OAO Raw Thread 6/23/08

[Quasar 0]

To be honest, it's endings and elaborate, over the top storylines that get ratings...not two superstars "competing" to see who's the better wrestler.

 

Glad to see you're back on the board, Mr. Russo.

 

If only Andre and Hogan involved some exploding boats and bastard dwarfs, maybe people would have went to see that match.

 

Not to argue Mr. Classic but you certainly took his point in the FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR opposite direction.

 

Think about it this way, wrestling booms spark not from mat classics but from non-wrestling angles. May I remind you that D-Generation X and Austin vs. McMahon involved more out of the ring shenanigans than in-ring broadways?

 

To go back to your Andre/Hogan point, Andre vs. Hogan was the peak of a boom period started by the involvement of Mr. T, Cyndi Lauper and MTV. I'd even argue that Hogan's own in-ring deficiencies would be proof that straight out "wrestling" doesn't draw modern audiences. But anyway, the star of Hogan grew through MTV. Remember how Hogan escorted Lauper to the Grammy's? Hogan became a bonafide mainstream celebrity during this period.

 

During this time of the inflated audience, Hogan and Andre were built up as THE MEN! They were unstoppable so when it came time to square off, fans were interested in seeing it. It was that simple. Hogan/Andre WAS based on who was the best wrestler but to achieve the 93,000+ in Pontiac, MI, it took out of ring theatrics to draw them in.

[King Kamala 0]

There's a thin line between over the top and elaborate and cartoonish and stupid and tonight's angle crossed it. I'm all for over the top and elaborate angles but tonight was just downright awful.

 

And do I really need to remind you of Russo's track record with WCW and TNA?

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Kennedy is one of the few guys I can actually tell is off the juice

[Perfection 0]

This was interesting I thought. Was talking to a friend of mine who's 7 year old is obsessed with wrestling and she said he was absolutely pissed about Jr being moved off raw. She said he threw an absolute fit. I thought that was pretty cool and funny since it's assumed that the older fans are the ones who appreciate/love ross the most.

 

the mcmahon angle must be generating a lot of buzz..lot of the wrestling sites are really slow at the moment so say what you will...he got what he wanted it seemed, people talking.

[Quasar 0]

There's a thin line between over the top and elaborate and cartoonish and stupid and tonight's angle crossed it. I'm all for over the top and elaborate angles but tonight was just downright awful.

 

And do I really need to remind you of Russo's track record with WCW and TNA?

 

Vince Russo is a very creative man but abysmal without someone to throw his shit ideas out. His track record in the WWF speaks for that.

 

Though, I may be one of the few that enjoyed TNA in 2003.

[Hawk 34 0]

The point is that you have always been able to draw people in with characters and personalities. TNA does all the stunts they want but it doesn't get them anywhere. WWE did big business with the Russo because of the characters they developed. Guys like Austin and Rock were as equally transcendant as Hogan and Andre were in the 80's. Andre and Hogan drew because of the immensity of their personas. Ratings aren't going to skyrocket with this new storyline with Vince.

 

A key reason for the shift in viewing to the new attitude era is that it was such a departure from everything professional wrestling once was. However, that has passed. Instead, these stunts are merely poor efforts to recapture that aura that is no longer around.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Hopefully no wrestlers get paralyzed forcing Vince to abandon this storyline.

 

WWE.com has learned that former Intercontinental and European Champion D-Lo Brown has signed a Superstar contract with WWE.

[King Kamala 0]

Really, Russo like storylines are just as outdated now as Rock N Wrestling type era storylines. They were great in their time but I'm not sure they'd work now and I'm positive they wouldn't work to the extent that they did ten years ago.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

What I take from tonight is that Raw and SD! are going to be treated more like equals. HHH and to a lesser extent Jim Ross were moved to signify that very thing. I bet JR felt better about moving to SD! after HHH made the switch as well.

 

Raw's upper card has Cena, Batista, Jericho, HBK, JBL, Randy Orton, Kane

SD! upper card has Edge, HHH, Undertaker, Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Big Show

 

SD! looks stagnant at first look. I guess I'd go with HHH vs MVP initially while UT and Edge finish their program. Maybe with Umaga vs Big Show or something when both are built up.

 

 

[Quasar 0]

The point is that you have always been able to draw people in with characters and personalities. TNA does all the stunts they want but it doesn't get them anywhere. WWE did big business with the Russo because of the characters they developed. Guys like Austin and Rock were as equally transcendant as Hogan and Andre were in the 80's. Andre and Hogan drew because of the immensity of their personas. Ratings aren't going to skyrocket with this new storyline with Vince.

