Indy wrestlers need to tone it down a notch

[Bix 0]

Bryan Danielson beat Chris Hero via ref stoppage. Solid match with a lot of heat. Dragon grabbed both of Hero's hands and stomped him repeatedly in the face until the ref stopped it. Hero walked around like he had a concussion after the match.

Y'know for all of his faults, I didn't expect Gabe Sapolsky to book an angle around his critics, and I really should have.

[Jingus 0]

It's like Vince's childish "You don't like it? Well FUCK YOU, it's never gonna end!" type booking. I don't understand why anyone would think that doing a concussion angle is a good idea right now, especially when it's involving one guy who really did have a concussion and came back too fast.

[Bix 0]

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/h...t.asp?aID=21704

 

--Bryan Danielson, Rocky Romero and Nigel McGuiness all reportedly suffered concussions on last night's ROH show. McGuiness also had a broken nose and needed 14 stitches

Romero (squashing someone) and Danielson were back tonight. R-O-H! R-O-H!

 

Fuck those guys.

[The Truthiness 0]

Here we go with the Cocussion shit again.

[Jacques 0]

I would love to see Bret Hart's reaction after watching an ROH show.

[Bix 0]

Here we go with the Cocussion shit again.

"Waaaah, he's saying bad things about ROH!"

[SamoaRowe 0]

Here we go with the Cocussion shit again.

"Waaaah, he's saying bad things about ROH!"

 

Outstanding comeback. And thank you for pointing out how ROH is the only wrestling company in the world that ever had wrestlers working hurt.

[The Truthiness 0]

Don't really care what bad things you say about ROH, I say bad things about ROH. Just find it amusing that every time you hear the word concussion, you come running.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Exactly. Let's not turn this into a debate over whether or not people criticize ROH or not.

[Bix 0]

So it's not worth pointing out that in spite of popular opinion, ROH, like WWE, is run by terrible people who exploit idiotic, brain-damaged wrestlers?

[JHawk 0]

In fairness, WWE wrestlers at least have guaranteed downsides if they take time off. I'm not sure the ROH contract has one, and even if it does some of those guys aren't on contract and don't get paid if they take time off.

 

I agree they shouldn't have worked yesterday, but I can see why the workers would have worked anyway.

[The Truthiness 0]

So it's not worth pointing out that in spite of popular opinion, ROH, like WWE, is run by terrible people who exploit idiotic, brain-damaged wrestlers?

Bryan Danielson is the franchise of ROH, if he didn't want to wrestle with a concussion, he didn't have too. Nigel had a concussion, and guess what? He didn't wrestle. It's not exploitation, if a guy willingly goes out there and performs, knowing that he scrambled his brains the night before. I know it's considered "cliche' around these parts, but I'm really part of the "Nobody is holding a gun to these guys head, and making them perform" crowd. I might be in the minority, so be it.

 

So to answer your question. No, it's not worth pointing it out every chance you get, we already know.

 

 

 

[Bix 0]

So it's not worth pointing out that in spite of popular opinion, ROH, like WWE, is run by terrible people who exploit idiotic, brain-damaged wrestlers?

Bryan Danielson is the franchise of ROH, if he didn't want to wrestle with a concussion, he didn't have too. Nigel had a concussion, and guess what? He didn't wrestle. It's not exploitation, if a guy willingly goes out there and performs, knowing that he scrambled his brains the night before. I know it's considered "cliche' around these parts, but I'm really part of the "Nobody is holding a gun to these guys head, and making them perform" crowd. I might be in the minority, so be it.

 

So to answer your question. No, it's not worth pointing it out every chance you get, we already know.

It's not a matter of Danielson wanting to wrestle, it's a matter of Sapolsky & Silkin letting him wrestle.

[Bix 0]

He had a fresh head injury, why should he be making important decisions?

[Timmy8271 0]

So it's not worth pointing out that in spite of popular opinion, ROH, like WWE, is run by terrible people who exploit idiotic, brain-damaged wrestlers?

 

What promotion in the world isn't run by these type of people?

 

Does Danielson have a wife?

