The latest twist in the Schiavo case.......

[cbacon 0]

Yes, Afganistan is doing MUUUUCH better, if you are looking into buying mass quantities of Opium and Heroin.

That was there anyway. At least women aren't treated worse than cattle.

-=Mike

Afghan Women Still in Chains Under Karzai

 

One Hundred Twelve Women Assaulted in Iraq, Afghanistan

 

Rule of the Rapists:Britain and the US said War on Afghanistan would Liberate Women. We are Still Waiting

 

Afghanistan: Women Still Under Threat

 

But hey, they can vote!

 

And Iraq.....

 

UN Rights Expert Charges US Using Food Access as Military Tactic

 

UN Monitor: War on Iraq Has Doubled Malnutrition Among Iraqi Children

 

And don't be quick to dismiss the sources because they're from Common Dreams, they're articles and findings derived from the AP, Guardian, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, etc.

[Ripper 0]

Jingus is so tough. And dopey on this:

 

Yeah, that got to me too. I kinda ignored this issue for a long time becuase I mistakenly thought that the woman was comatose and completely unresponsive. Only today did I find out the truth.

 

Don't believe the hype. There was nothing left there, no matter what some quack "Nobel prize nominated doctor" tells you. I'm not going to discuss it anymore but read the rest of this thread or any of the actual evidence on this case and you'll see that your tough talk about "finding out the truth" is really, really silly.

But the undenyable truth of the whole matter is that she didn't brain damage to death. The reason that her life ceased was because she didn't recieve food. No way to dance around it, she starved to death. lack of food and hydration caused her to no longer breath. That is killing someone. Like it or not, that what happend.

 

 

And dumbass internet folk are finding it cool to call her a bitch and a cunt because she took up so much oh so valuable TV time when they could have...you know....turned the goddamn channel.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Damn, me, Ripper and Jesse Jackson are on the same side of this one. Who'da thunk it?...

[SuperJerk 0]

Terry Shiavo didn't kill his wife. The heart attack did.

[Guest Deadbolt]

There's a couple things worth taking a look at here;

 

First, all the doctors involved in the woman's case say that she had no chance for recovery, and that all of her 'responsive movements' were reflex.

 

And there were doctors that disputed this.

The Supreme court needs a majority decision to rule on something, and the majority of the supreme court (as it sits currently) was appointed to the bench by George Herbert Walker Bush, (Jeb and George's Dad.)

Umm, IIRC, Bush Sr. appointed ONE justice (Thomas). Really, this is just BASIC research.

As we saw at the close of the 2000 election, the supreme court is firmly and squarely in the pocket of the Republicans in general and the Bush family in particular.

Or they recognized what a joke the FL Supreme Court's decisions were in Gore v Bush...

So, while Bush may have stated that he wanted her alive, in the end, he could have saved her if he so desired.

Yes, it was all a clever ruse by Pres. Bush. That's it.

The power, you know, as the president and all, was firmly in his hands. You see, even if the Supreme Court actually did oppose him (they wouldn't)

Because they've NEVER opposed him thus far. No sir.

he and his governing body have the ability to make what we call "laws", which the Supreme Court has to obey/enforce.

Hmmmmmm.

Umm, no, the Supreme Court really doesn't.

What happened here is what we call "Deflective Politics." It is an amazing example of the Republican control over the media.

Republican...control...of...the...media.

 

I am SO fighting the urge to hit "LOL!"

This was one woman, a woman who according to doctors is a complete vegetable and who according to her husband wanted to be allowed to die

And according to her family, didn't want to die. And the conservatives view was that her alleged desire to die should be proved to the same level as a death sentence conviction.

Since this Terri Shivoh thing started up, how much have we heard about Iraq or the Privatization of Social Security?

Iraq, since it's doing better, won't be reported on any longer (just as Afghanistan hasn't been). And Social Security? Just checking, you DO read the newspaper, right?

These two issues are going to cost a lot more lives (let's ignore money here) than one woman in a coma.

Yup. If Social Security isn't massively overhauled, it'll go under.

Ding dong, the veg is dead.

What, exactly, did she ever do to you to warrant this?

-=Mike

Sorry if this is irrelevant.

