Chris Benoit Dead - Toxicology results released

[Hawk 34 0]

I just wonder if there was supposed to be a symbolic meaning to hanging himself on a weight machine. As opposed to a more conventional hanging or another form of suicide altogether.

[Quasar 0]

I'm no anatomy expert but wouldn't the 240 pounds of pressure that he used to hang himself had crushed his windpipe and broken his neck thus killing him almost instantly?

[chaosrage 0]

Well, WOL just started, and it's all about the Benoit story. You can listen to it by clicking here.

 

That link takes me to a Mineral Management Service page.

 

edit: nm though, i got it by going to wrestlingobserver.com

[Fartsauce 0]

I'm convinced that Dan from Chicago has never felt a female breast before.

 

EDIT: this guy just won't shut up.

[Downhome 0]

Has there been any word on if they're thinking about removing Chris Benoit from the WON HOF?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Has there been any word on if they're thinking about removing Chris Benoit from the WON HOF?

 

Closest I heard was mentioning that it's impossible to erase him from history. That is a good question for someone to ask if they can get through, though.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

The thing about him wanting to punish himself with the most painful death possible makes me wonder how insane he actually was. People are comforting themselves with the thought that he wasn't in his right mind, but he obviously knew he had done something wrong. He wasn't some delusional religious freak who thought he had done a good deed.

[Human Fly 0]

The manner of Benoit's suicide sounds gruesome if the description Dave talked about is even half accurate.

 

Can you give the Cliff notes version?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The manner of Benoit's suicide sounds gruesome if the description Dave talked about is even half accurate.

 

Can you give the Cliff notes version?

It was slow, painful and likely that Benoit intended it to be that way. He would have been very aware of what was happening.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

I feel sorry for Superstar Billy Graham. He keeps getting disconnected.

[Failed Bridge 0]

I'm convinced that Dan from Chicago has never felt a female breast before.

 

EDIT: this guy just won't shut up.

Like two big bags of sand they were....

[Ultimo Dugas 0]

I'm convinced that Dan from Chicago has never felt a female breast before.

 

EDIT: this guy just won't shut up.

Like two big bags of sand they were....

 

And I'd be nailing her and she'd be like, "Oh, you're nailing me! cool!"

[Mecca 0]

I threw it away a few days ago.

 

Hey if you are just going to throw away your Benoit stuff........send it to me, my physical address is....

[Fartsauce 0]

That was the best post of this entire thread.

[geniusMoment 0]

Today I downloaded and watched Fall Brawl '99, one of the matches was Sid "The Millenium Man" Viscious vs. Chris "The Canadian Crippler" Benoit. Benoit was able to get a pretty decent match out of Sid. Watching it, I was still able to enjoy the match. It was kind of weird that Chris was wearing a black arm band, remembering the recently deceased Brian Hildebrand.

[Hawk 34 0]

I watched Benoit's match with MVP from Judgment Day quite recently and it didn't feel all that much different with the exception of the cross-face struggle sequence.

[Downhome 0]

The following was posted on WO earlier today:

 

--Bodybuilding.com which is a main site for bodybuilders talking about bodybuilding subjects including steroids. One thing I've been told is that not only this site, but the Muscle & Fitness web site and ProSource bodybuilding web sites is a lot of posts from people mad at Benoit--not because of the tragedy, but they are angry because his actions may make it more difficult for them to get steroids and GH. (thanks to Mike Rice)

 

Throughout this week, I've went on YouTube a few times to watch various Benoit promos and matches, and I can't help be feel a little uneasy while watching all of it. While watching his matches, I can still say to myself that it's fantastic work, but I can't block out the fact that, you know, he killed his wife and child and then himself. Everything I he goes for the Crossface I feel disgusted. Then with his promos, I can't help but be freaked out by most of them. While what he's saying doesn't relate to what he did this past weekend, it's still freaky. Hearing him in promos say that his hands are lethal weapons, saying that he doesn't have a stable mind and he's going to hurt someone bad, and so on. I know that there's nothing there, but you can't help but think about everything.

 

And in case you haven't had your fill just yet, the LAW is about to come on:

 

THE LAW REACTS TO THE BENOIT CASE

We welcome Dr. Marc Siegel and Dr. Gerard Varlotta from the NYU Medical Center, Joan Johnson - B.S in Domestic Violence and District Attorney Scott Ballard.

[Mecca 0]

Here's my recap of the last hour and a half of Observer Live (missed the first half-hour due to another show)

 

The show is all about Benoit, and both Bryan and Dave share storied about Benoit not thinking his matches were all that special, with Eddie having that same mentality. Dave shares a story about seeing a tag match with Benoit and Eddie facing Liger and Ohtani, seeing them blow the house down, hearing the following matches not even get 1/4 the heat, and then going out to dinner with them afterwards, praising their match, and each asking him why he felt it was so good.

