Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 I don't think you grasp that Manny had to be moved. There was no other option. No, I don't grasp it. Great teams with great managers are supposed to be able to overcome this bullshit. Why isn't Terry Francona, who's reputed to be one of the better players' managers out there, able to reach this guy? Is he too upset about being banned from wearing fleece? What happened? These things should be overcome. Maybe part of the problem is that the organization has been openly treating him as disposable for about five years, which is certainly not as smart as, say, putting luxury seats on the Green Monster. They tried their hardest to placate Manny for years, but everyone has a breaking point. What more can you do with the guy? He openly dogs it when he's not happy and makes crazy trade requests out of nowhere. The front office is tiring of this act year after year, Tito can't reach him anymore, his teammates openly despise him and the media's running him out of town (didn't anyone actually read that Peter Gammons article)? I don't understand the hand-wringing over a 36-year-old .900 OPS free agent to be with abysmal defense and laughable baserunning. Manny is not a baseball god. He's a malcontent making $20 million. How does one deal with that? Okay Czech, purveyor of wisdom, how does one "reach" Manny after he stands with his bat on his shoulder in the bottom of the 9th against Rivera with the bases loaded to prove a point? How do you get warm and snuggly when he takes himself out of the lineup against contending ballcubs because he's sad about making $20 million next year? Where's the love when he takes 5.7 seconds to get to first base in the midst of his team being no-hit? What do you do when he sits out the final month of the season because the team isn't in the pennant race? Enough is enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy no nose 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 I don't understand how anyone says the Pirates lose in this deal. It looks like they played it perfectly and worked the AL East teams against each other and had the Red Sox scrambling to put something together to make sure they get Bay before the Rays did. Moss is just about Major League ready and probably won't hit like Bay right away (or maybe ever) but looks like he should be solid defensively and ready pretty soon. Hanson looks like he could turn into a major league caliber closer in a couple years the way he throws heat and can get the slider working. Morris is coming off surgery, but he was a first round pick just a couple years ago and has bounced back nicely. Andy LaRoche has struggled in the majors, but he's only played 60 games and has posted an OBP over .400 in his time in AAA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Only gave up LaRoche and Morris to get Manny...yeah, that's a winning trade. We're going with Ramirez-Kemp-Ethier in the outfield. I can't stand this Manny being Manny bullshit, but we needed a bat so badly, I really don't care. Andruw Jones is now the fifth outfielder. What a gigantic waste of money, but like I said, doesn't really matter. Let Jones come into camp next year and try to get his job back. But for this year, let him rot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy no nose 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 It looks like the Red Sox gave up the better prospects along with paying Manny's salary. Bay's contract for '08 is a great deal though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naiwf 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Now that Boston has lost Manny, which one of the 3 teams in the AL East ends up missing the postseason by default? I'm assuming that the WC comes from that group. My gut says the Yankees beat out Tampa Bay, but the Rays win the WC by 2 games over Minnesota and 4 over Boston. I'd also like to thank the Brewers for getting swept because it leaves the WC within reach for the Mets in case we can't catch the Phillies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 It looks like the Red Sox gave up the better prospects along with paying Manny's salary. Bay's contract for '08 is a great deal though. You think so? Brandon Moss wasn't a top 10 prospect heading into this year and he didn't exactly light the world on fire in his stint with Boston. He's got marginal power, which makes him a liability offensively for a corner OFer, but he lacks the defensive chops for center. That smells an awful lot like a 5th outfielder to me. Maybe he'll blossom with a starting job in Pitt. Can't say that he's ever been much more than organizational fodder in Boston, however. Craig Hansen is a wreck. If the Pirates can fix him, more power to them, but I wouldn't hold my breath. He averages almost two baserunners per inning and thrives on filling up the bases to make things more difficult. The slider's devastating (when he can find the plate), but he doesn't trust his stuff at all. He was supposed to be major league ready in 2005 coming out of St. Johns, but he's only gotten progressively worse since then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 I wonder what the Dodgers do with the outfield now. Of course, it should be Ramirez-Kemp-Ethier, but I have a feeling Juan Pierre will steal a ton of starts from Ethier or Kemp and there's still that fat fuck Andruw Jones kicking around. I'd say with Joe Torre as manager Kemp and Ethier will definately end up platooning with Pierre getting most of the starts in center. It's amazing that in the span of two years Andruw Jones has gone from potential future HOF to a fifth outfielder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Th 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Giving up only Moss and Hansen isn't bad at all. I've never been a big fan of Hansen; whenever a guy gets on base, he gets rattled. He doesn't do much for me. And I have no problem with Moss going either. I would have been upset if they got rid of Reddick (who I think is going to be fantastic). Whatever, I'll still miss Manny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Christ, the Brewers got their asses handed to them all week. It must be the second half of the season or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smues Report post Posted July 31, 2008 It's amazing that in the span of two years Andruw Jones has gone from potential future HOF to a fifth outfielder. This is probably a good debate for the off-season, but let's just say Andruw is dead and done as a contributing major leaguer. Does he have any shot at the HOF with 370 homeruns and 10 years of amazing defense? