Michael Vick's "Dog Fight" Investigation

[Fökai]

On a personal note, a guy in my town - my little fucking town with 700 people, where everyone knows everyone - a resident who arrived a few years ago had a dispute with a neighbor over how loud his dogs were when they were chained up. It was more a matter of them barking in the early morning when people would jog by. He decided a few weeks back to sneak into the neighbors yard, trap one of his dogs in a corner and bludgeon it to death (with a bat, I believe). He then decapitated the dog and buried in his yard and waited there for the neighbor to discover the blood trail leading to the mound of dirt that covered the dog.

 

Would you condone this, iggy? Would you consider this to be a "non-story"? What about if he was a celebrity or public figure? Wait, I guess you already said they're "fucking animals" and the average American can be easily manipulated by the media to "defend them".

 

That's pathetic. Probably one of the worse statements I've read here in the forums.

[Dobbs 3K]

Dog fighting is something best left to the backwater third world and Muslim countries. America is supposed to be above sub-human garbage like this.

[bob_barron]

There's really no point in trying to use logic here though since all anyone does is distort my words out of context or use emotional appeals and ad hominem attacks.

 

One last time, my main point isn't that it's so important that Vick plays all 16 regular season games. I really don't even care. I don't think I watched a single Falcons game last year anyway. My point is that the whole thing is a non-story. They're fucking animals. The fact that everyone's all up in arms and passionate to defend them just shows how easily manipulated the average American is.

 

Amazingly enough, your main point makes you look like even more of an idiot. I hope you get attacked by a dog.

[Guest Soriano's Torn Quad]

It's not looking good for Vick right now, is it.

[Your Paragon of Virtue]

Link me to FK Teale vs. Frank Zappa Mask, Slayer.

 

It's only because Vick is black, you know. If this was Brett Favre not only would it not be a negative story it would be alright. They wouldn't even care if he was guilty. "Oh that Brett Favre, just a good ole country boy. He's been doin this since he was a kid on a farm, he doesn't let superstardom get to his head. Stays true to his roots."

 

If it was Matt Millen the Lions would probably end up giving him a contract extension.

[Precious Roy]

If it was Matt Millen the Lions would probably end up giving him a contract extension.

 

 

[Vern Gagne]

Link me to FK Teale vs. Frank Zappa Mask, Slayer.

 

It's only because Vick is black, you know. If this was Brett Favre not only would it not be a negative story it would be alright. They wouldn't even care if he was guilty. "Oh that Brett Favre, just a good ole country boy. He's been doin this since he was a kid on a farm, he doesn't let superstardom get to his head. Stays true to his roots."

 

If it was Matt Millen the Lions would probably end up giving him a contract extension.

 

 

I think this is it. forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=2397

[Guest Vitamin X]

It's only because Vick is black, you know. If this was Brett Favre not only would it not be a negative story it would be alright. They wouldn't even care if he was guilty. "Oh that Brett Favre, just a good ole country boy. He's been doin this since he was a kid on a farm, he doesn't let superstardom get to his head. Stays true to his roots."

 

I don't think that's necessarily true, not at all. It's been magnified because of the barbarity of the crimes, and because Vick is a famous face for the league and unfortunately for the game for a few years now.

[Guest Soriano's Torn Quad]

I wasn't sure YPOV was being serious with that. Here's the thing, though: hasn't ESPN circled the wagons for Vick quite a bit, proclaiming "innocent until proven guilty" till their voices are shot? I think the non-jock-sniffing, non-conflict-of-interest-having contingent of the media would be just as critical of Favre as they have been on Vick. It's only a racial issue insofar as dog fighting is evidently more prevalent among southern blacks than southern whites.

[Ripper]

Eh, him being vick, who happens to be a black QB with cornrows and has that huge contract, is why he was automatically guilty in the public eye though.

 

I say if it was Peyton Manning, it wouldn't have been that way. But if it were, say, Jeff George or Ryan Leaf (when they were relevant) it would have probably been the same.

 

I am still waiting to see what happens here though. Like I said before, if his boys testify against him, he is up shits creek.

 

I truely believe that he could probably still get off, but those threated racketeering charges would make almost anyone take the plea.

