workers who get called great but you disagree

[Maztinho 0]

In 97 a belly to belly done well could still pass, the spot monkeys of today have ruined that though. What good is a belly to belly suplex. I just saw The Amazing Red get dropped on his skull 23 times and he kicked out

 

Throw in the DDT to that mix as well. It's a shame that until about 1996 the DDT was DEATH, now it's a transition move for models.

[Silence 0]

Throw in the DDT to that mix as well. It's a shame that until about 1996 the DDT was DEATH, now it's a transition move for models.

 

Now a DDT has to be done from the top rope to be a finisher.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I think I said it in another thread about DiBiase, he didn't have many standout matches in the WWF but the problem was he never really got the chance to have those matches. So many of his matches ended in non-finishes, COs or DQs. He didn't have many classic matches, but he played the role he was given brilliantly, so you have to be able to seperate 'great wrestler' from 'wrestler who has great matches', to a certain extent. I'd put Jake Roberts in the same role. Excellent worker, few really great matches.

 

Oddly enough, I think their match (DiBiase and Roberts) against each other at Wrestlemania was very good, maybe great with a better finish.

 

 

And I agree 100% on the DDT.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

A DDT can still be effective, you just have to put a twist on it. I mean, Raven was using a leaping version as an effective finisher, and Foley had his double arm DDT that was still over, in the earlier part of this decade.

 

It's basically inevitable in wrestling that all finishers will eventually be relegated to being transition or set up moves. Back in the day, a side Russian legsweep or sleeper hold was death, too. The same happened with the superplex and piledriver.

 

I do wish once a while in WWE, matches would end with something that wasn't a guy's signature finisher, or some fluke roll up. It would be nice if guys would win once in a while with a surprise finisher like the superplex or flying cross body, etc. (And yes, I know the cross body is Carlito's brother's finisher right now).

[The Thread Killer 0]

Danielson, in the ring is awesome, but he lacks a look and personality. Bret, I like but sometimes he has no facials. Flair was great, but was no technician. I guess my pick is..............

 

Misawa

Are you on crack? How can you possibly look at Misawa's career and not consider him great? He was on top of AJPW when they were putting on some of the best matches of all time, week in and week out. He had great matches, he was in what is probably the greatest feud of all time, he drew a ton of money...in what category is he NOT great?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Danielson, in the ring is awesome, but he lacks a look and personality. Bret, I like but sometimes he has no facials. Flair was great, but was no technician. I guess my pick is..............

 

Misawa

Are you on crack? How can you possibly look at Misawa's career and not consider him great? He was on top of AJPW when they were putting on some of the best matches of all time, week in and week out. He had great matches, he was in what is probably the greatest feud of all time, he drew a ton of money...in what category is he NOT great?

 

He isn't American.

[Diamonddust 0]

A DDT can still be effective, you just have to put a twist on it. I mean, Raven was using a leaping version as an effective finisher, and Foley had his double arm DDT that was still over, in the earlier part of this decade.

 

It's basically inevitable in wrestling that all finishers will eventually be relegated to being transition or set up moves. Back in the day, a side Russian legsweep or sleeper hold was death, too. The same happened with the superplex and piledriver.

 

I do wish once a while in WWE, matches would end with something that wasn't a guy's signature finisher, or some fluke roll up. It would be nice if guys would win once in a while with a surprise finisher like the superplex or flying cross body, etc. (And yes, I know the cross body is Carlito's brother's finisher right now).

 

I was always a big fan of the superplex... especially when the guy would roll over onto his opponent and into the pin as the move was completed.

 

Jake's DDT was still the best. It had the speed/impact of a snap suplex, which made it look deadlier than what it was. His short arm clothesline was also a pretty effective set-up move.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

A DDT can still be effective, you just have to put a twist on it. I mean, Raven was using a leaping version as an effective finisher, and Foley had his double arm DDT that was still over, in the earlier part of this decade.

 

It's basically inevitable in wrestling that all finishers will eventually be relegated to being transition or set up moves. Back in the day, a side Russian legsweep or sleeper hold was death, too. The same happened with the superplex and piledriver.

 

I do wish once a while in WWE, matches would end with something that wasn't a guy's signature finisher, or some fluke roll up. It would be nice if guys would win once in a while with a surprise finisher like the superplex or flying cross body, etc. (And yes, I know the cross body is Carlito's brother's finisher right now).

