Monday Night Wars

[Bigelow34 0]

I didn't realize Jarrett was on WCW TV so close to his WWF return. Not sure if he is on this new one since I haven't watched it yet, but he was on the prior week. that was a quick jump. A lot of people credit X-Pac as being the first guy to jump back to the WWF but it was Jarrett and he did so on his own whereas Waltman was fired.

[Enigma 0]

I didn't realize Jarrett was on WCW TV so close to his WWF return. Not sure if he is on this new one since I haven't watched it yet, but he was on the prior week. that was a quick jump. A lot of people credit X-Pac as being the first guy to jump back to the WWF but it was Jarrett and he did so on his own whereas Waltman was fired.

 

It goes farther than that. Jarrett was actually booked on the Halloween Havoc '97 show to face Steve McMichael. When Jarrett jumped back to the WWF, Alex Wright replaced Jarrett in the angle and became Debra's new man. That's how unexpected Jarrett's jump was.

 

But I don't know how they didn't expect it. Bischoff went on an Internet chat and made some allusions that he wasn't re-signing Jarrett or wouldn't pay him nearly as much. Regardless, he treated Jarrett very unprofessionally, which is what led him to go back to the WWF. That's where the part of Jarrett's return promo where he mentions Bischoff "hiding behind his keyboard" came from.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The October 13th Nitro has a segment where Debra confirms rumours that Jarrett left WCW. Mongo calls him a quitter but Debra promises a surprise for him at Halloween Havoc. Is there where the Goldberg/McMichael feud started?

 

Edit: Guess not.

[Darth Vader 0]

Sounds like it's coming close to the Nitro where Hogan drops a fake Sting dummy from the rafters and acts like some terrible accident has occured then starts laughing. I wonder if that gets edited out.

[Jericholic82 0]

Sounds like it's coming close to the Nitro where Hogan drops a fake Sting dummy from the rafters and acts like some terrible accident has occured then starts laughing. I wonder if that gets edited out.

That already aired, I think it was an aug or sept 97 episode. They did kinda edit it a bit though.

Yea Goldberg did get involved in the Mongo-Wright Havoc match and took Mongo's SuperBowl ring as "payment" from Debra. This led to a match being booked for WW3 97, but Mongo attacked Goldberg backstage before the match. The match ended up occurring at Starrcade, Goldberg won, his biggest win to that point.

[cabbageboy 0]

Man, that Raw was one for the ages. The actual formation of DX is on this show, and these antics I dare say hold up better now than they did at the time. This show also had a fun early Tajiri match vs. Brian Christopher that I didn't even remember.

 

But wow, that Cornette rant bashing Phil Mushnick was what truly stood out to me. He ranted on Mushnick's call for a Congressional hearing on the deaths of pro wrestlers in the wake of Pillman's death, which in hindsight frankly makes Mushnick look right and WWE wrong. I also was amused by a couple of Cornette's quotes from Mushnick about WCW: "Ted Turner donated a billion dollars to charity, but a bigger act of charity would be if he closed down WCW." "WCW is only being kept alive by the fringe elements of society." Hilarious stuff.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Man, that Raw was one for the ages. The actual formation of DX is on this show, and these antics I dare say hold up better now than they did at the time. This show also had a fun early Tajiri match vs. Brian Christopher that I didn't even remember.

 

But wow, that Cornette rant bashing Phil Mushnick was what truly stood out to me. He ranted on Mushnick's call for a Congressional hearing on the deaths of pro wrestlers in the wake of Pillman's death, which in hindsight frankly makes Mushnick look right and WWE wrong. I also was amused by a couple of Cornette's quotes from Mushnick about WCW: "Ted Turner donated a billion dollars to charity, but a bigger act of charity would be if he closed down WCW." "WCW is only being kept alive by the fringe elements of society." Hilarious stuff.

