Who needs a turn?

[The Niggardly King 0]

Like Randy Orton

[SamoaRowe 0]

Also, anyone remember the harm that Austin's heel turn in 2001 did to business? If they turn Cena now, I see a similar thing happening, only it will be worse because WWE isn't anywhere near as popular as they were in the Attitude era (not saying they aren't making a profit now or that they don't have a solid fanbase, just saying).

[DarKnight 0]

I don't buy that at all, that the WWE is doing better business now than the attitude era. In fact, in the eye of the public, being a wrestling fan now is considered sort of embarrassing, but during the attitude era, EVERYONE watched it. And I only think Austin's heel turn ended up doing bad for business was because they did nothing with it. They immediately teamed him with a guy he tried to kill on PPV (HHH), and then Austin and HHH get hurt within the year, and also the invasion storyline didn't meet people's expectations (and I don't understand why anybody thought the WCW guys should beat the WWF guys). Also about Cena and merchandise, didn't the Rock when he was heel in 98, sell a bunch of shit? I mean, kids obviously didn't give a damn if the Rock was heel or not, they loved the guy regardless.

[bob_barron 0]

2007 was the most profitable year in company history.

 

The Rock did not have the kid friendly fanbase that Cena had before he turned heel, Rock was a guy they had to turn heel.

 

Austin's heel turn was in an instant failure, since no one wanted to boo him or believe he was aligned with Vince.

[BUTT 0]

Wow, this thread is crazy now.

 

Not to be an ass, but I ordered a TNA ppv once on the sole reason of Liger being on the card. I could give a fuck about the rest of the card, Liger being on it made it a buy.

 

*shrug*

 

You really just cared about Liger only? No one else? Not even Somoa Joe or AJ Styles? And I might know what PPV your talking about. Was it Bound For Glory 2005, since that show had a Liger/Joe match on it? I couldn't think of any other TNA PPV that Liger was one, but I'm pretty sure he was on another one, since he was probably in the World X Cup.

 

Honestly? Yeah. I ordered it because of Liger being on the card and when he promptly got bitched around by Joe I left the room the PPV was showing in and played my 360.

360 wasn't out when that match happened DOGGY U LYINNNNNNNN

[Lazarus 0]

The way I see it, it doesn't matter if the fans are booing or cheering for Cena. What matters is that they are reacting to him. Whether it be cheers or boos, people sit up and notice him.

 

The television ratings prove that he is a draw. Are they as good as they were in the attitude era? No, not at all. But so what? He is currently the biggest draw on the show as is evidenced by his segments getting the highest ratings. He, compared to everyone else, is the biggest draw right now.

 

As for the merchandise sales, his numbers put everyone else to shame. So he's at the top there as well.

 

Why would they take the chance of fucking up a good thing? Right now he's doing what they need him to do, which is make money. That is all that matters to them. Why would they screw around with the formula when he's still going strong? Maybe when things change and his merch sales taper off, but there hasn't been any sign of that either.

[DarKnight 0]

2007 was the most profitable year in company history.

 

The Rock did not have the kid friendly fanbase that Cena had before he turned heel, Rock was a guy they had to turn heel.

 

Austin's heel turn was in an instant failure, since no one wanted to boo him or believe he was aligned with Vince.

 

Wow, 2007 was really the most profitable year for WWE? That really depresses me, since that year was horrid for the company, with the embarrassing McMahon limo angle, bastard son Hornswoggle, the Benoit tragedy, Cena getting injured and having Orton as champion. As for minor bad things, how about the bad luck Smackdown had last year, with Kennedy, Edge, and Undertaker getting injured while being involved with the MITB/title situation?

[mfn 0]

2007 was the most profitable year in company history.

 

The Rock did not have the kid friendly fanbase that Cena had before he turned heel, Rock was a guy they had to turn heel.

 

Austin's heel turn was in an instant failure, since no one wanted to boo him or believe he was aligned with Vince.

