The Internet is Hurting The Business: Part 1

[JPopStarKami 0]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/column.php?articleid=198486373

 

The Internet is Hurting The Business: Part 1

11/30/2007 by Glenn Gilbertti

 

Part One: "Internet Wrestling Fans don't know what a good match is!"

 

First of all, let me describe to you what an internet wrestling fan(IWF) is by my definition. An IWF goes on the wrestling websites at least three times a week, thinks that Vince Russo killed WCW, thinks Paul Heyman is a genius and ECW is the greatest thing ever, loves cruiserweights and X-Division guys, loves Japanese wrestling, and takes whatever Wade Keller and Dave Meltzer say as gospel. Now we could debate what an IWF is, but for arguments sake, let's just say that the demographic I just described exists and it does represent a percentage of the pie chart. I would say about a third of IWF's show the aforementioned characteristics. Let's not contest this point because I think it would be a waste of time. For the purposes of this article, I'm talking about this stereotypical smart mark.

 

How do I know that they don't know what a good match is? Answer: the rating system. Most of these fans don't have any clue what a four star match is. I was at a TNA TV taping a couple of years ago and this Ring of Honor kid had a tryout match with some other X-Division guy. He was doing a Bruiser Brody rip-off gimmick complete with the boots, the "Husp, Husp" and had the "hold your wrist out in the upside down karate chop" thing working. And he weighed about 150 lbs. I'm at the monitor with I believe Harris and Storm and I'm like,"let's see how long these guys sell." Well, they have about a five minute match with every ridiculous high spot you can imagine and they sold every spot for literally almost exactly eight seconds, no more than ten tops. The thing was that this guy was supposedly having four star matches on the internet. If that's the type of matches that he'd been doing than he'd never had a four star match in his life.

 

So as I started paying attention to the X-Division guys, I started noticing that everyone was following the "8 second rule." Do your spot, sell it for 8 seconds, do another high spot, sell it for eight seconds. All the while, I'm reading on the internet how great these guys are and how they're being underutilized. I'm reading on the internet how these crazy high fliers in Ring of Honor need to be signed. I watch them and most of them are using the 8 second rule. I'm thinking, "Does anybody have a clue what a good match is?"

 

When I was booking WCW, I attended a focus group. There were 12 mainstream male wrestling fans - ages 18 to 38 - in a room being posed questions by a moderator while myself and about 4 other people from marketing were behind a two way mirror. Two of them were IWF's. We could see them, they couldn't see us, and they're being asked questions like, "Who's your favorite wrestler?" Goldberg, Austin, Rock, Sting, Outsiders they answer. "How often do you watch the shows?" Almost all of them watched the shows. "How often do you watch a ppv?" Every month. "How many times have you rented a ppv?" Zero. Wait - what was that? ZERO? How could that be? I call the moderator behind the glass and tell him to ask where they watch them. Answer: friends' houses, illegal black box, and bars. I'm like "that is unbelievable". We're writing four hours of TV a week to sell a ppv that nobody buys, but everybody sees. What a great business plan. And we wonder why WCW went out of business.

 

So the guy asks them if they liked the cruiserweights. "Nope". What do you mean "nope"? Nobody likes the cruiserweights?? I find that hard to believe. Why not? The consensus was that they're too small and they looked fake. I wanted to come out from behind the two way mirror and smack them. OF COURSE IT'S FAKE! IT'S WRESTLING! I mean smaller boxers have entertaining fights and such, why does their size matter. But then other things are coming out of this group like, "I know wrestling's fake, but Goldberg, man, I don't know. I think he's real." Good Lord. Goldberg's got wrestling fans thinking things are getting real again. Wow!

 

So I'm pretty much surmising that the reason they think the matches look fake is because they're not doing anything to make it look real. Goldberg's smashing people with three devastating moves and the match is over. Cruiserweights are smashing each other with 7 different moves and they're selling for eight seconds. But all the while, I'm reading on the internet how great their matches are. News Flash! All of the guys I know in the business are reading the internet. Just hoping and praying that they get "4 stars."