I did like at WrestleMania 23 when Benoit won with the Flying Headbutt...which had been pretty much regulated to just a spot.

[Maztinho 0]

Didn't Windham do the float over superplex? That was some sexy shit.

[Diamonddust 0]

Didn't Windham do the float over superplex? That was some sexy shit.

 

Yeah, Windham did the float-over superplex.

[blue2 0]

For ME. HE IS NOT GREAT. HE IS TALENTED BUT I AM NOT INTO HIM. Jeez, learn some manners and respect others opinion.

[Epic Reine 0]

The belly to belly was a shitty finisher for Douglas, I much prefered the Pittsburgh Plunge.

 

And Cody Rhodes uses the DDT as his finisher. Take that for what it's worth.

[Maztinho 0]

For ME. HE IS NOT GREAT. HE IS TALENTED BUT I AM NOT INTO HIM. Jeez, learn some manners and respect others opinion.

 

Welcome to the internet. Manners are for eating at grandma's this is where shitcock-faggotfucker is a common word.

 

Also you just said, Misawa, you didn't explain anything. People tried to figure out why you wouldn't be into him, and that's what we came up with.

 

We can deal with your opinion, but you just tossed out a name seemingly arbitrarily, back up why you don't like him, and we might bother to respect your opinion.

 

But this is TSM, so it's not likely.

 

Back to the DDT. Every so often someone will start using it as the finisher again, but I can't help but think of an interview I read with Raven during the Monday Night Wars where he said that he was going out there using the DDT as a match ender then you'd have Buff Bagwell using it as a transition spot, or one of the luchadors would hit it two times a match, and it just _kills_ the move overall.

 

My cousin who was into wrestling a little bit when we where kids and got back into it around the time of the roster split still doesn't see the DDT as a viable finisher because everyone and their dog does it. I showed him a Jake Roberts clip and then he just went. DAMN, and it clicked.

 

I'm kinda glad that the piledriver got banned, because it was headed the same way. I think I recall a match between The King and Chief Morley where Lawler hit the piledriver and it didn't end the match, I was so upset at that. Although we did get the pretty swank fist drop off the middle.

[Timmy8271 0]

Danielson, in the ring is awesome, but he lacks a look and personality. Bret, I like but sometimes he has no facials. Flair was great, but was no technician. I guess my pick is..............

 

Misawa

Are you on crack? How can you possibly look at Misawa's career and not consider him great? He was on top of AJPW when they were putting on some of the best matches of all time, week in and week out. He had great matches, he was in what is probably the greatest feud of all time, he drew a ton of money...in what category is he NOT great?

 

 

I agree with him a little bit. Misawa reminds me of HHH. He'sgood wrestler who's in there with guys like Kobashi, Kawada, Taue, Jumbo and the others but still he wasn't the best wrestler in the world. I guess it all depends on who you are a fan of. Personally I like Kobashi and Kawada better.

[The Thread Killer 0]

For ME. HE IS NOT GREAT. HE IS TALENTED BUT I AM NOT INTO HIM. Jeez, learn some manners and respect others opinion.

I don’t have to respect your opinion, dumbass. That's not the law. If you say something stupid, it doesn’t deserve any respect. You made a highly debatable statement and failed to back it up with any facts.

 

I don’t even know why I am wasting my time explaining this to you, but here you go.

 

I assume you know who Dave Meltzer is and what the Wrestling Observer is? In order to get voted into the Observer Hall of Fame, many fans run the candidates through something they call “The Gordy List.” It is a basic set of criteria used to judge the “greatness” of a particular professional wrestler.

 

You claim that in your opinion, Misawa isn’t great. Let’s run him through the Gordy List and see how he stacks up.

 

The Gordy List for Mitsuharu Misawa

 

1. Was he ever regarded as the best draw in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best draw in his country or his promotion?

 

Since he wrestled pretty much exclusively in Japan, you can’t say that he was the best draw in the entire world…although he did headline the highest attended show in all of wrestling in 2005. However he was certainly one of the biggest draws in Japan throughout his career, and in AJPW and NOAH.

 

2. Was he an international draw, national draw and/or regional draw?

 

Yes…maybe not internationally, but certainly nationally and regionally.

 

3. How many years did he have as a top draw?

 

18 years and counting. His first big Main Event was June 8, 1990 and he was in the Main Event of some decently drawing shows this year.