 

Wow. Since when was simple human error cause to insult someone so many times? Seriously, it's not as if you're proving that you've got a pair by being a dick online, I highly doubt you'd have said any of this shit to my face, and whether or not you say you would is irrelevent. You want to feel as if you're smarter than me, that's fine, it's really no skin off of my back, but please don't be an asshole to me here.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Terry Shiavo didn't kill his wife. The heart attack did.

 

Was there something to this story that I am not aware of?...

[Ripper 0]

Terry Shiavo didn't kill his wife. The heart attack did.

NO, starvation killed her.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

God killed her.

[Ripper 0]

God killed her.

By requiring that humans need food to survive.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes, Afganistan is doing MUUUUCH better, if you are looking into buying mass quantities of Opium and Heroin.

That was there anyway. At least women aren't treated worse than cattle.

-=Mike

Afghan Women Still in Chains Under Karzai

 

One Hundred Twelve Women Assaulted in Iraq, Afghanistan

 

Rule of the Rapists:Britain and the US said War on Afghanistan would Liberate Women. We are Still Waiting

 

Afghanistan: Women Still Under Threat

 

But hey, they can vote!

 

And Iraq.....

 

UN Rights Expert Charges US Using Food Access as Military Tactic

 

UN Monitor: War on Iraq Has Doubled Malnutrition Among Iraqi Children

 

And don't be quick to dismiss the sources because they're from Common Dreams, they're articles and findings derived from the AP, Guardian, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, etc.

Wow, ALL from Common Dreams. No possible bias in reporting there.

 

Come back with a real source, 'K?

 

And, yeah, I'm discounting every single story because they're all bullshit.

Wow. Since when was simple human error cause to insult someone so many times? Seriously, it's not as if you're proving that you've got a pair by being a dick online, I highly doubt you'd have said any of this shit to my face, and whether or not you say you would is irrelevent. You want to feel as if you're smarter than me, that's fine, it's really no skin off of my back, but please don't be an asshole to me here.

1) I would've said every syllable to your face.

2) Don't cry when you're called on saying something fucking idiotic. It's your fault for typing it.

 

"Most of the justices were appointed by George H.W Bush"? If you're so blatantly CLUELESS as to the world, don't bitch when somebody points it out. It takes all of 5 secinds to do a little bit of research to learn that Bush Sr., in fact, did not do so.

 

Take your crackpot conspiracy theories and peddle them somewhere people are moronic enough to buy them.

 

And don't pull this "You wouldn't say that to my face" because, rest assured, I'd do so. And I'll call you a bigger fucking moron for pulling that shit here.

 

If you're too idiotic to make a point, stick to HD.

-=Mike

[bob_barron 0]

cause to insult someone so many times? Seriously, it's not as if you're proving that you've got a pair by being a dick online, I highly doubt you'd have said any of this shit to my face, and whether or not you say you would is irrelevent. You want to feel as if you're smarter than me, that's fine, it's really no skin off of my back, but please don't be an asshole to me here.

It's not Mike's fault that your post was completely idiotic and easily refutable and he didn't even insult you that much. Why don't you refute his points instead of whining? I expected this though since you are the guy who kept claiming that ratings rose on SD! with Hogan as champ.

 

 

Anyway- wait Jesse Jackson wanted to keep her alive? I don't like agreeing with him.

[Ripper 0]

I think it was a plot by the people for her to die to have Jesse Jackson go down there and say he was on the side of her living. I bet Bush was behind all of this.

 

CONSPIRACY~!

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

It takes all of 5 secinds...

Haha -- stoopid.

 

Actually, I'm wondering if Deadbolt is pulling an April Fools' joke...

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

This was originally published in the St. Petersburg Times.

 

Living will is the best revenge

By ROBERT FRIEDMAN, Perspective Editor

Published March 27, 2005

 

Like many of you, I have been compelled by recent events to prepare a more detailed advance directive dealing with end-of-life issues. Here's what mine says:

 

* In the event I lapse into a persistent vegetative state, I want medical authorities to resort to extraordinary means to prolong my hellish semiexistence. Fifteen years wouldn't be long enough for me.

 

* I want my wife and my parents to compound their misery by engaging in a bitter and protracted feud that depletes their emotions and their bank accounts.

