Rape

[2GOLD 0]

To clear up what I meant about people know what prisons are like, it's simply put we know as a society the improvements aren't coming yet. And while it's not right, they aren't happening. I'm all for fixing this shit, it's pretty horrible on many fronts and I do feel bad that this is what they have to go through no matter what the crime is (and yes, he deserves to be in big time prison. He didn't give a shit if he did hurt someone, which is obvious from getting caught three fucking times doing it. He deserves to be in the major prison, I am not changing my opinion on that). But right now, we all know that IS the horrifying reality of what prison is like. No it's not right and yes it needs to be changed, but that isn't happening and no politician is going to come out and say he wants to put more money into fixing the prison system over education.

 

And the American public still doesn't give two shits about people with AIDS cause our government in the 80's did such a good job tying it to just the homosexual population. Which is one of the reasons people don't care besides the fact that as a society, we rarely care about our lowest people (i.e prisoners and the homeless).

 

What's the solution? So far I've seen is "release the pot heads", which isn't going to make a bunch of guys, some of which are beyond horrible people, stop raping other men to fulfill some animalistic need (be nice if it did). Add more guards? You'll need to increase funding into the prison system, cutting away money from areas such as state health care, education and other programs. And an increase in guards will also mean needing to overhaul the recruitment process immensely, which will require additional funding. Larger prisons? Need to take money away from road construction and other general need areas. Even with a lowering of population and individual cells, you are still going to have about 4 guards trying to monitor a couple hundred inmates and while it may stop some of the rapes a lot of them are still going to happen.

 

Frankly, I'm for increasing funding to make better guards including adding additional guards and a total overhaul of the punishment system for the actions of ones who commit the crime of rape in prison. Perhaps one of the easiest ways to do this and prevent most prison crimes is to add cameras to every cell and every section of a prison. Then when it starts to go down, you have all the evidence you need. Knowing they are under constant watchful eye may prevent some of the rapes a little more effectively. However, that will require tons of money to install a system like that. I'm all for taking funds from certain programs to make it all happen but how many others are willing to do it is the question?

 

The other problem you are going to have is guys with life in prison aren't going to care about getting additional years for rape. They are already in for 50 years, threating them with an additional 5 to 10 years probably isn't going to stop them. The best you can do in that situation is transfer the victim to another prison.

 

All you can really have for this problem are stop gap solutions. They are going to cut down on the problem in minor ways but ultimately, nothing is going to prevent the sick fucks who want to rape someone from raping someone.

[snuffbox 0]

Why is the marijuana factor's impact on this so incredibly hard to grasp?

 

1) If they aren't in prison it would free alot of room. Prisoners wouldnt have to share their cells with gay rapists. Monitoring would be easier with less people to watch & without people sharing cells.

 

2) Less money spent (it's billions) policing plant smokers would free the funds up for more guards, more closed circuit monitoring, more rehabilitation rather than grotesque retribution.

 

3) Marijuana is one of the biggest focuses of law enforcement. The 'criminals' are easy to catch & will often go along willingly, the lobbies pushing for its continued criminalization is massive, etc. If law enforcement didnt have to focus on it, at all, they could focus entirely on actual crimes & victims.

 

Seriously, this isn't about getting high. It's about fixing our legal and jail system & the fastest and simplest way to both free up funds & attention is the decriminalization of marijuana. But I guess it's just easier to say that's Jerry Garcia nonsense and only hippies say we shouldn't waste Billions hunting smokers down.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I do agree the "war on drugs" has been basically a total waste of money, especially going after the marijuana trade. Better to spend that money on education or whatever. Hell, spend it on anything else.

[naiwf 0]

My problem is when people say that the level of offense needed to put you in jail determines what kind of treatment you should get while you're there.

 

"Now if this guy was a brutal murderer or a child molester, I wouldn't have all that much sympathy for him. But we have a lot of people in prison here for fucking weed. And they're being subjected to this shit."