 

4. Was he ever regarded as the best worker in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best worker in his country or in his promotion?

 

Due to the wealth of talent in AJPW he was considered one of the top three workers in that promotion during the 90’s and at some points he was probably the best worker in NOAH, especially during Kobashi’s absence.

 

5. Was he ever the best worker in his class (sex or weight)? Was he ever one of the top workers in his class?

 

He was the top Junior Heavyweight in AJPW when he wrestled as Tiger Mask II, and he is a Five Time Triple Crown Champion…he ruled AJPW for most of the 90’s. That’s not even getting into his reigns as GHC Champion in NOAH.

 

6. How many years did he have as a top worker?

 

From 1990 until 1999 or so, he was at the top of his game.

 

7. Was he a good worker before his prime? Was he a good worker after his prime?

 

Yes. As Tiger Mask II he had some very good tag matches teamed up with Jumbo Tsuruta, and some very good matches against Kobayashi before he unmasked and started his big singles run. His last “great” singles match in his prime was probably his Triple Crown match against Kobashi in 1999. However, after his prime he still had a couple of solid singles matches, and a couple of notable tag team matches…especially the one in 2004 against KENTA & Marifuji with Ogawa as his partner. Then he had his match against Kawada in 2005…and hell, even his matches against Samoa Joe last October and KENTA in ROH at GBHIV last year weren’t awful…they just weren’t as great as he once was. I bet if somebody in North America put on matches like that now, they’d be called great…but this is Misawa and he had much better in his prime.

 

8. Did he have a large body of excellent matches?

 

He was in what is almost universally called the Greatest Match of all Time on June 3, 1994.

 

Then there are these:

 

5 Star Match (1985) vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi on March 9

5 Star Match (1990) vs. Jumbo Tsuruta on June 8

5 Star Match (1990) with Kawada and Kobashi vs. Tsuruta, Taue and Fuchi on October 19

5 Star Match (1991) with Kawada and Kobashi vs. Tsuruta, Taue and Fuchi on April 20

5 Star Match (1992) with Kobashi and Kawada vs. Tsuruta, Taue and Fuchi on May 22

5 Star Match (1993) with Kobashi and Akiyama vs. Kawada, Taue and Ogawa on July 2

5 Star Match (1993) with Kobashi vs. Taue and Kawada on December 3

5 Star Match (1994) with Kobashi and Giant Baba vs. Fuchi, Kawada and Taue on February 13

5 Star Match (1994) with Kobashi vs. Taue and Kawada on May 21

5 Star Match (1994) vs. Kawada on June 3

5 Star Match (1995) with Kobashi vs. Taue and Kawada on January 21

5 Star Match (1995) with Kobashi vs. Steve Williams and Johnny Ace on March 4

5 Star Match (1995) vs. Taue on April 15

5 Star Match (1995) with Kobashi vs. Taue and Kawada on June 9

5 Star Match (1995) with Kobashi and Asako vs. Kawada, Taue and Tamon Honda on June 30

5 Star Match (1996) with Akiyama vs. Kawada and Taue on May 23

5 Star Match (1996) with Akiyama vs. Steve Williams and Johnny Ace on June 7

5 Star Match (1996) with Akiyama vs. Kawada and Taue on December 6

5 Star Match (1997) vs. Kawada on June 6

5 Star Match (1997) with Akiyama vs. Kawada and Taue on December 5

5 Star Match (1998) vs. Kobashi on October 31

5 Star Match (1999) vs. Kobashi on June 11

5 Star Match (1999) with Ogawa vs. Kobashi and Akiyama on October 23

5 Star Match (2003) vs. Kobashi on March 1

 

9. Did he have a excellent matches against a variety of opponents?

 

Yes. Although his greatest matches were against people like Kawada and Kobashi, he could have good matches against people of skill less than his, if he was motivated. This is a guy that has made Ogawa watchable in Tag Team matches.

 

10. Did he ever anchor his promotion(s)?

 

Yes…he was the face of the Triple Crown in the 90’s, and he still is the face of NOAH along with Kobashi.

 

10. Was he effective when pushed at the top of cards?

 

Yes. He, Kobashi, Kawada and Taue set records for sell outs at the Budokan.

