WWE General Discussion - September 2007

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

As I mentioned before Lance Cade was part of HBK's first training class down in TWA (along with Brian "Spanky" Kendrick, ROH's Bryan Danielson and the seemingly out of wrestling Shooter Shultz). Trevor Murdoch was trained in Harley Races school - the same school the wwe recommends to all second and thrid generation wannabe wrestlers, meaning they have the utmost respect for the school. HHH is a HUGE Harley Race fan from back in the day to boot and Harley has put over Murdoch and CM Punk as two future stars in the business and two guys he'd love to wrestle in his prime.

 

Shad Gaspard and JTG are OVW developmental fodder.

[hyperchord24 0]

Let's see, what's worse? Not pleasing a crowd after an unplanned anticlimactic finish of an undercard match at a house show, or doing something stupid that could get someone hurt, get you fined, suspended, buried or even fired?

 

As professionals, you just have to let things go to keep your job and food on the table.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I don't get being fired for sticking to your gimmick and trying to give the fans their money's worth at a house show. A lot of stupid shit goes down at house shows with ribs.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I think some of their heat might just as easily be down to them threatening to fight the rednecks for real while in the ring. It probably wasn't this single incident that caused them to be fired, but that it was the last straw.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

There's a lot of analysis based on speculation and hearsay. There may very well be other incidents factors besides what we've heard regarding Cryme Time's firing.

[Enigma 0]

I referee a lot of Georgia independents, and I can tell you that I would have been FURIOUS of two huge dudes just decided to grab me and do their finisher on me without telling me beforehand, especially if I had never taken the move before.

 

That is just 100% unprofessional and reckless. I'm glad they got fired for it.

[qdes 0]

Greatest site ever:

 

http://www.thewrestlingfan.com/twfhell.html

 

Don't know if it's been posted or not. NOT Work Safe.

 

That is awesome.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Dude, Cryme Tyme's finisher was basically a Samoan drop, it's not like it was a super spike piledriver.

[Scroby 0]

I referee a lot of Georgia independents, and I can tell you that I would have been FURIOUS of two huge dudes just decided to grab me and do their finisher on me without telling me beforehand, especially if I had never taken the move before.

 

That is just 100% unprofessional and reckless. I'm glad they got fired for it.

Do we even know if the Ref had no clue how to take it? I'd be extremely shocked if WWE hired a Ref who didn't know how to bump.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Dude, Cryme Tyme's finisher was basically a Samoan drop, it's not like it was a super spike piledriver.

 

Yeah but did the ref know that? I mean, obviously when they picked him up for it they gave him some sort of audible, what did they say? 'Take the finisher', 'Samoan Drop', know knows? If the ref didn't know ahead of time what he was taking, he wouldn't neccessarily know what was happening and how to take the move and was put in danger, whether it was a spike piledriver or what. He could have went with the part of the move JTG uses and landed on his head, took the drop at the wrong time, any number of things.

[Enigma 0]

I referee a lot of Georgia independents, and I can tell you that I would have been FURIOUS of two huge dudes just decided to grab me and do their finisher on me without telling me beforehand, especially if I had never taken the move before.

 

That is just 100% unprofessional and reckless. I'm glad they got fired for it.

Do we even know if the Ref had no clue how to take it? I'd be extremely shocked if WWE hired a Ref who didn't know how to bump.

There's a big difference between getting squashed in the corner and taking a tag team's double-team finisher, especially if you've never practiced it with them before.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I think they'll be hired back before the end of the year.

[Hawk 34 0]

Someone always wants to throw out the race card when it involves black people, it could never be that they were unprofessional.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

"He should've ended it with money money yea yea."

 

Copyrighted by WWE.

[Human Fly 0]

Dude, Cryme Tyme's finisher was basically a Samoan drop, it's not like it was a super spike piledriver.

 

Yeah but did the ref know that? I mean, obviously when they picked him up for it they gave him some sort of audible, what did they say? 'Take the finisher', 'Samoan Drop', know knows? If the ref didn't know ahead of time what he was taking, he wouldn't neccessarily know what was happening and how to take the move and was put in danger, whether it was a spike piledriver or what. He could have went with the part of the move JTG uses and landed on his head, took the drop at the wrong time, any number of things.

 

The Raw brand has what? 5 Refs? This ref probably reffed about 40 - 50 Cryme Tyme matches over the last year. I am sure he was well aware of what their finisher was. He might not have known exactly how to take it, but I doubt he was pissing himself expecting the Steiner Screwdriver.

