PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Isn't being a professional wrestler about working a match that sells tickets and entertains the fans? No it's about flips, suplexes, MMA influence submission holds, stiff strikes, and more flips. You also have to be no taller then 5'11. And if you take time off to heal an injury, you're just a spoiled pussy who hates the business and is only in it for the money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 There's also more to wrestling than simply knowing a ton of moves. Hogan didn't use a ton of moves, but for the most part he was selling like a mofo for the heel. Hogan could in fact sell like crazy before his hulk up comeback, and he was excellent at psychology. Regarding this JBL/Cena match....doesn't JBL almost have to win this thing to pay off this goofy HBK angle? As in wouldn't Michaels have to cheat to help him win and then maybe win the Rumble (or EC at No Way Out), then JBL tries to make him back out, but Shawn refuses. I can't think of a single compelling scenario involving Cena defending the title at WM, and the way Orton has been losing clean there's no way that can seriously be a title match. Or maybe throw Cena in there with HBK/JBL at WM since that match 1 on 1 would likely blow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 I disagree. HBK/JBL are more than capable of having a great one-on-one match. The slow build that they are doing right now will make it important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Hogan was a great mouth and marketing tool, but a terrible wrestler...but thats entirely offtopic... No, being a good wrestler is all about being able to have the crowd in the palm of your hands during your matches. Hogan accomplished that. He knew when to make his comebacks, when to sell for the heel and how to do the little things. Good wrestler. No, that would be a good entertainer. A good wrestler would be Steven Regal, Dynamite Kid, Benoit, etc. A good entertainer would be Hogan, Cena, Warrior, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 We seem to get into this stupid argument all the time. A good wrestler and a good technician is not the same thing. theone has proven that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrVenkman PhD 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 This Raw was too damn long. I stuck it out as long as I could before I had to leave for work, ended up missing my bus anyway, which means I had to pay for a cab AND not see the ending of Raw anyway. Seemed like a good "dramatic" story though. Please don't tell me this thread is 5 pages due to 2 pages of theone arguing with people... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ANKLELOCK 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Hey, theone. Your about a year behind on the "CENA CAN'T WRESTLE~!!!" shit. Dude was the best wrestler on this here planet in 2007 and has had an assload of great matches. Being a great wreslter has jack shit to do with how many variations of a fucking armbar or head drop suplex you can do. Watch the Kozlov-Trips match at SS. Tons of mat wrestling. Was that shit good? Watch Cena vs Umaga Street Fight or Cena vs Orton No Way Out. Look at Cena's mannerisms, his facials, the way he draws a crowd in and tells a story through his selling and emotion. THEN you fucking tell me Cena is a bad wrestler. P.S. Not to mention nobody in the WWE has many moves. Cena has some of the most regular moves that he uses in the entire company. Certainly more than HBK or CM Punk or any of those guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrVenkman PhD 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 theone strikes me as someone who came here thinking it was 2005 or so. I could be wrong, but it seems like the day of a WWE Folder existing just so people can crap on every single thing WWE does is dead - things such as arguing whether Cena is over or not (a stupid argument but it seems to happen every few months) occur, but things like "OMG we'll get an awful women's match on Raw tonight, amirite? Cena iz GHEY!" are long since passe. This is why the TNA folder has so little traffic - going there just to say "this is awful" every single post proves nothing, so only people with an actual interest and willingness to enjoy the product make serious contributions there. The rest of TSM that doesn't like wrestling anymore (or those who apparently found us through non-wrestling means and never liked it all) don't come here just to bash things. Again, maybe because I try to be optimistic about things, that's just my personal view on how things SHOULD work taking over what actually happens here. There's nothing wrong with saying something sucks, especially if it does, but that's where discussion and points for argument can be used. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boner Kawanger 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Agreed. I find wrestling to be so much more enjoyable now that I don't take it as seriously as I did in the early days of the board. Having 24/7 helps a little, as I'm sure Venk will agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kinetic 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Actually thought that the JBL/HBK thing at the end was a nice bit of storytelling, although I would have preferred it if Michaels had finally relented and taken the pin w/o the clothesline. A blind monkey could see where this angle is going--Michaels eventually decides that his pride is more important than money, turns on JBL, the two have a match at WM--but I like the slow build. Everything else was pretty stupid. This Legacy stable, a stable that can't seem to decide if it's a stable at all, seems to be going nowhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ANKLELOCK 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Also, not to beat a dead horsey, but Cena's expressions during the SS match with Jericho just phenomenal. When he was in the Walls of Jericho and he looked at the ropes despondently, I literally sat up in my seat and clinched my fists. And not emotive at ALL when I watch TV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfn 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 I won't deny the fact that Cena can put on one hell of an entertaining match, but I still can't stand him. Is that okay? I'm not going to sit here and say he's a terrible worker, or he can't wrestle, but I don't like him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrVenkman PhD 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 suddenly a poster here has a relevant name again! DCH? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Orton is too good for the Legacy stable. He needs to get away from them, asap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestlefreak 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Kelly Kelly/Orton was a shock. It doesn't seem WWE are gonna go anywhere with it. The ending was a bit too drawn out. Shawn should have just laid down without the CFH. I'm still interested in the angle though. Call me easily impressed, but Manu's moonsault was cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 I'm glad that Shawn opted to be knocked silly instead of just laying down for a pinfall that he would have instinctively kicked out of at the last minute. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanks for the Fish 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Pretty boring show for the most part and I was flipping between the show and Apollo 13 most of the night. The matches seemed flat as was the crowd. Who made the Legacy matches? Did Orton get to pick the match-ups? He must really like Sim Snuka giving him Haas while Manu gets Hardy and Rhodes gets Punk. I hope Manu is getting written out of Legacy because he never really fit there and yet could be pretty badass on his own. I could see him becoming WWE's Samoa Joe. I wonder if his drug of choice was weight loss supplements because he seems to have trouble keeping the weight off. I don't mind Sim in the group because I don't think the bookers care all that much about him and he'll eventually get booted out as well. Sim is 37-38yo, so he's nothing but fodder. I missed the Kelly and Orton interaction, but reading about it, it's rather disappointing given the one-episode build and punking Miz with it. Will Kelly go to Kane now? Knox, Balls and Orton; an abuser, a satanist and a douchebag - Kelly can really pick'em. Is Kane vs Orton on the horizon? Am I supposed to care? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haws bah gawd 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 I would have liked to have seen HBK tell JBL to "do it", followed with JBL hitting the ropes and running full speed ahead only to be hit with SCM. Then, HBK could lay down next to him and drape JBL's arm over himself for the win. It would be a fun step-up from the slap last week, but as HBK said, he doesn't lay down for anyone. So, that idea's right out the window. So, redundant things I learned from RAW this week: Dolph Ziggler is undefeated, despite losing his "debut" match against Batista. Matt Hardy is the Smackdown's very own ECW Champion. (Tell me again why we have 3 rosters?) Manu can do a rather decent-looking moonsault. CM Punk apparently can't hear a referee over his head and the entire crowd counting along with each other. Kelly Kelly really knows how to pick 'em. She will go from one guy who treats her like shit, to another, to another. So, she told Kane that it was the Miz to "protect" Randy Orton? Honestly, what would Kane do to Orton at this point, aside from lose to him? Apparently, Mike Knox is a bully or something to that effect. If Orton DID get to pick Legacy's matches, Rhodes and Manu must have been awful pissed that they got a main-eventer, and an upper-mid card guy, while Sim got Charlie Haas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 CM Punk apparently can't hear a referee over his head and the entire crowd counting along with each other. CM Punk: Dumber than Samoa Joe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Who made the Legacy matches? Did Orton get to pick the match-ups? He must really like Sim Snuka giving him Haas while Manu gets Hardy and Rhodes gets Punk. I hope Manu is getting written out of Legacy because he never really fit there and yet could be pretty badass on his own. I could see him becoming WWE's Samoa Joe. I wonder if his drug of choice was weight loss supplements because he seems to have trouble keeping the weight off. Manu lost his match versus Matt Hardy. I am also glad that he's out of the group. I could actually dig him over on Smackdown with Umaga. That'd be one hell of a team to add to the tag division. I also hope that when Ted Jr returns that he stays heel. I know he should turn face because of the Orton Punt, but I just think he's one of those guys who'd play a better heel than a face - especially given his gimmick, priceless, the son of the Million Dollar Man, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanks for the Fish 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Could the Legacy Boys eventually turn on Orton? I'm talking sooner than later. Eventually all "fail" his tests but he keeps them around though berates them and such and eventually they jump him - Becoming Dibiase, Rhodes, Manu and Snuka, with the latter two making up the tag team of the faction. Of course that would make The Legacy Boys faces would it not? Orton, Dibiase, Rhodes and Joe Hennig would make up the strongest second/third generation faction. If they wanted a big man/muscle for the group maybe Harry Smith could be brought it. Hell given that TJ Wilson is basically a Hart , just without the bloodlines, why not bring in Harry and TJ to be the tag team of the faction? Orton, Rhodes, Smith and Wilson. The plan to bring up The Foundation has been dropped because neither can talk, however this would solve that problem as Orton is the mouthpiece and Cody could be the secondary talker. Dibiase could feud against The Legacy or jump to SD! and Hennig could spend more time in FCW. What about having a Legacy stable on SD! as well. Ted Dibiase, Carlito, Primo, and developmentals Joe Hennig, and Brett Dibiase. Recently signed developmentals Taylor Rotunda and Dakota Darsow could eventually be candidates as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chazz 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Yeah, the revelation that Kelly's, um, "boyfriend" was Orton was confusing, but it did ring