 

* I want my wife to ruin the rest of her life by maintaining an interminable vigil at my bedside. I'd be really jealous if she waited less than a decade to start dating again or otherwise rebuilding a semblance of a normal life.

 

* I want my case to be turned into a circus by losers and crackpots from around the country who hope to bring meaning to their empty lives by investing the same transient emotion in me that they once reserved for Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy and that little girl who got stuck in a well.

 

* I want those crackpots to spread vicious lies about my wife.

 

* I want to be placed in a hospice where protesters can gather to bring further grief and disruption to the lives of dozens of dying patients and families whose stories are sadder than my own.

 

* I want the people who attach themselves to my case because of their deep devotion to the sanctity of life to make death threats against any judges, elected officials or health care professionals who disagree with them.

 

* I want the medical geniuses and philosopher kings who populate the Florida Legislature to ignore me for more than a decade and then turn my case into a forum for weeks of politically calculated bloviation.

 

* I want total strangers - oily politicians, maudlin news anchors, ersatz friars and all other hangers-on - to start calling me "Bobby," as if they had known me since childhood.

 

* I'm not insisting on this as part of my directive, but it would be nice if Congress passed a "Bobby's Law" that applied only to me and ignored the medical needs of tens of millions of other Americans without adequate health coverage.

 

* Even if the "Bobby's Law" idea doesn't work out, I want Congress - especially all those self-described conservatives who claim to believe in "less government and more freedom" - to trample on the decisions of doctors, judges and other experts who actually know something about my case. And I want members of Congress to launch into an extended debate that gives them another excuse to avoid pesky issues such as national security and the economy.

 

* In particular, I want House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to use my case as an opportunity to divert the country's attention from the mounting political and legal troubles stemming from his slimy misbehavior.

 

* And I want Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to make a mockery of his Harvard medical degree by misrepresenting the details of my case in ways that might give a boost to his 2008 presidential campaign.

 

* I want Frist and the rest of the world to judge my medical condition on the basis of a snippet of dated and demeaning videotape that should have remained private.

 

* Because I think I would retain my sense of humor even in a persistent vegetative state, I'd want President Bush - the same guy who publicly mocked Karla Faye Tucker when signing off on her death warrant as governor of Texas - to claim he was intervening in my case because it is always best "to err on the side of life."

 

* I want the state Department of Children and Families to step in at the last moment to take responsibility for my well-being, because nothing bad could ever happen to anyone under DCF's care.

 

* And because Gov. Jeb Bush is the smartest and most righteous human being on the face of the Earth, I want any and all of the aforementioned directives to be disregarded if the governor happens to disagree with them. If he says he knows what's best for me, I won't be in any position to argue.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Riveting stuff there -- almost as compelling as those columnists, when talking about some pols wanting to make English America's official language, writes their article all in slang.

 

I know when I get on life support/feeding tube/etc. the big fight is going to be who gets to pull the plug...

[SuperJerk 0]

[Art Sandusky 0]

Actually, had this happened as recently as 50-60 years go, she would have died from the heart failure and resultant brain damage keeping her from functioning. Modern technology made sustaining her life possible, but people keep forgetting that nature would have done it if there hadn't been a feeding tube in the first place. I guess medicine is one of the few realms in which the nutjobs putting her up on crosses as part of their protesting don't mind the advent of new technology and science.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Actually, had this happened as recently as 50-60 years go, she would have died from the heart failure and resultant brain damage keeping her from functioning. Modern technology made sustaining her life possible, but people keep forgetting that nature would have done it if there hadn't been a feeding tube in the first place. I guess medicine is one of the few realms in which the nutjobs putting her up on crosses as part of their protesting don't mind the advent of new technology and science.

Yeah, well you can't expect logic and common sense from fuckheads who just can't help but stick their nose in other peoples business.

[Guest Deadbolt]

Why don't you refute his points instead of whining?

 

Well, isn't that keen. Let it not be said that you were not warned.

 

In the year 1998, Jeb Bush was the governer of Florida, which had a Republican Legislature. That legislature passed a reform law to allow for more intensive voter screening. This law was passed two years prior to the Election in which George W. Bush ran for the position of President of the United States. George W. Bush, like his father, was a Republican.