 

The problem with this is that this mindset of work that has been created infects the industry, because people believe what they read. That's marketing 101. People are more inclined to believe something when they read it. So you've got a whole bunch of up 'n comers coming into the business and everyone's killing themselves and selling for eight seconds and none of them are getting over because mainstream fans think it looks fake.

 

Here's some advice: LEARN HOW TO SELL! Instead of watching Japanese wrestling tapes where matches start with two guys standing in front of each other trading forearms to the head. Watch the main events of every WWE ppv you can get your hands on. Watch Austin, Rock, Angle, and HHH work each other and watch how long they sell. One of the main problems with the smaller guys is that they're given a specific amount of time to wrestle and they try to fit all their high spots in, but they don't figure in how long they should be selling. They end up selling everything for eight seconds and then the match is over. However, the IWF's are still putting them over and they're not changing a thing. I say those matches would be just as good if they took out a third of the high spots and selling the moves that they do more. Make the moves look like they hurt. If you don't, it just comes across as scripted acrobatics.

 

Now I don't want people to think that I don't know that Bret and Austin had a four star match. Or that Benoit/Angle was four stars or most of the matches that are generally accepted as great matches are what they are...great matches. My rant is against the subliminal education that is happening via the internet, where IWF's and the workers themselves are reading and watching guys that can't sell and being told that these guys know how to work, when the reality is that it's creating a style that's hurting the business.

 

Now, of course there are guys that are great and have a clue, like AJ and Samoa Joe. It's just that I'm worried that in this computer age we live in that a bad message is spread so fast that it's hard to find a cure. As long as the internet creates a forum where guys can be told whether they're good or not, and that message is held as gospel, even when they're not, then you can make an argument that the internet is hurting the business.

 

That's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

Someone should invite this guy to post here, so he can help bring down the entire wrestling industry.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I can accept the premise that wrestlers are not better at selling than their predecessors. I am not certain it is the case, and it really is not something I notice as a difference between classic and current wrestling. But I think it's a gap in logic to assume that selling has gone bad due to the influence of the internet, and that in turn has hurt business as a whole.

 

Also, this sounds like it was written five years ago.

[Scroby 0]

I don't get what point he's trying to get across. I understand about people barely selling anything, that bugs the hell out of me as well, but when he gets to Goldberg, I get confused.

 

One second he's talking about how he can't believe how fans are buying into the guys who are barely selling but when fans bought into Goldberg where he was killing people because the guys who were being killed sold their asses off to make Goldberg look like a machine, he complains.

 

[Guest]

I agree with everything about selling at the beginning, but then it turned into a jumbled mess. To a point, about the highspots, I agree. People are taking moves to the next level (think Canadian Destroyer, or that slam Paul Birchill does/did), when in reality, the move is just exactly what it was before. A piledriver or a side slam. There's really not anything different about the impact of the move, and it makes a lot of fans jizz in their pants just because they happen to see it. Things like that ARE hurting the business. Wrestlers are trying to perfect cool looking moves, when in reality, they need to work on other things (selling, psychology) in order to perfect their craft. Doing a cool looking move just gets you a pop that lasts until the next few times they see you do it. Then it gets old, and you have to try something else. A good match, with the selling and psychology is going to be something that people remember for a while.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with him, just not that the internet is what's hurting the business. They would be marks for themselves, internet or no internet. It's the wrestlers being marks for themselves, and trying to get the loudest pop possible by trying the craziest shit they can do. If they could work a solid match, more people would be interested in their work. I know I'm not watching gymnastics.

[The Niggardly King 0]

This is what happens when you let the Disco Inferno write an article. It started off pretty well, but the longer it went on it became a mess.

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

This is what happens when you let the Disco Inferno write an article. It started off pretty well, but the longer it went on it became a mess.

 

 

Heh. I wouldn't have noticed who it was if you wouldn't have pointed it out.