 

But I am not so sure if he can afford to take one. I mean, it will be seen as a admission of guilt without the ability to even slightly defend anything.

 

From looking at the whole case, I think that his boys said they wanted to start a dogfighting scheme and he gave them the money for it. The first guy said that Vick funded the startup and then said that he and the other three split the money so it looks like Mike really didn't get money from this and might have not known what was going on there.

 

But funding it alone is reason for him to get suspended from the league and get the ire of the people honestly. It was plain stupidity.

 

But with a guilty plea, he will forever be thought of as a guy that was at the fights, shooting dogs and the like when he isn't even accused of that.

 

Plus he is going to get a stiffer suspension than Jamal Lewis and Pacman Jones and Chris Henry and Tank Johnson(well his initial punishment) and Leonard Little combined. Really thinking about that....wow .

[Ripper]

I wasn't sure YPOV was being serious with that. Here's the thing, though: hasn't ESPN circled the wagons for Vick quite a bit, proclaiming "innocent until proven guilty" till their voices are shot? I think the non-jock-sniffing, non-conflict-of-interest-having contingent of the media would be just as critical of Favre as they have been on Vick. It's only a racial issue insofar as dog fighting is evidently more prevalent among southern blacks than southern whites.

 

 

Have you watched ESPN? They have pretty much called the guy guilty from day one. They circled the wagons around KObe, but Vick, heck no.

 

And I disagree with the rest of the media too. Its vicks image. The media will go after "hip-hop" guys. Simple as that. If this was Jason Williams they would be all over his ass but not so much if it were Kobe or Ray Allen.

 

Guys like Vick or Iverson who are seen as urban get the guilty until proven innnocent treatment from the media. Them and republicans.

[tominator89]

Eh, him being vick, who happens to be a black QB with cornrows and has that huge contract, is why he was automatically guilty in the public eye though.

 

I have to disagree here. Vick was automatically assumed to be guilty because of the previous acts of stupidity that he was involved in. The Duke lacrosse players were viewed as guilty and they're clean-cut white boys.

[Ripper]

Eh, him being vick, who happens to be a black QB with cornrows and has that huge contract, is why he was automatically guilty in the public eye though.

 

I have to disagree here. Vick was automatically assumed to be guilty because of the previous acts of stupidity that he was involved in. The Duke lacrosse players were viewed as guilty and they're clean-cut white boys.

 

Two completely different cases first of all.

 

And you have to admit, Vicks "acts of stupidity" consist of not wanting to throw away a water bottle this one time. How does that equate "Well, its no suprise that he paid for the running of a dog fighting opperation. He didn't want to throw away that water bottle this one time."

 

Thats not even a logical jump there.

 

And gang rape cases = the guys are always assumed guilty. One on one rape cases = if the guy is famous the girl is assumed to be lying.

 

I think that is some unwritten media rule.

 

 

[Cheech Tremendous]

Eh, him being vick, who happens to be a black QB with cornrows and has that huge contract, is why he was automatically guilty in the public eye though.

 

I have to disagree here. Vick was automatically assumed to be guilty because of the previous acts of stupidity that he was involved in. The Duke lacrosse players were viewed as guilty and they're clean-cut white boys.

 

Two completely different cases first of all.

 

And you have to admit, Vicks "acts of stupidity" consist of not wanting to throw away a water bottle this one time. How does that equate "Well, its no suprise that he paid for the running of a dog fighting opperation. He didn't want to throw away that water bottle this one time."

 

 

Vick's acts of stupidity also included the Ron Mexico ordeal, the smoking weed on myspace thing, and flipping off the fans. None of those are major crimes on the level of dogfighting, but they displayed ia lack of maturity and the tendency to make bad decisions. Vick has a horrible reputation as a guy who is spoiled. It was easy to make the logical leap to dog fighting charges given his checkered past.

[Ripper]

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Are you honestly going to say that if, say Peyton Manning, had a picture taken with him OBVIOUSLY smoking a black and mild. NO MISTAKING that it was a black and mild. NO WAY to confuse it as ANYTHING other than a black and mild. If manning had a picture taken with him smoking one, would ANYONE have said "Peyton is smoking weed."

 

No they wouldn't have. That was simply a case of Michael Vick being a black guy with cornrows thus he MUST be smoking weed.

