Week 3 NFL and Indanap'iss Cotes

[dh86 0]

He went 11-5 in his first year at QB, and even though people want to blame him for that lost to Denver, he was awsome in the 4th quarter and they were still in that game.

 

The next year(98 I think) when Gailey left, Thigpen left, and both tackles, the offense sucked and it had reason to.

 

Then he was moved back to the bench until 2000 when he led them to a 8-4 record when he took over for Kent Graham. They also happened to rebuild the offensive line.

 

Kordell then went 13-3 the next year as a starter. He was benched in the 3rd game of the next year.

 

After sucking for 9 games in Chicago, that pretty much ended his career.

 

My point is that I don't think that a guy that had a 13-3 season, a 8-4 season and a 11-5 season can be lumped in with the "that guy sucks and can't play the position". Its not his fault the the Pittsburgh line sucked in 98-99 and they had no playmakers at the reciever position.

 

Kordell wasn't the greatest, but he got plenty of chances because the guy was a little above average at the QB position. Can you really say the same thing for Joey Harrington?

 

Of course you cant say the same about Harrington, but Kordell is very comparable to Rex Grossman who you named in your post as "not getting a chance if he was a young, athletic black QB". Rex is 18-7 as a starter and went to the super bowl as a starter. I would say that the Steelers won in spite of Kordell and he was the only reason they didnt win the super bowl sooner than 2006. I would say the same thing for Rex the past two years. The point is that Kordell got roughly 6 years as a starter in the same place and was trusted even with his highly inconsistent passing.

[Ripper 0]

Okay, Chicago is a bad example.

 

But he is the guy that most obviously needs to be benched in the NFL.

 

Oh yeah, JP Lousman. I seroiusly doubt the experiment would have lasted this long if that was a black QB, but cause like it or not, that traditionalist view of the QB position is still very prevailent in the NFL.

 

I personally don't care because it only applies to people that need to be benched anyway. NOONE is going to bitch over a good black QB or a good white QB. Unless you live in Philly or Atlanta.

[dh86 0]

I think black QBs are under more scrutiny when they don't perform well. And not really from the fans.

 

People like a QB perform well, and if you are doing well, no one gives a shit if you are black, white, purple, green, whatever.

 

But if you aren't doing well, the fans will call for your head, unless you are young.

 

But then you look at the teams, white sucky ass QB's seem to get a unlimited amount of chances while alot of the black QB's get "maybe you should try wide reciever" and you never see them get another chance at the position again.

 

Like it or not, alot of GM's and Owners are still old time guys and alot of them probably do still have that "black QB's don't work" thing in the back of their mind, and I do think that underperforming black QBs are on a extremely short leash when it comes to their career. I think that alot of traditionalist are in the position to control the look of the team, and while I don't think there is a GM or Owner that would be against bringing in a Black QB, I think that any sign of struggle will validate the traditionalist view in their eyes.

 

So to review, this whole black qb/white qb thing only applies to those that aren't performing well at all an are going to lose their jobs. Like if Rex Grossman was a young black athletic QB, he would be returning punts right now and Brian Greise would be starting. I don't think and young black QB would get that much time to suck and I don't think he would get a second chance to suck on another team. Rex on the other hand, if Chicago ever does get rid of him, will be picked up by someone else. And maybe someone else after that. Akili Smith on the other hand...not so much. And let week 9 roll around and Travaris Jackson is still not ready. THat could be the last you ever see that kid play in the NFL. Ever.

 

Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. If you suck you suck. But the old "he just can't play the QB position" excuse seems to still fly up for black QB's and the "the system wasn't right for him" seems to fly up for the white QB's that suck. IT really doesn't make a difference in the end because no matter where any of them go, they suck, because...well....they suck and eventually they run out of chances. Just the black ones run out of them alot quicker. Even when they don't suck nearly as much.

 

McNabb, his big ass contract, his pro bowl appearances, wouldn't know a fucking thing about that and is just being a whiney bitch in this whole situation because he is being booed. When he was consistantly playing well, the only people critisizing him was the Philly people, and honestly, they are going to critisize anything. He should just shut the fuck up and play the goddamn game.

 

 

Akili Smith got picked up...multiple times. He wasnt good enough to even make a team's training camp. Tavaris may never see the field again after the mid point of the season but that has nothing to do with race. This past Sunday, he played like a SWAC QB playing against a NFL defense instead of an NFL QB.

