Monday Night Wars

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

A thread for ongoing discussion of Monday Night Raw on 24/7.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

A thread for ongoing discussion of WCW Monday Nitro. Could this be the greatest thread in the history of our forum?

[Aero 0]

I never started actively paying attention to WCW until around Halloween Havoc 97. Even if I was as much of a mark for WCW as I was the WWF around this time, I still wouldn't have believed them when they said they were going to have half the main events they claimed they would on Nitro. This week of course has Hogan & Rodman vs. Luger & Giant, but I'm sure there are many more to come. Love seeing the garbage barrage end Nitro just about every week, though.

[Detox 0]

I had never seen the 6/16 1997 episode of WWF Raw and shit was that crazy, the lighting was horrible, but I really enjoyed it. How often do they switch the episodes of Nitro and RAW? I really did not understand how much content that is available. I have Charter and the content is only available on my HD box, can I call and get it on my other cable boxes?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I had never seen the 6/16 1997 episode of WWF Raw and shit was that crazy, the lighting was horrible, but I really enjoyed it. How often do they switch the episodes of Nitro and RAW? I really did not understand how much content that is available. I have Charter and the content is only available on my HD box, can I call and get it on my other cable boxes?

They move ahead every 2-3 weeks with new shows. You should be able to have the shows available on all your boxes. When I called my cable company to subscribe, they asked if I wanted programming on each cable box.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I was really amused at how during the main event, JR and Vince just started naming every black wrestler they could think of as the possible 2nd new member for the Nation. "How about Abdullah the Butcher!".

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I watched some of the pre-Mania 18 Raw last night before falling asleep - man, like bob said, it is unintentionally funny at times. All the smoke during the opening match from the pryo was just as bad as I remember it being live. Kurt Angle's promo with Edge and Booker was pretty amusing. I was also amazed at just how loud the crowd seemed to come across - are today's crowds really quiet now? They just seemed so hot during the opener. The clips of Ric Flair punching a fan (Paul London) and getting arrested are amusing too.

[Aero 0]

I'm sure it was talked about when it actually happened in 2002, but the Flair/McMahon/Board of Directors story makes NO SENSE. Sure, I suppose Flair's actions were pretty embarrassing for the company, but when McMahon just said he was trying to kill the company with the nWo no less than a month earlier (not to mention all the other crazy McMahon shenanigans from previous years), you just say WTF?

[Nate 0]

I'm sure it was talked about when it actually happened in 2002, but the Flair/McMahon/Board of Directors story makes NO SENSE. Sure, I suppose Flair's actions were pretty embarrassing for the company, but when McMahon just said he was trying to kill the company with the nWo no less than a month earlier (not to mention all the other crazy McMahon shenanigans from previous years), you just say WTF?

 

now that you bring that up, I was thinking why didnt Flair present his side as to why he should be the 100 percent owner of the WWE at that time

[Darth Pipes 0]

I'm sure it was talked about when it actually happened in 2002, but the Flair/McMahon/Board of Directors story makes NO SENSE. Sure, I suppose Flair's actions were pretty embarrassing for the company, but when McMahon just said he was trying to kill the company with the nWo no less than a month earlier (not to mention all the other crazy McMahon shenanigans from previous years), you just say WTF?

 

now that you bring that up, I was thinking why didnt Flair present his side as to why he should be the 100 percent owner of the WWE at that time

 

I was saying this myself. This storyline made no sense. Flair offers no defense whatsoever and just its there. The Board of Directors suspends him for deciding to get back into the ring, ignoring all the times Vince had gotten into the ring the past three years. Not to mention the fact that Vince admitted to actively tring to kill his own company. Just plain stupid.

 

Speaking of Vince...that's the one storyline they've never done. Do a storyline where Vince completely loses control of the company. No power, no nothing. He has to start from the beginning. I think WCW did this with Bischoff. But I would love to see a storyline where Vince just goes around being the bitch of everyone. He used to be the cowardly heel owner but over the years he then transformed himself into the indestructable badass owner that everyone cowers down too. I've never enjoyed that.

 

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

After try #3 I finally finished that 2002 Raw. Did Nash have something in his contract about having his opponents try to avoid contact with him? Austin and Rock's punches looked fine with Hall but are the fakest thing on the show when they start slugging Nash in the face. I take it Nash has some blame in this too but wow, I never realized how awful that looked until now (I hadn't paid attention to it much previously but there was a quote going on around on IRC about how "Rock's punches are so lightning fast Nash is selling them a foot in front of his face!").

[spman 0]

So I haven't gotten around to watching it yet, but apparently they've FINALLY stopped editing Benoit out of these shows starting with this weeks episode.

[RonL21 0]

I remember watching the first episode when I was like 10..

The first of many times People would leave the WWF and show up

on Nitro within hours. Seeing Lex Luger gave me the face

[Nate 0]

So I haven't gotten around to watching it yet, but apparently they've FINALLY stopped editing Benoit out of these shows starting with this weeks episode.

 

for real, thats cool they just said to hell with what happened and just let it be

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, if you watch it there's really no feasible way to edit him out. You can't get rid of the whole crucial Piper/Flair segment in the ring or the Horsemen beatdown of Piper that followed. Once I see a Benoit match on 24/7, I'll figure that they aren't editing him anymore.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I think going forward, the idea will be to keep him in non-wrestling segments but still edit out his matches.

[tapout 0]

Benoit had a little bit of mic time in that segment. Thats why the camera pans the crowd before the beatdown on Piper.

[Jericholic82 0]

That was so weird to actually see Benoit on 24/7, so they edit his comments, yet let Tony say "crippler crossface"?