 

A key reason for the shift in viewing to the new attitude era is that it was such a departure from everything professional wrestling once was. However, that has passed. Instead, these stunts are merely poor efforts to recapture that aura that is no longer around.

 

 

WWE's main problem is that the production is stale as all hell. We've had basically the same production setup since 1997. Watch a RAW from 1997 and then 2008 and you see little difference production wise. Now, watch a WWF event from 1987 and then 1998 and you see a world of difference. Hell, compare ANY 11 year period in WWF history and you see a FAR larger difference than 1997-2008.

 

If WWE can change production up and catch up with the mainstream, they'd maybe hit another boom. The WWF caught on in 1985 by latching onto MTV and then again in 1998 by latching onto the Jerry Springer Trash TV fad.

 

But what CAN WWE latch onto now?

 

[Wally Balls 0]

A key reason for the shift in viewing to the new attitude era is that it was such a departure from everything professional wrestling once was. However, that has passed. Instead, these stunts are merely poor efforts to recapture that aura that is no longer around.

 

 

It might not change the ratings intially, but I do think that angles like this are a good start in the direction that WWE needs to head in if they want to continue to make money and stay in the mainstream (if it still is).

 

If WWE weren't on TV, if it was just live events, then yes, there wouldn't be a need for these elaborate angles. However, drama and comedy are the two oldest forms of entertainment when it comes to theatre, so its only natural that just about every show on televison right now has some sort of comedic or dramatic aspect to it.

 

Also, if this were a legit sport, then it wouldn't need the theatrics, but like I said, its a televison program first. It needs the extra drama and comic relief to stay afloat.

[bob_barron 0]

Kennedy is one of the few guys I can actually tell is off the juice

 

Meltzer keeps speculating that there's something wrong with his shoulder

[ChrisMWaters 0]

A friend of mine says that he thinks Regal did it to Vince.

[cabbageboy 0]

Kwai, the Russo shows were drawing that much but bear in mind the Kreski stuff did as well or better in 2000 and most of that was HHH and The Rock fighting over who was the better man. And one major difference is that the PPV buyrates were up in 2000 with more wrestling centered shows, but they had a better roster then anyway.

 

Tonight's show was bizarre. For a while I figured Jeff might get a push on SD but the last pick (HHH) basically means Jeff gets nowhere further than he is right now, and HHH gets to finally get his rocks off by burying Edge. I thought Cena would be the last pick.

 

Some of these were pretty obvious: Batista and Punk to Raw were easy since both were played out. Matt going to ECW...I feel sorry for the guy. Hopefully he won't have anything bad happen to him, like a major injury or being released, etc.

 

Where does UT really fit into any of this? I can't see him on SD at this point with HHH moving to that show, so maybe he returns on Raw and they can build to him vs. Cena or HBK.

[strummer 0]

I would agree that all the moves tonight finally makes way for some fresh programs which is what the company desperately needs

[Wally Balls 0]

Kwai, the Russo shows were drawing that much but bear in mind the Kreski stuff did as well or better in 2000 and most of that was HHH and The Rock fighting over who was the better man. And one major difference is that the PPV buyrates were up in 2000 with more wrestling centered shows, but they had a better roster then anyway.

 

True, but keep in mind that 2000 also had "Who ran down Austin?" and I think that, more than anything else, was the focal point of that year for the WWE.

[cheetoe 0]

A friend of mine says that he thinks Regal did it to Vince.

 

 

That would be one of the few things that might make this angle really, really good.

 

[Dandy 0]

Kennedy is one of the few guys I can actually tell is off the juice

 

Meltzer keeps speculating that there's something wrong with his shoulder

I have always remarked that one of his shoulders juts forward or the other one juts out, depending on which way you would look at the situation. When he walks to the ring with the sleeves cut off his t-shirt, you can really tell it. Is that similar to what Meltzer is saying?

[Quasar 0]

Kwai, the Russo shows were drawing that much but bear in mind the Kreski stuff did as well or better in 2000 and most of that was HHH and The Rock fighting over who was the better man. And one major difference is that the PPV buyrates were up in 2000 with more wrestling centered shows, but they had a better roster then anyway.