 

I don't see the point in arguing whether getting raped is fair depending on what you did to get locked up in the first place. As has been said by a few others, you don't go to ass raping prison for getting caught with a dimebag once. You don't go there for having 2 beers and driving either or there would be NO traffic in NYC at night on the weekends. I know it's overly simplifying this, but if you don't want to get raped by PRISONERS with nothing left to lose, don't put yourself in a position to end up in PRISON.

[2GOLD 0]

I don't want weed to be used outside of the home or for medical use. I don't think it's right other people might have to deal with a second hand high when they aren't smoking the stuff. You aren't going to get drunk sitting in a bar unless you drink. You are going to get high sitting in a place full of people smoking pot. Not as high as their crazy asses, but you will get high.

 

People who use it for home and medical use. Yes, release them. It's not something law enforcement should waste their time on and it's a waste of money preventing that.

[snuffbox 0]

Who has ever advocating smoking away in public?

 

The idea is that people should be able to smoke if they choose in their own homes. With doctors wanting it, and states voting for it, it should be of medical use without fear of a Federal raid.

 

Nobody is advocating smoking in Wal-Marts and blowing hits in passersby's faces.

[EricMM 0]

That is blaming the prisoners for getting raped.

 

Just to be clear.

 

You're blaming the victim of a crime for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, the place being prison, the time, anytime.

 

It is terrible when it gets done to a woman for being out looking good at night but it's okay when a guy gets blamed for being raped?

 

A model prisoner has much less ability to defend themselves than a woman.

[naiwf 0]

No, we're saying that if you KNOW that there's a good chance you'd get raped by going to a particular location and it's totally within your ability to avoid said location, what kind of sympathy do you expect if you end up going there and end up getting raped by guys you KNEW had the potential to rape you before you got there?

 

A woman who gets raped at night doesn't have the option of knowing ahead of time that by wearing a specific outfit (which isn't a requirement) and walking into her building or a bathroom somewhere that she's gonna get raped. If she did have that knowledge ahead of time, my hunch is that she'd stay home.

 

A "model" prisoner still committed a crime to be put in prison. Prisons are full of rapists and guards that don't care/can't do anything to stop these things from happening. What's the easiest way to not have a dude/multiple dudes take you virginity? Don't end up in prison in the first place.

[snuffbox 0]

Do you know anything, about anything, naif?

[EricMM 0]

Again, and hopefully for the last time, this is not a forum on crime and punishment.

 

People commit crime. People commit crime. People commit crime.

 

The question is whether or not you feel that that crime makes them deserving or not of: rape, repeated gang rape, deadly disease, and mental ruin.

 

You know being raped can break someone, turn them into a rapist themselves. Why would you A-L-L-O-W that to go on in prisons?

 

And if you say, "Oh that's not what I'm saying." Yes it is. That's all you're saying when you're writing it off as, "well you shouldn't be in prisons" You're avoiding the problem entirely, so either you don't care or ... that's about it.

[2GOLD 0]

Who has ever advocating smoking away in public?

 

The idea is that people should be able to smoke if they choose in their own homes. With doctors wanting it, and states voting for it, it should be of medical use without fear of a Federal raid.

 

Nobody is advocating smoking in Wal-Marts and blowing hits in passersby's faces.

 

Some morons involved in the legalization group are. Get those idiots out of the picture and it might get some push.

[EricMM 0]

The mindset is too strong, coupled with the industry.

 

Alcohol and cigarette makers would never, ever not fight legalizing it.

 

Can you imagine how much money Big Alcohol would lose?

[snuffbox 0]

Alcohol/tobacco/pharmacy lobbies & an unwillingness on politicians part to admit they were wrong are the sole actual reasons against marijuana reform. It's a pretty steep hill to climb.

[naiwf 0]

Again, and hopefully for the last time, this is not a forum on crime and punishment.

 

People commit crime. People commit crime. People commit crime.

 

The question is whether or not you feel that that crime makes them deserving or not of: rape, repeated gang rape, deadly disease, and mental ruin.

 

You know being raped can break someone, turn them into a rapist themselves. Why would you A-L-L-O-W that to go on in prisons?