 

11. Was he valuable to his promotion before his prime? Was he still valuable to his promotion after his prime?

 

Yes his tag matches and undercard matches as Tiger Mask were a big part of All Japan in the late 80’s, and he is still a huge part of NOAH today despite being well past his prime.

 

12. Did he have an impact on a number of strong promotional runs?

 

He deserves a large amount of the credit (although not all) for the glory days of All Japan in the 1990’s.

 

13. Was he involved in a number of memorable rivalries, feuds or storylines?

 

Many people (like me) consider Misawa vs. Kawada to be the Greatest Feud of All Time. That is to say nothing of his Misawa and Company vs. Jumbo and Company feud which kicked off his Main Event years…and his matches with Kobashi and Taue on top of that.

 

14. Was he effective working on the mic, working storylines or working angles?

 

That kind of thing is not as important in Japan, and I don’t speak Japanese…however I am led to believe that the interviews between he and Kawada were quite interesting and added to the rivalry.

 

15. Did he play his role(s) effectively during his career?

 

Yes, he was the perfect face of All Japan Pro Wrestling in the 1990’s. He also played the upstart youngster against Jumbo’s cranky old man to perfection in the Misawa and Company vs. Jumbo and Company feud.

 

16. What titles and tournaments did he win? What was the importance of the reigns?

 

AJPW All Asia Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Kobashi (1) and Yoshinari Ogawa (1)

 

AJPW Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship (5 times)

 

AJPW Unified World Tag Team Championship (6 times) – with Toshiaki Kawada (2), Kenta

Kobashi (2), Jun Akiyama (1) and Yoshinari Ogawa (1)

 

NWA International Junior Heavyweight Championship (1 time; Final champion)

 

PWF World Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Jumbo Tsuruta

 

Champion's Carnival Winner (1995, 1998)

 

World's Strongest Tag Team League (1992) – with Toshiaki Kawada

 

World's Strongest Tag Team League (1993, 1994, 1995) – with Kenta Kobashi

 

GHC Heavyweight Championship (3 times) (First)

 

GHC Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Yoshinari Ogawa

 

17. Did he win many honors and awards?

 

Best Flying Wrestler (1985, 1986)

 

Best Wrestling Maneuver (1985) Topé con Giro

 

Feud of the Year (1990, 1991) vs. Jumbo Tsuruta

 

Match of the Year (1985) vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi on June 12, Tokyo, Japan

 

Match of the Year (1996) with Akiyama vs. Steve Williams and Johnny Ace on June 7

 

PWI ranked him # 2 of the 500 best singles wrestlers in the PWI 500 in 1997.

 

Match of the Year (1998) vs. Kenta Kobashi on October 31, Tokyo, Japan

 

Match of the Year (1999) vs. Kenta Kobashi on June 11, Tokyo, Japan

 

Match of the Year (2003) vs. Kenta Kobashi on March 1, Tokyo, Japan

 

18. Did he get mainstream exposure due to his wrestling fame? Did he get a heavily featured by the wrestling media?

 

Yes…he did and still does get a ton of press in Japan. My ex who lived in Japan knew who he was when she saw him, and she didn’t watch wrestling.

 

19. Was he a top tag team wrestler?

 

Yes…and with several different partners. Jumbo, Kawada, Kobashi, and Ogawa

 

20. Was he innovative?

 

He, Kawada and Kobashi pretty much invented the “King’s Road Style.”

 

21. Was he influential?

 

See answer above. Wrestlers like Samoa Joe and Low Ki (and many others) freely admit they studied his matches.

 

22. Did he make the people and workers around him better?

 

When he wanted to…yes. He has been accused of being lazy at times, but he can have good matches with less skilled opponents when he wanted to.

 

23. Did he do what was best for the promotion? Did he show a commitment to wrestling?

 

Yes…especially in NOAH he tried to “make” several other wrestlers by putting them over.

 

24. Is there any reason to believe that he was better or worse than he appeared?

 

Debatable, but not that I can see.

 

So there you go. THAT is why I think Misawa is great. If you don't...fine. However explain WHY you don't, or don't make stupid statements. Or at the very least, if you're going to make stupid statements and not back them up with facts, don't cry like a little girl when people challenge you on that.

[The Thread Killer 0]

I agree with him a little bit. Misawa reminds me of HHH. He'sgood wrestler who's in there with guys like Kobashi, Kawada, Taue, Jumbo and the others but still he wasn't the best wrestler in the world. I guess it all depends on who you are a fan of. Personally I like Kobashi and Kawada better.

