MarvinisaLunatic Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 the controversy with kenny and that substance is far from over, folks. talk on espn is that the same substance was on his hands when he pitched against ny and oakland. it didnt get mentioned until now though..convenient
Open the Muggy Gate Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 I know someone on Around the Horn is bound to go off on this in a big way... Mariotti: KENNY ROGERS IS A BUM AND A CHEATER! HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOSSED OUT IN THE FIRST! DETROIT IS TEH SUXORZ!
alfdogg Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Damaramu must've hacked into Muggy's account or something.
MFer Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 I know someone on Around the Horn is bound to go off on this in a big way... Mariotti: KENNY ROGERS IS A BUM AND A CHEATER! HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOSSED OUT IN THE FIRST! DETROIT IS TEH SUXORZ! I'll take Plachske on this one.
Open the Muggy Gate Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 I'd make some post about Oklahoma getting jobbed to Texas and Oregon, but it's outdated and shark jumping. Back on topic, it is gonna be the subject of some controversy. We can't deny that. If the Tigers win the series, how will it be looked on because of this?
MarvinisaLunatic Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 no one outside of st louis would care.. although let me be the first to welcome back the old standards of cheating instead of steroids..they should make the stuff legal now in fact..just cause...
Guest Paul Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 They're all over the "dirt" on his hand this morning. Too late guys. He's pitched 3 shutout games.
bobobrazil1984 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 didnt he clean the dirt (or whatever) off his hand after an inning? and continued pitching an awesome game? in fact he pitched better with a "clean hand". what non-story
Annabelle Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Posted October 23, 2006 didnt he clean the dirt (or whatever) off his hand after an inning? and continued pitching an awesome game? in fact he pitched better with a "clean hand". what non-story thats exactly what i am thinking. even if it was pine tar, it would have been more incriminating had he not pitched scoreless 2 hit ball over the next 7 innings.
J. Hungerford Smith Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 That is a picture of Rogers hand in the ALCS (left) and the World Series. Strange coincidence that there is "dirt" in the exact same spot on his hand, right? I think that's all the proof one would need. Also, the stories Rogers and the umpires are telling have clashed. The umpire said he had asked Rogers to wash whatever it was off his hand, while Rogers denied that and said the umpire only told him to take less time between pitches.
Guest Felonies! Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 And that doesn't even look like dirt. Anyway, why didn't La Russa tell the umps to check his hand? If they saw that healthy gob of pine tar or benzoin resin or whatever it was, they'd have to eject him, World Series or not. Does the relief pitcher get as much time as needed to warm up in that case, like they do if the previous pitcher is injured? Even if they do, that would give St. Louis a 2-0 lead, almost certainly. Of course, at this point, he can't get punished for anything, nor should he. That ship has sailed.
Guest Felonies! Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Back to this: do you think La Russa was tentative about this because his pal Jim Leyland was managing? I mean, it's not like Tony just coasts through these things: he and Edmonds accused Greg Maddux of cheating and made the umps check the ball. For Greg Maddux. Hah. Now he's going for a world championship here, the whole nation is yelling "PINE TAR!" and he doesn't do shit. Maybe the Tigers needed Dusty Baker in the dugout for La Russa to do shit.
Slayer Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Dusty just brings out the worst in people
Guest Princess Leena Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 La Russa probably didn't because it would affect the team, or make him look like a bad guy, or something. Either way, he was wrong. You play to win the game, and Tony isn't doing that.
Guest Felonies! Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 La Russa probably didn't because it would affect the team, or make him look like a bad guy, or something. Either way, he was wrong. You play to win the game, and Tony isn't doing that. I didn't know Tony La Russa had a reputation as a good guy to uphold here. And besides, we're dealing with probably the most notorious micromanager in the game. He doesn't exactly sit around with his thumb up his ass like Dusty Baker, or Torre and Macha, who also failed to call out Rogers. How in the world does he of all people let this go by and not do a thing? Wasn't Jimmy Edmonds there to bitch about the ball being doctored? And do you realize the ramifications of this incident? Tim McCarver just owned Bud Selig.
hyperchord24 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 That is a picture of Rogers hand in the ALCS (left) and the World Series. Strange coincidence that there is "dirt" in the exact same spot on his hand, right? I think that's all the proof one would need. Also, the stories Rogers and the umpires are telling have clashed. The umpire said he had asked Rogers to wash whatever it was off his hand, while Rogers denied that and said the umpire only told him to take less time between pitches. To, me this is concrete enough evidence. But, alas, what will happen? The cardinals win on a technicality? Assuming they investigate into this (which they won't) What punishment would be suitable?
