Chris Benoit Dead - Toxicology results released

[justcoz 0]

Personally, I don't necessarily trust Keller and Meltzer's views for one simple reason. Prior to the Benoit tragedy they achieved their greatest notoriety during the Vince McMahon steroid trial. Meltzer was all over tv then too. Seeing this story escalate, with Astin turning into another Zahorian deal, the business and Vince McMahon going before congress, etc. is $$$$ to them. They have no love lost for Vince because he consistently discredits their opinions and shuts them off to access to talent. I'm not saying my thoughts are necessarily true but I just find it ironic.

 

I'm not pro WWE. I'm personally more bothered by the idea of the company pushing Batista and Lashley, hell even putting Snitsky on tv, than Matt Hardy or Ken Kennedy's opinions. I expected to see smaller bodies and less of a focus on size after Eddie died. It didn't happen and I do hold them accountable for that. They need to improve upon the loopholes of the Wellness Program, add psychiatric counseling to it, cycle the tours and, most importantly, Vince needs to get over his fascination of big guys, ideally he needs to just step down completely.

 

I just have a problem with people not realizing it's not the rock n roll locker room atmosphere that it was in the 80's or the 90's boom period. Yeah, you can point to Eddie, Chris and Rey as modern era examples but they are also from the 90's core of talent that did ghb, ecstacy, drank alcohol, popped pills and roided up hoping to main event Wrestlemania someday. I really do wanna think that the younger guys in the locker room are more responsible than that and I read things that indicate that they are playing Madden after the shows rather than painting the town Horsemen style.

[Mecca 0]

When discussing something, charisma is more important than actually being intelligent and well-informed. You heard it here first folks.

 

You think Wade Keller is intelligent? That's all I needed to know........and I like how you act as though Kennedy isn't.

[Mecca 0]

Personally, I don't necessarily trust Keller and Meltzer's views for one simple reason. Prior to the Benoit tragedy they achieved their greatest notoriety during the Vince McMahon steroid trial. Meltzer was all over tv then too. Seeing this story escalate, with Astin turning into another Zahorian deal, the business and Vince McMahon going before congress, etc. is $$$$ to them. They have no love lost for Vince because he consistently discredits their opinions and shuts them off to access to talent. I'm not saying my thoughts are necessarily true but I just find it ironic.

 

I'm not pro WWE. I'm personally more bothered by the idea of the company pushing Batista and Lashley, hell even putting Snitsky on tv, than Matt Hardy or Ken Kennedy's opinions. I expected to see smaller bodies and less of a focus on size after Eddie died. It didn't happen and I do hold them accountable for that. They need to improve upon the loopholes of the Wellness Program, add psychiatric counseling to it, cycle the tours and, most importantly, Vince needs to get over his fascination of big guys, ideally he needs to just step down completely.

 

I just have a problem with people not realizing it's not the rock n roll locker room atmosphere that it was in the 80's or the 90's boom period. Yeah, you can point to Eddie, Chris and Rey as modern era examples but they are also from the 90's core of talent that did ghb, ecstacy, drank alcohol, popped pills and roided up hoping to main event Wrestlemania someday. I really do wanna think that the younger guys in the locker room are more responsible than that and I read things that indicate that they are playing Madden after the shows rather than painting the town Horsemen style.

 

Keller and Meltzer are very anti WWE anyhow just read anything they put out about the product.......

 

You'll never convince some people that Meltzer isn't the end all be all beacon of wrestling knowledge either....you know he's not always right either.

 

There are a ton of personal agenda's involved in this not just the couple of current WWE guys who spoke on their sites.

[dubq 0]

No, but I'd be apt to believe someone who's not on the payroll than ones that are.

 

I'm not apt to believe people who have obvious axes to grind...........The truth is likely in the middle but for someone who hasn't set foot in a locker room or ring in a decade to try to shed light on what's happening right now to me is really stupid. Just like Terri Runnells all these people that haven't been relevant in 10 years think they have something to add now.