 

And if you say, "Oh that's not what I'm saying." Yes it is. That's all you're saying when you're writing it off as, "well you shouldn't be in prisons" You're avoiding the problem entirely, so either you don't care or ... that's about it.

 

You're arguing whether people DESERVE those things. I'm arguing that almost everyone should know by now that that shit happens daily in prison and that prison life is never going to be easy whether you got put in there for things that some consider benign like selling drugs, or getting drunk and being fortunate enough to not take someone out, or for the crimes everyone agrees should be punished like rape or murdering someone in cold blood. There's NO WAY to stop things like drugs being sold, or people being raped or killed in prisons when the guards can profit from it by turning a blind eye. No one DESERVES to be gang raped, not even a pedophile, but the odds are substantially higher that something like that will happen in prison than out on the street. Is it wrong that it happens? Absolutely. At the same time I don't really feel all beat up inside that someone who repeatedly broke the law and got locked up in a federal prison ended up getting an unnecessarily harsh reality check about how prison life works.

[AndrewTS 0]

Says it was his third DUI offense.

 

You drink. You drive. You lose. Your BUTT virginity. If you keep doing it.

 

Doesn't make it any less fucked up, though.

[EricMM 0]

So you're saying that there's no way to stop it.

 

That's certainly A stance.

 

It's incorrect. But, it's better than saying they deserve it.

[snuffbox 0]

How do the people shrugging this off feel about the larger fellows that have already commited rape or murder (or even DUI!) being allowed to continue doing that? Is that really a 'punishment'?

[naiwf 0]

So you're saying that there's no way to stop it.

 

That's certainly A stance.

 

It's incorrect. But, it's better than saying they deserve it.

 

You're incredibly naive if you think you can stop anything negative from happening in prison unless you go the route of 24/7 solitary for every inmate in every jail across the land.

 

P.S. Good luck with finding the funding and space to accomplish your goal.

[snuffbox 0]

We've already covered how to get both more space & more funds. Reading not a strong suit either, naif?

[2GOLD 0]

The mindset is too strong, coupled with the industry.

 

Alcohol and cigarette makers would never, ever not fight legalizing it.

 

Can you imagine how much money Big Alcohol would lose?

 

Not as much as they think. Keeping it as an in-home things would eliminate any loss they would suffer in clubs, they wouldn't lose the southern drinkers and the only sales that would really get hurt is by people who just want to sit around at home.

 

I think the steep hill could be made a little smaller if the legalization crowd would seperate itself from some of the bigger idiots. It needs to find a way to help the public understand they are not advocating use to children and public use. Better explanation is needed or the movement is never going to get on the first step of the hill.

[Cartman 0]

Why does everyone seem to think overcrowding in prisons is caused by Marijuana offenders? In 2003 20% of all Prisoners were Drug offenders. Out of that 20%, what percentage do you think is just people who get busted for weed?

 

Come on now.

 

Get rid of life sentences and replace with executions. Fixed!

 

(Yes, I understand there are people who are wrongly convicted of crimes.)

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Get rid of life sentences and replace with executions. Fixed!

 

This thread is likely to go astray soon.

[naiwf 0]

We've already covered how to get both more space & more funds. Reading not a strong suit either, naif?

 

By freeing "harmless potheads"? If you're stupid enough to do time because you need weed you deserve to be in jail for it.

[NoCalMike 0]

The mindset is too strong, coupled with the industry.

 

Alcohol and cigarette makers would never, ever not fight legalizing it.

 

Can you imagine how much money Big Alcohol would lose?

 

Not as much as they think. Keeping it as an in-home things would eliminate any loss they would suffer in clubs, they wouldn't lose the southern drinkers and the only sales that would really get hurt is by people who just want to sit around at home.

 

I think the steep hill could be made a little smaller if the legalization crowd would seperate itself from some of the bigger idiots. It needs to find a way to help the public understand they are not advocating use to children and public use. Better explanation is needed or the movement is never going to get on the first step of the hill.