 

 

Now if you want to argue that it had been emptied and weed was put in the black and mild, okay, but they made the weed assumption COMPLETELY from this picture...of him holding a black and mild.

 

Flipping off fans? Are you serious?

 

Ron Mexico incident? You mean a civil case? Really.

 

Seriously, are you saying that if Peyton manning flipped off fans and had a picture of him smoking that it would be a logical belief if someone accused him of running a dog fighting opperation.

 

Comeon now.

 

 

At the same time, if this was David Garrad, I don't think it would have been that big of a deal. The fact of the matter is, he had a 130 million dollar contract, and was overhyped to hell and back by ESPN for about 3 years. On top of that he represented a hip-hop culture(lets not pretend people weren't calling him a "thug" before any of this occured. I can provide links if you need me to) to the media. THAT is why Vick was assumed guilty.

 

His checkered past of smoking a cigar and not throwing away water bottles had nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

 

[skullman80]

Vick is a piece of trash. I would say that whether he was white or black. He deserves to go away, and go away for a while. I'm thankful that he will most likely never take another snap in the NFL again.

 

I hope he rots.

 

 

[skullman80]

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Are you honestly going to say that if, say Peyton Manning, had a picture taken with him OBVIOUSLY smoking a black and mild. NO MISTAKING that it was a black and mild. NO WAY to confuse it as ANYTHING other than a black and mild. If manning had a picture taken with him smoking one, would ANYONE have said "Peyton is smoking weed."

 

No they wouldn't have. That was simply a case of Michael Vick being a black guy with cornrows thus he MUST be smoking weed.

 

 

Now if you want to argue that it had been emptied and weed was put in the black and mild, okay, but they made the weed assumption COMPLETELY from this picture...of him holding a black and mild.

 

Flipping off fans? Are you serious?

 

Ron Mexico incident? You mean a civil case? Really.

 

Seriously, are you saying that if Peyton manning flipped off fans and had a picture of him smoking that it would be a logical belief if someone accused him of running a dog fighting opperation.

 

Comeon now.

 

 

At the same time, if this was David Garrad, I don't think it would have been that big of a deal. The fact of the matter is, he had a 130 million dollar contract, and was overhyped to hell and back by ESPN for about 3 years. On top of that he represented a hip-hop culture(lets not pretend people weren't calling him a "thug" before any of this occured. I can provide links if you need me to) to the media. THAT is why Vick was assumed guilty.

 

His checkered past of smoking a cigar and not throwing away water bottles had nothing to do with it.

 

He was also assumed guilty because of the overwhelming amount of evidence going against him. This wasn't some schmuck DA from NC going after him, this was the Feds. When the Feds bring an inditement against you....you know you are as good as done. They don't do that unless they have a very very strong case.

 

He buddies ratted him out too.

 

He's screwed, and I don't feel one ounce of pity on him.

 

White/Black/Hispanic....doesn't matter.

[lomasmoney]

I don't understand how people are able to sit around with a straight face and say that someone should go to jail for multiple years for dogfighting when people have done worse things to HUMAN BEINGS. People have sexually assaulted women and children and gotten out in 6 months, yet Michael Vick is facing years in jail for something , that while terrible, pales in comparison to any of these things. Leonard Little killed a woman drunk driving and he is walking around free as can be. Isn't there some hypocrisy in that ?

[USC Wuz Robbed!]

The thing is, Peyton doesn't have any bad situations going against him, however minor. That's why people might give Peyton the benefit of doubt. The only situation I heard that has gone against Peyton is that sexual harassment case against his school (that I'm not even sure involved him), and that his brother pulled that draft bullshit on San Diego (that isn't Peyton's fault unless he advised Eli on it). Vick would probably have been given the benefit of doubt, even with his current look, if he has Peyton's background as far as being a "role model" in the NFL community.

[Your Paragon of Virtue]

Yeah I was kidding. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence against him though. If all the things said about him are true ban him from the NFL for life and lock him up in jail for a long time. I don't know much about the story though so I make no judgements one way or the other.

[MrRant]

Dude is automatically guilty Ripper because everyone has pretty much said he did it. It is not like one of the witnesses turned on him and the rest had his back. They ALL did.