 

This is exactly what I meant by saying how sad it was in hindsight. The whole business is about sticking up for the boys and that sort of thing, and you can tell Cornette was really hurt and offended that the death of a friend would be used by a columnist who seemingly takes joy in bashing wrestling and wrestling fans as the impetus for a Congressional Hearing. It was an effective rant though - I had never heard of Phil Mushnick but I was sure I hated him forever after it (and Sam and Irv too, just for almost having the same last name).

[bob_barron 0]

Here's an injury update on Randy Savage:

 

Who cares!

 

ahahhahaha

 

Man, Tony was awesome back in the day.

 

Watching Dean v. Rey- oh man, Eddy is awesome.

[bob_barron 0]

This Nitro has one of the best endings ever

[franchise632 0]

Man, that Raw was one for the ages. The actual formation of DX is on this show, and these antics I dare say hold up better now than they did at the time. This show also had a fun early Tajiri match vs. Brian Christopher that I didn't even remember.

 

But wow, that Cornette rant bashing Phil Mushnick was what truly stood out to me. He ranted on Mushnick's call for a Congressional hearing on the deaths of pro wrestlers in the wake of Pillman's death, which in hindsight frankly makes Mushnick look right and WWE wrong. I also was amused by a couple of Cornette's quotes from Mushnick about WCW: "Ted Turner donated a billion dollars to charity, but a bigger act of charity would be if he closed down WCW." "WCW is only being kept alive by the fringe elements of society." Hilarious stuff.

 

I wish comcast didn't suck so hard so that I could actually see this!!!

 

[Boner Kawanger 0]

Agreeing with everything Bob said. Despite Raw having the official formation of DX, nearly everything on Nitro was infinitely better. Including Goldberg dropping Scotty Riggs dick first onto the guardrail. I guess his one-eyed monster was hurting long before his regular eye.

 

Although Raw does a better job of bringing up Assault on Devil's Island.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Phil Musnick is a sport reporter for the NY Post and he used to write for TV Guide. He's been a long-time critic of the WWE and particularly Vince McMahon. He's a whiny, little ***** who complains about everything on TV that's even a little risque, leading many to wonder if the only shows he watches are on PBS. I think he was even very critical of the now defunct Mike and the Mad Dog Show and they both couldn't stand him. Though I can't say he was wrong to suggest congressional hearings for wrestling.

[WWE247FanaticSeries 0]

The Army of Stings!

[Ravenbomb 0]

I finally caved and got 24/7. I didn't watch wrestling until I think the Raw before Survivor Series '98, so it's fun going back and watching these shows.

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

This Nitro has one of the best endings ever

 

Is this the Nitro with the army of fake Stings attacking the nWo, with the real Sting disguising himself as a fake? Because if it is, then yeah, that was a terrific ending.

 

The one thing that I remember from that is the crowd EXPLODING when Sting no sold Buff Bagwell's punch. They went nuts when Sting gave Bagwell the Scorpion Deathdrop and then took off his mask to reveal himself to the nWo. Hollywood Hulk Hogan had a great expression on his face when he saw Sting. WCW turned Sting into a mythic superhero during that time period.

[Diamonddust 0]

This Nitro has one of the best endings ever

 

Is this the Nitro with the army of fake Stings attacking the nWo, with the real Sting disguising himself as a fake? Because if it is, then yeah, that was a terrific ending.

 

The one thing that I remember from that is the crowd EXPLODING when Sting no sold Buff Bagwell's punch. They went nuts when Sting gave Bagwell the Scorpion Deathdrop and then took off his mask to reveal himself to the nWo. Hollywood Hulk Hogan had a great expression on his face when he saw Sting. WCW turned Sting into a mythic superhero during that time period.

 

And it's down right mind numbing to see how quickly they cut his legs out from under him.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah, the eventual realization of what happened with Sting prevents me from marking out while watching these shows. To be honest I don't recall caring much at the time either. It was more of a feeling like "Oh, so Sting is FINALLY going to actually wrestle and earn his money and challenge Hogan?"

