarily, because that would be stupid for game development and whatnot. But, when you look at how Intel has been able to slash prices so absurdly to try to force AMD out of the market, it's been effective and they're still making a decent profit off of it. The key to their dominance has been switching over to a 65nm process, which essentially made it cheaper to make chips that are just as powerful as the 90nm ones that AMD was putting out. If Sony continues that trend and IBM makes a 45nm cell processor to put in the next gen of PS3s (Intel has the 45nm's in production right now, ready to drop in Q1 2008, so I can't imagine IBM is too far behind -- about a year, perhaps, which was the basis of my prediction), they're going to be able to drop the price below that magic $500 mark. As the rest of the components -- specifically Blu-Ray -- age and cheapen as well, you'll probably see the XB360 and PS3 at financial parity, and ultimately, the stronger system is going to win.

 

You might be right in that the XB360 will have a larger established customer base by then, but I'm pretty confident that PS3 will have a longer shelf life than XB360, just based on the technology. For what it's worth, the XB360 is based on computer technology that's been obsolete for a while now. The cell processor can still hold its own against the latest gen, albeit it'll probably fail against the higher end chips, like all consoles.

 

 

The difference is that Intel just did it VERY quickly. They said "fuck it" and came out with a processor with an insanely low price point to get alot of sells and get computer enthusist all over it. In other words, Sony would have to drop the price dramastically within the next few months to follow this plan.

 

And this isn't about larger established customer base. The Xbox 360 still outsold the PS3 last month. That is not cool when you have the new hardware and something that has been on the market for more than a year is still outselling you.

 

Personally, I think they need to produce a system that won't kill their pockets and drop it to 360 price range and be real competition. Wii outsold both the Xbox360 and the PS3 combined last month, but they can't see themselves as competing with the WII because their price point and target demographic is so much differnent. They need to try and compete with the 360 and they aren't that far off with sell to sell now, but its still bad considering.

 

The true business model they should have followed was their last one. They had hardware wise the weakest of the 3 systems. THey didn't cram it with 10,000 things to drive up the price, and they still roasted the competition. My system is stronger than your system didn't work for Microsoft and it didn't work for Nintendo, so why in the flipping fuck would you try and follow THAT with your next system.

[AndrewTS 0]

The Xbox 360 still outsold the PS3 last month. That is not cool when you have the new hardware and something that has been on the market for more than a year is still outselling you.

 

An established system tends to do better than a new one, especially when it has a much lower price and a stronger library.

 

Oh, but you forgot to mention that...

 

Wii is outselling PS3 (about double...)

DS is outselling PS3

PSP is outselling PS3

PS2 is outselling PS3

and Game Boy Advance is outselling PS3...

 

My system is stronger than your system didn't work for Microsoft and it didn't work for Nintendo, so why in the flipping fuck would you try and follow THAT with your next system.

 

They have claimed the idea was to have a console with the longest life span--a "future proof" console, that is. It's not the craziest idea, as Dreamcast was prematurely doomed partly because of its choice in formats.

[Mike wanna be 0]

...GBA is outselling PS3?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

-- The problem there is that there's no such thing as a future-proof system. It took less than a year for the 360 to become pretty much old tech, at least when compared to the PS3 and PC platforms.

 

-- $500 is derived from the fact that nobody's going to buy a system that costs more than it. Really, it's obviously lower, as in approximately what the 360 currently costs. That was simply a rhetorical device.

 

-- Also, Ripper, you completely misinterpreted the Intel model. They essentially benefited from the fact that they could run simultaneous development teams that ran with one radical departure from the norm (the failed Pentium 4/Pentium D model that AMD feasted upon) and one incremental vehicle that eventually became so cost-efficient and effective that they could afford to put out chips like the e6600 that outperform $1000 AMD chips. AMD and Intel previously weren't selling such expensive chips for their health, that was literally what it was costing them to make the damn things. Intel's price war, indeed, has to do with cutting prices so dramatically that they bump AMD out of the market, but they're still able to pull a small profit out of it because the cost of producing them dropped exponentially with the smaller process.

 

-- Sony may make this a moot point anyway if 65nm is their final step; I'm speculating entirely on the idea that if they're willing to look into smaller process size once, they might do it again in a year.

 

-- The XB was always the stronger system, but they could never really reach parity; it was still $300 and $250 when PS2 was $200 and $150. I doubt XB360 is going to drop similarly, unless they don't ever plan on fully integrating HD-DVD support, in which case PS3 will win the HD gaming crown and create their own niche market.