You know what? I don't disagree that Jumbo and Kawada are both better workers than Misawa. I would say that Jumbo would go higher on the list of all time greats too. I probably enjoy Jumbo, Kawada and Kobashi's matches more than Misawa's (although Misawa is in most of their great matches) but I think that on the "all time" list, Misawa goes higher than Kawada and Kobashi, based on a lot of different criteria.

 

What I object to is not somebody stating their opinion, it's just throwing a name out there of an established great worker, and then not backing it up with any arguments or facts. I could say "John Cena Sucks" and get people to agree with me, but unless I say WHY I think he sucks...who cares?

 

[haws bah gawd 0]

The belly to belly was a shitty finisher for Douglas, I much prefered the Pittsburgh Plunge.

 

And Cody Rhodes uses the DDT as his finisher. Take that for what it's worth.

 

Well, for what it's worth, Randy Orton does a DDT with his opponent hanging from the second rope, and only ever gets a 2-count.

 

I too enjoy when a wrestler wins with a non-conventional finisher. It kind of adds an extra element of surprise to a match. Here are some examples:

- The previously-mentioned MVP/Benoit match at WM 23 with Benoit winning with his Diving Headbutt.

- Kane pinning Jericho a couple weeks ago on RAW with a sick-looking running big boot. Come to think of it, Kane should consider making that his full-time finisher. Jericho sold it so well, it looked like Kane killed him.

 

[bob_barron 0]

I know it is, but when I saw him wrestle at the Cow Palace the people there yelled it or chanted every chance they got.

 

But again, that's his gimmick.

 

That show really soured me on ROH though, so maybe that's part of my problem as well.

 

Why, did the fans all bring copies of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.

 

The Cow Palace show was a huge disaster for ROH because of that horrible convention that occured that weekend.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I know you're making a joke (and one I laughed at) bob, but at the one ROH show I've been to, there were people standing around in the "waiting to get into the seating area" area of the venue reading their WONs.

[bob_barron 0]

I've brought mine before, but that was so my friend could read it in the car

[blue2 0]

Ok. Here is my reason. Is he talented and good? Yes? But theres nothing that draws ME to him. I think Kawada and Kobashi put more effort in their matches. Now have I watched a lot of his stuff? No, and actually I dug his Tiger Mask days. Now can I argue with sucess? No. He did have great matches. But great matches do not make you great. He is capable of a great match. Now with the Observer and the Gordy system..... honestly, its just a magazine. A magazine shouldnt influence your opinion. You should take it into consideration, but to me, its just a magazine. But to be honest. Im not that into Japanese wrestling anyway, but eh. I think at one point he was very good, but I do not consider him great. I would also disagree on your stance on Misawa/Kobashi to the best fued of all time. Now maybe I shouldn't have overeacted, but this is my honest opinion on the former Tiger Mask 2.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Misawa/Kawada is the greatest feud of all time. Misawa and Kobashi just put on an awesome series of matches over the years for the Triple Crown and GHC. Mostly the TC.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Not really wanting to get in the middle of this argument/pissing match/whatever but, as someone who's had no exposure to puroresu, what makes Misawa/Kawada the greatest feud of all time? I'm not saying that you're wrong, mind you, but for the unwashed such as myself, what makes it objectively better than, say, Sammartino/Zbyszko, or Magnum TA/Blanchard, or Sting/Flair, or Hart/Michaels? Was it how many matches they had? Was there something particularly compelling in the storytelling? Was it money promos? What makes it the best?

[Timmy8271 0]

Promos in Puro? HA. Everytime Misawa talks it sounds like he has marbles in his mouth.

 

I'm guessing it's because they beat the ever living hell out of each other. And the crowds. And the fact that it took years for Kawada to finally beat Misawa for the TC.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Saying that Misawa vs. Kawada is the greatest feud of all time is a controversial statement, and I would agree that a convincing argument could be made either way. For me it boils down to a couple of things. Firstly, it was a story that was told over years, not between two PPV's. Secondly, as Timmy said...the matches were beyond intense and there were so many variations, tag matches, six mans, and singles matches. It was also a chase for Kawada, not just to beat Misawa but to beat him for the Triple Crown, be viewed as the better wrestler, and get out of Misawa's shadow. Awesome stuff.