[The Truthiness 0]

To be honest I don't recall caring much at the time either. It was more of a feeling like "Oh, so Sting is FINALLY going to actually wrestle and earn his money and challenge Hogan?"

 

So, you didn't understand why Sting didn't wrestle for a year?

 

 

[zappafrank 0]

After reading John Petrie's recaps, I have to say it sure would be nice if 24/7 had left the lucha reports in. Did they use AAA footage or something that they only had b/c of the association with Konnan, etc?

[cabbageboy 0]

Sure, I understood that Sting was being a whiny bitch and sulked in the rafters for a YEAR while all of his friends got their asses kicked by the NWO. How did people ever fall for that angle for such a long period of time? It's the epitome of smoke and mirrors booking, where a guy literally does nothing (doesn't wrestle, doesn't cut promos) and is the most over guy in the promotion.

 

Watching these old Nitros has soured me on that whole angle. Especially at the point where Dillon offered Sting contracts vs. Syxx and then Hennig, but Sting refuses and only wants Hogan. Silly JJ Dillon, he actually wanted the guy to wrestle a few matches to become #1 contender!

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

After reading John Petrie's recaps, I have to say it sure would be nice if 24/7 had left the lucha reports in. Did they use AAA footage or something that they only had b/c of the association with Konnan, etc?

 

I only recall reading about the segments where they would talk to Rey and his uncle (for exaple) and those remain.

[The Truthiness 0]

Sure, I understood that Sting was being a whiny bitch and sulked in the rafters for a YEAR while all of his friends got their asses kicked by the NWO. How did people ever fall for that angle for such a long period of time? It's the epitome of smoke and mirrors booking, where a guy literally does nothing (doesn't wrestle, doesn't cut promos) and is the most over guy in the promotion.

 

Watching these old Nitros has soured me on that whole angle. Especially at the point where Dillon offered Sting contracts vs. Syxx and then Hennig, but Sting refuses and only wants Hogan. Silly JJ Dillon, he actually wanted the guy to wrestle a few matches to become #1 contender!

 

His friends had accused him of being a turncoat. Luger his best friend, had even accused him, this was the year after Sting backed Luger when the whole company was against him. Sting had been the heart of WCW for close to 10 years, and the company turned on him, so he said "Fuck'em". Sting was in the right, everybody else had been a selfish prick up to that point, and Sting was more then right to let WCW get the shit beat out of them for a year, by Hogan and the NWO. Hell, after Hogan came, Sting was pushed aside and never bitched about it, but NWO spreads a lie about him, which Sting denies, and WCW then basically calls him a liar. Yeah, Sting was in the right not to fight for WCW for a while.

 

The fact that you looked so deep in to that storyline and just assumed Sting was a pussy, proves you are incapable of enjoying anything.

[Enigma 0]

And don't forget, at the start of that angle, Sting was attacking WCW people too. I remember him specifically Death Dropping Jeff Jarrett, Rick Steiner, and Jim Duggan.

 

But I have to agree with Truthiness. This angle was not rocket science. If you couldn't understand why Sting was doing what he was doing in the storyline, I wouldn't be admitting it to people.

[rezinda 0]

So I see a bunch of people complain about how they used Sting with his eventual return. I assume mostly everyone is pissed with the outcome of the Starrcade finish. Do you think if Bret stayed in WWF, WCW would've went with a clean finish?

 

It just seems that maybe they were trying too fast to get Bret into the spotlight & screwed up what could've been perfect timing to get the belt on Sting.

 

Plus, Bret went right on to feud with Flair after that so it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be involved. But, this is WCW so sense was not a high priority.

[KingPK 0]

Did Randy Anderson fuck up the DDP/Hennig ending on purpose in order to get Piper back out to set up the end of the show or was it just a typical WCW-style botch?