 

Jeb Bush, at the Election, for the first time in American History, hired a private company (Choicepoint/DBT) to handle the identification and prevention of inelligable voting in the State of Florida.

 

Choicepoint/DBT was Chaired by Frank Borman, a prominant Republican, and had four members of the GOP on it's board of directors.

 

A list, provided from the office of Gov. Bush in Texas identified eight thousand felons in Florida that were not elligble to vote. It's unlikely that that this list was very accurate, but it was never used.

 

Cathrine Harris, current Congresswoman and then Secretary of State, Supervisor of Elections and head of the Bush Campaign in Florda (that's not a conflict of interests, mind you) was disatisfied with the list, and ordered it be expanded to number just over fifty eight thousand people. Only one county in Florida bothered going through the expensive process of checking the names in the list, which was only supposed to include felons, using the National Database. They found that ninety five percent of the names on that list were not felons, and were barred from voting for no particular reason. Twenty two thousand of the illegally disenfranchized would-be voters were African American, or more commonly known as "Black". Black voters, especially in the last thirty years, have voted over ninety percent in favor of the Democratic Party. So, just for the sake of being generous, let's say that eighty five percent of those votes would have gone to the Democrats, with the five percent going to the Green party and ten percent to the Republicans. Under that math, that's eighteen thousand seven hundred votes that the Democratic party would have gotten. The official count in Florida shows that Gore lost by five hundred and thirty seven votes. Hm.

 

The list of fifty eight thousand voters was expanded by including people with the same last name and birthday of known (by known, of course, we mean supposed, as the original list was flawed anyways) felons.

 

On top of that, after the polls had closed, an additional twenty thousand democratic votes were disallowed for a variety of reasons, the most publicly acknowledged of which were the improperly punched "chads", which were the bits of paper people were supposed to punch out next to the names of their choices in the election. This is to say, more specifically, that the choices made by the voters, while still clearly indicated, were not allowed because part of the paper hadn't torn.

 

Fox News, owned by prominant Republican (he donates millions a year) Rupert Murdock announced that Bush had taken Florida long before the polls had closen. According to the on air talent, they were told to announce it fairly out of the blue, and no sources were quoted at any point. Gore, seeing this, conceded the election, as the whole Electio was dependant on Florida. I should point out that this was announced before the polls were closed, and that all other news stations exit polling showed it even, or if anything, they gave the democrats a slight edge. When it became clear that Fox news had simply lied, Gore revoked his concession, and was blasted on Fox News and CNN (equally as republican) for it.

 

The Supreme Court eventually ruled that the recount, which hadn't finished or published it's results, wouldn't continue. The Supreme Court, seven of which were appointed by Republican Administrations (Souter, Thomas, Scalia, Stevens, Rehnquist, O'Conner and Kennedy) mysteriously supported the Republican bid to stop the recount, even though it was a legal recount.

 

Also, and at this point I feel it's necessary to point out that you're a complete dipshit, Souter and Thomas were both appointed in 1990 and 1991. That would be during the Tenure of George H. W. Bush. I'm not sure if you can count, but that adds up to two, not one.

Yes, let me double check that...

Two?

Yeah.

 

I'll add it again, and I'll show my work.

1(Souter)

+

1(Thomas)

______

2

 

Well holy shit.

 

 

Now, onto Deflective Politics;

 

In the United States, there are a number of twenty four hour news Channels. MSNBC, CNN and FOXNews. FoxNews is owned by Rupert Murdock, a Republican, and is bias beyond description. CNN is slightly less bias, but still favors the Republican party heavily, going so far as to have their reporters talk over Al Sharpton at the DNC, which most people felt was the most electrifying and impassioned speech of the evening.

 

Deflective politics have been employed by both parties, most notebly by the democrats with the colombine shooting, which was used by Bill Clinton to take attention away from the fact that, earlier that day, he'd dropped a record number of bombs on Kosovo.

 

Shame on Bill Clinton, using a national tragedy to take attention away from an international tragedy. Clinton called a press conference to talk about Columbine, which was carried on every network, making it the most talked about issue of the day.