[Enigma 0]

Dude, Cryme Tyme's finisher was basically a Samoan drop, it's not like it was a super spike piledriver.

 

Yeah but did the ref know that? I mean, obviously when they picked him up for it they gave him some sort of audible, what did they say? 'Take the finisher', 'Samoan Drop', know knows? If the ref didn't know ahead of time what he was taking, he wouldn't neccessarily know what was happening and how to take the move and was put in danger, whether it was a spike piledriver or what. He could have went with the part of the move JTG uses and landed on his head, took the drop at the wrong time, any number of things.

 

The Raw brand has what? 5 Refs? This ref probably reffed about 40 - 50 Cryme Tyme matches over the last year. I am sure he was well aware of what their finisher was. He might not have known exactly how to take it, but I doubt he was pissing himself expecting the Steiner Screwdriver.

 

How do you know this wasn't a new ref or a rookie ref getting a tryout?

[Hawk 34 0]

The important thing isn't that they did a unplanned spot on the ref but made a clear threat in front of the locker to physically harm Murdoch and Cade. The ref bump was just the final straw. They'll be back in a couple of months. No one ever stays fired, unless they want that.

[Scroby 0]

Dude, Cryme Tyme's finisher was basically a Samoan drop, it's not like it was a super spike piledriver.

 

Yeah but did the ref know that? I mean, obviously when they picked him up for it they gave him some sort of audible, what did they say? 'Take the finisher', 'Samoan Drop', know knows? If the ref didn't know ahead of time what he was taking, he wouldn't neccessarily know what was happening and how to take the move and was put in danger, whether it was a spike piledriver or what. He could have went with the part of the move JTG uses and landed on his head, took the drop at the wrong time, any number of things.

 

The Raw brand has what? 5 Refs? This ref probably reffed about 40 - 50 Cryme Tyme matches over the last year. I am sure he was well aware of what their finisher was. He might not have known exactly how to take it, but I doubt he was pissing himself expecting the Steiner Screwdriver.

 

How do you know this wasn't a new ref or a rookie ref getting a tryout?

How do we know anything about the Ref sitution?

[tekcop 0]

How do you know this wasn't a new ref or a rookie ref getting a tryout?

The whole being a part of a rib thing kind of makes one assume it wasn't. No?

[Jingus 0]

1. Like a couple people have said but most have ignored, the entire bit about the finish isn't the only problem here. Crymetime publicly threatening to shoot on C&M was unprofessional at any time, and stupid as hell at this particular time.

 

2. Why does everyone assume that C&M did the rib without office approval? I seriously doubt that a referee would just be like "OK LOL" if randomly asked to change a planned finish without at least asking the agents first.

 

3. The specific move done to the referee doesn't matter. It's irrelevant whether it was a hiptoss or a Ganso Bomb. The important thing to remember is that the WWE is such a scripted company that generally frowns on improvisation unless the talent is expressly given permission to do so ahead of time. Between the dumbass "whatever happens out there" comment and the unplanned ref bump, Crymetime demonstrated twice in one night that they are more than willing to break script and go into business for themselves.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

It could be that Cryme Time was unprofessional, or, or, it COULD be the other way around....

 

PWTorch.com reports that the Cryme Tyme release stemmed from actions the tag team performed following their Terre Haute house show match against Cade and Murdoch.

 

According to the Torch report, the two teams had reportedly been developing heat with each other over the course of the past few weeks. That built into an incident prior to the match, in which Shad Gaspard told Lance Cade that "what happens in the ring happens," essentially implying that there might be some stiff shots exchanged. Cade mocked Gaspard's threat in front of a number of wrestlers backstage.

 

(PWInsider.com later reported that other sources believe Cade made the first remark after Cryme Tyme struggled to grasp the plans for the match finish backstage. The PWInsider report says Gaspard's comment was in response to Cade saying something like, "see what happens in the ring.")

 

In order to get back at Cryme Tyme for what they perceived as a threat, Cade and Murdoch met with the referee and arranged a rib. Essentially, the plan was to "fast count" while JTG was out of the ring, resulting in a count out loss for Cryme Tyme; Cryme Tyme was unaware of this plan until it was executed in front of the live audience.