[AndrewTS 0]

...GBA is outselling PS3?

 

It did in February.

 

http://kotaku.com/gaming/npd/february-npd-madness-244656.php

 

TOTAL HARDWARE SALES

 

DS - 485,000

Wii - 335,000

PS2 - 295,000

360 - 228,000

PSP - 176,000

GBA - 136,000

PS3 - 127,000

NGC - 24,000

[AndrewTS 0]

-- The XB was always the stronger system, but they could never really reach parity; it was still $300 and $250 when PS2 was $200 and $150.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox

 

North America

 

* US$299 (November 15, 2001, Launch Price) (CAD$449)

* US$199 (May 15, 2002) (CAD$299)

* US$179 (May 14, 2003) (CAD$249)

* US$149 (March 29, 2004) (CAD$199)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_2

 

* US$299.99 (October 26, 2000, release date) (CAD$449.99)

* US$199.99 (May 14, 2002) (CAD$299.99)

* US$179.99 (May 13, 2003, "temporary" pricing) (CAD$249.99)

* US$179.99 (August 18, 2003, official pricing)[2]

* US$149.99 (May 11, 2004) (CAD$179.99)

* US$129.99 (April 20, 2006) (CAD$139.99)

 

I will freely admit these are unsourced, and I welcome you to correct me or it if you can find something other than anecdotal evidence, but until near the very end when MS simply couldn't cut anymore, they seemed to me to be pretty much on an even keel in price.

 

I'll plead ignorance if I'm wrong, though; the Xbox1 was never worth full MSRP, and the one I owned was used.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

You're probably right, I'm not going to argue with it because mine was based entirely on assumption. All I know is that I remember thinking I was gonna go and grab an Xbox because I wanted to mod it and I went home thinking it was way too expensive for my tastes. I have no reason to believe your pricing info is wrong though.

 

I don't ever remember seeing it at $150, but that's entirely anecdotal.

 

Again, though, my scenario for Sony seizing the market is based entirely on speculation; if they don't drop the process size further and they don't drop their prices down, they're obviously going to lose. It was a huge mistake to release the PS3 when they couldn't even turn a profit on it, and that alone makes them deserve to lose this generation's console war. But, this isn't a hopeless scenario for Sony, either, because there's a very real possibility that a year from now, they could be dominating the market if they play their cards right.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Sony's only hope was their killer exclusives, and now that those appear to be dwindling, it seems like they have no hope. Even if they did have their exclusives, it would have been a long, uphill battle to take the top spot. No one knows what the future holds, but with how badly Sony has been handling things, I'm extremely doubtful about their ability to turn things around. It looks like the Wii with their severely underpowered hardware and significantly lower price-point could be the top selling console this generation, assuming they pump out a semi-respectable software lineup (and this is by no means a certainty).

[Ripper 0]

-- The XB was always the stronger system, but they could never really reach parity; it was still $300 and $250 when PS2 was $200 and $150.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox

 

North America

 

* US$299 (November 15, 2001, Launch Price) (CAD$449)

* US$199 (May 15, 2002) (CAD$299)

* US$179 (May 14, 2003) (CAD$249)

* US$149 (March 29, 2004) (CAD$199)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_2

 

* US$299.99 (October 26, 2000, release date) (CAD$449.99)

* US$199.99 (May 14, 2002) (CAD$299.99)

* US$179.99 (May 13, 2003, "temporary" pricing) (CAD$249.99)

* US$179.99 (August 18, 2003, official pricing)[2]

* US$149.99 (May 11, 2004) (CAD$179.99)

* US$129.99 (April 20, 2006) (CAD$139.99)

 

I will freely admit these are unsourced, and I welcome you to correct me or it if you can find something other than anecdotal evidence, but until near the very end when MS simply couldn't cut anymore, they seemed to me to be pretty much on an even keel in price.

 

I'll plead ignorance if I'm wrong, though; the Xbox1 was never worth full MSRP, and the one I owned was used.

 

Once again I will state, a Modded Xbox1 is the greatest console in the history of everything. Snes, Nes, Arcade games, movies, internet, music all stored on a 120 gig hardrive on the system and load times being nearly non existant because they are already on there.

 

Now unmodded...fuck that noise.

[Ripper 0]

Sony's only hope was their killer exclusives, and now that those appear to be dwindling, it seems like they have no hope. Even if they did have their exclusives, it would have been a long, uphill battle to take the top spot. No one knows what the future holds, but with how badly Sony has been handling things, I'm extremely doubtful about their ability to turn things around. It looks like the Wii with their severely underpowered hardware and significantly lower price-point could be the top selling console this generation, assuming they pump out a semi-respectable software lineup (and this is by no means a certainty).