 

Wow, 2007 was really the most profitable year for WWE? That really depresses me, since that year was horrid for the company, with the embarrassing McMahon limo angle, bastard son Hornswoggle, the Benoit tragedy, Cena getting injured and having Orton as champion. As for minor bad things, how about the bad luck Smackdown had last year, with Kennedy, Edge, and Undertaker getting injured while being involved with the MITB/title situation?

 

Dunno about you bud, but I loved Orton as champion.

[bob_barron 0]

2007 was the most profitable year in company history.

 

The Rock did not have the kid friendly fanbase that Cena had before he turned heel, Rock was a guy they had to turn heel.

 

Austin's heel turn was in an instant failure, since no one wanted to boo him or believe he was aligned with Vince.

 

Wow, 2007 was really the most profitable year for WWE? That really depresses me, since that year was horrid for the company, with the embarrassing McMahon limo angle, bastard son Hornswoggle, the Benoit tragedy, Cena getting injured and having Orton as champion. As for minor bad things, how about the bad luck Smackdown had last year, with Kennedy, Edge, and Undertaker getting injured while being involved with the MITB/title situation?

 

It must run in the family or something.

 

Orton's title reign was great, and I really feel they took the title off of him too soon and in the wrong match

[Broward83 0]

Meh, I forget when the 360 came out..

 

..fact remains, I bought the PPV for Liger and stopped watching when they bitched him out against Joe.

 

I'm sure there were tons of people that bought whatever PPV it was that Triple H came back to face Booker T on simply because it was Trips.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Meh, I forget when the 360 came out..

 

..fact remains, I bought the PPV for Liger and stopped watching when they bitched him out against Joe.

 

I'm sure there were tons of people that bought whatever PPV it was that Triple H came back to face Booker T on simply because it was Trips.

 

Doubt it. It was a Summerslam.

[SamoaRowe 0]

So yeah, how about those guys who need turns. I'll nominate Finlay, just to get things back on track.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

So yeah, how about those guys who need turns. I'll nominate Finlay, just to get things back on track.

 

Ooh, good one. That's definitely a no-brainer.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

bob_barron, your awesome. That is all.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Wow, 2007 was really the most profitable year for WWE? That really depresses me, since that year was horrid for the company, with the embarrassing McMahon limo angle, bastard son Hornswoggle, the Benoit tragedy, Cena getting injured and having Orton as champion. As for minor bad things, how about the bad luck Smackdown had last year, with Kennedy, Edge, and Undertaker getting injured while being involved with the MITB/title situation?

 

Well, WWE isn't as popular in America as they were during the Attitude Era, but the company has grown exponentially in overseas markets (especially in the Middle East and India), places that they couldn't have done as well in during the less conservative Attitude Era .

Globally, WWE is more popular than ever before. Cena is the face of this rebranded image. Thats why the uproar over the anti-Cena sentiments.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I'd love to watch the edited version of Smackdown that India gets where somehow Khali is edited to look like the most popular babyface in the WWE. All the while he's saying "I'll kill you, motherfucker!" in his language.

[Perfection 0]

The way I see it, it doesn't matter if the fans are booing or cheering for Cena. What matters is that they are reacting to him. Whether it be cheers or boos, people sit up and notice him.

 

The television ratings prove that he is a draw. Are they as good as they were in the attitude era? No, not at all. But so what? He is currently the biggest draw on the show as is evidenced by his segments getting the highest ratings. He, compared to everyone else, is the biggest draw right now.

 

As for the merchandise sales, his numbers put everyone else to shame. So he's at the top there as well.

 

Why would they take the chance of fucking up a good thing? Right now he's doing what they need him to do, which is make money. That is all that matters to them. Why would they screw around with the formula when he's still going strong? Maybe when things change and his merch sales taper off, but there hasn't been any sign of that either.