[theintensifier 0]

King Leonidas: Dilios, I trust that "scratch" hasn't made you useless.

Dilios: Hardly, my lord, it's just an eye. The gods saw fit to grace me with a spare.

YEAH-UH~!

 

1.

2. If Mark Briscoe isn't on steroids, then I'm not breathing air.

QFT

 

Bottom line is ROH fanboys will never admit to their promotion doing anything wrong. It wouldn't matter if Briscoe died in the ring at the next show as a result of his last concussion, they still wouldn't hold ROH even slightly responsible. Whereas if it had been WWE everyone would be claiming that they had a responsibility to investigate possible brain damage. It's just the way it is.

QFT

 

The scary thing about Mark Briscoe's injury is that they made an angle out of his concussion by having Generico and Steen do all their crazy headdrop suplexes on him, just weeks after the botched SSP.

Like the 'E does.

 

It was time to Man Up.

Wow. An impressive use of brain power.

 

Time to man up. Then it's time to not remember maning up. Then it's time to not remember much of anything.

YEAH-UH~! II

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Was there any point to your post?

[theintensifier 0]

I'm sorry, I'm not answering questions at this time.

[GCWPatrick 0]

So it's not worth pointing out that in spite of popular opinion, ROH, like WWE, is run by terrible people who exploit idiotic, brain-damaged wrestlers?

Bryan Danielson is the franchise of ROH, if he didn't want to wrestle with a concussion, he didn't have too. Nigel had a concussion, and guess what? He didn't wrestle.

 

It's also worth noting that some of the fans have been turning on Nigel for the horrible crime of being injured, chanting for him to drop the title.

[The Truthiness 0]

OK Dave,

Gabe gave me the all clear, so I am staying up at 2:30 in the morning, when I have to be up at 8am tomorrow to pack and leave for my next NOAH tour, to write this because I feel so vehemently mistreated and unjustly referenced by this ignorant article. I have copied the article into this email and will refer specifically to the points in question:

 

I attended both of the NYC ROH shows this past weekend, and was a little disgusted with the events surrounding Nigel McGuinness's injury. I don't know if you're interested, but I wrote this note to whomever may take notice. I already posted it at the ROH forum, but it seems to be going over people's heads there. If you print it, please withhold my name. Thanks.

 

Yesterday, for the second time in as many months, I attended a Ring of Honor show at the Manhattan Center in which ROH Champion Nigel McGuinness could not defend his title in a previously scheduled match. Before I go any further, I wish to make one thing perfectly clear: I wholeheartedly applaud the decision to pull Nigel McGuinness from the 12/30 show after his concussion suffered on 12/29 (at a show which I also attended)

 

--You open by applauding the decision that I and ROH made to protect me from further physical harm by pulling me from the show, and then close by stating you won't buy any more tickets for ROH events where you know you may not see the scheduled main event. How is this applauding the decision?

 

However, the circumstances surrounding the injury have left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

 

McGuinness’s title match against Austin Aries on 12/29 was outstanding. However, it would have been just as outstanding had McGuinness not taken two headfirst bumps onto the steel guardrail. The pops would have been just as loud for the false finishes if McGuinness hadn’t slammed his head against steel off an Aries suicide dive only a few minutes into the match.

 

--I could write a book on what you don't understand or assume about wrestling and this match in particular. First, my head slamming into the guard rail after Aries' dive was not a planned spot in any way. I was further from the guard rail than I needed to be and thus couldn't control my body when I fell forward. It was an accident that I couldn't have avoided and never would have imagined would happen before the match, whether you believe it or not. When you wrestle more than a handful of matches yourself you may realise that. Second I did not take another "head first bump onto the guardrail." The brainbuster you are referring to actually made my shoulders contact the guardrail and in a non injurious manner. And even if it had, that would have been Aries' decision as much as mine. But that didn't happen as he is a world class professional (not just trained by one,) and took care of me as a fellow professional wrestler should.

 

As Nigel came up bloody and seemingly loopy, I immediately suspected that he had suffered yet another concussion. Needless to say, I winced when he took a brainbuster on the guardrail later in the match.