 

He should worry less about other people sellling and worry more about not getting caught illegally gambling.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

The following people care what the Disco Inferno thinks about wrestling and the Internet:

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

Or perhaps being gainfully employed.

 

 

Wiki says he's working for TNA.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

They did a TV angle not long ago leading up to his "big comeback" before he was squashed by Abyss.

 

The announcers treated the whole thing like a joke even before the match.

 

I think he was just brought in as a favor to Russo to put some money in his pocket...because I haven't heard his name since.

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

Ah, Nice.

 

[The Buzz 0]

I agree with what he says about the X-Division guys and the selling, and it's pretty easy to tell who has a clue and who doesn't. Jimmy Jacobs, the brusier brody ripoff, he was talking about has improved quite a bit since 2002-2003. Just because he's the Disco Inferno doesn't make his opinion wrong. He was a decent worker during his little mid-card run.

[Jingus 0]

Disco's got some good points here. The 8-second rule and most people not actually paying to watch the PPVs are both common things. I do especially appreciate that he took the time to note that the stereotypical ROHbot-type smart mark that he's describing isn't necessarily the majority of internet fans. There are all kinds of different smark subcultures, from the standard twentysomethings here to the hardcore nerds at DVDVR to the idiot kids at places like Gamefaqs to the old kayfabe-lovin' fossils at Wrestling Classic. Nothing makes me groan harder than hearing a rant from some ignorant worker who logged onto two websites for five minutes and then decided he had the entire IWC's number.

 

But anything else involving Disco: keep in mind that this is a guy who had to be taught how to throw a superkick after he'd been working for a decade (I was terribly amused watching that in the year 2003).

[Nighthawk 0]

You know, selling is overrated. If somebody likes people to do highspots and not sell, give 'em what they want. Now, I don't really consider myself a smart mark, because I don't rate matches or, for lack of a better term, take wrestling seriously. Not that I don't like it, I do.

But, like any business, if you're not stupid, you'll do what sells. So in that sense, it's the fans' fault. Same problem porn had, where it became totally about anal.

[cabbageboy 0]

Selling is the toughest thing to do in wrestling, especially long term selling. In the entire time I've watched wrestling I've only seen maybe 2 guys that really sold long term and had me believing it (Bret Hart in 1994 with his leg, Randy Savage in 1992 with the leg).

 

There needs to be a solid middle ground here. I think what Disco is saying about the X guys and ROH is that the matches follow little rhyme or reason, as in guys are busting out spots left and right but no one is controlling a match. By controlling I mean one guy is on offense for a while, then makes a mistake or the other guy makes his comeback. It's more Guy A does a wild spot, then a few seconds later Guy B hits a spot.

 

Even someone who is criticized for his selling like Rob Van Dam does in fact follow basic match structures in terms of letting his opponent have a large amount of the match, making comebacks, etc. I mention RVD because I think he's kind of the patron saint for all the X Division guys. RVD does take some valid criticism for not selling a specific body part long term (like a leg, since too much of his offense involves a leg), but his bumping and short term selling is awesome.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I just think it's funny that a guy who has never had a match worth really watching can criticize workers for not knowing how to have a good match. A wrestling match is like a movie, and in that sense you can go several different routes: you can do a kung-fu flick (LowKi vs. The Amazing Red), a horror movie (Undertaker vs. Hulk Hogan at SurSer '91, where 'Taker just kept coming), a balls-out action flick (pick any spotfest ever), a comedy (most Santino Marella matches), a very solid thriller (Michaels vs. Jericho, WM19), a "Rocky" type (doesn't even need an example), etc. etc. To say that there is one way to work is wrong, since there are many ways to do any type of art (and yes, wrestling IS an artform). Different types speak to different people, and there are always going to be types that speak to more people than others do. Get over it.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I just think it's funny that a guy who has never had a match worth really watching can criticize workers for not knowing how to have a good match.

 

If you make that point, can you really criticize Disco Inferno for never having a good match if YOU'VE never had a good match?