[The Thread Killer 0]

We actually had a talk about this topic over at DVDVR a while back, the thread is HERE. It includes a list of the best matches in the feud and some people give their input.

[blue2 0]

Well I have a question for you. Why was Misawa given the ball over everyone else? In other words, why was he the top dog?

[The Thread Killer 0]

To be honest, it was a forced decision. Giant Baba (who was the owner and booker of AJPW) was forced to create a new generation of stars. During the late 80's, the two biggest native Japanese stars in All Japan were Jumbo Tsuruta and Genichiro Tenryu.

 

In 1990 some eyeglasses company decided to start their own wrestling company, "SWS." (Super World of Sports.) They lured Tenryu away from All Japan, and Tenryu took some some other AJPW guys with him...Yatsu, The Great Kabuki, etc. That left a dent in the AJPW roster and a hole in the Main Event scene.

 

(As a side note, SWS formed a short lived alliance with the WWF. They co-promoted a couple of shows in Japan, and Tenryu and Kitao even wrestled in a Royal Rumble and got a title shot at Demolition if I recall correctly. They also had a big controversy when Hogan was supposed to wrestle Tenryu in a big show, but Hogan refused to put Tenryu over, so they had to change the Main Event to Hogan & Tenryu vs. The Road Warriors. That match is on the LOD DVD that WWE put out a couple of years ago. Despite working the WWE, SWS never took off, and it went under. AJPW ended up being much better off in the long run. Tenryu ended up starting his own promotion called WAR, and you can read a whole bunch about that in Chris Jericho's book "A Lion's Tale.")

 

Baba (with Jumbo's advice I have read) picked out some of the best young talent from the roster. Tiger Mask, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue, Kikuchi, etc. They decided to do something pretty much identical to the angle that TNA is doing right now with the Main Event Mafia vs. the younger generation. Tiger Mask unmasked, revealing himself to be Misawa, and started a stable of sorts with the other younger guys. Jumbo had other veterans, most notably Masa Fuchi flock to his side. The two sides engaged in a series of AWESOME Six Man Tag Matches, and Tag Matches.

 

The key to the whole angle was when Misawa scored a massive upset on June 8, 1990 over Jumbo. That match pretty much made Misawa and set the table for the rivalry.

 

Now if your question is why Baba picked Misawa out of all the younger guys to lead the charge? I heard Terry Funk say in an interview (Funk used to be the foreign booker for AJPW although he wasn't there when this happened, he did know Jumbo very well) that Baba and Jumbo felt Misawa was the most well rounded of all the kids, the most mature, and he had the most potential to handle the pressure of the push.

 

Kawada is awesome, but I am not sure if he was ready in 1990...he improved a hell of a lot from 1990 to 1993 or so in my opinion. Same with Kobashi. Kobashi had his breakout year in 1994, if you ask me...he had some wicked matches that year, including an all time classic against Stan Hansen. The only guy who was capable and ready to have that kind of match (06/08/90) with Jumbo was probably Misawa. He had the skills, and the maturity. Kawada and Kobashi certainly caught up to him, and in some cases maybe even surpassed him, but Misawa was definitely the right man, in the right place at the right time when Tenryu took off.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

We actually had a talk about this topic over at DVDVR a while back, the thread is HERE. It includes a list of the best matches in the feud and some people give their input.

I think that something got lost in translation, but thanks for answering back, anyway.

 

What I got out of that discussion was a list of matches between Misawa and Kawada, most of which were followed by a very brief description of what happened during the match, and following discussion from a bunch of people who clearly seem to grok the fullness of that storyline/feud. But, as someone who does not grok, a lot of what was said in that discussion was like white noise to me. I simply don't grasp the context of the feud to make that list helpful in any way to me.

 

I suppose what I'm looking for is more along the lines of a "Misawa vs. Kawada for Dummies" manual. I probably don't need every minute aspect of the story spelled out in exacting detail, but perhaps something that is a trifle more explicit than a list of significant matches, coupled by an implicit understanding that you already grok why they're significant would be more helpful to guys like me.

[blue2 0]

Thank you for the analysis. But in your opinion Thread Killer, I heard Mike Awesome say in a shoot interview with Highspots, that Kobashi was the better worker, when Mike was with AJPW( I think around 97) Would you agree with that statement?