 

C'mon Mecca. Haven't been relevant? Relevant to who? Just because these wrestlers haven't been in the spotlight recently, doesn't mean they're not relevant. Guys like Mero, Blackman, et al have been in the business a lot longer than Matt Hardy and Ken Kennedy. (and don't give me some shit about how it's changed sooo much either)

 

And of course they have something to add now! Are you a total nitwit? When were they supposed to add it? When the industry was getting NO mainstream press at all? Yeah, then they're surely be offered interviews on primetime, right?

 

Holy fuck some people here really have no idea do they?

 

Good "prop myself up as smarter than you" type of post.........I give it about a 9.

 

In all reality no one really knows, you don't know, I don't know.....There's really no need to start flipping out on Kennedy or Hardy or myself for saying something opposite of you. You are acting like Mero and the like know exactly what they are talking about when in reality you don't know if that's true or not either.....

 

So like I said good sensational post there but not much to it.........you've been watching to much cable news.

 

Great way to skirt the issue with a non-response, btw. I give it a 2.5.

[Mecca 0]

When discussing something, charisma is more important than actually being intelligent and well-informed.

It is if you want to get over with the easily impressionable.

 

And who do you think is watching those shows......I was talking in a generality of coming off well to the public watching.

[Mecca 0]

No, but I'd be apt to believe someone who's not on the payroll than ones that are.

 

I'm not apt to believe people who have obvious axes to grind...........The truth is likely in the middle but for someone who hasn't set foot in a locker room or ring in a decade to try to shed light on what's happening right now to me is really stupid. Just like Terri Runnells all these people that haven't been relevant in 10 years think they have something to add now.

 

C'mon Mecca. Haven't been relevant? Relevant to who? Just because these wrestlers haven't been in the spotlight recently, doesn't mean they're not relevant. Guys like Mero, Blackman, et al have been in the business a lot longer than Matt Hardy and Ken Kennedy. (and don't give me some shit about how it's changed sooo much either)

 

And of course they have something to add now! Are you a total nitwit? When were they supposed to add it? When the industry was getting NO mainstream press at all? Yeah, then they're surely be offered interviews on primetime, right?

 

Holy fuck some people here really have no idea do they?

 

Good "prop myself up as smarter than you" type of post.........I give it about a 9.

 

In all reality no one really knows, you don't know, I don't know.....There's really no need to start flipping out on Kennedy or Hardy or myself for saying something opposite of you. You are acting like Mero and the like know exactly what they are talking about when in reality you don't know if that's true or not either.....

 

So like I said good sensational post there but not much to it.........you've been watching to much cable news.

 

Great way to skirt the issue with a non-response, btw. I give it a 2.5.

 

I'm sure you follow around the WWE and get into the locker room so you know exactly what is going on also........Amuses me for a poster on a board to be like "I know you don't" to something that no one really knows about other than the guys who are there.

[dubq 0]

No, but I'd be apt to believe someone who's not on the payroll than ones that are.

 

I'm not apt to believe people who have obvious axes to grind...........The truth is likely in the middle but for someone who hasn't set foot in a locker room or ring in a decade to try to shed light on what's happening right now to me is really stupid. Just like Terri Runnells all these people that haven't been relevant in 10 years think they have something to add now.

 

C'mon Mecca. Haven't been relevant? Relevant to who? Just because these wrestlers haven't been in the spotlight recently, doesn't mean they're not relevant. Guys like Mero, Blackman, et al have been in the business a lot longer than Matt Hardy and Ken Kennedy. (and don't give me some shit about how it's changed sooo much either)

 

And of course they have something to add now! Are you a total nitwit? When were they supposed to add it? When the industry was getting NO mainstream press at all? Yeah, then they're surely be offered interviews on primetime, right?

 

Holy fuck some people here really have no idea do they?

 

Good "prop myself up as smarter than you" type of post.........I give it about a 9.

 

In all reality no one really knows, you don't know, I don't know.....There's really no need to start flipping out on Kennedy or Hardy or myself for saying something opposite of you. You are acting like Mero and the like know exactly what they are talking about when in reality you don't know if that's true or not either.....

 

So like I said good sensational post there but not much to it.........you've been watching to much cable news.

 

Great way to skirt the issue with a non-response, btw. I give it a 2.5.

 

I'm sure you follow around the WWE and get into the locker room so you know exactly what is going on also........Amuses me for a poster on a board to be like "I know you don't" to something that no one really knows about other than the guys who are there.