 

This should have come as no surprise to me, though. McGuinness willingly concussed himself last year during a match with Bryan Danielson, taking gruesome, unprotected headshots into the ringpost. I supposed I just hoped that, in a post-Chris Benoit world, a less cavalier attitude would be taken about these things.

 

--I object to this statement for two reasons. First, I did not willingly concuss myself last year in a match with Bryan Danielson. The headshots to which you are referring, while gruesome indeed, caused no concussion. However I did get a concussion a few weeks later in a match against Bryan from a simple back bump after giving a Tower of London which you seem not to object to. One of the most frustrating things is when you really get knocked out but because the bump wasn't visual enough fans don't care or believe you. And second, as far as having a less cavalier attitude about these things I can put my hand on my heart and actually say I'm one of the most concerned people in the locker room today. In fact I was the first person to buy Chris Nowinski's book on concussions and read it cover to cover and it was this reading which caused me to accept the ROH office's support in taking the night off on the 30th.

 

As alluded to earlier, this concussion comes on the heels of Nigel missing his match at Glory By Honor, Night Two. At the time, he was nursing a torn bicep, most likely injured performing the same lariat that both broke Jimmy Rave’s jaw and concussed Johnny Fairplay earlier this year. As a trained professional wrestler myself (one who was trained by a talent who has worked for Ring of Honor), I find it offensive that the man has done so much damage to his own body and to the bodies of others.

 

--You are clearly not smart to the business if you believe this. The only serious damage I have done to anyone's body is my own, and you can ask anyone I've wrestled to qualify that statement, including the people above. And if you do want to talk about people hurting others in the ring, there are certainly others higher on the list than I.

 

What I also found offensive, though, were the promos an injured McGuinness came out and cut at both Glory By Honor and Final Battle. Both times, he was heckled by fans who, for whatever reason, weren’t happy to see him, and both times, McGuinness made some very odd statements. At Glory By Honor, in reaction to fans who he felt did not appreciate his sacrifices, Nigel told the crowd that, to paraphrase, maybe he should just quit, and get a job where he can still walk when he’s fifty years old.

 

--Is this part of the promo so different to the anti hardcore promos Mick Foley cut for which he was so widely and correctly revered?

 

What is my reaction, as a fan, supposed to be to that? Should I cheer? Should I boo? Should I feel guilty? All I could really think was that he’s right; he should retire right now if his style of wrestling leaves him in danger of ending up like "Dynamite Kid" Tom Billington. At Final Battle, he told the crowd he was keeping the title to spite the fans who booed him, and in appreciation of the ones who supported him- the ones, he told us, who love wrestling and respect the wrestlers. Silly me; I thought I respected the wrestlers because I care about their health. Apparently, Ring of Honor, via a statement given by an employee at their show, would rather I cheer rabidly for more and more action at whatever the cost. This sounds incredibly selfish.

 

--No, it sounds extremely ignorant, your misunderstanding that is. I will keep the belt in spite of the fans who boo me for taking the night off when I have a concussion. This has been my objection all along. You want to know why some wrestlers find it so hard to take a night off when they are risking permanent physical injury by continuing? Because of the reactions I have received by some of the fans when I have done so. Do you think we want to risk that type of a backlash for putting our physical health first? When will it be applauded? When I'm in a wheelchair? The tragedy is that the majority of the fans support such a move, not just in flipant comments like this person, but by continuing to support the product, when such decisions affect the advertised main event. I have no idea why you think anything I said was meant to encourage fans to cheer rabidly for more action at whatever the cost. You missed the point entirely.

 

 

Well, if Ring of Honor wants me to be selfish, so be it. I cannot purchase tickets to a show where I know I may very well not see the scheduled main event. Until Nigel McGuinness loses the ROH Championship, I won’t be at any more shows. And hopefully, this diatribe will strike a chord with someone, be it McGuinness himself, other wrestlers risking their bodies beyond the standards of reason, or promoters looking to put on shows featuring such athletes. Six months ago, we experienced the greatest tragedy in wrestling history. Today, we have not learned from it.