 

In what sources say was a move to save face, Cryme Tyme then decided, without telling the referee, to execute their finishing move on him (they reportedly did so safely, but it was still unexpected). They also tossed his belt into the crowd.

 

Words were exchanged in the backstage area following the segment, and WWE management eventually made the call to release Cryme Tyme, who were reportedly on thin ice with management anyway due to what some backstage perceived as an attitude problem. The tag team was reportedly unhappy and surprised with WWE's decision.

 

The increased scrutiny on WWE stemming from the Benoit tragedy, the Congressional investigation and the recent steroid controversy has resulted in a zero-tolerance policy backstage.

 

Now, you all are piling on Cryme Time for being unprofessional, when Cade and Murdoch went and changed a FUCKING finish with the help of a referee. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't WWE JUST institute a policy where refs would be held accountable to making sure the finishes went as planned and they'd be fined if they didn't? So, not only did Cade and Murdoch get away with changing a finish and "exposing the business" (I'm sure the fans all noticed the blatant screw job), but the ref got away with violating another of the WWE's toothless policies. I think CT did a good job at the end by making the screw job look "planned" by doing the move on the ref and throwing his belt away. That seems to fit WWE's locker room justice mentality to a tee.

 

And people were mentioning how "easy" it would be to get another tag team that's as over as CT was. First, CT wrestled only a handful of times. They were introduced through a series of vignettes, wrestled a few times, reduced to backstage skits, taken off TV for MONTHS, and returned to only do a few backstage and in ring skits. Yet, they were more over (by miles) than the extremely heavily pushed tag team champs, one of which has never been over in his seemingly endless incarnations. Lance Cade, I'm talking to you. Even tonight, the face to face between the Rednecks and Londrick was lacking heat, and um, one of the teams is over. Guess which one.

 

Yes, CT should have been punished, but in an environment with very few over tag teams, they should have been suspended or asked to work a few house shows for free. As for the Rednecks, they need to lose the tag titles for interfering with a match finish and resulting in the loss of a much needed tag team. But, whatever.

 

 

[Jingus 0]

Why does everyone assume that C&M did the rib without office approval? I seriously doubt that a referee would just be like "OK LOL" if randomly asked to change a planned finish without at least asking the agents first.

 

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Why does everyone assume that C&M did the rib without office approval? I seriously doubt that a referee would just be like "OK LOL" if randomly asked to change a planned finish without at least asking the agents first.

 

And why are you assuming they did? No report has even hinted at such so you're reaching with your theory more than anyone else. Using your technique I could say that Murdoch called them pickaninnies and told them to carry their bags. Come on now.

 

[Scroby 0]

Now, you all are piling on Cryme Time for being unprofessional, when Cade and Murdoch went and changed a FUCKING finish with the help of a referee. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't WWE JUST institute a policy where refs would be held accountable to making sure the finishes went as planned and they'd be fined if they didn't? So, not only did Cade and Murdoch get away with changing a finish and "exposing the business" (I'm sure the fans all noticed the blatant screw job), but the ref got away with violating another of the WWE's toothless policies. I think CT did a good job at the end by making the screw job look "planned" by doing the move on the ref and throwing his belt away. That seems to fit WWE's locker room justice mentality to a tee.

 

Actually, a few months ago, it was internet reported that WWE had made it so the Refs didn't know the finish to a match. It was done in a attempt to make the wrestlers work extra harder to follow/break the rules to make it seem more un-scripted. Unless things had changed, that was the last I heard about the Ref working the rules thing.

 

Everything in this match was unprofessional, but the truth of the matter is, we don't EXCATLY know how things went down. The only people who can tell us is either Cryme Time, The Ref, or Cade and Murdoch. All 5 of these people should be at fault for how things went down, but I don't think Cryme Time should have been fired over something that happen at a house show.

[Enigma 0]

Now, you all are piling on Cryme Time for being unprofessional, when Cade and Murdoch went and changed a FUCKING finish with the help of a referee.

 

Wow, have you ever been to a WWE house show? If this were on national television, I could understand your outcry. But they do ridiculous stuff all the time because they know only those 1,000-3,000 people will see it.

 

One of the house shows I went to, Christian kept giving Albert a wedgie duing an 8-man tag match. He would periodically just run in during the match and pull Albert's trunks up his ass. The faces and the heels all laughed.

 

Another one I went too, the MONSTER ANIMAL BATISTA~! was more focused on harassing Tony Chimel than his tag match with Edge against Chris Benoit & Randy Orton.