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 I like the Manny trade for all involved. Honestly, there is an argument that Jason Bay alone is a better player than Ramirez right now. He's a bit behind Manny at the plate, but he's a better fielder and baserunner. The Sox are not losing much at all. The Pirates get some decent guys that needed a change of scenery. Any 24 year old who can slug .500+ in the IL has a future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 It's amazing that in the span of two years Andruw Jones has gone from potential future HOF to a fifth outfielder. This is probably a good debate for the off-season, but let's just say Andruw is dead and done as a contributing major leaguer. Does he have any shot at the HOF with 370 homeruns and 10 years of amazing defense? Yes, for the reason that his defense coincided with the greatest team pitching staff of all time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Im really surprised the Orioles didnt make any trades, but then I saw the blurb about Andy MacPhail saying that there will be deals made in August. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Even with Joe Torre as the manager, Matt Kemp's not going to the bench. He's the only outfielder to start every game since Pierre came off the DL, 17 game hitting streak, 26 steals (Torre's favorite!)...yeah, not happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 I'd like to mention one last thing about Manny to the Dodgers. Los Angeles made a hell of a deal to acquire the bat they were looking for, but watching Manny fumble around in the spacious confines of Chavez Ravine is going to be something to behold. There's not really a way to describe how bad he is defensively and having to cover another 50 feet or whatever of outfield is not going to improve things. And this: “You wish you had the DH,” Torre said. “We didn’t plan in advance how to move things around.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Adam Eaton is pitching for the Low A Blueclaws tonight. Guess who's trailing 2-0 in the 2nd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Don't worry Dodger fans, I have an idea on how to deal with Manny's defensive deficiencies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 I'm really surprised to see only one minor trade, and that one extremely minor at that. Where are the relievers and role players? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 I like the trade, but only because Manny burt my bridge with hsi ridiculous comments yesterday. Good riddance to Hansen too. Although you justr know he will be lights out in Pitt with NO pressue at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Honestly, Cheech, shut up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Don't worry Dodger fans, I have an idea on how to deal with Manny's defensive deficiencies. Does it have a restroom? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Who really cares about Manny's defense? Or his off the field stuff? Dodger fans sure don't, and they won't. They care about the bat. We need the bat. It is an exponential upgrade from whoever happens to be playing as the third outfielder on any given day. I can't believe I just defended Manny Ramirez. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Honestly, Cheech, shut up. Whoa, what's that about? I said the Dodgers got a steal in acquiring Manny for LaRoche. Don't get so bent out of shape over a joke about his defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Fine. But like 909 said, he's there for the bat. If you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you. Ripping on his defense isn't necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy no nose 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 The Pirates announced that Andy LaRoche will be their starting third baseman, Moss takes over left field (at least for now), Hanson goes straight to the bullpen, Steve Pearce who got the call up after the Yankee deal will start in right, and Karstens who they got in the Nady deal will join the rotation and start Friday's game. Talk about a team overhaul.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Who really cares about Manny's defense? Or his off the field stuff? Dodger fans sure don't, and they won't. They care about the bat. We need the bat. It is an exponential upgrade from whoever happens to be playing as the third outfielder on any given day. I can't believe I just defended Manny Ramirez. That's exactly why LA is the perfect place for Manny, nobody cares. I was thinking (dangerous I know) about next year now. I would love to see the Sox use the cash they saved from Manny's deal and Schill's departure to bring in Sheets or Sabathia then possible move Buchholz for a catcher prospect. Buchholz is going to be very good despite his recent struggles but I would take Sheets or Sabathia anyday. The only problem with that, is the Yanks and Mets have new homes and loads of money to blow. I expect the Yanks to end up with of of those pitchers and Texiera and the Mets end up with Manny so who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted August 1, 2008 You're right, it is. I don't think he'll stay past this season, but he'll love it here. He'll be treated like the savior, nobody will give him a hard time. It's a perfect match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Overall I wish things were different here with Manny, because I loved watching everything he did for the last 8 years, but as sad as I am to see him go and i will miss him greatly...I can;t defend the crap he's been pulling lately just to ensure he gets out of those option years. I REALLY want to see LA and Boston in the Series now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Just think, all this talk of big dollar moves and the Marlins are still going to win their 3rd world series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2008 Just think, all this talk of big dollar moves and the Marlins are still going to win their 3rd world series. Not until 2009, if pattern holds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