 

--What you said struck a chord with me, not about the subject on which you think you are writing, but on the fact that in our generation we must endure such ignorant, self righteous people who for whatever reason feel it fit to bring their axe to grind based on misinformation and conjecture, rather than fact. I am not a difficult person to contact. I would have gladly explained my position and the truth of the situation to whomever it was that felt fit to post such inflammatory nonsense instead of contacting me themself. I can only believe that the real objection of this person is to the situation of me as champion rather than anything regarding my conduct as such.

 

 

Nigel's respone to Concussgate.

[Scroby 0]

Ok I would like to point something out. I know concussions are now a bigger deal because it was proven that Beniot had multiple Concussions that where un-treated for that made his mind go all wacky, but what people need to realize is that, not all concussions can really fuck you up...well they can but there are different levls of concussions. There are minor and major concussions.

 

Nigel may have a minor concussion and is most likely cleared to wrestle. Now since he has a minor concussion and is most likely medically cleared, as long as Nigel is save and knows how to protect himself when he takes a wrestling move. It sounds like the fan or many ROH fans bought the concussion gimmick hook, line, and sinker.

 

Now to be completely honest, if it is a major concussion and he's wrestling on his own whim or against doctor's advice, then yeah he's a dumbass. Major concussions are not a good thing and I know when I had one back when I was a kid I was scared shitless of fucking myself up and stayed away from sports entirely for 3 months. Which sucked but I did it so the concussion had no long term affect on my brain.

 

I don't know, concussions are now a touchy subject nowadays, but it all depends on how bad the concussion is really..and how dumb the fans are.

[Retard Girl 0]

OK Dave,

........skip a few......

I would have gladly explained my position and the truth of the situation to whomever it was that felt fit to post such inflammatory nonsense instead of contacting me themself. I can only believe that the real objection of this person is to the situation of me as champion rather than anything regarding my conduct as such.

 

 

Nigel's respone to Concussgate.

 

 

 

this amused me so much. i love when fans get all snobbety and think they know when they don't. i'm not claiming to "know", so don't go there, lol.

 

if someone is injured, deal with it? gracious.

[Bix 0]

Someone at the F4W boards dug this up from a McGuinness interview last year.

 

Barbie asked, who has the hardest head, you’ve ever head butted? Nigel says he doesn’t know and that they all feel the same, but the ring post in Liverpool was quite an experience. OIB asks how he kept standing after that? Nigel just said the adrenaline and the crowd kept him going. He said after that he had to take a lot of time off, due to post concussion syndrome.

Yet this week, in the letter to WO.com, he said:

 

I did not willingly concuss myself last year in a match with Bryan Danielson. The headshots to which you are referring, while gruesome indeed, caused no concussion.

[Maztinho 0]

Someone at the F4W boards dug this up from a McGuinness interview last year.

 

Barbie asked, who has the hardest head, you’ve ever head butted? Nigel says he doesn’t know and that they all feel the same, but the ring post in Liverpool was quite an experience. OIB asks how he kept standing after that? Nigel just said the adrenaline and the crowd kept him going. He said after that he had to take a lot of time off, due to post concussion syndrome.

Yet this week, in the letter to WO.com, he said:

 

I did not willingly concuss myself last year in a match with Bryan Danielson. The headshots to which you are referring, while gruesome indeed, caused no concussion.

 

But didn't he say that he got a concussion giving the Tower of London sometime later? Couldn't that have been the concussion he needed to take time off for?

 

However I did get a concussion a few weeks later in a match against Bryan from a simple back bump after giving a Tower of London which you seem not to object to.

[Scroby 0]

Someone at the F4W boards dug this up from a McGuinness interview last year.

 

Barbie asked, who has the hardest head, you’ve ever head butted? Nigel says he doesn’t know and that they all feel the same, but the ring post in Liverpool was quite an experience. OIB asks how he kept standing after that? Nigel just said the adrenaline and the crowd kept him going. He said after that he had to take a lot of time off, due to post concussion syndrome.

Yet this week, in the letter to WO.com, he said:

 

I did not willingly concuss myself last year in a match with Bryan Danielson. The headshots to which you are referring, while gruesome indeed, caused no concussion.

He must have forgot.