 

I also recall a house show where Umaga wore a pair of Randy Orton's trunks outside his long tights and one of Edge's shinguards.

 

House shows are full of ridiculous stuff. Finish changes like this are nothing as long as they are approved by the agents, which it likely was since Cade & Murdoch weren't fired too.

 

Cryme Tyme making physical threats to Cade & Murdoch and then calling an audible to do their finishing move to an untrained referee who had likely never practiced the move with them before was 100% reckless and unprofessional.

[Scroby 0]

Cryme Tyme making physical threats to Cade & Murdoch and then calling an audible to do their finishing move to an untrained referee who had likely never practiced the move with them before was 100% reckless and unprofessional.

 

Could we please stop saying that the Ref was untrained and had no idea how to take the move before? We don't even know what Ref it was, so how can we assume he "wasn't" trained? And why the hell are we automatically aussuming that this one Ref doesn't know how to bump? For one, if someone doesn't know how to bump, Ref or not, they shouldn't be in the ring and if some company puts a Ref in the ring and that Ref can't bump, then thats the company's fault.

[Hawk 34 0]

Cryme Tyme making physical threats to Cade & Murdoch and then calling an audible to do their finishing move to an untrained referee who had likely never practiced the move with them before was 100% reckless and unprofessional.

 

Could we please stop saying that the Ref was untrained and had no idea how to take the move before? We don't even know what Ref it was, so how can we assume he "wasn't" trained? And why the hell are we automatically assuming that this one Ref doesn't know how to bump? For one, if someone doesn't know how to bump, Ref or not, they shouldn't be in the ring and if some company puts a Ref in the ring and that Ref can't bump, then that's the company's fault.

 

The training or lack thereof, regarding the referee is irrelevant. The issue is that they made a public threat to potentially harm Cade and Murdoch inside the ring and then took a referee and made him take a unplanned bump.

[Scroby 0]

Cryme Tyme making physical threats to Cade & Murdoch and then calling an audible to do their finishing move to an untrained referee who had likely never practiced the move with them before was 100% reckless and unprofessional.

 

Could we please stop saying that the Ref was untrained and had no idea how to take the move before? We don't even know what Ref it was, so how can we assume he "wasn't" trained? And why the hell are we automatically assuming that this one Ref doesn't know how to bump? For one, if someone doesn't know how to bump, Ref or not, they shouldn't be in the ring and if some company puts a Ref in the ring and that Ref can't bump, then that's the company's fault.

 

The training or lack thereof, regarding the referee is irrelevant. The issue is that they made a public threat to potentially harm Cade and Murdoch inside the ring and then took a referee and made him take a unplanned bump.

that's something that should be complained about, but to keep saying the Ref is untrained when we don't actually know is something else.

[Mike wanna be 0]

If C&M can change a match finish on the fly, CT should be able to change post-match shenanigans on the fly.

 

Considering that CT was already having "attitude problems", wouldn't it look really fucking bad if they got counted out when that wasn't the finish and then proceeded to just stand there and look like dumbfounded "Durr, wut happnd? Y we not teh winz?" retards?

 

Like I said, it's a Samoan drop. Shad could've easily carried him around for a few seconds to "showboat" while he just told him "Samoan drop on 3, don't worry about J", but we don't know how it happened either way.

 

I'm a fan of both teams, so as long as CT was safe about it I'd say that C&M started Improv Night at the Apollo House Show, CT just followed suit and shouldn't take as much heat as they did.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Cryme Tyme making physical threats to Cade & Murdoch and then calling an audible to do their finishing move to an untrained referee who had likely never practiced the move with them before was 100% reckless and unprofessional.

 

Could we please stop saying that the Ref was untrained and had no idea how to take the move before? We don't even know what Ref it was, so how can we assume he "wasn't" trained? And why the hell are we automatically assuming that this one Ref doesn't know how to bump? For one, if someone doesn't know how to bump, Ref or not, they shouldn't be in the ring and if some company puts a Ref in the ring and that Ref can't bump, then that's the company's fault.

 

The training or lack thereof, regarding the referee is irrelevant. The issue is that they made a public threat to potentially harm Cade and Murdoch inside the ring and then took a referee and made him take a unplanned bump.

that's something that should be complained about, but to keep saying the Ref is untrained when we don't actually know is something else.

 

Wasn't the problem the ref not being prepared to take the bump?