[Guest Gym Class Fallout]

NOONE is going to bitch over a good black QB or a good white QB. Unless you live in Philly or Atlanta.

 

I HATE Tom Brady! Bench this guy.

[Ripper 0]

I think black QBs are under more scrutiny when they don't perform well. And not really from the fans.

 

People like a QB perform well, and if you are doing well, no one gives a shit if you are black, white, purple, green, whatever.

 

But if you aren't doing well, the fans will call for your head, unless you are young.

 

But then you look at the teams, white sucky ass QB's seem to get a unlimited amount of chances while alot of the black QB's get "maybe you should try wide reciever" and you never see them get another chance at the position again.

 

Like it or not, alot of GM's and Owners are still old time guys and alot of them probably do still have that "black QB's don't work" thing in the back of their mind, and I do think that underperforming black QBs are on a extremely short leash when it comes to their career. I think that alot of traditionalist are in the position to control the look of the team, and while I don't think there is a GM or Owner that would be against bringing in a Black QB, I think that any sign of struggle will validate the traditionalist view in their eyes.

 

So to review, this whole black qb/white qb thing only applies to those that aren't performing well at all an are going to lose their jobs. Like if Rex Grossman was a young black athletic QB, he would be returning punts right now and Brian Greise would be starting. I don't think and young black QB would get that much time to suck and I don't think he would get a second chance to suck on another team. Rex on the other hand, if Chicago ever does get rid of him, will be picked up by someone else. And maybe someone else after that. Akili Smith on the other hand...not so much. And let week 9 roll around and Travaris Jackson is still not ready. THat could be the last you ever see that kid play in the NFL. Ever.

 

Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. If you suck you suck. But the old "he just can't play the QB position" excuse seems to still fly up for black QB's and the "the system wasn't right for him" seems to fly up for the white QB's that suck. IT really doesn't make a difference in the end because no matter where any of them go, they suck, because...well....they suck and eventually they run out of chances. Just the black ones run out of them alot quicker. Even when they don't suck nearly as much.

 

McNabb, his big ass contract, his pro bowl appearances, wouldn't know a fucking thing about that and is just being a whiney bitch in this whole situation because he is being booed. When he was consistantly playing well, the only people critisizing him was the Philly people, and honestly, they are going to critisize anything. He should just shut the fuck up and play the goddamn game.

 

 

Akili Smith got picked up...multiple times. He wasnt good enough to even make a team's training camp. Tavaris may never see the field again after the mid point of the season but that has nothing to do with race. This past Sunday, he played like a SWAC QB playing against a NFL defense instead of an NFL QB.

 

No he didn't Akili Smith played 2 games in his NFL career and was nothing more than practice squad fodder after his first attempt at a NFL QB. Am I saying he deserved another chance? No. He sucked. But at the same time, look at Tim Couch who got chances at Cleveland, Green Bay, Cincinnati, Chicago, Tennessee, Miami, Pittsburgh, Houston and Jacksonville. Or Ryan Leaf who got chances in San Diego, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Seattle and teams were still interested when he just decided to retire.

 

What do all these guys have in common? They sucked and should be cut. But with black QB's like Akili, sadly, alot of people still expect them to not be successful NFL QB's because they are black. And alot of people from that era of thinking happen to be GM's and Owners now.

 

Do I think GOOD Qb's face more flack because they are black? Of course not. Its about performance and wins (Unless you play in Atlanta or Philly...or you are Peter Noone).

 

But when it comes to the hangerons trying to make a team, I think that black QBs have a harder time because, like I said, like it or not there is still a certain stigma attached to black QBs.

 

 

[dh86 0]

I think black QBs are under more scrutiny when they don't perform well. And not really from the fans.

 

People like a QB perform well, and if you are doing well, no one gives a shit if you are black, white, purple, green, whatever.

 

But if you aren't doing well, the fans will call for your head, unless you are young.

 

But then you look at the teams, white sucky ass QB's seem to get a unlimited amount of chances while alot of the black QB's get "maybe you should try wide reciever" and you never see them get another chance at the position again.

 

Like it or not, alot of GM's and Owners are still old time guys and alot of them probably do still have that "black QB's don't work" thing in the back of their mind, and I do think that underperforming black QBs are on a extremely short leash when it comes to their career. I think that alot of traditionalist are in the position to control the look of the team, and while I don't think there is a GM or Owner that would be against bringing in a Black QB, I think that any sign of struggle will validate the traditionalist view in their eyes.