[Diamonddust 0]

Selling is the toughest thing to do in wrestling, especially long term selling. In the entire time I've watched wrestling I've only seen maybe 2 guys that really sold long term and had me believing it (Bret Hart in 1994 with his leg, Randy Savage in 1992 with the leg).

 

There needs to be a solid middle ground here. I think what Disco is saying about the X guys and ROH is that the matches follow little rhyme or reason, as in guys are busting out spots left and right but no one is controlling a match. By controlling I mean one guy is on offense for a while, then makes a mistake or the other guy makes his comeback. It's more Guy A does a wild spot, then a few seconds later Guy B hits a spot.

 

Even someone who is criticized for his selling like Rob Van Dam does in fact follow basic match structures in terms of letting his opponent have a large amount of the match, making comebacks, etc. I mention RVD because I think he's kind of the patron saint for all the X Division guys. RVD does take some valid criticism for not selling a specific body part long term (like a leg, since too much of his offense involves a leg), but his bumping and short term selling is awesome.

 

Agreed. It's like Jim Cornette said in his first shoot interview -

 

It doesn't matter if you can execute the perfect triple moonsault... if you don't know when to turn up it or when to back up like a chicken shit... it doesn't mean anything.

[majormayhem1 0]

Back when I first started watching wrestling, we had to wait to see what was going to happen until the next week. We would speculate as to what might happen, but there was no way of finding out except to wait. There was a lot of anticipation and one had to be patient. Perhaps it's just a reflection of the society of "instant gratification" that we live in. Fans are always waiting for the next big spot and don't want to be bored with a wear down hold that might make the match better and the next big spot more exciting. Back when I was a kid, we had to wait a year to see a title change hands, compare that to Bob Backlund's six-year title reign, and now if someone has the a title for 4 months they are considered a great champion. The world has changed, fans have changed, and wrestling has changed. The internet is only part of the problem.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I just think it's funny that a guy who has never had a match worth really watching can criticize workers for not knowing how to have a good match.

 

If you make that point, can you really criticize Disco Inferno for never having a good match if YOU'VE never had a good match?

Yes, I can. Because I've spent money on PPVs featuring Glen Gilberti. I'm a paying customer. I have helped him pay his bills, however microscopic of a percentage of a dollar I have inadvertantly given to him. He has never once spent a dime on me, or anything I have been involved in (unless you really want to stretch and talk about the money invested into wrestling school). I actually enjoyed his run in TNA in 2003. Not his matches, but every angle he was involved in at the time I found highly entertaining. But there have been two matches focusing on Disco that I've enjoyed at all, and one was because of Saturn, and the other was because it was an in-the-stands brawl that turned out better than anybody expected.

 

EDIT: That, and I'm not telling him how to do his job. If he were to suddenly come into my office and my warehouse and tell me how to cut 300 feet of 100-pair cat 3 plenum, then I'd criticize how bland his matches are. The business has changed, and for somebody who never succeeded beyond lower-midcard comedy sidekick to rant against people that ARE making names for themselves is humorous to me. That would be like Vin Diesel telling Christian Bale he's a bad actor because he goes to various lengths to get in character rather than do the same old thing every movie: preposterous considering one is very much so better than the other.

[cabbageboy 0]

Actually I can name a very good Disco match: vs. Dean Malenko at Bash at the Beach 1996. Some would probably say Malenko carried him, but Disco did in fact sell like a mofo in that one. So at least he practices what he preaches.

[theintensifier 0]

Is the internet hurting the business? Without a shadow of a doubt it is. There is no surprises left, everything is already known well in advance.

 

However, what does Glenn want, the Crusier's to lay on the mat and sell for a few minutes? What's an acceptable amount of time to sell a blow/move? Obviously, it depends of a lot of things.

 

But, to go off of a tangent like that, and write a rather pointless, and awfully biased diatribe, is ridiculous. There are far bigger fish to fry than poor selling from some indy wrestler in a try out match.