 

Columbine was a national tragedy, and it was a symptom of a greater problem plaguing the nations youth. It may not have been more deserving than the bombing in kosovo, but it was newsworthy.

 

Terri Schiavo is one woman, a woman that most doctors seem to agree was in a vegetative coma. Ten years ago, due to an eating disorder, Terri's heart stopped, which deprived her brain of oxygen for roughly ten minutes. First Aid courses, which are updated regularly with new medical information, indicate that the brain starts to suffer irreperable damage after five minutes. A brain deprived of Oxygen for ten minutes is almost invariably declared 'dead', meaning that there is no cognative function. This is to say that the baser functions, heartbeat, breathing, blinking, goosebumps, shivering, salivating, etc etc are still around. So are instinctive movements, such as flinching and twitching. Reflex action, meaning involuntary movements in response to stimuli, are also present. Nerve impulses are carried by the nerve endings, but the part of the brain that recieves and translates them into "feelings" is cognative, and no longer functions. This means that Terri could not think or feel, be it physical sensations or emotional ones. The entire hospital staff where she was examined and held maintains that Terri was brain dead. Terri's parents, who are not doctors and as parents, should be considered at least a little bias, said that she was somewhat responsive. A republican doctor/senator(or congressman, I don't remember), using a video tapes, said that Terri seemed responsive. I don't know about the states, but in Canada, it's illegal to diagnose someone over the phone, internet, or video tapes. Further more, the doctor in question was unaware of the fact that AIDS could not be transmitted via tears or sweat, which was revealed in a television interview he'd done a few years prior.

 

This is common knowledge in Canada, but again, you're in the states, so we should assume that only doctors know that.

 

Doesn't give him an excuse.

 

President Bush cut short his vacation, which was national news (Especially on Fox and CNN) and held two press conferences talking about Terri. She was also the most discussed item on CNN and FOX over this past week.

 

Social Security Reform, which is currently the biggest issue facing America, took a back seat.

 

The social security reform, for those who aren't aware, is the Government's plan to, rather than pay it themselves, have people invest their own money in various companies and then live off of the return once they retire.

 

Of course, investments don't always deliver returns, but the government has promised that they'll cover any loses.

 

Wait, no they haven't.

 

But they've promised that everyone will get a pay raise in order to invest, since many people can't afford to spare the money currently, right?

 

No, no they have not.

 

But it will work, because George Bush knows all about investing.

 

(Let's ignore the fact that he bankrupted two companies prior to entering politics. We should also ignore the fact that the United States is spending billions more a year than it's currently taking in. The plan to solve this is, of course, to print more money. Sure, this devalues American currency internationally, but your market isn't dependant on other countries... Oh wait, it is)

 

 

 

Finally, on a slightly more personal note;

 

Regardless of the fact that I may have been mistaken on a few points in my initial post, you still have no business being such an asshole about. The fact remains that I have every right to hold whatever opinions I do hold, and that there's absolutely no reason to attack me for having a different opinion than you. What's happened is a clear "fight or flight" instinct, which happens when a member of the animal kingdom (which includes people) feel challenged on some level. In this case, I have challenged your opinions by holding different ones. Since you are in no danger of physical harm online, you've responded with the "fight" instinct, choosing to attack me to support your position. Fairly common behavior in the un-evolved mind, meaning that you're still growing into your capacity. I'm not calling you stupid, I'm saying that you don't yet know how to deal with your newfound mental resources. Plainly; You're smarter than you are mature.

 

And regardless of what you claim, I know you wouldn't dream of being such an arrogant little shit to my face, no one would. It's utter bullshit when you say different, and if it isn't, you're parents ought to be arrested for raising such a little bastard. Grow up, learn some manners, and stop assuming that you're the hottest shit walking this planet, because no matter where you go, no matter where you are, there will always be someone bigger, badder and in this case, much, much smarter than you are. This is the last I'll be participating in this conversation, please do not attempt to contact me or illicit a response, I've said all I have to say and wasted more time than I would liked to already. In closing, you'll find life's a lot easier and more enjoyable when you don't go out of your way to be a sniveling, confrontational little douchebag.

 

Fuck off.

[SuperJerk 0]

Umm, IIRC, Bush Sr. appointed ONE justice (Thomas). Really, this is just BASIC research.