 

So to review, this whole black qb/white qb thing only applies to those that aren't performing well at all an are going to lose their jobs. Like if Rex Grossman was a young black athletic QB, he would be returning punts right now and Brian Greise would be starting. I don't think and young black QB would get that much time to suck and I don't think he would get a second chance to suck on another team. Rex on the other hand, if Chicago ever does get rid of him, will be picked up by someone else. And maybe someone else after that. Akili Smith on the other hand...not so much. And let week 9 roll around and Travaris Jackson is still not ready. THat could be the last you ever see that kid play in the NFL. Ever.

 

Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. If you suck you suck. But the old "he just can't play the QB position" excuse seems to still fly up for black QB's and the "the system wasn't right for him" seems to fly up for the white QB's that suck. IT really doesn't make a difference in the end because no matter where any of them go, they suck, because...well....they suck and eventually they run out of chances. Just the black ones run out of them alot quicker. Even when they don't suck nearly as much.

 

McNabb, his big ass contract, his pro bowl appearances, wouldn't know a fucking thing about that and is just being a whiney bitch in this whole situation because he is being booed. When he was consistantly playing well, the only people critisizing him was the Philly people, and honestly, they are going to critisize anything. He should just shut the fuck up and play the goddamn game.

 

 

Akili Smith got picked up...multiple times. He wasnt good enough to even make a team's training camp. Tavaris may never see the field again after the mid point of the season but that has nothing to do with race. This past Sunday, he played like a SWAC QB playing against a NFL defense instead of an NFL QB.

 

No he didn't Akili Smith played 2 games in his NFL career and was nothing more than practice squad fodder after his first attempt at a NFL QB. Am I saying he deserved another chance? No. He sucked. But at the same time, look at Tim Couch who got chances at Cleveland, Green Bay, Cincinnati, Chicago, Tennessee, Miami, Pittsburgh, Houston and Jacksonville. Or Ryan Leaf who got chances in San Diego, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Seattle and teams were still interested when he just decided to retire.

 

What do all these guys have in common? They sucked and should be cut. But with black QB's like Akili, sadly, alot of people still expect them to not be successful NFL QB's because they are black. And alot of people from that era of thinking happen to be GM's and Owners now.

 

Do I think GOOD Qb's face more flack because they are black? Of course not. Its about performance and wins (Unless you play in Atlanta or Philly...or you are Peter Noone).

 

But when it comes to the hangerons trying to make a team, I think that black QBs have a harder time because, like I said, like it or not there is still a certain stigma attached to black QBs.

 

LOL...Tim Couch did not get chances with 9 different teams. He went to Green Bay and Jacksonville and was cut prior to the season. Akili went to Green Bay and Tampa Bay and cut before the season. He went to NFL Europe and played terrible and is currently a CFL backup. Based on what should he have gotten more leeway? Tim Couch and Joey Harrington both look like superstar QBs compared to him. The days of Warren Moon and Doug Williams not getting a chance for years are long over.

 

[Ripper 0]

Yes, getting called in for a workout with a team does show that said team is giving you a chance to make their team.

 

And yeah, the days of noone will sign you after a great college career are over when it comes to black QB's, but lets not pretend that line of thinking doesn't still exist when it comes to black QB's. There was no mass lobotomy for people that were around in the 90's. The stigma is still out there. And with every massive failure and sucky player like Smith, the stigma is still validated to some. And once again, the same Owners are still in place from that era. the GMs of now were players of that era where alot of them agreed with that line of thinking.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Eric Crouch representin' the "maybe you should play wide receiver instead of quarterback" angle from the other side of the racial fence.

 

I don't think race has anything to do with it. If you make more plays with your feet than you do with your arm, you're more than likely considered a better prospect at another skill position if there are better fits at the quarterback position. Michael Vick might've made a pretty damn good running back or receiver, for example, but people were wowed by his (admittedly impressive) arm strength and ignored his below average accuracy, throwing mechanics, and decision-making.

[Ripper 0]

Eh he was accurate when he had time(which oddly the same sports radio guys that said it was his fault last year are using the line and the recievers to defend Joey Harrington now) and the only problem with his decision making was his thought that he could escape any sack situation.

 

 

Oh and that whole killing dogs thing.