 

Both state that Benoit never projected an ego, even after winning at 'Mania XX, which felt like vindication to Benoit according to them. A caller says he's been a fan for 22 years and Dave says that you'll never see it again. He then knocks Nancy Grace for the "Horsemen to Raw" comment, which Dave says what ignorant, and due to them having a fact-checker who hadn't watched wrestling in forever. He thinks they did a far better job when Jericho was on, and Dave praises Jericho as being the best, with Brian Lawler being an embarrassment.

 

The caller tells Debra's story when she argued with DeMott, and Dave says that questioning the timing is odd, as the time to do it is now, as they won't care about it later, unfortunately. The caller asks how WWE can erase Benoit from the history books, and Dave says that we're about to find out how they do it, as Benoit is in so many PPVs from 2000-onwards. Dave says that they'll probably just do a normal show on Raw, and they'll never mention Benoit again. Bryan was told that the show will be very light-hearted, without any really violent stuff. Dave says that it's sad that Nancy's contributions to wrestling have been ignored over the past week.

 

The caller asks about what they can do with Benoit's brain, and says that his wife knew that Daniel had a problem just by looking at him. Dave says that WWE didn't know he had Fragile X, nor did his best friends and even Daniel's grandparents didn't know, and he then says that it still isn't 100% confirmed that he has it. Dave says that some of Benoit's friends feel that Daniel did have something wrong, while others are in complete denial.

 

The caller then asks if brain damage shows up on Chris, could it have been hereditary, and Bryan says that it isn't likely at all, since Daniel couldn't inherit the damage caused by chairshots to the back of the head, diving headbutts, and God knows what else. Dave says that we'll never know exactly what happened, but we might just find out what they were doing at or around the deaths occurred, but that we'll never know exactly why. He says that, as a father, he can't imagine how Chris killed his son, since he knew for a fact that Chris loved his son. Dave says that he may never be able to watch another match of Benoit's but says that the whole thing is very confusing and he isn't really sure what he'll do.

 

A new caller asked if he'll be erased from history, and Dave says that while they might do that, but they can't really erase him from history. They'll definitely try, but they can't erase him from history anymore than the NFL can erase O.J. Simpson from history. The caller says that he's still a fan of Benoit the wrestler, but isn't a fan of Benoit the man. He then thanks Bryan for his personal memories of Benoit, and says that they helped him get through this. The caller says that maybe the Bibles were used to show that he knew he was doing wrong, but wanted to use them for salvation, and Dave says that there's probably something to the Bibles. Superstar Billy Graham will be on for hour 2.

 

A new caller starts off hour 2, saying that he's been a fan for 23 years and says this is very surreal. He asks if anyone thought that Nancy was leaving Chris, and if there could've been an intervention. Dave says that they'd had rough times throughout the years, and that people who were friends of theirs locally knew of their problems, but that Dave didn't know of any problems recently.

 

Her leaving him leading to this is one policy theory on this whole thing. The caller says that them erasing him from history is just P.R., and Dave says that it's all P.R. Dave says they've handled things very badly, although he did praise them for the show on Monday. The caller calls the press release damage control, and Dave says that it's poor damage control, as antagonizing the media was a horrible move.

 

The caller asks if they're going to take signs away, and Bryan says that they have already started doing that. Graham is up, and he thanks Dave for having him on. Dave says that of all the people he knows, no one can relate to what Benoit went through more than Billy. He asks him how much, between all the drugs and everything else, do you lose control of your actions. Billy says that he went through a lot of depression due to drugs and horrible health, and that he was at the point of taking his own life, yes, but never got to the point of massacring Valerie.

 

Billy says that it must've been a very deep issue, and relates Dean's story about Benoit mentally checking out of a conversation in the middle of it. He says that all of the deaths piling up around Benoit got to Chris, to the point of crying on the shoulders of Billy and Valerie, and that Chris took the death worse than anyone else who wasn't part of Eddie's family. Billy says that the placement of the Bibles is very significant, and represented great sorry, with Benoit's hope being to take his son to a better place.

 

Dave says that there have only been a couple dozen people in our lifetimes that were the top guy in WWE, and that when the run at the top is over, they come dome dramatically. Austin told him this once about Brock, as he understood why Brock left, and didn't hold it against him. The come down was a killer for Billy, and it was almost unbearable according to Billy. He says that he (Billy) might've been too weak, taking it too seriously, and a defect about his own personality, and says that Nancy was telling Valerie that even though Nancy had fun in wrestling, that she didn't miss it at all, and that she loved being a "boring old housewife". Bryan says that Benoit loved wrestling, but hated everything else about the business.