 

Look - I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you on this, buddy. Listen to yourself and re-read what I posted the first time. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong or that the anti-wwe is right and the pro-wwe is wrong.. what I'm saying is, is that it's stupid for anyone (you included) to call these people like Mero, etc. not relevant to wrestling just because they haven't been on national tv in a while.. and it's stupid to blast them for coming out now when there's an opportunity.. because they couldn't come out before where there was no interest in covering what wrestlers have to say on any given subject. Are you getting it yet? Or to you want to come back with some more replies that have nothing to do with what I'm saying and that I won't bother responding to.....

 

And while I'm on this, I haven't heard Mero BLAME this on the WWE once. It's usually the show that spins it to sound that way. He's saying that Vince - because he owns the biggest show in town - has an opportunity to stand up and change the business for the betterment of the talent. I don't see him harping on the WWE. Or their testing. He even says that he can't really comment on the wellness policy. His comments are about his friends dying and that something needs to change in this business. But yet he's a goof according to Kennedy....

[Mecca 0]

I was fine with Mero until I watched him cut a fucking promo on Blackman on Nancy Grace. I half expected him to say he'd see him in the ring later.

 

What Mero is doing may have good intentions but it seems like the major focus is to bring all the attention to him and the help to the industry would be secondary.

[World's Worst Man 0]

When discussing something, charisma is more important than actually being intelligent and well-informed.

It is if you want to get over with the easily impressionable.

 

Yea, appealing to the lowest common denominator. The uninformed masses would be better served to hear from someone who might not be a great talker, but knows what the fuck they're talking about (Meltzer). But then you run into the problem of those people not hearing what they don't want to hear. That the wrestling business they're such huge marks for is seriously flawed and in need of an overhaul. Or that the wrestlers they're infatuated with are greatly flawed, licentious human beings. These people are recalcitrant to the truth, and instead, give credence to the word of a guy solely because he can cut a quality wrestling promo! It truly is a perfect example of people elevating the celebrities they see on TV on a pedestal, where their word is gold and where they can do no wrong. It's so hilariously lacking in any sort of reason or wisdom.

[The Niggardly King 0]

When discussing something, charisma is more important than actually being intelligent and well-informed.

It is if you want to get over with the easily impressionable.

 

Yea, appealing to the lowest common denominator. The uninformed masses would be better served to hear from someone who might not be a great talker, but knows what the fuck they're talking about (Meltzer). But then you run into the problem of those people not hearing what they don't want to hear. That the wrestling business they're such huge marks for is seriously flawed and in need of an overhaul. Or that the wrestlers they're infatuated with are greatly flawed, licentious human beings. These people are recalcitrant to the truth, and instead, give credence to the word of a guy solely because he can cut a quality wrestling promo! It truly is a perfect example of people elevating the celebrities they see on TV on a pedestal, where their word is gold and where they can do no wrong. It's so hilariously lacking in any sort of reason or wisdom.

 

No need to go all Matt Striker on us...

[World's Worst Man 0]

It's the greatest gimmick since the Nintendo Wii.

[justcoz 0]

When discussing something, charisma is more important than actually being intelligent and well-informed.

It is if you want to get over with the easily impressionable.

 

Yea, appealing to the lowest common denominator. The uninformed masses would be better served to hear from someone who might not be a great talker, but knows what the fuck they're talking about (Meltzer). But then you run into the problem of those people not hearing what they don't want to hear. That the wrestling business they're such huge marks for is seriously flawed and in need of an overhaul. Or that the wrestlers they're infatuated with are greatly flawed, licentious human beings. These people are recalcitrant to the truth, and instead, give credence to the word of a guy solely because he can cut a quality wrestling promo! It truly is a perfect example of people elevating the celebrities they see on TV on a pedestal, where their word is gold and where they can do no wrong. It's so hilariously lacking in any sort of reason or wisdom.

 

Your vocabulary is excellent but I really think you're reading too much into everything. I don't think anyone here is such a mark for the business or the performers that we are unable to comprehend the fact that they are flawed. The industry isn't perfect and the personalities do have issues like drug dependency. It's just not anywhere near what it used to be. The boys have changed and you're dealing with a publicly traded corporation now.

