The Dark Knight

[AndrewTS 0]

I can't remember who said it earlier, but Burton did get lucky with Batman 89 and heres why.

 

Burton has said of his own accotd that he has NEVER read a comic in his life let alone a Batman comic. His only knowledge of the character was the campy 60s TV show. So he took that and put his gothic spin on it (becuase he's a shitty director) and got the tone right, but the charactrisation was horrible. In other words, he got lucky. If Burton wasn't a usless gothic director, it would have been another film version of the 60s show.

 

*thumbs*

 

Lots of people forget this point. The movie is shot well and Keaton was a good Batman, but shitty Bruce Wayne, and the Napier/Joker/killedmyparents stuff was kind of annoying. However, the "I made you! No! I made you first!" was some really crummy writing, IMO.

 

I think the best thing about Batman 89 is that it paved the way for Batman TAS and the TimmDiniverse, even though that was never the intention.

 

 

& Robin is really, really fucking bad. It's pretty much terrible on all accounts. Bad acting, bad script, bad characters, bad story and lame action sequences. It's a really bad movie, and for what may be the first time ever, I agree with Jingus that Batman and Robin is the worst superhero movie ever made.

 

To paraphrase Mike Nelson, Batman and Robin isn't the worst movie ever. It's one of the worse things ever. Also--and I mean this in a non-prejudicial to any persons way--HOLY f'n CRAP IS THAT THING EVER GAY!!!

[DarKnight 0]

Yeah, words can't describe how awesome Batman: The Animated Series is. Even though I didn't like The New Batman Adventures from what I saw of it, I need to pick up the box set and see if it gets any better. Some episodes sound really good from that, like "Mad Love" and "Old Wounds".

[dubq 0]

DK: I don't know how you could be a fan of TAS and not continue on to watch the New Batman Adventures. I mean, say all you want about the redesign of the caracters.. but it's the same cast and most of the original crew, and it's a direct continuation of TAS.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

DK: I don't know how you could be a fan of TAS and not continue on to watch the New Batman Adventures. I mean, say all you want about the redesign of the caracters.. but it's the same cast and most of the original crew, and it's a direct continuation of TAS.

I knew one person who didn't like New Batman because of the extra focus on the sidekicks...and who hated the characterization of Tim Drake/Robin.

[Jingus 0]

Speaking of newish Batman cartoons, anyone ever catch that The Batman piece o' crap? I saw that The Batman vs Dracula direct-to-video movie they made, and whoa Jesus was it terrible. They literally made the Joker into a barefoot monkeyman with dreadlocks who fought with wire-fu.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The thing that really bothers me about the Joker killed Batman's parents subplot is that it felt so tacked on. It doesn't change the rest of the film at all aside from a couple of lines of dialogue at the end. Had it meant something I would have been okay with it, but Batman already had enough reasons to want to stop the Joker by that point. Burton trying to emphasize how Batman & Joker aren't that different and how they made each other really falls flat when one considers that one guy is doing this to protect civilians and the other is a murdering psychopath. Why Burton pushed that angle when the two characters motives and actions are so clearly different is beyond my understanding.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Speaking of newish Batman cartoons, anyone ever catch that The Batman piece o' crap? I saw that The Batman vs Dracula direct-to-video movie they made, and whoa Jesus was it terrible. They literally made the Joker into a barefoot monkeyman with dreadlocks who fought with wire-fu.

I heard that series got better as time goes on...despite how Joker was.

 

The first of the two Clayfaces they used had an interesting story to it.

[DarKnight 0]

I did watch the first episode of "The Batman", and I thought it was so horrible, that I tried to pretend it didn't exist, and I haven't even thought of watching that show since. I guess you could say that I never really gave The New Batman Adventures a chance, since I just couldn't get used to the redesigns at all. The Scarecrow looked badass, and the Penguin looked like his normal comics version, but I just thought the redesigns were strange looking. Some characters still looked the same though, like Two-Face and Harley Quinn.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

Here's a short history of Batman '89 off the top of my head. Hope it clears some things up.

 

At this point, everybody has heard how they wanted it to be Bill Murray and Eddie Murphy in an Ivan Reitman-led comedy version of Batman. At some point, this idea was dropped. You can probably thank Michael Uslan for that. He's got a pretty interesting story, if you want to look him up. Anyways. It wasn't until Beetlejuice became a hit that Tim Burton got the job. By this point, Sam Hamm had written the legendary shooting draft that includes the horseback chase and Dick Grayson/Robin. I believe the climax even involves the sonar bat attractor from Year One/Batman Begins. Obviously, Burton would cut Robin just like he would in Batman Returns. What happened to the climax is a little more eventful.

 

No one on the crew (that includes such non-comic fans as Burton, Jon Gruber, and Jon Peters of An Evening with Kevin Smith fame) liked the ending. It needed more punch. Jon Peters wasn't dreaming of a giant spider yet, so they turned to their writer. Only, he wasn't on set. There was a WGA strike at the time, meaning Sam Hamm couldn't participate in the film making. So the braintrust decided to make Joker the murderer of the Waynes, some Hamm vehemently disagreed with when he saw the film. He still protests it to this day.

 

So while AndrewTS is totally on the money about BTAS, I have to defend The Batman. I never thought I would, but I caught an episode a few weeks ago that held up. Sure, it was a Superman crossover with the full Bruce Timm cast of voice actors (at least Daly, Delaney, and Brown), but I think it may have improved since its awful, vampire-riddled beginnings.

 

This has been Useless Batman Information Theater.

[DarKnight 0]

This is off topic, but can anyone tell me if the Hush story arc is worth reading?

[Vampiro69 0]

Hush is a decent read. Lee's art is great, except for his Joker. Its not the greatest Bat-story ever, but it is a good read.