 

A new caller asks about if either Bryan or Dave have been asked about the wellness policy. Dave says that the testing was developed by Dr. David Black in Nashville, who also developed the NFL's testing. When Dave first learned about steroid testing in the early '90s, when he read everything he could about it. The WWE's key ratio policy is 10 to one, but if you're over 4 to one, you won't be suspended, but you will be watched. He says the situation that's really tough now is guys getting off of steroids who has been on them for a decade, he'll go through major depression and physical problems, which isn't good. That's one reason doctors do prescribe low levels of steroids to help maintain health so guys don't completely lose their minds.

 

Billy's going to talk about it - after his liver transplant, he was told that he wasn't at the level he should have been, as his testosterone level was very low, at about 125, leading to now have to take 150 milligrams of testosterone to have a normal level. He says that if you don't cycle down intelligently, you're going to come down very hard. Bryan asks about the "roid rage" stuff, Billy says that that when they first mentioned that steroids were in the home, that's why it got national coverage, because they think that steroids triggered it. If they didn't find steroids in the home, the story would've been downplayed.

 

Billy says that he feels steroids could've played a part, as Chris having a stockpile despite passing an April test tells him that he was keeping them to keep his testosterone up. He says that low testosterone could literally be a killer, and Dave says that looking at the last 18 months of his life, with him losing Eddie, and Bryan says that Chris told Bryan that he would write letters to Eddie every day in a journal given to him by Nancy. Bryan says that Chris said he wasn't crazy, it just helped him get through it.

 

Billy says it seems like Benoit had some sort of mental illness, but he doesn't know if they saved his brain. Dave says that they might not be able to do, as Chris didn't have the AC on, leading to the tissue degenerating. Chris Nowinski and others are trying to get his brain preserved for medical testing. Billy says that they definitely need to do something, as Benoit was sending text messages while seeing his wife decompose before his eyes. Billy says that Benoit must've been living a personal Hell to do this, and go through such elaborate means to kill himself.

 

A new caller is on, and Dave says that Benoit was the first guest in the history of the show, on October 9, 1999. Brian Hilebrand had just passed away, and Brian was one of Chris' best friends. Dave related a story of Benoit, Jericho, and Guerrero right before Brian's death, and Brian calling him right before his death, he never dwelled on it, and he praised Chris no matter what. Benoit was Brian's favorite subject, even as he was dying from cancer. At about 100 pounds, Brian, Eddie, Dave, Benoit, and Jericho were together - Benoit was crying uncontrollably, and Brian asked what the problem was, and Brian asked him what the problem was, and that their families were going to go to the mountains together soon. Dave talks about the people close to Benoit who have passed away - Hildebrand, Pillman, Black Cat, Victor Marr, Johnny Grunge, and Eddie. Dave says that Victor was Benoit's closest friend in Japan, but he didn't know how close they were until Chris told him. He also said that Grunge's family and Benoit's family were very close socially. The caller says that Benoit had lost a lot of friends at 40, and that's something that most people don't go through until their '80s. Dave never dealt with a death in his '30s and '40s unless they were wrestling-related. Hildebrand, Grunge, and Eddie were Benoit's support system, as were Dean, Chavo, and Jericho.

 

Dave says that he, Billy, and Bryan can see that he was a tortured man the past few years. Billy says that he asked his doctor about the needle marks, but they do in fact prescribe human growth hormone for their parents to inject their children, so it isn't an issue of Chris forcibly injecting his son. Billy says that one lesson here is that you think you know someone, but you really don't know anyone. Billy says that it's very telling that he's teach his son to just say "yes, maam" and "no, maam", and give up his seat shows how much he bonded with him. Billy says that Chris may have just been trying to spare his son the mockery and torture of children later in life.

 

A new caller joins the show, asking if Benoit was close to Davey Boy, and Dave says that he was. Benoit was very respectful toward the older wrestlers, like Davey, who was already a star when Benoit broke in. Dave says that Benoit would always seek Billy out, and Billy tells a story about Benoit having his phone off the hook for three days and apologizing to Valerie, leading to her say that he didn't have to do that. Billy says that he found it amazing how dedicated Benoit was to him and how much he admired him, given that they'd just met at Eddie's family. Billy brings up Mike Awesome hanging himself, and mentions that depression as a key there, and was likely one here. Billy shares a story about Daniel, where Chris told Nancy very sternly to watch Daniel, who was running around backstage in the catering area.