[The Niggardly King]

I don't understand how people are able to sit around with a straight face and say that someone should go to jail for multiple years for dogfighting when people have done worse things to HUMAN BEINGS. People have sexually assaulted women and children and gotten out in 6 months, yet Michael Vick is facing years in jail for something , that while terrible, pales in comparison to any of these things. Leonard Little killed a woman drunk driving and he is walking around free as can be. Isn't there some hypocrisy in that ?

 

Yeah, but... dogs.

[Your Paragon of Virtue]

It's more like it takes a fucked up kind of person to take pleasure in staging and calling fights between defenseless animals and killing them off once they have no use anymore. It's not worth as much as a human life obviously, but the psyche involved of a person that not only condones but enjoys putting animals through this sort of behaviour is pretty awful.

[MrRant]

Not to mention hearing "rape stand" almost daily.

[UZI Suicide]

I don't understand how people are able to sit around with a straight face and say that someone should go to jail for multiple years for dogfighting when people have done worse things to HUMAN BEINGS. People have sexually assaulted women and children and gotten out in 6 months, yet Michael Vick is facing years in jail for something , that while terrible, pales in comparison to any of these things. Leonard Little killed a woman drunk driving and he is walking around free as can be. Isn't there some hypocrisy in that ?

 

They're all horrible crimes, but we can't go back and change the amount of jail time for every scumbag athlete that has committed one of them.

 

Even if he gets "off" (relatively speaking) with a lighter sentence like those guys did, I think most fans can take solace in the fact that he's most likely taken his last snap as an NFL player.

[Ripper]

He wouldn't be getting much time for the dog fighting. It would be the interstate gambling and such that offers such a stiff sentence.

 

And Rant, when I say Vick was automatically considered guilty, I mean when they raided the place. there were no witnesses, no connection to him outside it was some property he owned. Yet people were saying "Vick is fighting dogs". I understand thinking he is guilty now, with more about the case coming out, but the SECOND the story broke, it was "He was guilty".

 

Like honestly, say if tommorrow a story broke about a rape happening at Allen Iversons house, while he was in the home. Is anyone honestly going to argue it would be covered the same way the Patrick Kerney incident was? And that Iverson wouldn't be assumed guilty.

 

Its not about black or white, its about the look of the black and white. If Jason Williams or Eminem were in the same situation the same negative spin would have been made.

 

If it were Tiki Barber or Kobe, or Ladamian Tomilson, people would give them the benifit of the doubt.

 

 

Even better example, remember how much benefit of the doubt people gave OJ? Reporters were slanting it as he couldn't have had anything to do with it and such. Because of how OJ was percieved by the media. Then the facts of the case came out and it was fuck OJ.

[Guest Smues]

I get your point on the Iverson example, but with that specific case if I hear someone was raped in anybodies house, and that person was IN the house at the time, I'm likely to think them guilty until I hear evidence to the contrary, regardless of what I thought of the person before hand.

[The Man in Blak]

Its not about black or white, its about the look of the black and white. If Jason Williams or Eminem were in the same situation the same negative spin would have been made.

 

If it were Tiki Barber or Kobe, or Ladamian Tomilson, people would give them the benifit of the doubt.

 

I'm loathe to even discuss this with you, considering the lengths that you go to maintain an apologetic stance for Vick, but this is an absolute riot. Kobe Bryant isn't "gangsta" enough? Is that what you really think this is about? People assuming guilt for Michael Vick not because federal investigators were raiding his house, but because he has cornrows?

 

If this is really all about persecution of an anti-establishment image, have you considered the possibility that Vick has earned that reputation through his actions in the past (flipping off fans, getting stopped for "hidden compartments" in water bottles)? Don't you think that Jason Williams (racist, homophobic statements) and Eminem (homophobic statements, songs about making his wife BLEED BITCH BLEEEEEED) make for poor examples of "unfairly persecuted" public figures?

 

[skullman80]

Vick is a waste of human flesh, it's as simple as that. Black/White/Hispanic/Green/Blue...it wouldn't matter.

 

The dude is a waste.

[Kahran Ramsus]

If people have a history of bad behaviour, they aren't going to get the same benefit of the doubt as somebody who doesn't. These guys have earned their reputation and have nobody but themselves to blaim when people no longer trust them.