[DarKnight 0]

Glad to know. Its a story I've been interested in reading for a long time.

[Nighthawk 0]

Yeah, I really like Jim Lee's interpretation of all the characters, and well, while I don't exactly have a problem with his Joker... the Joker gets interpreted in so many ways, it's probably on the low end. The only Joker I ever really disliked was Tim Sale's and even that's starting to grow on me in a Jack Skellington kind of way.

 

Jim Lee's Harley is my favorite one besides Bruce Timm's, though.

[CBright7831 0]

So while AndrewTS is totally on the money about BTAS, I have to defend The Batman. I never thought I would, but I caught an episode a few weeks ago that held up. Sure, it was a Superman crossover with the full Bruce Timm cast of voice actors (at least Daly, Delaney, and Brown), but I think it may have improved since its awful, vampire-riddled beginnings.

 

This has been Useless Batman Information Theater.

Season four of The Batman is a damn fine season if I do say so myself. They cut back on Joker/Penguin episodes and introduced Robin, Kill Moth, Clayface II (Basil Karlo), Black Mask, Harley Quinn, and Martin Manhunter. Not to mention the "Artifacts" episode which pays heavy tribute to The Dark Knight Returns (with appearances by Nightwing and Oracle), Penguin starting up a Injustice for All Gang in "Team Penguin", an all out battle royal between Batman/Robin and his entire rogues gallery in "Rumors", and at the end of "The Joining Part 2",

Batman owns the Justice League

. I only hated one episode in that season and that was "The Everywhere Man" episode. Besides that - good season from beginning to end.

 

EDIT - Oh and Kevin Conroy (as John Grayson) and Mark Hamill (as Tony Zucco) reunite in "A Matter of Family".

[dubq 0]

I thought I would hate The Batman.. but apparently it was the Kevin Conroy fanboy in me that was stopping me from liking it. Once I got over that it's not too bad of a series, actually. It's not as "kiddy" as Teen Titans, definitely not as serious as BTAS, but definitely worth giving a chance.

[Brett Favre 0]

I was planning on seeing it on IMAX tonight, 3 hours from now at 8:45 Eastern, and that shit is sold out. I check for tomorrow at 8:45 and that's sold out too. Damn. Good to see that it has legs, and I can see it battling for the top spot again this weekend, but I really wanted to see it in IMAX.

[Anakin Flair 0]

If anybody is interested, I put Hush up in the Comic Request Thread in the Comics section. Sorry, should have done it sooner.

[Guest WhackingCockDick]

[AntiLeaf33 0]

I was planning on seeing it on IMAX tonight, 3 hours from now at 8:45 Eastern, and that shit is sold out. I check for tomorrow at 8:45 and that's sold out too. Damn. Good to see that it has legs, and I can see it battling for the top spot again this weekend, but I really wanted to see it in IMAX.

 

Saw it in IMAX last night and it was well worth the money. Not a lot of scenes were shot in IMAX, but the ones that were were amazing

[Boner Kawanger 0]

There's a rumor that if Nolan does return for number three, he and his DP want to shoot the whole movie in Imax.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

There's a rumor that if Nolan does return for number three, he and his DP want to shoot the whole movie in Imax.

 

 

I don't think there's any if about it. Nolan is almost certainly doing the third one. Him and Christian Bale saying 'well, we might do another one...' is probably just another tactic to get more money.

 

I can see Bale holding out for a $20-30 million check easily.

[bob_barron 0]

I believe Bale is contracted for three films, and Nolan was only contracted for two.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...atman-film.html

 

Hooray for rumours!

[Boner Kawanger 0]

Haha nothing in that article is right until they start talking about The Dark Knight being a summer blockbuster. The part about filming in Vancouver is especially bizarre.

[Maztinho 0]

For some reason I see Cher bizarrely working as Catwoman. Not that they should do it, but somehow I could see it not totally sucking.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

She's nearly 70.

[DarKnight 0]

what a bizarre rumor. I mean, I do think Catwoman will be in the next movie, but the Cher stuff is just odd. I do think Johnny Depp would make a good Riddler though, so I hope that comes true. I also think the movie will be called The Caped Crusader too.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I've personally been hoping for Shadow of the Bat since they announced the title The Dark Knight years ago. I think The Caped Crusader is too predictable and too cheery. I know it looks like the themes for the next movie may include redemption and the dawn coming, but to me, one thing that personifies Batman is that the dawn is never coming. For Batman to create a perfect world, it would have to be one that didn't need Batman. Bruce Wayne is Batman forever, now. And it's not a happy ending like in..Batman Forever. He can be redeemed, sure. I just think the Nolans could do something if they told that story and used Shadow of the Bat as a starting off point for themes as they did The Dark Knight. In short, the Shadow of the Bat has to always be covering Gotham. Batman is the thumb in Gotham City's dam; if he's gone, so is the city.

[Brett Favre 0]

I agree. he third movie should end with all the villains running around Gotham, and the public realizing that they need Batman.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

Perfect. Maybe even Gordon can brief him on The Joker breaking out, Scarecrow on the loose, and then drop some hints about some unseen villains to bookend the series.

 

If someone has a scan of the last page of "The Man Who Falls" by Denny O'Neil, could you post it? It was an inspiration for Batman Begins. It even appeared in the Begins trade paperback adaptation. It's a perfect summary of how Batman's mission must never and will never end, and it perfectly encapsulates how tragic and heroic it really is.

[dubq 0]

what a bizarre rumor. I mean, I do think Catwoman will be in the next movie, but the Cher stuff is just odd. I do think Johnny Depp would make a good Riddler though, so I hope that comes true. I also think the movie will be called The Caped Crusader too.

 

I wonder if Johnny Depp will even do a movie where he doesn't have to put on a British accent...