 

But you could use that argument with anyone about keeping them from turning, along with the "he gets the reaction so that is all that matters" bit. I don't buy this argument at all. Plus, by turning cena heel...they can make another mega face with whoever he is feuding with. Look, when half the damn audience is booing your "top face", there is something wrong and he needs a change in his character. I can't stand cena...never have, but if he turned heel right now, I think I could like him or be interested in him simply because his character is so fucking stale and so lame.

[naiwf 0]

But you could use that argument with anyone about keeping them from turning, along with the "he gets the reaction so that is all that matters" bit. I don't buy this argument at all. Plus, by turning cena heel...they can make another mega face with whoever he is feuding with. Look, when half the damn audience is booing your "top face", there is something wrong and he needs a change in his character. I can't stand cena...never have, but if he turned heel right now, I think I could like him or be interested in him simply because his character is so fucking stale and so lame.

 

So you think turning Cena heel will make his opponent a "mega face", but how exactly is that going to work? Having Cena go heel will do exactly the opposite of what you think because you yourself admit that if he turned heel, you might like him for the first time. The vast majority of the people booing Cena as a face would end up cheering him as a heel and then you'd have exactly the same dynamic where half the fans love him and half the fans hate him. So what's the point in changing things up if you're going to end up with the same result?

[DarKnight 0]

It must run in the family or something.

 

Orton's title reign was great, and I really feel they took the title off of him too soon and in the wrong match

 

Well, my hate for Orton does in fact run in the family, as all of us hate Orton and think he's the worst guy to ever be pushed as a main eventer. I do agree though, that they took the title off of him in the wrong match. It seems very odd for a guy to retain at a WrestleMania to lose at Backlash, especially these days, since people just think of Backlash as just being WrestleMania rematches and nothing more. Anyway, lets get back on track with the thread topic. I too think Finlay needs to go back to being a heel, as I think he lost his momentum since he turned face and became the re-incarnation of Doink/Dink with Hornswoggle. I really miss Finlay's early 2006 heel stuff.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I love Finlay as much as the next guy, but he was practically heatless as a heel. He's getting way better crowd reactions now than he ever did as a heel.

[DarKnight 0]

I love Finlay as much as the next guy, but he was practically heatless as a heel. He's getting way better crowd reactions now than he ever did as a heel.

 

True, but it just doesn't seem like Finlay to me. I think of Finlay as being a tough Irish brawler kind of guy, not a dude coming to the ring with a midget, happy music, rubber mallets, water guns, and a Riddler hat. I might sound crazy, but would anyone else like to see Rey as a little douchebag heel? I think it could work since Rey basically seems like a heel anyway since the Eddiesploitation stuff.

[Hawk 34 0]

Rey was a horrible heel. It was a miserable failure. He is way too much of an attraction for the kids to do a pointless turn.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I had more to say on the Cena thing, but since he's finally stopped talking I'll link it to my original point.

 

People cheering or booing Cena isn't neccessarily a problem if they use it right. When the announcers were instructed to ignore it, it was bad. When they gave in and started making reference to it, albeit spun into a positive, it added another dimension to Cena's character and arguably the reactions are better on the whole now than they were.

 

However, there's no masking the fact people are chanting "You Can't Wrestle" at Khali. Loud. And often. That's the kind of reaction that needs action. And nobody will care if he can wrestle or not if he's turned into a comedy babyface, I promise.

[DarKnight 0]

Rey was a horrible heel. It was a miserable failure. He is way too much of an attraction for the kids to do a pointless turn.

 

Well, I didn't mean his WCW heel stuff in the filthy animals, since he didn't do anything heel like really. Plus he had his mask off then, so he wasn't going to get over anyway. I know there is zero shot of WWE turning him heel, but if done right, it could be interesting, as it can prove that just because a guy is a little man, doesn't mean he's a good guy when facing someone big. I think Rey came off like a heel in the Chavo feud in 06, and some of his spots seem heelish, like running from his opponent around the ring, and crawling through their legs and stuff.

[bob_barron 0]

But you could use that argument with anyone about keeping them from turning, along with the "he gets the reaction so that is all that matters" bit. I don't buy this argument at all.