 

Also, and at this point I feel it's necessary to point out that you're a complete dipshit, Souter and Thomas were both appointed in 1990 and 1991. That would be during the Tenure of George H. W. Bush. I'm not sure if you can count, but that adds up to two, not one.

Yes, let me double check that...

Two?

Yeah.

 

I'll add it again, and I'll show my work.

1(Souter)

+

1(Thomas)

______

2

 

Well holy shit.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Well, that certainly looks like a whole lot of words.

[Boon 0]

 

Must your post include so much arrogance and sarcasm? As valid as your points are, people don't respect you when you cover valid political argument with so much pompous, useless clutter.

 

For example-

 

Twenty two thousand of the illegally disenfranchized would-be voters were African American, or more commonly known as "Black".

 

Frankly, you're no better at keeping your emotions in check then MikeSC, so you can drop this "I won't bother wasting my time" act b/c frankly, you come off as a complete jackass, as well.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Christ, I can't wait to see how long Mike's post is going to be when he takes every sentence quote by quote...

[SuperJerk 0]

Frankly, you're no better at keeping your emotions in check then MikeSC, so you can drop this "I won't bother wasting my time" act b/c frankly, you come off as a complete jackass, as well.

Are you guys auditioning to be the new Pope or something? This holier than thou crap's becoming unbearable.

 

Someone scores a point against Mike, and everyone's silent.

 

Someone scores a point against Mike and caps it off with a rude comment, and everyone says "good point, but you shouldn't have made the rude comment."

 

You people are unbeleivable.

[Boon 0]

Are you guys auditioning to be the new Pope or something?  This holier than thou crap's becoming unbearable.

That was the entire point of my post...

 

Someone scores a point against Mike, and everyone's silent.

 

Everyone's silent b/c they haven't read that very lengthy post.

 

And I really hope that you're not suggesting that "we people" are defending Mike, b/c that guy gets flamed more then anyone on this board. Guy has like two people who agree with him on any given topic.

 

Besides, I'm the only one who has made any comment about it. And you have to admit, it was a pretty ridiculous way to end an otherwise thorough argument. Tons of us add nice little tags to piss off each other, but I don't need to read two paragraphs of Deadbolt waving his dick around back at Mike.

 

ANYWAY

As approved by a Florida judge March 7, Michael Schiavo will have his wife's body cremated and interred in a family plot in Pennsylvania, where they were born and were married in November 1984.

 

Pasco-Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer denied the request by Schiavo's parents to have her buried in Florida without being cremated. They are Roman Catholic and argued that cremation is inconsistent with their religion. The Vatican lifted its ban on cremation in 1963.

 

At least now they can argue for a few more days about what to do with her body.

[SuperJerk 0]

And I really hope that you're not suggesting that "we people" are defending Mike, b/c that guy gets flamed more then anyone on this board.  Guy has like two people who agree with him on any given topic.

 

Besides, I'm the only one who has made any comment about it.  And you have to admit, it was a pretty ridiculous way to end an otherwise thorough argument.  Tons of us add nice little tags to piss off each other, but I don't need to read two paragraphs of Deadbolt waving his dick around back at Mike.

I'm just observing a pattern.

 

When Mike acts like an idiot, no one notices. When someone's an idiot back to Mike, people pile on him.

 

Not the first time this has happened.

[Guest Deadbolt]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152209,00.html

 

autopsy is done. results in a few weeks.

[SuperJerk 0]

Terry Shiavo didn't kill his wife.  The heart attack did.

NO, starvation killed her.

From the Fox News article:

 

The consensus among doctors who have examined her has been that the damage was so extensive that the woman known for her quick smile and intriguing laugh had died long ago.

 

See?

 

Security remained high following death threats made by people upset that her feeding tube was removed.

 

"I'm going to kill you because life is sacred!" Idiots.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Did we REALLY need a rehash of the Florida election crap AND the Iraq/Afghanistan wars in this thread? It's turning into a "Brief History of Lame Current Events Arguments".

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Someone scores a point against Mike, and everyone's silent.

Perhaps the silence is because nobody cares?

 

And I didn't read Mr. Bolt's long-ass post...