[theintensifier 0]

Another point, he criticises Japanese wrestling. He should re-watch some AJPW pre split, to get a deeper appraciation of Japanese wrestling. Avoid Misawa though.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

First, I would surmise if the business is really hurting. Yes, there are only a few companies operating at any capacity and the indies are a wasteland. But people are certainly spending their money. The problem is that it all goes to one company.

 

What wrestling really lacks, IMO, is solid live business. Worthwhile big shows only come to town at most twice a year.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Is the internet hurting the business? Without a shadow of a doubt it is. There is no surprises left, everything is already known well in advance.

First, the internet has minimal effect on business, either way. The internet fan makes up a very small percentage of the total fanbase. Secondly, how does a lack of surprises hurt the business? If what is planned has enough interest, the people are going to pay to see it, regardless of how many people actually know about it in advance. Surprises are good, but it's a big reach to say that a lack of surprises somehow hurts the business.

[Diamonddust 0]

First, I would surmise if the business is really hurting. Yes, there are only a few companies operating at any capacity and the indies are a wasteland. But people are certainly spending their money. The problem is that it all goes to one company.

 

What wrestling really lacks, IMO, is solid live business. Worthwhile big shows only come to town at most twice a year.

 

That and all the fans know they aren't going to see anything "special" happen at a house show anymore.

[Diamonddust 0]

Is the internet hurting the business? Without a shadow of a doubt it is. There is no surprises left, everything is already known well in advance.

First, the internet has minimal effect on business, either way. The internet fan makes up a very small percentage of the total fanbase. Secondly, how does a lack of surprises hurt the business? If what is planned has enough interest, the people are going to pay to see it, regardless of how many people actually know about it in advance. Surprises are good, but it's a big reach to say that a lack of surprises somehow hurts the business.

 

Agreed...

 

Mick Foley winning the World Title on a taped edition of Raw and having the results out there a week in advance surely didn't hurt that episode.

[The Buzz 0]

Disco was good for what he was. I mean I don't think he was a good wrestler, but he wasn't bad either. I think he could do some cool stuff in the ring, and really knew how to play the character he played. Bobby Heenan's commentary during his matches always made him seem like he was a good wrestler who could win more if only he'd stop dancing. I wouldn't mind a guy like him being in the mid-card of either company right now.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The internet should be looked at as more of a tool by both companies to generate interest and promote their product. I mean, look at how much buzz movies get now from the internet, before they even have previews in theaters. Maybe if WWE and TNA worked more with the internet instead of trying to fight it, they would be doing better business.

[NoCalMike 0]

So maybe the answer is to give X-division/Cruiserweights more then five minutes to have a match.

 

If you watch Rey vs. Juvi at Big Ass Extreme Bash in 1996, the match started slowly, picked up speed, and then turned into a high-spot trading show for the last five minutes or so. Of course, that match was given the proper amount of time to build and climax properly. Of course, I am just a stupid IWF because my praise of this match would mean I feel Paul Heyman knew how to competently book a match...

 

Well plus the fact that this article is about 5-8 years too late in it's criticisms. WWE ME'ers do plenty of non-selling, just because they wait more then 8 seconds to suddenly "kip-up" or "hulk-up" or "rise from the dead" and suddenly have the use of said body part that was worked over for ten minutes, doesn't mean they are doing a great job of selling.

 

I would say the fact that the WWE and a company that can't settle on an identity, being the only viable free options is what is hurting the business. The internet sure didn't seem to hurt business at all in 1996-2002, when there were three companies big enough for the mainstream to watch on a weekly basis, and they all offered somewhat of a different vision for prowrestling. I can remember being in highschool in 96-98, and having all the "super secret suprises" ruined for me and my friends because of the internet and it didn't make one damn difference, we still couldn't wait to tune in because the product was compelling and fun to watch. If I knew someone was jumping ship ahead of time it wanted to make me watch that much more to see what they would do/say in their debut. It seems wrestlers can't make up their minds on whether the internet wrestling community is too "miniscule to matter" or if it is "hurting the business"