 

The Wellness Policy was the right thing to do and it sucks that it took Eddie dying to make it happen. It also sucks that prior to Benoit dying they also seemingly made it less strict. Guys that had lost size, were suddenly big again. Remember Vince making fun of Randy Orton when he was small? Chris Masters too. Remember how different Snitsky looked when they started testing - then suddenly he was a monster again.

 

Let's remember that Chris Benoit didn't drop dead of a heart attack here. He didn't overdose. HE LOST HIS F'N MIND and until toxicology comes back people really can't knock the Wellness Program - although I do think he's going to have a ton of shit in his system and it was ok'd in the testing because he had a prescription. That's an obvious problem with the testing that needs corrected but also has its complexities. Vince getting a boner for big guys is the company's biggest problem right now. It's the thing that has to be changed so guys don't feel the need to roid up or do growth hormone for size. Then again I just heard that Johnny Grunge was on steroids so I have no freaking idea who the hell juices anymore! Forming a union and getting health care is something the boys have to stand up for and they don't. They have never been able to.

 

My problem with Meltzer and Alvarez on talk shows is, with all of their knowledge, with all of their supposed insider information, they have absolutely nothing new to bring to the table in the discussion. It doesn't have anything to do with their lack of charisma. You would just think that guys that write about this stuff for a living would have more interesting things to say or points to make to educate the Nancy Grace's of the world. Meltzer knows in particular so much about the Benoit timeline leading into the murder/suicide, his mental state in weeks prior, how hard the deaths of Chris' friends hit him, yet he just goes on there and answers steroid questions. I don't know. I just think Meltzer and Keller are still wrapped up in the fact that Vince walked on steroid charges in the 90's and are salivating at the possibility of things going to the next level.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Meltzer would rather keep the Benoit related stories to the observer.

[justcoz 0]

Meltzer would rather keep the Benoit related stories to the observer.

 

I seriously think so. Having them say he's from Wrestling Observer means people will find the website, read the half page long preview of the upcoming Observer and subscribe.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Your vocabulary is excellent

 

Why thank you.

 

I was only really referring to one person specifically in my post. I'm sure there are others like that however, just based upon the comments on Kennedy's blog.

 

My problem with Meltzer and Alvarez on talk shows is, with all of their knowledge, with all of their supposed insider information, they have absolutely nothing new to bring to the table in the discussion. It doesn't have anything to do with their lack of charisma. You would just think that guys that write about this stuff for a living would have more interesting things to say or points to make to educate the Nancy Grace's of the world. Meltzer knows in particular so much about the Benoit timeline leading into the murder/suicide, his mental state in weeks prior, how hard the deaths of Chris' friends hit him, yet he just goes on there and answers steroid questions. I don't know. I just think Meltzer and Keller are still wrapped up in the fact that Vince walked on steroid charges in the 90's and are salivating at the possibility of things going to the next level.

 

You should check out the latest issues of the WON, as it contains some interesting information. That avenue is the only way the public will get the whole story, because it's not really possible for Meltzer to get all of the relevant information out there when he's on a bunch of talk shows that are only interested in information that further sensationalizes the story. These media types are quite similar to the uninformed, naive mark fans, in that they don't want the whole story. It's just their motivation that differs. In the media's case, they want a hot story that will produce ratings for their shows, and they won't let the facts get in the way of that goal. In the marks' case, they don't want to believe that their heroes are flawed, or that their favourite wrestling promotion deserves some of the blame, and they too won't let the facts get in the way of that. And no, I'm not criticising anyone in particular for thinking this way, other than those who have made it painfully obvious that they do.

 

The wellness policy has some serious problems, regardless of Benoit's toxicology results. The higher threshold for positives, the "relative" system based on initial results, the lack of effective punishment, and the lack of supervision while samples are collected are all issues that need to be corrected. Not to mention the fact that WWE continues to push talentless muscle heads, showing absolutely no signs of understanding the fundamental issue. These are some of the things that need to be made abundantly clear, yet are so conveniently ignored by some, or never heard by others.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Sweet fuck, Wade Keller owned the SHIT out of Kennedy with that response.