 

And once again, I could give two shits about the whole black Qb getting a smaller window for success thing. Because like I said, it only applies in cases of where the guy has no business under center in the NFL anyway. They should get cut because the suck horribly.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I definitely remember Akili Smith playing pre-season games for Green Bay a few years back. Some QBs simply don't get a legitimate second chance if they don't show anything. How is Akili Smith's fate any different than another QB like Cade McNown?

[Ripper 0]

Cade McNown was on his third team and had intrest from some others before he tore his shoulder up.

 

[Guest Vitamin X]

I always felt bad for Akili because he was a victim of the Bengals' "okay let's just start over- AGAIN- by drafting another quarterback and see if THAT works out!" before, you know, BUILDING THE REST OF THE TEAM. I think his confidence was shattered, plus he had some injury issues as well, after Cincy that never let him regroup. He had a lot of mobility and a good arm, and never really got a chance on the Coslet/LeBeau Bengals who were mainly a running team. I mean, if you look at the team stats that year, they were godawful in just about EVERY category, but he was the scapegoat.

[Ripper 0]

Well that and he was fucking horrible. I don't feel bad for him. That guy was just awful.

 

Yeah, others on the team were awful too, but he was really really bad.

[Guest Vitamin X]

We should start some discussion about QB's that might've been better had they gotten more of a chance to play or if they weren't such colossal fuckups off the field. Ryan Leaf was INT-prone, but he had some brief moments where he looked like he might finally turn things around.

 

Oh, and what about Drew Henson? Guy should never have played for the Yankees.

[Ripper 0]

I would go with Ryan Leaf. His refusal to get the surgery on his wrist was baffeling to me. I figure that he would have eventually stop being a young dumb hothead and gotten it together. Then he retired at the ripe old age of 26.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I know a little about Ryan Leaf through some mutual friends and they gave the impression that he never really wanted to play in the NFL. He scored that first contract and invested wisely in real estate in the Seattle, Washington area. I know there was a lot of other noise going on with his career (off the field antics, injuries), but his friends think he never really had the desire to play more than a couple of years and that he thinks of himself as a genius for getting out early as a rich man.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

That explains why he signed with Dallas and other teams later on...

[cabbageboy 0]

I think some of this could be that quite a few of the black QBs could likely be converted to another position, be it WR, punt returns, RB, etc. What else is Tim Couch going to do in football other than QB? Or Ryan Leaf? That was my main problem with Kordell Stewart, who was pictured above. The guy was simply not an NFL QB, but he was a hell of a good football player. During his initial NFL time with Neal O'Donnell as QB with Pittsburgh, Stewart was incredible. He played WR, RB, returned punts, occasionally even kicked if I recall. But the Steelers were determined to make him a QB only, and eventually it wrecked him. They did learn from it with Randle El though, another multi talented player that was a college QB.

[ant_7000 0]

Where's Aaron Brooks these days? Is this Culpepper last chance at a starting QB gig, if he doesn't do well?

[CanadianChris 0]

Where's Aaron Brooks these days?

Currently out of the league.

 

Is this Culpepper last chance at a starting QB gig, if he doesn't do well?

Maybe. At the very least, teams will start to be really cautious about signing him.

 

I said at the start of last season that he'd be out of the league in three years.

[Guest]

I don't think it's his last chance. He's proven that he can play in the past, so much like Jeff George, someone will always be interested.

[Guest FaSho]

Do you guys think the Texans are doing really good and will have a winning record this season?

[Guest]

Looking at their schedule...9-7 is a possibility, and something they should be able to grab. I say 8-8.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

The Texans look like a team that can win every game against bad teams and maybe even upset a good team or two.

[Guest]

Just like the '05 Jags.

[Kinetic 0]

I don't like their chances against Indy this week without Andre Johnson. So far, I'd say they look like the second best team in their division.

[snuffbox 0]

I don't think it's his last chance. He's proven that he can play in the past, so much like Jeff George, someone will always be interested.

 

He's black, though.

[Guest]

Sorry. I forgot. For a second I thought I was talking about Jeff Garcia.

[Kinetic 0]

I just realized that I rated Houston over Jacksonville and Tennessee. Is it the black quarterbacks? Am I part of the problem?

[Failed Bridge 0]

Marshall University: Home of the Glass Quarterback

you stole my thing!

 

back to the McNabb thing; the Quarerbacks in the league I would put ahead of him are Brady, Peyton, and Carson Palmer...that's probably it (when McNabb is healthy).