 

 

Yeah, I am going to have to agree with this. I personlly don't see them catching and surpassing the sales of the 360 with their ever dwindling lineup of exclusives. And apparently people love Halo, so Xbox has at least Halo 3 going for it as an exclusive.

[MrRant 0]

-- The problem there is that there's no such thing as a future-proof system. It took less than a year for the 360 to become pretty much old tech, at least when compared to the PS3 and PC platforms.

 

-- $500 is derived from the fact that nobody's going to buy a system that costs more than it. Really, it's obviously lower, as in approximately what the 360 currently costs. That was simply a rhetorical device.

 

-- Also, Ripper, you completely misinterpreted the Intel model. They essentially benefited from the fact that they could run simultaneous development teams that ran with one radical departure from the norm (the failed Pentium 4/Pentium D model that AMD feasted upon) and one incremental vehicle that eventually became so cost-efficient and effective that they could afford to put out chips like the e6600 that outperform $1000 AMD chips. AMD and Intel previously weren't selling such expensive chips for their health, that was literally what it was costing them to make the damn things. Intel's price war, indeed, has to do with cutting prices so dramatically that they bump AMD out of the market, but they're still able to pull a small profit out of it because the cost of producing them dropped exponentially with the smaller process.

 

-- Sony may make this a moot point anyway if 65nm is their final step; I'm speculating entirely on the idea that if they're willing to look into smaller process size once, they might do it again in a year.

 

-- The XB was always the stronger system, but they could never really reach parity; it was still $300 and $250 when PS2 was $200 and $150. I doubt XB360 is going to drop similarly, unless they don't ever plan on fully integrating HD-DVD support, in which case PS3 will win the HD gaming crown and create their own niche market.

 

MS has never said they would not come out with a Blu Ray drive much like their HD DVD drive externally. MS was smart to not integrate and then get burned by a format war. I do agree that Blu-Ray is winning and the PS3 is an attractive Blu-Ray player considering that Sony's own standalone is greater than $599 IIRC, however, as Andrew stated the minute that one format wins (or appears to have one by being the dominant format), then prices will drop. I expect to see in the next year after it shakes out to see players around the $249-299 range for a low to mid range player.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Sony's only hope was their killer exclusives, and now that those appear to be dwindling, it seems like they have no hope. Even if they did have their exclusives, it would have been a long, uphill battle to take the top spot. No one knows what the future holds, but with how badly Sony has been handling things, I'm extremely doubtful about their ability to turn things around. It looks like the Wii with their severely underpowered hardware and significantly lower price-point could be the top selling console this generation, assuming they pump out a semi-respectable software lineup (and this is by no means a certainty).

 

 

Yeah, I am going to have to agree with this. I personlly don't see them catching and surpassing the sales of the 360 with their ever dwindling lineup of exclusives. And apparently people love Halo, so Xbox has at least Halo 3 going for it as an exclusive.

As far as making money, once again Nintendo will win because they've been making money on their console since Day One. Plus they've got Metroid, Mario & Zelda to carry them along in the first-party department.

 

PS3's already lost DMC4 and GTA4 exclusivity. They might lose FF XIII. If they lose MGS4...what's left from third-parties?

[AndrewTS 0]

[Invictus 0]

 

Bwahahaha! That can't be real, can it?

[Guest Queen Leelee]

I found the XBox worth it... but, that's probably because I'm mostly into sports games, and 99% of the time, it was better than the PS2 version.

 

And yeah, modded, XBox is still the best entertainment console available.

[BUTT 0]

At the PS3 launch in London, Sony was actually giving away free 46-inch HDTVs (and a cab ride home!) to everyone who bought a PS3.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6474045.stm

 

That's kinda desperate.

[AndrewTS 0]

http://www.playfuls.com/news_06713_Europea...High_Price.html

 

Europeans Reject the PS3 Due to High Price

05:24 PM, March 26th 2007

by Dan Nicolae Alexa

 

Although the media characterized PS3’s launch in Europe as “controversialâ€, regular gaming fans all over the continent reported that in their countries Sony’s console stalls on stores’ shelves.

 

Desperate to get good press after a series of disasters (both concerning the PR and the manufacturing circuit), Sony readied at least 1 million consoles for the European debut of its next-gen gaming console, in order to stop any type of criticism that might appear.