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

Sure, I understood that Sting was being a whiny bitch and sulked in the rafters for a YEAR while all of his friends got their asses kicked by the NWO. How did people ever fall for that angle for such a long period of time?

 

Probably because Sting was built as the only person who could take out the entire nWo, and the one man Hogan was afraid of fighting. The fans KNEW whenever Sting showed up that he was going to be the superhero and save the day, and they loved him for it.

 

Watching these old Nitros has soured me on that whole angle. Especially at the point where Dillon offered Sting contracts vs. Syxx and then Hennig, but Sting refuses and only wants Hogan. Silly JJ Dillon, he actually wanted the guy to wrestle a few matches to become #1 contender!

 

What was wrong with that? Sting's mortal enemy was Hogan, not Curt Hennig or Syxx. Why should he fight Hennig or Syxx when his main goal was to destroy Hogan?

 

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

And don't forget, at the start of that angle, Sting was attacking WCW people too. I remember him specifically Death Dropping Jeff Jarrett, Rick Steiner, and Jim Duggan.

 

I always assumed that that was just Sting testing people's loyalty to him. He was always loyal to WCW, but he wasn't sure WCW was loyal to him. Remember when he would hand guys his baseball bat and then turn his back to see if they would hit him? I know he did that with Rick Steiner and Lex Luger once.

 

[Diamonddust 0]

So I see a bunch of people complain about how they used Sting with his eventual return. I assume mostly everyone is pissed with the outcome of the Starrcade finish. Do you think if Bret stayed in WWF, WCW would've went with a clean finish?

 

It just seems that maybe they were trying too fast to get Bret into the spotlight & screwed up what could've been perfect timing to get the belt on Sting.

 

Plus, Bret went right on to feud with Flair after that so it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be involved. But, this is WCW so sense was not a high priority.

 

The finish wasn't as bad as the actual match in which Hogan made Sting look like a chump.

 

With the way that match was built (And the ass-kissing they gave Hogan right before Starrcade), Sting should have MURDERED Hogan in that match. Instead, he was made to look ineffective, and his momentum was absolutely destroyed. It didn't help that they basically held the title belt up right after that.

[Jericholic82 0]

Assume they didn't screw up the Starrcade match, where does Sting go from there? All the mystique is gone as soon as he wrestles a match. I'm just saying that over time, I feel indifferent about that matter. But at the time, yea I fell hard for the angle and couldn't wait for Sting to destroy Hogan.

 

As for the 10/13 RAW, I enjoyed reliving it. The DX stuff was fun, and actually still felt edgy now (unlike the recent DX reunions). I loved when Rude announced Shawn as "The Pecan" and Shawn's reaction.

I assume next week is where DX frames the Foundation for vandalizing the NOD's lockeroom?

[cabbageboy 0]

To back up a bit, yes I know exactly what WCW was trying to say with the Sting angle. And yes, the initial angle was really excellent stuff with Sting being accused. The problem is that it went on forever. The reason I mention the Dillon angle with the contracts is that I firmly agreed with Hogan and Bischoff on that one: A man who hasn't wrestled in nearly a year has zero business making demands for a title shot. This sort of angle works better when the face has to go through some lower level guys to get to the boss heel. WCW never grasped that simple aspect of booking. Sting needed to beat the crap out of a bunch of lower level NWO thugs and get to Hogan (in matches, not just attacking people).

 

The reality is still this. Sting's heat would have died a quick death even if he beat Hogan in 5 minutes clean. They still would have had the same goofy schmozz that led to him jobbing to Macho, and Macho still would have jobbed it right back to Hogan, so the end result by March 1998 would have been the same. Hogan would have had the belt again, and now Sting would be wrestling again and not be anywhere near as special.

 

I can understand the frustration over the Starrcade finish, but not the actual match so much. What did anyone expect? Was WCW really supposed to book a 5 minute squash as the main event of their biggest PPV ever?