true somewhat considering that he never saved Kelly when Kane held her hostage backstage, or came to her aid when Miz and Morrison trashed her hotel room. If it was someone other than a heel, it wouldn't have made too much sense. That being said, I have no idea where this thing is leading, if anywhere at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JPopStarKami 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Good thing for the Rumble itself. I have no care to see Cena/JBL again. between the two they know a total of ~20 wrestling moves Not having a deep moveset does not make you a bad wrestler. It's knowing what to do with the moves you know that counts but cena IS a bad wreslter with a shallow moveset...he's this generations hogan Hogan was a good wrestler. He knew how to manipulate a crowd like no one else. I wouldn't compare Cena to Hogan. Well I would in saying that Vince is trying to make him this generation's Hogan...and failing. He's nowhere near as successful as Hogan. The Hogan formula worked in the 80s, this is 2008. His character is stale. He's a hell of a workhorse I'll give him that. But he oftentimes gets a mixed reaction, something Hogan never did. And I just dislike his push. As for movesets? I think it's important to at least have a diverse moveset to keep things fresh. It doesn't make the match obviously, for casual fans, but when you've been watching wrestling for 7 years you start to get jaded and notice patterns. Sooner or later, those kids are going to grow up and get tired of Cena. They need to freshen up his character...and soon. Turning heel worked wonders for Hogan, and the nWo still sold merchandise despite being heels. Should they do the same with Cena? Maybe not form a faction but I'd like to see a heel turn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Orton, Dibiase, Rhodes and Joe Hennig would make up the strongest second/third generation faction. If they wanted a big man/muscle for the group maybe Harry Smith could be brought it. Hell given that TJ Wilson is basically a Hart , just without the bloodlines, why not bring in Harry and TJ to be the tag team of the faction? Orton, Rhodes, Smith and Wilson. The plan to bring up The Foundation has been dropped because neither can talk, however this would solve that problem as Orton is the mouthpiece and Cody could be the secondary talker. Dibiase could feud against The Legacy or jump to SD! and Hennig could spend more time in FCW. TJ/Harry are being groomed for a new hart foundation gimmick w/ natty...and the E decided they needed more time in FCW as neither have any mic skills what so ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Again, maybe because I try to be optimistic about things, that's just my personal view on how things SHOULD work taking over what actually happens here. There's nothing wrong with saying something sucks, especially if it does, but that's where discussion and points for argument can be used. The divas match was AWFUL. Cena is AWFUL, and the ending to the main event was AWFUL. other than that, it was a good show...as I said :rollseyes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Could the Legacy Boys eventually turn on Orton? I'm talking sooner than later. Eventually all "fail" his tests but he keeps them around though berates them and such and eventually they jump him - Becoming Dibiase, Rhodes, Manu and Snuka, with the latter two making up the tag team of the faction. Of course that would make The Legacy Boys faces would it not? Orton, Dibiase, Rhodes and Joe Hennig would make up the strongest second/third generation faction. If they wanted a big man/muscle for the group maybe Harry Smith could be brought it. Hell given that TJ Wilson is basically a Hart , just without the bloodlines, why not bring in Harry and TJ to be the tag team of the faction? Orton, Rhodes, Smith and Wilson. The plan to bring up The Foundation has been dropped because neither can talk, however this would solve that problem as Orton is the mouthpiece and Cody could be the secondary talker. Dibiase could feud against The Legacy or jump to SD! and Hennig could spend more time in FCW. What about having a Legacy stable on SD! as well. Ted Dibiase, Carlito, Primo, and developmentals Joe Hennig, and Brett Dibiase. Recently signed developmentals Taylor Rotunda and Dakota Darsow could eventually be candidates as well. Nevermind Brett DiBiase - where the hell is Mike?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanks for the Fish 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 TJ/Harry are being groomed for a new hart foundation gimmick w/ natty...and the E decided they needed more time in FCW as neither have any mic skills what so ever I mentioned as much. Also both are deemed more than ready in the ring, which is why I think having them join with Orton and Rhodes would be a smart decision. "The Foundation" will fail because neither are "Harts" and Pink and Black is a brutal color scheme to try and pull off in 2008. I think they'd be much better off brought up as a new generation Bulldogs - Harry the powerhouse like his father and TJ the flyer/technician like Dynamite Kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Ermm I don't think HBK is going to face JBL at 'Mania. I think they blow this off at NWO after HBK costs him the title at the Rumble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarKnight 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 What was with all of this Kelly/Orton stuff? I didn't remember hearing anything like that mentioned on the show last night. I guess I need to pay attention more often. It seems like every day, everyone talks about Cena. There is either people who hate him, or people that defend him. It seems like there's hardly anyone who's in the middle. I can't really decide my opinion of Cena, as every week I switch from being apathetic towards him, to then hating him. Last night I definetely hated him during that horrible attempt at comedy in that backstage promo. Thats the exact proof of why people hate Cena. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 There was a short backstage moment with Kelly and Orton before the main event, and it was referenced maybe once by commentators. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