 

I'm confused

[Jericholic82 0]

sorry about the double post.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think they were waiting for the whole Benoit/Woman/Sullivan storyline to finish before putting Benoit back on a show. Seeing him with Woman on TV might be a bit creepy now, so on that level I can see why they cut that stuff.

[Jericholic82 0]

I think they were waiting for the whole Benoit/Woman/Sullivan storyline to finish before putting Benoit back on a show. Seeing him with Woman on TV might be a bit creepy now, so on that level I can see why they cut that stuff.

if that's the case it's not too long, Benoit "retires" Sullivan at Bash At The Beach. Though woman was gone by this point IIRC.

 

 

but if that was the case, they wouldn't have edited Benoit off the Ladder Match dvd on 24/7, or him off the Collision in Korea PPv.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

So is this Ken Shamrock's 12th theme or so, or is it just so generic I don't recognize it when I hear it again? I'm not positive (and I hope it's not the case) but the theme on this episode had a hint of the "dubbed over theme" sound quality to it - I hope they didn't lose the rights to "The Ultimate" because I love that theme and thought he was using it by now. Not a HUGE loss or anything, but we'll see.

 

Speaking of Shamrock, this is the episode I was waiting for since I first heard Vince hyping up UFC - I distinctly remembered a bit of commentary where Vince put over how no one has ever died in UFC but boxing AND wrestling can't say the same, but as Ken had been around for some time now I thought maybe that was one of those things I imagined. Well, there it was - Vince McMahon, on a program being rebroadcast in 2008, talking about UFC falling on hard times due to the ignorance of people trying to get it banned. It's just funny to me.

[cabbageboy 0]

That is certainly ironic looking back. I had never heard of the UFC at all until Shamrock showed up on WWF TV, it was just something of an underground thing that if you weren't into it you wouldn't know much about it. Vince putting over the UFC actually may have gotten them on the map with a more mainstream crowd, and in retrospect I wonder if he wished he hadn't put them over.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Yeah, they were really putting over the UFC and their history with that Shamrock match, and Severn on commentary.

 

Also, what the fuck was Ahmed Johnson thinking when he wore that outfit to the ring? Are you serious? A gay looking black tank top unbuttoned, with black spandex tights tucked into white sweatsocks.......and then to top it off the guy wears a fanny pack also. People wonder why he didn't get over as a heel, when he comes out looking like a ballerina in black, and has the tackiest and gayest outfit ever for a "tough guy"

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I knew Ahmed was injured before Canadian Stampede, but I didn't remember that he injured himself in his FIRST HEEL SEGMENT at the top of the show doing a standard brawl with the debuting DOA. What a character that guy was.

 

I enjoyed the first triple threat match. Seeing Owen get the clean pinfall on HHH that he never got as a face during the European title feud was nice. I also liked seeing the spot where Chyna gave Goldust the 'rana - that was another one of those "I SWEAR this really happened, but the Goldust / HHH feud is done and I didn't see it, so I must have imagined it" moments that ended up being a correct memory.

 

The table not co-operating with Sabu is great every time I see it. Visually, the way he hits Flash Funk with his first dive and just rolls off of him without the table breaking is great and his immediate improv move of a standing splash looks nice too. I believe this is the last ECW deal on Raw and I can't help but wonder if Heyman's comments about Bischoff and Nitro (which were amusingly ignored by JR and Vince - they didn't even do that cute "Anything can happen in the World Wrestling Federation on live television" bit) helped end it, or if it was already dead due to RVD's attitude anyway.

 

I re-watched Vince talking about UFC when I was FF'ing to the triple threat match (I had only watched up to that point on Sunday night), as funny as it was to hear him talk about ignorance towards UFC, hearing him say "professional wrestling" was pretty funny too in a weird way.

 

A more subtle note, I thought it was a nice touch to hear them put over weekend house shows. "We'll be having another triple threat match at this weekend's live events", "Bret Hart will return to in-ring action this Saturday night in San Jose", etc.

[cabbageboy 0]

The amazing thing is that on the ECW end that whole WWF oriented feud lasted until N2R 97! Bear in mind the angle is dying on Raw and this is like June/July, yet Heyman kept doing it on his end until November when they did the RVD/Dreamer blowoff.

 

 

[bob_barron 0]

I liked RAW this week. Aside from the Dusty finish, the triple threat was really good.

 

I loved Owen complaining and whining to Gorilla about Pillman being allowed in his corner, and Gorilla has no problem with it, yet Owen keeps demanding it.

 

Ahmed getting injured was hilarious

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The amazing thing is that on the ECW end that whole WWF oriented feud lasted until N2R 97! Bear in mind the angle is dying on Raw and this is like June/July, yet Heyman kept doing it on his end until November when they did the RVD/Dreamer blowoff.

 

Which if my memory of seeing the match on the RVD DVD is correct, was blown-off by the "WWF" side winning due to Furnas and Lafon helping RVD... how did things get reset to normal?

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't really remember much about it....I think everyone simply realized RVD was staying in ECW and it was goofy for him to constantly pimp the WWF (especially when he had his chance to leave when he appeared on Raw, but didn't).

 

Sure, the "WWF" side won but in reality it was Heyman blowing off that stale angle and giving RVD the win to prepare him for a major push in 1998. And really that was what the initial angle was all about, Van Dam feeling like Heyman was screwing him and that he wanted a bigger opportunity.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Can anyone confirm if this was Ahmed's one and only appearance with the Nation? I said earlier I didn't remember much, if anything, he did after joining the Nation. Seeing him get hurt in his first appearance with the group would explain a lot of that. We aren't too far off from The Rock joining, are we? I seem to remember it happening during the summer.