2GOLD Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 That is a picture of Rogers hand in the ALCS (left) and the World Series. Strange coincidence that there is "dirt" in the exact same spot on his hand, right? I think that's all the proof one would need. Also, the stories Rogers and the umpires are telling have clashed. The umpire said he had asked Rogers to wash whatever it was off his hand, while Rogers denied that and said the umpire only told him to take less time between pitches. To, me this is concrete enough evidence. But, alas, what will happen? The cardinals win on a technicality? Assuming they investigate into this (which they won't) What punishment would be suitable? Suspend him for the World Series seems too excessive. But what will happen is nothing until after the series and they'll probably suspend him 5 games, about a start next season. Just suspend him for a few games next year and move on. Its already done with. The guy is pitching like a man posessed.
hyperchord24 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Suspend him for the World Series seems too excessive. But what will happen is nothing until after the series and they'll probably suspend him 5 games, about a start next season. Just suspend him for a few games next year and move on. Its already done with. The guy is pitching like a man posessed. We don't know if it's b/c of the foreign substance or what. Let's face it, the guy's never been this lights out. Of course, if they do suspend him for 5 games next year, that'll maybe set an example, but if the guy's got a World Series ring, who really cares? What message does that send? Of course, this discussion spills over into the steroid debate, and there's no real clear answer.
The Man in Blak Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 This whole thing smacks of the CYA that went down for Doug Eddings in the umpiring debacle from last year. The mismatched stories, the bizarre interpretations from the umpires ("it was observed as a clump of dirt"? Are you serious?) and, ultimately, the lack of anything getting done. If you're going to talk to him about it and not throw him out, then why even have the umpires out there to enforce the rules at all? That being said, I don't think there's anything you do to Kenny Rogers for this postseason and, really, even for next season. If they were to suspend Rogers for what has only been seen on TV, even though he's never been caught on the field, you get a classic "slippery slope" situation that the Union would likely fight tooth and nail. What's interesting is LaRussa's reaction throughout all of this. Not only did he not ask for Rogers to be inspected, but he instituted a virtual gag order on the rest of his team for talking about it. One poster on another board put it perfectly - LaRussa will "complain about the way the sun sets if it's distracting his players", but he let this one slide on the biggest stage of the game. That bothers me, not because of possible complacency from LaRussa, but that it gives off the impression that he's trying to cover for somebody on St. Louis.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 I really hope the Tigers win the World Series, since they deserve it and have been the best team in baseball for most of the season. Their "Worst to First" story makes me think of the 1991 World Series. Go Tigers, and Kenny Rogers winning the MVP will be quite interesting, if he can go one more scoreless game.
Guest Felonies! Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 OMG PINE TAR NEVER! Okay, that didn't really accomplish anything, but whatever. If you're trying to say that doctoring is a part of the game, well, then, yes it certainly is. Another part of the game is the opposing manager trying to keep the other guys honest. And just because it's a "part of the game" doesn't necessarily mean it ought to be. That's the same rationale behind "youse guys hit wunna my guys so we're gonna hit wunna youse guys," and that leads to more harm than good. Like MiB said, which I had sort of considered, is that La Russa must be covering somebody else's ass knowing that a successful ejection of Kenny Rogers would have Jim Leyland and the umps scouring the St. Louis dugout with a magnifying glass. We talk about Kenny Rogers never being this good, but when has Jeff Weaver been this good?
The Man in Blak Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Weaver was actually good back in 2001-2002, an up-and-coming ace for a Tigers team that was going nowhere at that point. EDIT: Here his BRef link, just for reference - http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/weaveje01.shtml
snuffbox Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 I keep forgetting how much we are supposed to accomplish over here at the TSM Sports Folder.
snuffbox Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 This is obviously a really big conspiracy and it's going to be up to us & ESPN to crack this fucker.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Woody Paige just owned Kenny Rogers on Around the Horn, and even Stat Boy was shocked to see Paige give a serious re-enactment of pine tar and dirt sticking to it, in the same exact area as Rogers' "dirt".
hyperchord24 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 This whole thing smacks of the CYA that went down for Doug Eddings in the umpiring debacle from last year. The mismatched stories, the bizarre interpretations from the umpires ("it was observed as a clump of dirt"? Are you serious?) and, ultimately, the lack of anything getting done. If you're going to talk to him about it and not throw him out, then why even have the umpires out there to enforce the rules at all? That being said, I don't think there's anything you do to Kenny Rogers for this postseason and, really, even for next season. If they were to suspend Rogers for what has only been seen on TV, even though he's never been caught on the field, you get a classic "slippery slope" situation that the Union would likely fight tooth and nail. What's interesting is LaRussa's reaction throughout all of this. Not only did he not ask for Rogers to be inspected, but he instituted a virtual gag order on the rest of his team for talking about it. One poster on another board put it perfectly - LaRussa will "complain about the way the sun sets if it's distracting his players", but he let this one slide on the biggest stage of the game. That bothers me, not because of possible complacency from LaRussa, but that it gives off the impression that he's trying to cover for somebody on St. Louis. What do you mean by that?
The Man in Blak Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 Like MiB said, which I had sort of considered, is that La Russa must be covering somebody else's ass knowing that a successful ejection of Kenny Rogers would have Jim Leyland and the umps scouring the St. Louis dugout with a magnifying glass.
Guest Paul Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 I think Tony (who as Czech said, micromanages the shit out of each game) is a moron for not getting Rogers ejected. Doesn't make sense. I think this will taint Rogers in every city, except Detroit.
The Man in Blak Posted October 23, 2006 Report Posted October 23, 2006 After all, it ruined Gaylord Perry's career and reputation.
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