 

2000 wasn't all ROH-like either. Look at the beginning of 2000, you had Triple H and Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley running wild with the McMahon-Helmsley Era then HHH retaining at WrestleMania 2000 when Vince McMahon gives his seal of approval. The HHH/Rock feud then moved into "Can Rock overcome the odds?" by having Shane be the ref at Backlash but Rock retained and then an angle where Shawn Michaels may or may not have seen The Undertaker tombstone HHH at Judgment Day. Then you had The Rock pinning Vince McMahon to become WWF Champion at King of the Ring.

 

Then you had the HHH/Angle/Steph love triangle angle while The Rock and Chris Benoit had something resembling a wrestling feud. Of course, RAW was dominated by the love triangle angle.

 

 

After the end of the love triangle, you had "WHODUNNIT?"................

[The Tino Standard 0]

I've seen a few people mention Undertaker being part of the revamped SD upper card. With him getting written out by being "fired" off SD, am I the only one seeing him coming to Raw? You still get the Cena-Undertaker match at WM25 that a lot of people were talking about, only now it's a Raw brand match.

[garfieldsnose 0]

Depends, they can't go with the jump to RAW cuz he got kicked out of SD story because the storyline was he has to leave the WWE all together. It'll be an interesting storyline to bring him back and try to justify it.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I'm glad to hear Mysterio is finally on RAW. That was actually my guess for last year's draft so yay to me for being a year off.

 

I wonder if HHH will actually work SD again this time or pussy out again like a couple of years ago.

[Boxer 0]

I can't wait to see the Smackdown spoilers now. That'll be an interesting read.

[Hawk 34 0]

Depends, they can't go with the jump to RAW cuz he got kicked out of SD story because the storyline was he has to leave the WWE all together. It'll be an interesting storyline to bring him back and try to justify it.

 

They'll just wait for Edge to kick Vicki to the curb by sleeping with the wedding planner and Vicki gets back at him by re-hiring the Undertaker or Vicki gets fired in some fashion and 'Taker will tombstone her off the show.

[Jingus 0]

I just saw about the TNA accident in which a crew member died taking their PPV set apart.

 

hmm

Why is Marvin the only guy mentioning this? It was, what, two weeks ago where they had the set collapse and it really killed someone. And WWE does the exact same thing as an angle so insanely soon afterwards? Classy.

[cabbageboy 0]

I heard a rumor of the Edge/Alicia Fox stuff, with Vicki somehow turning face in it. Which is a crazy angle, since Vicki has more heel heat than Edge and it will be really hard for her to go face at this point without Edge dumping her and cutting a mammoth heel promo.

 

UT has to end up on Raw at this point. There's nothing interesting for him on SD. I have zero interest in him vs. HHH again, might want to see him get the blowoff against Edge but that's about it. On Raw he can feud with Cena, Michaels, Jericho, and so on.

[ashamed wrestling fan 0]

I just saw about the TNA accident in which a crew member died taking their PPV set apart.

 

hmm

Why is Marvin the only guy mentioning this? It was, what, two weeks ago where they had the set collapse and it really killed someone. And WWE does the exact same thing as an angle so insanely soon afterwards? Classy.

 

Because no one watches WCW?

 

I certaintly had no idea..

[garfieldsnose 0]

I highly doubt anyone in WWE looked at this as an opportunity to poke fun at a death in TNA's family. Seriously.

[Dandy 0]

I had a few brief thoughts as the Vince angle was happening:

 

At first, I was getting a "Final Destination" vibe from it as it didn't all happen at once. It was like death was trying to catch up with him since he avoided it before. Then, I immediately began to think of the suspects that were trying to kill him. First thought I had was Ric Flair. I know it sounds retarded, but Vince was way too quick to patch it up with Flair tonight. It was like they wanted to make sure Flair is not pissed at Vince. I then thought of Vince's kids or wife, then Triple H.

[Hawk 34 0]

I had a few brief thoughts as the Vince angle was happening:

 

At first, I was getting a "Final Destination" vibe from it as it didn't all happen at once. It was like death was trying to catch up with him since he avoided it before. Then, I immediately began to think of the suspects that were trying to kill him. First thought I had was Ric Flair. I know it sounds retarded, but Vince was way too quick to patch it up with Flair tonight. It was like they wanted to make sure Flair is not pissed at Vince. I then thought of Vince's kids or wife, then Triple H.

 

John Cena was really quick to the scene to make sure that no one suspected him. I really dug that only the top three guys in the company tried to save Vince.