 

Not a big Keller fan but damn, he brought the heat on that one. Kennedy came off like a total moron.

[Nate 0]

ok its been a couple weeks since the tradgey and i've learned alot of things out of this:

 

-maybe its me but does it seem Metzler appearing on the various shows the last couple weeks a way to boost subscriptions to the newsletter

 

-people like Mero, Debra, Blackman, Lanny Poffo, those people are just grasping at the last 5 seconds of fame that they have, i think the guys working within WWE would know what really goes on as opposed to the past stars

 

-what the media and the stars of the past seem to think that WWE is still stuck in the past and they think there is no drug policy in place, granted this one has more then its share of loopholes, but there is one

 

-i got the feeling with Holly and Rey's name popping up under Dr Astin's files that WWE will fire one or both of them regardless of their standing in the promotion to be an example to the media that they are serious about changing the policy

 

-i've gained an apperciation of my life, sure i may not have the best paying job, but at least i have one and make enough money to help pay the bills

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Well, I thought Mysterio was replaced in the title match at GAB because he wasn't ready yet (I thought it was a cool idea for him to get a title shot in his return match in his hometown), but then I found out his name was in the steroid scandal, I guess he's really fucked now.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

On Dan Abrams Live on MSNBC last night, Marc Mero responded to Ken Kennedy and Gregory Helms' criticism of his comments on the Benoit case, here's the clip from that show:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKN7Hr0cX50

[tekcop 0]

Didn't Holly & Rey both have surgery recently? Is there no way they could have gotten legal prescription drugs for that?

[Celtic Jobber 0]

Well, I thought Mysterio was replaced in the title match at GAB because he wasn't ready yet (I thought it was a cool idea for him to get a title shot in his return match in his hometown), but then I found out his name was in the steroid scandal, I guess he's really fucked now.

 

Dr. Astin's attorney talked about Mysterio last night on FoxNews with Greta Van Susteren, apparently Rey's prescriptions were for pain medications and/or Xanax, and he went to see Astin every 3 months.

 

Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGdvL6fRin4

[Mecca 0]

Mysterio is getting the same hype style vids during Smackdown that H is getting during Raw and he's featured in the current magazine while having a 3 disc DVD coming out shortly.

 

The WWE isn't attempting to hide Mysterio or making it look like he will get fired.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

That's good to know. I'm looking forward to a Mysterio / Edge feud.

[Ripper 0]

I still think it is a bit odd.

 

Here, it seems well informed means having a "source" tell you something that you have never seen before and saying that it is true.

 

Actually working for the company doesn't mean you know a thing about what is going on in the company. Because you actually see stuff and didn't have a source tell you what they saw and heard.

 

The reason I agree with Kennedy here, is because you are seeing guys just trying to get on shows and extend their 15 minutes. Mero's list o death has been growing for his last few appearances. Yet he is credible now?

 

No, someone that hasn't been in the locker room for 10 years aren't relevant to speak about the going ons now. I am more inclined to listen to the guys that have actually been their recently. Instead you get guys that last were in the WWE in 1992 talking about how the locker room now is nothing but roid popping, coke snorting party animals.

 

Keller says the WWE could send guys to do interviews. Really. They should go do interviews on shows where the "reporters" do nothing but shout over, interrupt and cut off guys and only serve the purpose to make them look bad. Yeah that makes sense.

 

Its simple. There have been 30 "wrestlers" and ex wrestlers coming out talking about how Vince should be held responsible, how this is about steroids and how they have no question that steroids were involved and how someone needs to step in and stop Vince. Thats fine and dandy because that is what alot of people want to hear and believe.

 

But Kennedy and Hardy defend the company they actually work for, and are far more in the know of what is going on backstage than ANY person that you have seen on the other side of the spectrum in this argument and they are just spewing the company line, they are lying, they haven't done the "research" that others have done(that is fucking laughable by the way) and blah blah blah.

 

The naysayers have just as many reasons to be negative as the defenders have to be positive. Being negative gets you TV time and exposure. But of course that couldn't be motivation.