 

He asks if WWE is going to change its policies due to this, and Dave says that lots of suggestions have been made to Vince, and thinks that something, but isn't sure exactly what, will happen. He can see them hiring counselors for the wrestlers. Billy Graham shares a story about eating lunch with Animal, Animal's son, and Greg Valentine where they talked about Vince promoting entertainment, and wondered how the government can try to regulate an entertainment company. Dave thinks that they might rotate the schedule, where guys only work TV.

 

Billy says that since Vince has a full-blown wellness program, he should just start a psychological program, which Dave thinks will happen. Dave says that even the wrestlers he knew, even if they were troubled, and even if there was a psychologist on-call, they would view telling one as a sign of weakness. Bryan thinks that anonymity would be a key to it there.

 

Billy says that mental illness is laughed at in our society, and Dave says that maybe if a wrestler was going to be champion, and he saw the pychiatrist, they might think again about it and put the belt on someone else. Billy says that the very nature of the business is deception, and it would be a nightmare trying to put the belt on a guy while having to do an intense psychological background check on it.

 

A new caller is up with a two part question. Was there ever any backstage controversy about Benoit? Bryan says that there was, two weeks ago on ECW, he gave everyone a brow-beating after the match, and Dave says that his role in ECW was to teach them. Bryan says that if he was in Benoit's shoes, he probably would have done the same thing. The caller asks if they'll drop the Vince death angle, Dave says that they're going to have to. The angle was going to end up that Vince faked it. Billy brings up the Lita abortion as an angle that was a little too close to reality, and hopes that they go away from that, leading to them just trying to be entertaining again.

---------------

That was an incredibly informative and emotion-filled show.

 

I stole that from another board, I figured people would find it interesting.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Several pages back I posted how creepy I thought Benoit's returning vignettes were back in 2003 or 2004 I believe. Well, now check this shit out for yourselves and tell me it doesn't spook the shit out of you knowing what this guy ended up doing. Pay special attention at the :45-:46 second mark. It's creepy.

 

Shit gives me the chills.

 

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KkQwkfJK6I&amp...ted&search=

[cameron chaos 0]

The manner of Benoit's suicide sounds gruesome if the description Dave talked about is even half accurate.

 

Can you give the Cliff notes version?

It was slow, painful and likely that Benoit intended it to be that way. He would have been very aware of what was happening.

He'd have been pulled up and not dropped down, the chances are he would have died from the blood pressure in his brain causing an embollism/aneurysm than a "clean" death by hanging involving the separation of the spinal cord/vertebrae. I'm guessing they found him with his eyes completely blood shot with bruising from the haemmorages. He'd have likely taken at least 2-3 minutes to pass from complete consciousness, another 5 to have his vital functions shut down and cause bowel release.

[Mecca 0]

Several pages back I posted how creepy I thought Benoit's returning vignettes were back in 2003 or 3004 I believe. Well, now check this shit out for yourselves and tell me it doesn't spook the shit out of you knowing what this guy ended up doing. Pay special attention at the 45-46 second mark. It's creepy.

 

Shit gives me the chills.

 

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KkQwkfJK6I&amp...ted&search=

 

I tihnk you're reading a bit to much into that......

[Nate 0]

Several pages back I posted how creepy I thought Benoit's returning vignettes were back in 2003 or 2004 I believe. Well, now check this shit out for yourselves and tell me it doesn't spook the shit out of you knowing what this guy ended up doing. Pay special attention at the :45-:46 second mark. It's creepy.

 

Shit gives me the chills.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KkQwkfJK6I&amp...ted&search=

 

yikes, was he chokin on that kid (or was it his son)

[zappafrank 0]

So apparently there is renewed suspicion that Benoit did in fact use a Crssface type maneuver on Daniel, based on strange marks found on his arm and neck that didn't make sense to officials until they reviewed tapes of Benoit's work.

 

Now, am I the only one who thinks that the Crossface seems a bit contrived to be used here? As a wrestling hold, it's believeable to be applied and believeable to be used as a submission move.

 

But seriously, you can't use it in a real fight or struggle.

 

So this would mean that Benoit would have had to set up Daniel to use it. What did he do, put him face down and then lock it in with his hands around his neck? I've read some places that Benoit could easily have set up the strangulation by play wrestling with Daniel and then locking in a legimate chokehold.

 

People have said they wouldn't be surprised that Benoit did all of this in his tights (myself included, 1/2 jokingly), but c'mon, the Crossface thing just reeks of trying to sensationalize the wrestling aspect of the whole thing.