 

Sony's senior PR manager for Europe, Jonathan Fargher, made the best resume for this kind of situation, in an interview with GameSpot UK: â€We're almost in a lose-lose situation--if we sell out on day one, then people will ask why we couldn't possibly have met demand, and that we should have been aware of the high demand for the machine. But if we don't sell out on day one because we've put steps in place to make sure that there's a steady stream of stock into retail, there's a large number of units on day one, then people will question why we haven't sold out.â€

 

That is of course true and perfectly logical. But despite Phil Harrison’s attempt to make the PS3 more attractive ("There are benefits for European consumers. There are more games available, more Blu-ray movies, and we've updated the online PlayStation network.") Euro-gamers treated the launch with more indifference than anywhere else in the world.

 

And although official reports from Sony are not yet available concerning the success or failure of PS3, a few sites here in Europe have already posted the genuine reports coming from regular fans, which are not favorable to Sony.

 

In Sweden for example, a report shows that most of the retailers are “fully equipped†with PS3s, a similar situation occurring in Britain and Denmark, but also suggests that until now few are interesting in buying one. Most of them look for a Wii.

 

Replies to the article further confirm that Euro-skepticism is now a concept that can be applied to PS3 too. Apparently, in Germany the PlayStation 3 has not been met with enthusiasm, while in Spain everyone wants a Wii, not a PS3.

 

What is probably even more interesting is that in Finland PS3’s launch party was apparently spiced up with a pornographic show…

 

But the most “famous†failed debut by far was in the French territory, where 95% of the consoles available at launch site remained unsold. Although Sony officials were expecting at least 3000 persons- and for that had mobilized 40 police officers- only 50 true-blue fans showed up. The co-organizers of the Paris event called it…a “non-eventâ€.

 

The UK launch (meaning the March 23 event) was probably the most successful on the continent, which is a paradox considering that the British get the console for the highest price (GBP 425). Sony thought at “sweetening†the offer by giving away 100 HD TVs to the first 100 buyers.

 

Sony said it was the biggest console launch ever seen in Britain, with 220,000 machines distributed around the country in preparation for high demand from shoppers.

 

Despite the efforts, some fans were just not satisfied. One British fan said on GameSpot that: “As a hardcore gamer I've not missed a console launch since I got an Atari 2600 as an Xmas present in 1978, but I'd not pay £425 for a games console, I'm the demographic that Sony is aiming for, buys loads of games has money to burn. But at that price its not worth it. […] I'm lucky that I get to go on Business to Japan once in a while (I work for Honda), so I bought my PS3 for £260 in Tokyo 3 months ago, So how come the PS3 is £260 in Japan and £425 in Europe, Japanese wages are higher than European wages, Shipping don’t cost £165 a time. We are ripped off in Europe all the time and we let them do it.

 

I paid £179 for my Wii, its £120 in Japan ,the 360 is £280 in the UK and around £220 in the US, so that’s about a £60 difference both times, ok I can live with that, but a £165 difference, do Sony think Europeans are stupid?â€

 

However, outside Virgin Megastore on London’s Oxford Street there was only one person- 17-year-old Rihatsu Thomas- to stand in line to get his PS3: “I thought there would be more people here,†he said. “I hope some more people come soon.â€

[BUTT 0]

I read on Joystiq that it was the most successful console launch in UK history. Of course, the UK is only part of Europe.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Just based on how Intel has taken control of the processor market

Intel has been flailing around and plummeting for a few years. They've got the performance crown again for now, but they've still got some issues.

 

Keep in mind Apple ditched it's PowerPC partners for Intel specifically because all three consoles are working with IBM, and Apple got all pissy and sad about being IBM's fourth banana because Macs don't sell as well as consoles do. Also, Jobs looked like a fool promising everyone a PowerBook G5 at Macworld some years ago that never came into being, so he was pissed about that. Meanwhile, Intel had been snubbed by Microsoft a few times over the past year (specifically through Windows 64-bit) and so those two companies found that they were finally made for a match.

[Craig Th 0]

My Sixaxis controller is broken. When I try and save something, it freezes it up. And when I push the PS3 button, I can only move up and down. X and O don't work.

 

I called Sony and are going to send me a new controller. However, I have to send mine back and pay for shipping. Which I think is bull (paying for shipping), but whatever.

[AndrewTS 0]

I read on Joystiq that it was the most successful console launch in UK history. Of course, the UK is only part of Europe.

 

 

Try saying that to a UKer's face, and you'll probably get punched in it.

 

As noted in the article, yeah it's a success in the UK. I guess that the "rest" of Europe is just a bunch of cheap people just like us yanks.