 

I think it is actually naive to believe that the company is the same roid popping, drug crazy locker room it was 20+ years ago. But believe what you want. All I am saying is that it is hypocritical to call one side liers because they work for the WWE but ignore that the other side is full of guys that got fired by the same company.

[4hartthreat 0]

Is Mysterio really getting another dvd soon?

[Downhome 0]

On Dan Abrams Live on MSNBC last night, Marc Mero responded to Ken Kennedy and Gregory Helms' criticism of his comments on the Benoit case, here's the clip from that show:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKN7Hr0cX50

 

 

And that right there, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am so against that Ken Kennedy posting, as well as the same sort of stuff from guys like Helms, Hardy, and so on. This is a very thin line WWE is walking right now, and it would be best not to produce extra ammunition that could be used against them.

 

I still don't understand how anyone can totally take up for guys on the WWE payroll spouting off their opinions about all of this on their BLOGS AND WEBSITES, and totally discredit any former worker who is taking this opportunity to speak out. Marc Mero has been working since what, 1990? Is it really hard to believe his list? I'd be willing to bet that you could take any number of workers that have been working for as long as Mero and they'd have a list something like that as well. At least he's putting the thought in to actually make the list, and present it to everyone. But, you know, whatever the fuck, it's fine. I just don't get it is all.

 

And let's say that, just in theory, that every single former WWE worker is ONLY speaking out because they're bitter, or they want a few more minutes of exposure, or maybe they even want to make a few quick bucks off of this horrible tragedy.

 

You know what I think of that if true (and I don't believe that for a second)?

 

I simply don't give a shit. No matter the reason behind them coming out, and no matter how scummy some of those reasons could be, I simply don't care. At least it's bringing all of the problems to the mainstream. It's only then, when the media grabs hold of it and sticks with it, that any changes will ever take place. I think everyone can agree that changes do indeed need to take place, and WWE sure isn't going to do anything without some sort of forced push, and the media and the government isn't going to do anything on their own. So if it takes a bunch of greedy, exposure hungry ex-WWE workers to come out like this in order to clean up the wrestling industry and to save some lives, then fine, so be it. As long as they're not spouting off flat out lies, and that would be very easy to check into, then let them go at it.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

WWE was doing a good thing by keeping their mouths shut regarding this entire case but Kennedy and Hardy are screwing that up by going public with their opinions. Nobody should be saying anything at this point until all the information regarding Benoit and the Astin case is in. This is a near-billion dollar company that doesn't need to give the media or their detractors any ammunition.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that Matt Hardy is defending the WWE and how clean this generation of wrestlers is now when his brother is one of the most notorious drug uses in the industry? Why not discuss how he was fired several years ago for being so screwed up that WWE wanted nothing to do with him?

[dubq 0]

First, both Blackman and Mero were active wrestlers upto the early/mid-2000's. That's not exactly "over 10 years."

 

Second, I'm really finding it hard to believe that just because the last time that these guys wrestled - that because it wasn't with the WWE, that their opinions are irrelevant. That's just ridiculous. It's like saying that former NHL players can't comment on the sport as a whole just because they don't play with the NHL anymore.

 

Third, I also cannot believe that people can't understand the simple point that Mero isn't just talking about WWE. He's talking about all of wrestling. The reason he keeps bringing up Vince McMahon, again, is because Vince owns the "biggest show" in town and he has the platform to make a change for the betterment of all wrestlers regardless of where they work. Why is this such a hard concept to understand - is anyone actually listening to the dialogue when they watch all of these YouTube clips? Not once does Mero blame WWE - he constantly says there is a problem in "professional wrestling." Watch the end of that video that Celtic Jobber posted with Mero. It's the show hosts that normally spin this into an attack on WWE.

 

But yet he's "pushing his own agenda" and "last 15 minutes of fame" - bullshit. These guys are asked to be on the show. Abrams even says they're constantly calling WWE guys, but to no avail. I really doubt Mero and Blackman are loitering the studios of these shows just itching to get on TV again. If we're talking about agendas, how about we look at guys like Demott, Brian Lawler, Ted DiBiase?

[bob_barron 0]

Regarding the death list- Meltzer said in the July 5th Observer that the death list was in the 100s, and that he had stopped keeping track because it was so depressing. So maybe that explains why it kept going up.