 

 

[Perfection 0]

Several pages back I posted how creepy I thought Benoit's returning vignettes were back in 2003 or 2004 I believe. Well, now check this shit out for yourselves and tell me it doesn't spook the shit out of you knowing what this guy ended up doing. Pay special attention at the :45-:46 second mark. It's creepy.

 

Shit gives me the chills.

 

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KkQwkfJK6I&amp...ted&search=

 

 

Holy shit you got that right. I literally got chills watching that too, no joke. Also pay attention that at exactly 32 seconds before the image of him screaming there is that young boy screaming (son?). damn. Hell all week, going back and watching some of his matches just to see how I would react to it, it was more along the lines of sadness for his wife and kid, and the fact that he threw all the respect and admiration he had from the fans and his coworkers away by doing what he did. But nothing he did really bothered me, like watching him put the crossface on.

 

But watching that video is a different fucking story. Knowing what we know now, I don't know how anyone could not be freaked out by watching that. wow..

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I remember when I first saw that tron a few years back, I thought it was really cool his kid got a cameo on it. Granted, there's no way that's Daniel.

[cameron chaos 0]

So apparently there is renewed suspicion that Benoit did in fact use a Crssface type maneuver on Daniel, based on strange marks found on his arm and neck that didn't make sense to officials until they reviewed tapes of Benoit's work.

 

Now, am I the only one who thinks that the Crossface seems a bit contrived to be used here? As a wrestling hold, it's believeable to be applied and believeable to be used as a submission move.

 

But seriously, you can't use it in a real fight or struggle.

 

So this would mean that Benoit would have had to set up Daniel to use it. What did he do, put him face down and then lock it in with his hands around his neck? I've read some places that Benoit could easily have set up the strangulation by play wrestling with Daniel and then locking in a legimate chokehold.

 

People have said they wouldn't be surprised that Benoit did all of this in his tights (myself included, 1/2 jokingly), but c'mon, the Crossface thing just reeks of trying to sensationalize the wrestling aspect of the whole thing.

http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=764

 

I have used it before as depicted in the bulldog choke variation when someone has been turtled up to flatten them out on their bellies. If Daniel was indeed found lying face down... that shit is fucked. Even if he resisted it's not hard to defend. Especially when you compare a 7 year old partially retarded kid to a muscular 40 year old adult 3 times his weight in a psychotic state.

[Perfection 0]

Several pages back I posted how creepy I thought Benoit's returning vignettes were back in 2003 or 3004 I believe. Well, now check this shit out for yourselves and tell me it doesn't spook the shit out of you knowing what this guy ended up doing. Pay special attention at the 45-46 second mark. It's creepy.

 

Shit gives me the chills.

 

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KkQwkfJK6I&amp...ted&search=

 

I tihnk you're reading a bit to much into that......

 

He's not saying that foretold anything, just that under the circumstances of what happened, the video is creapy...and he is right.

 

Thanks for posting the observer notes.

[zappafrank 0]

http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=764

 

I have used it before as depicted in the bulldog choke variation when someone has been turtled up to flatten them out on their bellies. If Daniel was indeed found lying face down... that shit is fucked. Even if he resisted it's not hard to defend. Especially when you compare a 7 year old partially retarded kid to a muscular 40 year old adult 3 times his weight in a psychotic state.

 

 

I guess that's my point: why was Daniel belly down to begin with? I haven't heard anything about marks anywhere indicating a possible struggle to get away. Since he was in his bed, maybe he was just asleep and Benoit locked it in like that b/c he wouldn't have to struggle with Daniel?

 

I know it's horrible in any event, and I admittedly am not familiar with how easily wrestling moves might be able to be transformed into legitmate offensive maneuvers, but this aspect of the story just smacks of someone trying to use a wrestling move b/c he/she think it's real (i.e., legimately capable of inflicting more than just momentary discomfort).

[cbacon 0]

The manner of Benoit's suicide sounds gruesome if the description Dave talked about is even half accurate.

 

Can you give the Cliff notes version?

It was slow, painful and likely that Benoit intended it to be that way. He would have been very aware of what was happening.

He'd have been pulled up and not dropped down, the chances are he would have died from the blood pressure in his brain causing an embollism/aneurysm than a "clean" death by hanging involving the separation of the spinal cord/vertebrae. I'm guessing they found him with his eyes completely blood shot with bruising from the haemmorages. He'd have likely taken at least 2-3 minutes to pass from complete consciousness, another 5 to have his vital functions shut down and cause bowel release.

 

This thread is getting beyond depressing >:

[Guest]

I threw it away a few days ago.

 

Hey if you are just going to throw away your Benoit stuff........send it to me, my physical address is....

I only had the DVD. It's at the dump by now.

 

I'm not a big memorabilia collector. I only collect sports jerseys.