 

That's like asking anti-Iraq War activists to try and ban pacifists and anarchists from participating in the marches. You have to draw the line somewhere with the american people to be able to judge an argument on merit and not have their opinion swayed over a small group of clowns that crash the party. I know it's tough for some to understand, but Cheech & Chong types aren't the brunt of the pro-legalization movement.

[snuffbox 0]

Astray, indeed.

 

I guess the enjoyment of rape just goes over my head.

[Black Lushus 0]

Clearly an Emerald City in every prison is the way to go...although Beecher may tell you otherwise!

[2GOLD 0]

The mindset is too strong, coupled with the industry.

 

Alcohol and cigarette makers would never, ever not fight legalizing it.

 

Can you imagine how much money Big Alcohol would lose?

 

Not as much as they think. Keeping it as an in-home things would eliminate any loss they would suffer in clubs, they wouldn't lose the southern drinkers and the only sales that would really get hurt is by people who just want to sit around at home.

 

I think the steep hill could be made a little smaller if the legalization crowd would seperate itself from some of the bigger idiots. It needs to find a way to help the public understand they are not advocating use to children and public use. Better explanation is needed or the movement is never going to get on the first step of the hill.

 

That's like asking anti-Iraq War activists to try and ban pacifists and anarchists from participating in the marches. You have to draw the line somewhere with the american people to be able to judge an argument on merit and not have their opinion swayed over a small group of clowns that crash the party. I know it's tough for some to understand, but Cheech & Chong types aren't the brunt of the pro-legalization movement.

 

Yes, I know it and you know it but the American Public does NOT know it. Cause the biggest vocal speakers are those Cheech and Chong type idiots. It's a problem and if we want to get on the first step of making it legal for the people who need it (fuckers who smoke it to get high can wait longer), a better front is going to need to set up.

 

The ONLY step that really matters right now is getting it pushed ahead for people who use it medically. And then allowing harsh sentences on the ones who STEAL it from the people who really need it because those twits are forcing the movement backwards as well by making it look like an ultra addictive drug that effects others. Unless someone disagrees that people who steal it from prescribed individuals who use it for pain management aren't committing a pretty serious crime.

 

My stance has remained the same. Legal for home and medical use. Illegal from people under the age of 18. If you steal it from someone who it was prescribed, it should be tried as robbery with assault and a minimum 5 year prison sentence unless under the age of 18, then it is a juevnile sentence to be deemed by the court. You are placing said individual in unbearable pain for your personal gain. I will not change my opinion on the last part, no chance in hell.

 

 

Maybe that IS the way to clean up prisons Lushus. We'll force Congress and the House to watch every episode of Oz. Watch how fast they clean up those prisons. Toss in the Shawkshank Redemption between the 2nd and 3rd season and we're in business.

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

Get rid of life sentences and replace with executions. Fixed!

 

This thread is likely to go astray soon.

This thread just makes me really angry.

[Ripper 0]

Eric, how can you conceiveably think you can prevent it? You yourself ranted that PEOPLE COMMIT CRIIME, well, then rape in prison is just as preventable as crime in general. If you can't stop murder rape and drug use anywhere else, why do you think they can prevent it in prison. Constant solitary? Are we just going to ingnore the mental damage done by that?

 

Outside of freeing all those wonderful pot smokers that are completely harmless and have never done anything to warrent prison time in their lives and clearing up about 5-10 percent of the space in prison which would some how allow you to house all the other 95-90 percent of the prisoners in their own cell...

 

...

 

 

outside of that, what is a actual fix. How can you threaten a life termer with any punishment due to rape? Prison is a fucked up place. DON'T GO. That is the fix. If people stop committing crimes, there won't be anyone to put in the prisons. That happening is just as realistic as stopping crime inside the prison walls.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I think what's most important is that stories like this getting out changes the average American's philosophy about prisons. Any time I bring up the idea of a broken system, all I get is claptrap about prisoners having it so easy with their cable televisions and weight benches and three free meals a day.