 

As the face of the company, he draws the company through all facets of business. Turning your top face heel would be disasterous.

 

Plus, by turning Cena heel...they can make another mega face with whoever he is feuding with.

 

That's a nice idea in theory, but no guarantee it will work. Plus, there's no guarantee "This new mega-face" can have the appeal Cena has.

 

Look, when half the damn audience is booing your "top face", there is something wrong and he needs a change in his character.

 

Is this audience turning away from WWE and causing business to decline? No

 

The audience that cheers Cena is driving WWE business. Since they are more focused on marketing to kids, having one of your biggest kid stars turn heel would be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I can't stand Cena...never have

 

That explains it!

 

I might sound crazy, but would anyone else like to see Rey as a little douchebag heel? I think it could work since Rey basically seems like a heel anyway since the Eddiesploitation stuff.

 

No.

[Enigma 0]

They will never turn John Cena heel because of the nosedive business took in 2001 when Steve Austin turned heel.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I had more to say on the Cena thing, but since he's finally stopped talking I'll link it to my original point.

 

People cheering or booing Cena isn't neccessarily a problem if they use it right. When the announcers were instructed to ignore it, it was bad. When they gave in and started making reference to it, albeit spun into a positive, it added another dimension to Cena's character and arguably the reactions are better on the whole now than they were.

 

However, there's no masking the fact people are chanting "You Can't Wrestle" at Khali. Loud. And often. That's the kind of reaction that needs action. And nobody will care if he can wrestle or not if he's turned into a comedy babyface, I promise.

 

Excellent, excellent points. The way they developed Cena after half the crowd turned on him was perfect. Cena has progressed into a character whose actions please his fans and create positive babyface heat while at the same time pissing off the grumpy men in the audience and creating the type of heat that is percieved on television as positive heel heat. And since Cena embraces it all, it means that he can be the top face in the company and build business the way he does without having the perception on television that he's a bitch who no one likes.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I love Finlay as much as the next guy, but he was practically heatless as a heel. He's getting way better crowd reactions now than he ever did as a heel.

 

True, but it just doesn't seem like Finlay to me. I think of Finlay as being a tough Irish brawler kind of guy, not a dude coming to the ring with a midget, happy music, rubber mallets, water guns, and a Riddler hat.

 

What's good about it... it's the same Finlay. Same awesome stiff matches but he can somehow incorporate midget comedy and it doesn't take much away from his matches? It's like everything about pro wrestling got tossed into a blender and this came out... and it's successful.

[iluvwwesofun 0]

The way I see it is that Cena is boring as fuck, thus he can't draw ratings. I think all his supposed sales are fake, as well as crowd chants, fans, etc. You can't be liked if you are boring as fuck. Turning him heel doesn't automatically make him entertaining. Just make him entertaining. He can be face, heel, whatever.

 

Oh by the way, I want to commend you guys over here, for the past few days or week you have actually be discussing wrestling. Before that, for the past year, it was dead in here, because of whoever's idea it was to not create topics in the wrestling forum. Great idea to get new fans in here!

Edited August 4, 2008 by iluvwwesofun

[The Niggardly King 0]

I had more to say on the Cena thing, but since he's finally stopped talking I'll link it to my original point.

 

People cheering or booing Cena isn't neccessarily a problem if they use it right. When the announcers were instructed to ignore it, it was bad. When they gave in and started making reference to it, albeit spun into a positive, it added another dimension to Cena's character and arguably the reactions are better on the whole now than they were.

 

However, there's no masking the fact people are chanting "You Can't Wrestle" at Khali. Loud. And often. That's the kind of reaction that needs action. And nobody will care if he can wrestle or not if he's turned into a comedy babyface, I promise.

 

Khali is the one guy most fans want to see as a face attraction. Coming out and crushing Deuce and Domino got him a bunch of cheers, anytime he gets to pummel on a heel seems to get him cheers. He also gets plenty of positive reactions during his light hearted segments.